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TokiEl

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Yeah, I've read that theory about Jupiter quite a few years back. It still doesn't explain how the star could lead the wise men specifically to Bethlehem. Stars and planets don't move and stay over a geographical spot.
Bethlehem is just six miles south of Jerusalem and on this short one hour journey Jupiter was seen over Bethlehem.

It can be confirmed by astronomy software that on a moonless night in December 25 2BC Jupiter stood over Bethlehem as seen from Jerusalem.

Why in the Gospel account of Matthew it was worded that the star went before them till it came and stood over where the young Child was might have been a Divine hint that this star was a wandering star known today as a planet with the propensity to stop before going retrograde.





King Jupiter triple conjuncted or crowned king Regulus in king Leo from September 15 3BC to May 15 2BC.

And Jupiter and Venus came into close conjunction on June 17 2BC shining as a brilliant evening star.

Jupiter was seen over Bethlehem from Jerusalem on December 25 2BC .


So when was Jesus born ?
 
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Todd

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Or it could be the return of the Pillar of fire that represented the Shecinah Glory of God. Would make totally sense that the birth of the Messiah would be the one event that would be a reason for the return of this phenomenon. Why do you feel the need to explain a supernatural event by natural phenomonen?
 

TokiEl

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Or it could be the return of the Pillar of fire that represented the Shecinah Glory of God. Would make totally sense that the birth of the Messiah would be the one event that would be a reason for the return of this phenomenon. Why do you feel the need to explain a supernatural event by natural phenomonen?
The wise men said it was a star... and you say it was a supernatural event.

Who do you think is right ?
 

Todd

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The wise men said it was a star... and you say it was a supernatural event.

Who do you think is right ?
I think the greek word Aster originally meant a light strewn across the sky. Over time that word became associated with Stars, so today our english translation says "Star". The wisemen never said the word "Star".

Besides, the wise men didn't write the words you are reading in the Bible anyways. Though inspired by God, Matthew was not an eyewitness account of what the Wise men actually said.

Please don't try to tell me there is a rare natural phenomenen were by a virgin could become pregnant to explain away the supernatural event of the virgin birth LOL! (Or maybe the angel Gabriel had a medical degree form the university in heaven and performed in vitro fertilization on Mary.)
I prefer to believe that God just does supernatural things now and then and we don't need to discover rare natural phenomenen to explain them. It's called faith and I have some!
 

TokiEl

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I think the greek word Aster originally meant a light strewn across the sky. Over time that word became associated with Stars, so today our english translation says "Star". The wisemen never said the word "Star".
Aster is the Greek word for celestial bodies such as stars planets and asteroids. If they ment a pillar of fire they would probably say so.


Besides, the wise men didn't write the words you are reading in the Bible anyways. Though inspired by God, Matthew was not an eyewitness account of what the Wise men actually said.
I understand that you don't take what is written in the Scriptures seriously. But like to inject your own personal opinion about this and that.


Please don't try to tell me there is a rare natural phenomenen were by a virgin could become pregnant to explain away the supernatural event of the virgin birth LOL! (Or maybe the angel Gabriel had a medical degree form the university in heaven and performed in vitro fertilization on Mary.)
No that was a supernatural event as the Scriptures say and i have not contested that.


I prefer to believe that God just does supernatural things now and then and we don't need to discover rare natural phenomenen to explain them.
An inquisitive mind seeks to find out what is fact and what is false and is not satisfied with beliefs or guessworks.


It's called faith and I have some!
You don't believe Jesus is God and you believe everybody eventually will be reconciled with God. So it is at best a subjective faith and not Scriptural at all.
 

TokiEl

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If we want to find out when the Messiah was born we got to take what is witten in the Bible seriously.

The star of Bethlehem is forever connected to Jesus Christ and testifies to His universal Kingship. Since time began the planets have moved across the sky as clockwork. And at a specific point in time they told the wise men that the King of the Jews that is the Messiah or Christ was born. The movements of the celestial bodies in the sky shouted to those with ears to hear Here comes the King of Heaven !

