Jesus didn't claim to be God

B

bible_student

Star
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,040
Lisa said:
So your answer is it has nothing to do with Jesus..
Click to expand...
It is very difficult to have a conversation with someone if they try to put words in your mouth.

Heaven is Christ's home. Just like it is God His Father's home and also the angels home.

Did you know that the dragon (Lucifer) and the fallen angels all also lived in heaven?

Revelation
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out to the earth, and his angels (you - Luke 9:55) were cast out with him (Matthew 25:41).

In other words, you can't use someone living or having lived in heaven, as an argument to try and say that they are God.

I'm just showing you what it says. You can either believe Christ, or the church.

The two, are not compatible.
 
B

bible_student

Star
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,040
Lisa said:
The trinity is Christian, catholicism is a false religion because they like to add a 4th to it with their worship of Mary.
Click to expand...
The trinity IS catholicsm.

It is the central dogma of the Catholic church, that all catholics MUST believe in.

It is what makes a person catholic.

That is why most of the protestants traditions are really still catholic, because they kept the central catholic dogma of the trinity.

Protestant Christianity is still Catholic (protestantism = catholic "lite") when they uphold the trinity, because the trinity doctrine is a wholly catholic concept and doctrine.

Revelation
17:4 And the woman was arrayed in PURPLE (bishops) and SCARLET (cardinals) colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY (2 Thess. 2:7), BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS (her daughters) AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT of her, MY people, that ye take not part in her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues (punishment).
 
B

bible_student

Star
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,040
Original Koran
4:171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of God aught but the Truth. Jesus the (human) son of Mary was (no more than) an Apostle of God; and His Word (John 1:14), which He bestowed on Mary's (human) son; was a spirit-Being (Christ) proceeding from Him (making the human+Being called Jesus+Christ): so believe God and His Apostles. Say NOT "Trinity": DESIST: it will be better for you: for "I AM" is one God. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a human son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs.
4:172. Christ commandeth YE to serve and worship God, so do the angels, those nearest (to God): those who scorn His worship and are arrogant,- He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).

[Original Koran Extract]
 
Lisa

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
bible_student said:
It is very difficult to have a conversation with someone if they try to put words in your mouth.

Heaven is Christ's home. Just like it is God His Father's home and also the angels home.

Did you know that the dragon (Lucifer) and the fallen angels all also lived in heaven?

Revelation
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out to the earth, and his angels (you - Luke 9:55) were cast out with him (Matthew 25:41).

In other words, you can't use someone living or having lived in heaven, as an argument to try and say that they are God.

I'm just showing you what it says. You can either believe Christ, or the church.

The two, are not compatible.
Click to expand...
Jesus isn’t Lucifer and He isn’t an angel. He is the only begotten Son is God. Which means He is God. How do I know?
Jesus said this..
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

I believe both..the church that says Jesus is God the Son and the scriptures that say it too. The two can be compatible but of course not all churches preach the word.
 
Last edited:
Lisa

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
bible_student said:
The trinity IS catholicsm.

It is the central dogma of the Catholic church, that all catholics MUST believe in.

It is what makes a person catholic.

That is why most of the protestants traditions are really still catholic, because they kept the central catholic dogma of the trinity.

Protestant Christianity is still Catholic (protestantism = catholic "lite") when they uphold the trinity, because the trinity doctrine is a wholly catholic concept and doctrine.

Revelation
17:4 And the woman was arrayed in PURPLE (bishops) and SCARLET (cardinals) colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY (2 Thess. 2:7), BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS (her daughters) AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT of her, MY people, that ye take not part in her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues (punishment).
Click to expand...
Some Protestants like the Lutherans, Methodists and Presbyterian’s certainly are catholic light. Others like the Baptist’s took more steps away from catholicism and came out of her.

What makes a person a catholic is that they adhere to the traditions of their church rather than adhering to what scripture says. Most Catholics only follow what they’ve been taught is true and don’t know that their beliefs don’t actually line up with scripture.

What do you make of this scripture, by Jesus..
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭28:19‬ ‭
Isn’t that a scripture talking about the trinity? He tells us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit aka the trinity.
 
Last edited:
B

bible_student

Star
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,040
Lisa said:
Most Catholics only follow what they’ve been taught is true and don’t know that their beliefs don’t actually line up with scripture.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
Lisa said:
What do you make of this scripture, by Jesus..
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭28:19‬ ‭
Isn’t that a scripture talking about the trinity? He tells us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit aka the trinity.
Click to expand...
I don't see it teaching the trinity doctrine.
My belief is that Christ is the Holy Spirit.
 
