Did God......

Vytas

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Sorry guys but Catholic’s do not worship our lady and from the examples that some of you have given of so called catholics it just makes me believe that the church has been invaded by people whose aim is to discredit it
Do Catholics believe. that Mary has supernatural power and hear their prayers ? Do catholics believe in so called miracles done by her lourdes and fatima are probably most famous but there are many more.
 

Todd

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History has shown that about 2000 years have passed since Christ... so that is a fact and not invented by Darby.
LOL! So what year will you finally realize your 2000 year gap theory is wrong? 2033 +/- whatever error you believe there is in the gregorian calendar? How do you know it's not a 2500 year gap, or a 3000 year gap?
 

TokiEl

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LOL! So what year will you finally realize your 2000 year gap theory is wrong? 2033 +/- whatever error you believe there is in the gregorian calendar? How do you know it's not a 2500 year gap, or a 3000 year gap?
That's a good question Todd.

But there are both literary and astronomical time markers in the Bible.

And Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy is a specific timeline or countdown.
 

phipps

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Sorry guys but Catholic’s do not worship our lady and from the examples that some of you have given of so called catholics it just makes me believe that the church has been invaded by people whose aim is to discredit it
I've posted direct quotes from the Catholic Church. Here are a few more.

"The sinner that ventures directly to Christ may come with dread and apprehension of his wrath; but let him only employ the mediation of the Virgin with her Son and she has only to show that Son the breasts that gave him suck and his wrath will immediately be appeased." Catholic Layman, July 1856.

Pope John Paul II believed that Mary intercedes for the faithful who honour her during mass:

"As they listen to the word proclaimed in the Sunday assembly, the faithful look to the Virgin Mary...From Sunday to Sunday, the pilgrim people follow in the footsteps of Mary, and her maternal intercession gives special power and fervour to the prayer which rises from the Church to the Most Holy Trinity." John Paul II, Dies Domini (July 5, 1998).


So not discrediting is it?
 

Todd

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That's a good question Todd.

But there are both literary and astronomical time markers in the Bible.

And Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy is a specific timeline or countdown.
Yes it was specific timeline and countdown to the appearnace of the Messiah which was all completely filled in the first century. There is nothing in the actual 70 week prophecy that points to a 2000 year gap. That gap was invented to support the agenda I detailed in my previous post.
 

Dalit

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Tread lightly, @phipps , regarding "not caring what non-Christian Jews think". You're headed for trouble with that. Respect God's original chosen people. Romans 11.
 

Todd

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Tread lightly, @phipps , regarding "not caring what non-Christian Jews think". You're headed for trouble with that. Respect God's original chosen people. Romans 11.
What? How is Romans 11 a plea to respect what Jews who have not accepted Christ think?

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”[c]

9 And David says:

“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever

If anything it's just the opposite!
 

Dalit

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What? How is Romans 11 a plea to respect what Jews who have not accepted Christ think?

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”[c]

9 And David says:

“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever

If anything it's just the opposite!
The point I was trying to make is that if God could cut off the original branches to graft in the wild olive tree branches, then what makes the Gentiles get so proud? Take it in total context. I love it when Jews and Christians can come together and mutually respect one another. Peace.

And they'll see Him and mourn for Him (Zechariah 12). I bet they'll accept Him then. It's not too late for them. It can't be.

Let me get back to this later when I have more time. From my Hebraic Bible study I realized we, as under the influence of Greek thinking or Hellenization, really do see things through a glass darkly (1 Corinthians 13:12).
 
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Renegade

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Apparently you don't either as Daniels 70 weeks prophecy perfectly aligns with the first coming of Christ and it was completely fullfilled in the first century. Their is no biblical basis for the "2000 year gap" theory. That theory's origin began with the concept of the pre-trib rapture first documented by the spanish Jesuit priest De Lacunza under the alias of a Jewish Rabbi named Juan Jushafat Ben-Ezra in the book "The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty". The book was written as a response to the early protestant reformation's accusation that the RCC was "the whore of Babylon" in Revelation chapter 17. It was an attempt to change the common view of Revelation from a historic view to a future propehetic view to deflect the criticism away form the RCC.