It is possible with just the Bible and the knowledge of this celestial event to figure out exactly when the Messiah was born.
 

TokiEl

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The Revelation of Jesus Christ which is the prophetic last book of the Bible is the only old document in the world which warns about a human microchip implant.

If you don't know your Bible you might think an implantable microchip is a great idea.

Revelation 14 9 "Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

 
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TokiEl

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The Economist cover for 2019 might indicate a blackout.

If they turn off the lights and shut down the grid the cities will come to a standstill.

And without food and water civility will go out the window and gangs will break down the doors.

Complete collapse and chaos. Welcome to Helter Skelter.
 

rainerann

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Concerning the return of the Jews you are just speaking from your own spirit while this is what the Spirit says.

Ezekiel 36 22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land."
Moved our Bible discussion

"Then I fell facedown and cried out in a loud voice, “Alas, Sovereign Lord! Will you completely destroy the remnant of Israel?”

The Promise of Israel’s Return
14 The word of the Lord came to me: 15 “Son of man, the people of Jerusalem have said of your fellow exiles and all the other Israelites, ‘They are far away from the Lord; this land was given to us as our possession.’

16 “Therefore say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Although I sent them far away among the nations and scattered them among the countries, yet for a little while I have been a sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone.’

17 “Therefore say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will gather you from the nations and bring you back from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel again.’

18 “They will return to it and remove all its vile images and detestable idols. 19 I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. 20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God. 21 But as for those whose hearts are devoted to their vile images and detestable idols, I will bring down on their own heads what they have done, declares the Sovereign Lord.” Ezekiel 11: 13-20).

Let's requote the verses you are quoting highlighting verse 23 instead.

Ezekiel 36 22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land."

I don’t know when god ever intends to mean that the sanctifying of his name does not include acts of righteousness the way you are implying with your interpretation. The two go together. The removal of detestable things is how God name is sanctified among the nations. One plus One equals that a remnant will be called to return to righteousness. In other words, they will repent. To say otherwise is to contradict every judgment that God ever gave throughout scripture towards injustice, violence, disobedience. It is like saying that God permits this because he has shown favor to Israel, which is a complete contradiction of scripture. So if there is no action of repentance, then you are following and supporting something false. There is no other way to look at it.

Here is a link searching the term "violence" specifically in the book of Ezekiel to see exactly what God has to say about the presence of "violence" in the land. https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=NIV&quicksearch=violence+&begin=33&end=33

And here is an article about the Merkava 4, which is an army tank named after the mystical concept from the book of Ezekiel. https://www.army-technology.com/projects/merkava4/

The violence in the land does not sanctify the name of the Lord among the nations. If anything, it causes many to profane His name further because of the hypocrisy of the situation. You can't even defend this cause without acknowledging the unrighteousness that is present. You justify this by saying that God is doing this despite the presence of injustice, but if there is injustice, there will be judgment. So that we should not be praising this as though it were a good thing.

If there is injustice, there will be judgment, period.

Finally, here is what Paul says scripture is for.

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, (2 Timothy 3:16). It is always about righteousness. To try and say otherwise, is to speak something that is false.

It is not useful for the excusing of violence, deceit, manipulation, briberies, and other sins that are committed in order to force the creation of the state of Israel. Stop using scripture for the wrong reasons.
 
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TokiEl

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I don’t know when god ever intends to mean that the sanctifying of his name does not include acts of righteousness the way you are implying with your interpretation. The two go together. The removal of detestable things is how God name is sanctified among the nations. One plus One equals that a remnant will be called to return to righteousness. In other words, they will repent. To say otherwise is to contradict every judgment that God ever gave throughout scripture towards injustice, violence, disobedience. It is like saying that God permits this because he has shown favor to Israel, which is a complete contradiction of scripture. So if there is no action of repentance, then you are following and supporting something false. There is no other way to look at it.
God said He would bring them back for His name and reputation.