Lisa

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
bible_student said:
I don't see it teaching the trinity doctrine.
My belief is that Christ is the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
Really? We are supposed to be baptized in the trinity and you don’t see where that teaches trinity doctrine? Huh....

I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever.
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭14:16‬ ‭
Looks like Jesus is asking the Father for a Helper that is His own person.

And again...
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭14:26‬ ‭
It looks like there are three separate entities that have different roles but they are all God..aka the trinity.
 
B

bible_student

Star
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,040
Lisa said:
Really? We are supposed to be baptized in the trinity and you don’t see where that teaches trinity doctrine? Huh....

I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever.
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭14:16‬ ‭
Looks like Jesus is asking the Father for a Helper that is His own person.

And again...
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭14:26‬ ‭
It looks like there are three separate entities that have different roles but they are all God..aka the trinity.
Click to expand...
I think it looks like Christ is explaining to the disciples that He would come to them in a different form, in order to prepare them so they would be able to understand:

John
14:15 If ye love me, KEEP my COMMANDments.
14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
14:17 [Even] the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
 
Last edited:
Red Sky at Morning

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,961
John 10

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

If I had said that God was my father, and then said that we were one, what (without reaching for complex, mystical “logic”) might I be claiming.
 
Todd

Todd

Star
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
2,525
Lisa said:
Jesus isn’t Lucifer and He isn’t an angel. He is the only begotten Son is God. Which means He is God. How do I know?
Jesus said this..
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

I believe both..the church that says Jesus is God the Son and the scriptures that say it too. The two can be compatible but of course not all churches preach the word.
Click to expand...
"Son of God" and "God the son" are not the same thing. When a person is born again they too become a "son of God"...it doesn't make as us all God.
 
Todd

Todd

Star
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
2,525
Red Sky at Morning said:
John 10

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

If I had said that God was my father, and then said that we were one, what (without reaching for complex, mystical “logic”) might I be claiming.
Click to expand...
And then Jesus goes on to pray that we would all be one with him. So if Jesus saying that he and the Father are one means he is God then Jesus prayed that we would all become God.
 
B

bible_student

Star
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,040
John
17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to Thee. Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom Thou hast given me, that they may be one, as We [are].

17:21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent me.
17:22 And the glory which Thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are One:
17:23 I in them, and Thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that Thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as Thou hast loved me.
 
Red Sky at Morning

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,961
Todd said:
And then Jesus goes on to pray that we would all be one with him. So if Jesus saying that he and the Father are one means he is God then Jesus prayed that we would all become God.
Click to expand...
I believe there will come a day when God will make us perfectly able to reflect his Glory. That is not the same as being God ourselves. It’s subtle, but it’s an important distinction. To get it wrong in either direction leads to all kinds of heresies...

1 John 3:2 King James Version (KJV)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 
Red Sky at Morning

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,961
Lisa said:
True we are not all begotten sons of God, only Jesus is.
Click to expand...
I think you hit it clearly here - Jesus is the only “begotten” Son.

Romans 8

God Works In All Things
(Ephesians 1:3-14)

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 
Lisa

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
bible_student said:
John
17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to Thee. Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom Thou hast given me, that they may be one, as We [are].

17:21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent me.
17:22 And the glory which Thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are One:
17:23 I in them, and Thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that Thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as Thou hast loved me.
Click to expand...
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.
‭‭ACTS‬ ‭5:30-32‬ ‭
 
Y

Yahda

Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
711
The never ending argument again. The New Testament claims that jesus is god, and that he is not God. What’s the point of arguing over it when it makes both claims ?

Some even consider it to be be two christ in the NT. One that’s a prophet of God sent to the lost sheep of Israel, and one referred to as the anti christ. Who claims to be god, who died on the cross, anti law, sent to save the whole world.
 
Lisa

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
Yahda said:
The never ending argument again. The New Testament claims that jesus is god, and that he is not God. What’s the point of arguing over it when it makes both claims ?

Some even consider it to be be two christ in the NT. One that’s a prophet of God sent to the lost sheep of Israel, and one referred to as the anti christ. Who claims to be god, who died on the cross, anti law, sent to save the whole world.
Click to expand...
The New Testament only claims Jesus is God. The antichrist isn’t a Christ hence the word anti...
 
Y

Yahda

Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
711
Lisa said:
The New Testament only claims Jesus is God. The antichrist isn’t a Christ hence the word anti...
Click to expand...

The correct term anyway would be anti-God, which is the overall essence of the NT.

So you have one prophet (jesus) for God, and the other (Jesus/anti God) claiming to be god who contradict everything spoken by God.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top