The Enlgish cult leader Edward Irving translated the work in English and a member of his cult named Rober Notron combined it with a vision that a young girl named Margaret Macdonald, had about a secret rapture. Margaret Macdonald was involved in the Occult and supposedly had endured occultic "levitation" experiences. John Darby heard Irving preach and began studying the 70 weeks prophecy in light of Irving's teaching. That is when Darby invented the 2000 year gap theory to make the 70 weeks prophecy appear to support the future pre-tribulation concept.

Darby didn't gain many followers in England, but during a trip to America he meet up with C.I Scofield who then incorporated the theory into his study Bible. The Scofield Reference Bible became one of them most popular English Bibles of the 19th Century and that is how the Pre-trib rapture theory became so prevelant.

For 1600 years before that there was no evidence of the acceptance of the 7 year tribulation and pre-tribulation rapture of the Church teachings. The origns alone of the theory should cause us to reject it. Good fruit does not come from a bad tree.
175AD
And the angel Gabriel, when explaining his vision, states with regard to this person: "And towards the end of their kingdom a king of a most fierce countenance shall arise, one understanding [dark] questions, and exceedingly powerful, full of wonders; and he shall corrupt, direct, influence (faciet), and put strong men down, the holy people likewise; and his yoke shall be directed as a wreath [round their neck]; deceit shall be in his hand, and he shall be lifted up in his heart: he shall also ruin many by deceit, and lead many to perdition, bruising them in his hand like eggs." And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: "And in the midst of the week," he says, "the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete." Now three years and six months constitute the half-week.
(
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 5, Chp. 25)
 

phipps

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Tread lightly, @phipps , regarding "not caring what non-Christian Jews think". You're headed for trouble with that. Respect God's original chosen people. Romans 11.
I was talking about their beliefs which I disagree with, not them as a people. I don't think I disrespected them at all.
 
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Todd

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The point I was trying to make is that if God could cut off the original branches to graft in the wild olive tree branches, then what makes the Gentiles get so proud? Take it in total context. I love it when Jews and Christians can come together and mutually respect one another. Peace.

And they'll see Him and mourn for Him (Zechariah 12). I bet they'll accept Him then. It's not too late for them. It can't be.

Let me get back to this later when I have more time. From my Hebraic Bible study I realized we, as under the influence of Greek thinking or Hellenization, really do see things through a glass darkly (1 Corinthians 13:12).
I agree with everything you said here and also think we can learn a lot from studying the bible from a Hebrew perspective. I just wasn't sure what point you were making about Romans 11 in respect to accepting what Jews who reject Jesus the Messiah, have to say. Seems to me Romans was indication that they were not seeing clearly. I agree the Greek thinking and Hellenization has caused much error in modern day Christianity also.
 

phipps

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Okay. I could've interpreted your tone incorrectly since this is just like email in a way.
You did interpret it wrong. I respect Jewish people, both Christians and non Christians. However its important we all understand what the Bible says about them as a people because that will bring us closer to God.
 

Alanantic

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When goodness grows weak,
When evil increases,
I make myself a body.
In every age I come back
To deliver the holy,
To destroy the sin of the sinner,
To establish righteousness.

Krishna, Bhagavad Gita
 

Serveto

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If you knew God personally by rebirth, Then you would know the Truth. Don'e peddle your own self willed beliefs. It is called "TRESPASSING" (adding self will in the sphere of divine authority)
Thank you for half of your post, the half which sounds genuinely concerned for my spiritual well-being and is sharing the gospel. As for the other half, the half which sounds like a badly disguised reprimand, please save those, the reprimands, for your pets. I am not peddling any beliefs, because I have comparatively few of them. Rather, I am comparing and contrasting, at the moment, three religions, sects and cults which claim to worship Jehovah: Judaism, Christianity and Jehovah's Witnesses. There seems to be extreme differences, at times, between and among them.

I understand that you are from what I consider the in some ways great state of Tennessee. If you are anywhere near Gatlinburg, please do give it, and yourself, my best regards. I have great memories of that town.
 

