On the Trinity:

A Freeman

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Your insistance on using Numbers supports what I believe, that the Gospel logically doesn't follow the Torah.
How is it "logical" that one part of Scriptures isn't in perfect agreement with the rest of Scriptures? And who decides which verses are "approved" for citing? You?

Forget the Torah.
Why should we forget The Torah, which in English means "The Law"? Isn't that what criminals do?

Did Christ tell us to forget The Law? No, He didn't, did He (see Matt. 5:17-20)?

And don't give me a day's worth of homework.
Are you really going to now complain about someone doing your homework for you, when you were the one asking for proof?

Give me one verse, independent from the Torah, where Christ says He's not God.
You were just given over 180 verses, quoted from the Gospel, that leave no doubt that Jesus is NOT God, by His own admission, including Christ telling us no less than 7 times that He has a God [3 through the mouth of Jesus (Matt. 27:46, John 20:17) and 4 more times in heaven (Rev. 3:12)].

Jesus is also man and the man Jesus has a God.
Thank-you for admitting that Jesus has a God (and thus cannot be God, by definition).

It should be noted that the last 4 times that Christ referred to Father as His God, He was in heaven, sitting at Father's Right Hand (where and when Christ gave His Revelation to John). Or didn't you notice that?

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the Temple of MY God (4), and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY God (5), and the name of the city of MY God (6), [which is] New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY God (7)*: and [I will write upon him] my NEW name.
 
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The risen Jesus, who was once the man Jesus, using "my God" doesn't pose any problems to me.

Can you play this game without so much fuss? Show us a verse during Jesus' ministry where Jesus Christ said he is not God? You have more than 180? Give us your best one.
 

A Freeman

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The risen Jesus, who was once the man Jesus, using "my God" doesn't pose any problems to me.
Do you understand what the term "cognitive dissonance" means please (James 1:8)?

Can you play this game without so much fuss? Show us a verse during Jesus' ministry where Jesus Christ said he is not God? You have more than 180? Give us your best one.
Since this "game" is already 180+ to zero (0), why don't you provide the verse where Jesus claims to be God or part of some sort of pagan trinity?

In fact, perhaps you could share with us where in the Bible it specifically uses any of the following terms, if you please:-

- "trinity"

- "triune god"

- "three-in-one"

- "one-in-three"

- "God the Son"

- "God the Holy Spirit"

- that belief in some sort of pagan trinity is essential for anyone's salvation.

Have we not COMMANDED to have no other gods except for Father, THE ONE TRUE GOD, Whose name is the "I AM": the Self-Existing ONE?

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The "I AM" our God [is] ONE "I AM":

And, haven't we been told the key to eternal Life is to get to know Both THE ONE TRUE GOD, our heavenly Father and Creator, AND Christ the Saviour, Whom the ONE True God SENT (John 5:30 I can of mine own self do NOTHING: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the Will of the Father which hath SENT me.)?

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, AND Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

ONE means ONE! (ONE God - AND ONE Mediator between God and men - 1 Tim. 2:5).
 

Phithx

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The risen Jesus, who was once the man Jesus, using "my God" doesn't pose any problems to me.

Can you play this game without so much fuss? Show us a verse during Jesus' ministry where Jesus Christ said he is not God? You have more than 180? Give us your best one.
If I may, it might be useful to very accurately first define the word God, because everyone seems to comprehend it slightly differently?

The Way home or face The Fire renders it as a title Guardian Of Divinity 1:1 Thousands of Earth years ago, far away, in THIS galaxy, on the Morning Star (Rev. 2:28), the Lord Guardian Of Divinity, King (Malachi 1:14), Ruler and Guardian of the Universe (Sura 23:86), put down a revolution led by Lucifer (Iblis)(Rev. 12:7-9).

It seems clear to me that the Supreme Being would be The Source and Guardian of His Divinity.

And Jesus, having just earlier in this scripture called the Supreme Being His "Father": in John said 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are gods?

So it seems (true) Israel were also supposed to be guardians of (His Father's) Divinity?

From that it should be clear that Christ is definitely the best Guardian of His Father's Divinity on this planet, also because he confirmed in John 10:30 that "I and [my] Father are at one".

So it seems natural that people would confuse the titles between the two, but He never said that He was His Father the Supreme Being, and all those very many verses confirm that He is not.

That's the way I see it; for now anyway?
 
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Do you understand what the term "cognitive dissonance" means please (James 1:8)?



Since this "game" is already 180+ to zero (0), why don't you provide the verse where Jesus claims to be God or part of some sort of pagan trinity?

In fact, perhaps you could share with us where in the Bible it specifically uses any of the following terms, if you please:-

- "trinity"

- "triune god"

- "three-in-one"

- "one-in-three"

- "God the Son"

- "God the Holy Spirit"

- that belief in some sort of pagan trinity is essential for anyone's salvation.