It is you who question the righteousness of the Jews but God says their righteousness has nothing to do with Him bringing them back.

It's all about His name and reputation.

Besides Israel is the most righteous nation in the world !

And if you knew your Bible you would know that the time will come when they will all recognize their Messiah and nationally repent.
 

rainerann

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God said He would bring them back for His name and reputation.

It is you who question the righteousness of the Jews but God says their righteousness has nothing to do with Him bringing them back.

It's all about His name and reputation.

Besides Israel is the most righteous nation in the world !

And if you knew your Bible you would know that the time will come when they will all recognize their Messiah and nationally repent.
Right, changing their hearts is about his reputation. He doesn't have to do this. Here is the reality Tokiel, if Israel was returning in righteousness, they would be living in the Gaza strip in gratitude instead of complaining and campaigning for more. That is the way to restore Israel with offerings of thanksgiving and gratitude. Not with a highly advanced military. It is not rocket science. It is clearly spelled out in scripture what the Lord wants. These people building the Israeli war machine are capable of reading this for themselves.

They would be waiting on the Lord to bless them and expand their territory, but having a territory at all is something to be grateful for when you consider how they were judged according to scripture. If God gave you back something that was taken because of judgment, how do you think you should respond according to your understanding of scripture? Scripture really makes it very easy to understand how to restore Israel. It should not be this hard at all. It is this hard because there is disobedience, and you pretending that this doesn't matter is like whitewashing wickedness and sin.

To say that they will return to Israel and that repentance is not required because of this, is to contradict everything that is written in scripture regarding the relationship between Israel and the Lord. Repentance is required to restore Israel and restoring Israel would not be hard if there was repentance. You act like this is supposed to be difficult and it isn’t! It is like fifty percent of scripture has to be ignored to support the present state of Israel as the will of God.

This picture of god you are painting is not the god of the Bible And without repentance, there will be judgment. That is just the reality that seems to be too difficult for you to face.

You are supporting the coming of the Antichrist with your support of Israel and celebrating it as though it were a good thing. Every Christian Zionist is. I choose not to support the Antichrist who will soon face judgment.
 
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TokiEl

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Right, changing their hearts is about his reputation.
Bringing His people back home to His land is His reputation.

And they will recognize the Messiah and mourn for Him as for an only Son.


Here is the reality Tokiel, if Israel was returning in righteousness, they would be living in the Gaza strip in gratitude instead of complaining and campaigning for more.
Israel is God's own piece of real estate on the earth. It is His land. And it was for centuries a wilderness and a wasteland as Mark Twain described it on his tour in the Holy land in 1867.


Not with a highly advanced military. It is not rocket science. It is clearly spelled out in scripture what the Lord wants. These people building the Israeli war machine are capable of reading this for themselves.
God is plainly speaking in the Bible that He will use Israel as His battle axe to crush His enemies. The Arabs have about 20 nations surrounding the only one Jewish nation. Islam is the problem ! not Israel.


You are supporting the coming of the Antichrist with your support of Israel and celebrating it as though it were a good thing. Every Christian Zionist is. I choose not to support the Antichrist who will soon face judgment.
You are a troll.
 

TokiEl

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It's in the bible
Heaven declared the birth of the King of kings.

His advent was written in the stars.

The king of the wandering stars Jupiter conjuncted the king of the fixed stars Regulus in the king constellation Leo.

And the wise men knew the Messiah was born !
 

TokiEl

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Don't talk shite ;)
You don't recognize nor appreciate that His birth was written in the stars. That the celestial bodies testified to the birth on earth of their Creator.


They knew way before, traveling 2000-2500 km at the time took some time i suppose...Maybe even years.
The wise men knew that this was the sign of the Messiah. And a sign always come before the event which the sign points to. In this case the Messiah was born one year after Jupiter's first conjunction with Regulus.
 

TokiEl

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On July 22 2014 New York woke up to two white flags waving atop the towers of Brooklyn Bridge.






Now if you watch this clip from the movie Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (2009) you will know what to expect in the near future.

 
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