Todd

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175AD
And the angel Gabriel, when explaining his vision, states with regard to this person: "And towards the end of their kingdom a king of a most fierce countenance shall arise, one understanding [dark] questions, and exceedingly powerful, full of wonders; and he shall corrupt, direct, influence (faciet), and put strong men down, the holy people likewise; and his yoke shall be directed as a wreath [round their neck]; deceit shall be in his hand, and he shall be lifted up in his heart: he shall also ruin many by deceit, and lead many to perdition, bruising them in his hand like eggs." And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: "And in the midst of the week," he says, "the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete." Now three years and six months constitute the half-week.
(
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 5, Chp. 25)
I stand corrected. Thanks Renegade. I still contend the origin of the modern interpretation of pre-tribulation rapture and the 2000 year gap theory is not from God. I have stated before that I don't prescribe to any one theory of Biblical prophecy as prophecy is never fully understood until after it is fulfilled. I still don't neccessariy agree with Iraneuas, ethier. I still lean towards the 70 weeks prophecy already being fulfilled. I could be wrong though.
 
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Thank you for half of your post, the half which sounds genuinely concerned for my spiritual well-being and is sharing the gospel. As for the other half, the half which sounds like a badly disguised reprimand, please save those, the reprimands, for your pets. I am not peddling any beliefs, because I have comparatively few of them. Rather, I am comparing and contrasting, at the moment, three religions, sects and cults which claim to worship Jehovah: Judaism, Christianity and Jehovah's Witnesses. There seems to be extreme differences, at times, between and among them.

I understand that you are from what I consider the in some ways great state of Tennessee. If you are anywhere near Gatlinburg, please do give it, and yourself, my best regards. I have great memories of that town.
Sorry if I misunderstood your post....I'm about 100 miles from Gatlinburg. The world has always been evil and had an ungodly cast of player. (WW I; WW 2 and the likes) But what is different is the sign of the times of the multitude of the false and the UNGODLY churches that have prostituted themselves with the world (political religion as thou it represents God). If we are called, we should not be engrossed in disputable words or doctrines, but preaching the Gospel of God in Jesus, The Christ of God.. That includes Salvation by faith in Christ alone and the kingdom of God. It is expected of the elected and is an immediate need.
 

Serveto

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Sorry if I misunderstood your post....

No problem whatsoever. I am sure I don't always make myself very clear, though I do strive for clarity, sometimes, maybe, to a fault.
I'm about 100 miles from Gatlinburg. The world has always been evil and had an ungodly cast of player. (WW I; WW 2 and the likes) But what is different is the sign of the times of the multitude of the false and the UNGODLY churches that have prostituted themselves with the world (political religion as thou it represents God). If we are called, we should not be engrossed in disputable words or doctrines, but preaching the Gospel of God in Jesus, The Christ of God.. That includes Salvation by faith in Christ alone and the kingdom of God. It is expected of the elected and is an immediate need.
For what my opinion is worth, I think you are answering your call very well, and I usually respect the simplicity, which I don't confuse with simple-mindedness, let that be absolutely understood, of your message and emphasis. In other words: preach it, even if it is often to a bunch of us hooligans and Sunday School rejects :cool:.
 

floss

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Ok I’m Catholic and not me, not any Catholic I know believe that our lady is God or worship her and I read the holy bible daily so he doesn’t seem like a true Catholic to me
I don’t believe you. All my catholics friend worship mary and bow down to her statue. Some even claim mary is the second meditator between man and God. And it’s so convenience that the catholics church REMOVED the 2nd commandment. If you’re catholics, I’m giving you a warning right now to repent of this grave sins of idolatry and fully trust in ONLY JESUS BY FAITH and not your own righteousness.
 

elsbet

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Well, again, if you go to non-Christian Jews with your above-listed criteria, they will tell you...

I really don't understand the hangup-- "Well, the Jews say... "


... should native speakers of Aramaic, even if there aren't many these days, say "God," or "Jehovah," instead of "Eloi?"
Of course i know but that was not the point.

Your sources said that Jesus used the plural form of God in Mark 15:34 and that is not correct.

He used the singular form of God two times just as Psalm 22 and i asked why ?
Singular... correct, according to Strong's

elói: my God

Original Word: ἐλωΐ
Part of Speech: Aramaic Transliterated Word (Indeclinable)
Transliteration: elói
Phonetic Spelling: (el-o-ee')
Definition: my God
Usage: (Aramaic), my God.

Note that the term Allah is a "borrowed" term from the word Elah (אלהּ), though of course Hebrew monotheism predates the rise of Islam by several thousands of years...
LINK
 
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