Have we not COMMANDED to have no other gods except for Father, THE ONE TRUE GOD, Whose name is the "I AM": the Self-Existing ONE?

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The "I AM" our God [is] ONE "I AM":

And, haven't we been told the key to eternal Life is to get to know Both THE ONE TRUE GOD, our heavenly Father and Creator, AND Christ the Saviour, Whom the ONE True God SENT (John 5:30 I can of mine own self do NOTHING: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the Will of the Father which hath SENT me.)?

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, AND Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

ONE means ONE! (ONE God - AND ONE Mediator between God and men - 1 Tim. 2:5).
Why are you being so defensive? Just give us your best verse where Christ explicitly or implicitly says He is not God.
 

Lisa

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Why are you being so defensive? Just give us your best verse where Christ explicitly or implicitly says He is not God.
At least Art...he isn’t telling you that you’re a woman and have no right to talk to him like that...:rolleyes:
 
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fotw

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Matthew
19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the Kingdom of heaven.
19:15 And he laid [his] hands on them, and departed thence.
19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have Eternal Life?
19:17 And he said unto him,
Why callest thou ME good? [there is] none good but One, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the Commandments.

Mark
10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit Eternal Life?
10:18 And Jesus said unto him,
Why callest thou ME good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.
10:19 Thou knowest the COMMANDments, Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Luke
18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit Eternal Life?
18:19 And Jesus said unto him,
Why callest thou ME good? none [is] good, save one, [that is], God.
18:20 Thou knowest the COMMANDments, Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
 
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Good. Thanks for playing ball, fotw.

I asked for one example to argue one at a time, and because I was positive that this would've been the first verse given.

This verse is not proof of Jesus's denial being God. It could simply be an inquiry about the man's awareness.

If you receive a gift anonymously and later you come to me and say "Thanks for the gift", to which I reply "Why are you thanking me? Thanks should be reserved for the one who gave you the gift", I'm not necessarily denying it was me; I could just as much be trying to find out how you know it was me.
 

A Freeman

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This verse is not proof of Jesus's denial being God. It could simply be an inquiry about the man's awareness.
If this statement was made in a vacuum and by itself, then perhaps it's understandable how someone could mistakenly think that. But it wasn't. And when it's coupled with hundreds of other verses where Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, made it crystal clear that He is NOT God, it's simply intellectually dishonest to make that assumption.

That assumption also requires someone to redefine what the number one means.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou ME good? [there is] NONE good but ONE, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the Commandments.

One means one. It doesn't mean three, or three-in-one, or two, or anything other than one.

There is no scriptural support for the pagan trinity that the RCC invented and then voted on to be their god 1600 or so years ago. NONE.

People in "high places" (Eph. 6:12) redefine words to deceive and confuse others, particularly in churches, governments and courtrooms. It's called "legalese". God is NOT the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33).

Christian Legalese
 
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John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

In this verse Christ made clear that His Father is greater than Him. So, that cannot be disputed.

There can only be ONE Supreme Being, by definition, just like there can only be ONE Most High God by definition, as there can only be ONE "ONLY True God", by the definition of the words.

In John 14:28, there are Two mentioned and One of Them is identified to be greater than the other and there can only be ONE Supreme Being. So, which One in this verse is the Supreme Being / Most High / Only True God?

It can only be The One Who is called "greater".
 
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If this statement was made in a vacuum and by itself, then perhaps it's understandable how someone could mistakenly think that. But it wasn't. And when it's coupled with hundreds of other verses where Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, made it crystal clear that He is NOT God, it's simply intellectually dishonest to make that assumption.

That assumption also requires someone to redefine what the number one means.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou ME good? [there is] NONE good but ONE, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the Commandments.

One means one. It doesn't mean three, or three-in-one, or two, or anything other than one.

There is no scriptural support for the pagan trinity that the RCC invented and then voted on to be their god 1600 or so years ago. NONE.
Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.
Creed of Constantinople:
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
Nowhere did the RCC interpret the Trinity as anything other than one God.


That said, I asked for one verse that supported your case and the first verse given doesn't. Don't worry. I didn't believe Jesus was God either until I started doing this exercise myself.


John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

In this verse Christ made clear that His Father is greater than Him. So, that cannot be disputed.

There can only be ONE Supreme Being, by definition, just like there can only be ONE Most High God by definition, as there can only be ONE "ONLY True God", by the definition of the words.

In John 14:28, there are Two mentioned and One of Them is identified to be greater than the other and there can only be ONE Supreme Being. So, which One in this verse is the Supreme Being / Most High / Only True God?

It can only be The One Who is called "greater".
Let's assume for argument's sake that your name is Daddy.

Daddy is more ("greater") than bible-student, yet bible-student is Daddy. QED.
 

TokiEl

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John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

In this verse Christ made clear that His Father is greater than Him. So, that cannot be disputed.

There can only be ONE Supreme Being, by definition, just like there can only be ONE Most High God by definition, as there can only be ONE "ONLY True God", by the definition of the words.

In John 14:28, there are Two mentioned and One of Them is identified to be greater than the other and there can only be ONE Supreme Being. So, which One in this verse is the Supreme Being / Most High / Only True God?

It can only be The One Who is called "greater".
But what is your point ?

It is Jesus Christ who will judge you... so what are you getting at ?

He has been given all authority in heaven and on earth... so what exactly is your point punk ?
 

A Freeman

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Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.

Creed of Constantinople:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

Nowhere did the RCC interpret the Trinity as anything other than one God.


That said, I asked for one verse that supported your case and the first verse given doesn't. Don't worry. I didn't believe Jesus was God either until I started doing this exercise myself.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed:

The Athanasian Creed, also known as Pseudo-Athanasian Creed or Quicunque Vult (also Quicumque Vult), is a Christian statement of belief focused on Trinitarian doctrine and Christology. The Latin name of the creed, Quicunque vult, is taken from the opening words, "Whosoever wishes". The creed has been used by Christian churches since the sixth century. It is the first creed in which the equality of the three persons of the Trinity is explicitly stated.


The Shield of the Trinity, a visual
representation of the doctrine of the
Trinity, derived from the Athanasian
Creed.


An excerpt from the Athanasian Creed (same Wikipedia source):

"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty..."

The mind-control tactics in plain English: three, but not three. One, but not one, etc. Absolute nonsense.

What do the Scriptures actually say about the "uncreated" Son?

That the Son was in truth a CREATED Being, MADE the firstborn of every creature.

Romans 8:28-29
8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [His] purpose.
8:29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the FIRSTBORN among MANY brethren.

Colossians 1:12-18
1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the Kingdom of His dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of every creature:
1:16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for him:
1:17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
1:18 And he is the head of the body, the community: who is THE BEGINNING, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell*;

*Which is why Father (God) made/created His Dear Son, known here on Earth as Christ, FIRST; i.e. Christ was the BEGINNING of the creation of God.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, THE BEGINNING of the creation OF God;

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the House of Israel know ASSUREDLY, that God hath MADE that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who by God is MADE unto us Wisdom, and Righteousness, and Sanctification, and Redemption:

2 Corinthians 5:20-21
5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] through us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
5:21 For He hath MADE him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God through him.

And what do the Scriptures actually say about the "unlimited" Son's LIMITATIONS?

Christ, by His own admission, is NOT omniscient:

Matthew 24:36 But of That Day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father ONLY.

Christ, by His own admission, is NOT omnipotent:

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do NOTHING: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the Will of the Father which hath sent me.

Perhaps it's time to exercise a little humility and common-sense, and admit you're wrong, wouldn't you agree?
 
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TokiEl

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So, the point is follow Jesus. Listen and obey.
Right so who cares that the Father is greater than Jesus Christ... when it is Jesus Christ who has been given all authority in heaven and on earth... and who will judge all.
 
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Right so who cares that the Father is greater than Jesus Christ... when it is Jesus Christ who has been given all authority in heaven and on earth... and who will judge all.
You should care, because, if you do not, then you are not caring about what Jesus cared about, and you are thereby not obeying or honoring Jesus.

Jesus obviously cares, otherwise He wouldn't have said it. Therefore so should you.

But, because people were not listening to Jesus, and they were not caring about or doing what He said they should, and chose to start following the blasphemous doctrines of evil cloth wearing men, instead of Jesus, it was repeated again.

"Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of The Word (John 1:1-5) from Him: he will be called Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God. He shall speak to the people in childhood (Luke 2:40-47) and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous." She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a plan, He only saith to it, 'Be,' and it is! And God will teach him The Book (Old Covenant) and Wisdom, The Law (The Torah) and The Gospel,
King of kings' Bible, Sura 3:44-48.
 
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From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed:

The Athanasian Creed, also known as Pseudo-Athanasian Creed or Quicunque Vult (also Quicumque Vult), is a Christian statement of belief focused on Trinitarian doctrine and Christology. The Latin name of the creed, Quicunque vult, is taken from the opening words, "Whosoever wishes". The creed has been used by Christian churches since the sixth century. It is the first creed in which the equality of the three persons of the Trinity is explicitly stated.


The Shield of the Trinity, a visual
representation of the doctrine of the
Trinity, derived from the Athanasian
Creed.


An excerpt from the Athanasian Creed (same Wikipedia source):

"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty..."

The mind-control tactics in plain English: three, but not three. One, but not one, etc. Absolute nonsense.

What do the Scriptures actually say about the "uncreated" Son?

That the Son was in truth a CREATED Being, MADE the firstborn of every creature.

Romans 8:28-29
8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [His] purpose.
8:29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the FIRSTBORN among MANY brethren.

Colossians 1:12-18
1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the Kingdom of His dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of every creature:
1:16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for him:
1:17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
1:18 And he is the head of the body, the community: who is THE BEGINNING,the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell*;

*Which is why Father (God) made/created His Dear Son, known here on Earth as Christ, FIRST; i.e. Christ was the BEGINNINGof the creation of God.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, THE BEGINNING of the creation OF God;

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the House of Israel know ASSUREDLY, that God hath MADEthat same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who by God is MADE unto us Wisdom, and Righteousness, and Sanctification, and Redemption:

2 Corinthians 5:20-21
5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] through us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
5:21 For He hath MADE him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God through him.

And what do the Scriptures actually say about the "unlimited" Son's LIMITATIONS?

Christ, by His own admission, is NOT omniscient:

Matthew 24:36 But of That Day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father ONLY.

Christ, by His own admission, is NOT omnipotent:

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do NOTHING: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the Will of the Father which hath sent me.

Perhaps it's time to exercise a little humility and common-sense, and admit you're wrong, wouldn't you agree?
I think the biggest source of confusion of the Athanasian Creed is the co-equalness of the three persons, but you have to take into account Jesus' hypostatic union and realize the distinction between Jesus and Christ. Jesus is to creation what Christ is to the heavenly fullness. They are one, Jesus being the Son of God manifested in creation and Christ, the Primordial Man (= God in His fullness) shining through.

Christ is the Word. Through Him all things were made. The Word was in the beginning. The Word was God. The Word is uncreated. The Word became flesh (--> Jesus' body was created).

This hypostatic union is what the Athanasian Creed emphasizes: Jesus is divine, the Christ, from the essence of the Father / God, and Jesus is human, ie. the man Jesus, from the essence of his mother.

The man Jesus (ie. his humanity) is not omniscient or unlimited, but Christ (his divinity) is.




John 5:30 I can of mine own self do NOTHING: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the Will of the Father which hath sent me.

Let's not forget the context in which you post this verse. You post this verse to prove that Jesus is not God, while it proves the exact opposite. Can you do anything of your own self? Can anyone you know do anything of his own self? Does everyone do anything because it's the Will of the Father? The answer is so obvious that it baffles me how so many people miss this.

Do we get to know anything from Daddy if @bible_student doesn't post? Do we get to know your Word and your Spirit if @A Freeman doesn't post?

For the sake of argument, let's call you Morgan. If Morgan doesn't type his thoughts into his keypad, @A Freeman doesn't do anything. If @A Freeman does something, we know it is acting upon the Will of Morgan, therefore @A Freeman is Morgan. QED.
 

TokiEl

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You should care, because, if you do not, then you are not caring about what Jesus cared about, and you are thereby not obeying or honoring Jesus.

Jesus obviously cares, otherwise He wouldn't have said it. Therefore so should you.

But, because people were not listening to Jesus, and they were not caring about or doing what He said they should, and chose to start following the blasphemous doctrines of evil cloth wearing men, instead of Jesus, it was repeated again.
When Jesus Christ is Lord and God with all authority in heaven and on earth and the Judge of all... then that is what we ought to care about. Who cares that the Father is even greater than Him when your life and eternity is entirely in the hands of Jesus Christ ?


Matthew 17 4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If You wish, I will put up three shelters: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5While Peter was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him!




"Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of The Word (John 1:1-5) from Him: he will be called Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God. He shall speak to the people in childhood (Luke 2:40-47) and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous." She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a plan, He only saith to it, 'Be,' and it is! And God will teach him The Book (Old Covenant) and Wisdom, The Law (The Torah) and The Gospel,
Sura 3:44-48.
And why do you quote the Devil ?

Is it because you are a devil ?
 
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Let's assume for argument's sake that your name is Daddy.

Daddy is more ("greater") than bible-student, yet bible-student is Daddy. QED.
How is that analogy the same? It is not.

The Athenasian Creed says that Christ is not the Father.

So, the analogy you gave cannot be logically used for trying to prove the Athenasian Creed.
 
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When Jesus Christ is Lord and God with all authority in heaven and on earth and the Judge of all... then that is what we ought to care about. Who cares that the Father is even greater than Him when your life and eternity is entirely in the hands of Jesus Christ ?


Matthew 17 4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If You wish, I will put up three shelters: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5While Peter was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him!
So listen to Him and learn to also care about what He cares about and says.

And why do you quote the Devil ?

Is it because you are a devil ?
You need to learn to stop thinking evil.
 
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