"Hebrew Israelite" theology discussed...

[Red Sky at Morning]

A clip in which "Hebrew Israelite" theology is discussed...

I hadn't come across this view at all till I started on VCF so it has been a learning curve to try to understand what Hebrew Israelites hold to and their biblical basis.

Agree or disagree with them, it is worth understanding what is being claimed and to exchange ideas...

 

[Vytas]

My simplistic mind is completely unable to look at this seriously...What a load of bull crap... Oh and off course they are aggressive, it's always the case...Salvation only for them, and the rest of humanity irrelevant...

 

[Rec]

Inb4 a certain someone comes in and opens a can of whoop-a$$ on you Edomite devils.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Inb4 a certain someone comes in and opens a can of whoop-a$$ on you Edomite devils.

Which is why the whole discussion is best left to the analysis of a Black African-American rather than a white dude like me. ;-)

 

[Rec]

See all those dislikes? He obviously has no clue what he's talking about. Even as a white cracker, I know the so-called "African-Americans" are the real Jews of the Bible and that the Most High is going to put me in bondage for stealing the original Jews from West Africa and sending them to the United States of Egypt. They don't cultishly disavow any criticism of them on every YouTube video for nothing: their voices must be heard and the truth must get out!

 

[Renegade]

Deut 28:68 was fulfilled in 70ad and 132ad...

"So this Fronto slew all those that had been seditious and robbers, who were impeached one by another; but of the young men he chose out the tallest and most beautiful, and reserved them for the triumph; (418) and as for the rest of the multitude that were above seventeen years old, he put them into bonds, and sent them to the EGYPTAIN MINES. Titus also sent a great number into the provinces, as a present to them, that they might be destroyed upon their theaters, by the sword and by the wild beasts; but those that were under seventeen years of age were sold for slaves."

(Josephus, The Wars of the Jews, Book 6, Chapter 9; 75 AD)

Following the Bar Kokhba revolt (132 AD):

"Now that Betar had been captured, everything came under Human control, while Palestine [Judah] was reduced to a desolate mound. Captives were sold into slavery in numbers too great to count. First they were brought to the grand annual market at the Terebinth-Eloh tree in Hebron, or in the words of Hyranumous, to the Tent-Ohel of Abraham near Hebron(Palestine). Each slave sold for the price of a horse. Those captives who were not sold there were brought to the market place in Azza [Gaza] which, because of the great multitudes of slaves who were sold there, was called Hadrian’s market place. And those who were still not sold there were herded into ships and WERE TAKEN TO EGYPT. Many died in transit, whether by starvation or by shipwreck, while many also were killed by cruel masters."

-- Munter; Primordia Eccl. Africanae, pp. 85f.,113.

"Innumerable was the multitude of those who were sold away as slaves. At the Annual market at Terehinth of Hebron(Palestine) they were offered fur sale in such numbers that a Jewish slave was of no more value then a horse. What could not be disposed of there was brought to Gaza and there sold or sent to Egypt, on the way to which many died of hunger, or of SHIPWRECK."

-- Emil Schurer, ” A History of the Jewish People in the Time of Jesus Christ”, Edinburgh, 1896, p.11.

https://plus.google.com/111363461798101732879/posts/5EsjP4wFyXe

 

[Daciple]

It is straight up Racism point blank plain and simple. It should be rejected just as the Racist British Israelism ought to be, because they are literally the same exact ideology just one is Racist for Blacks and one is Racist for Whites. I think there is this word going around that kinda sums these ideologies up, what is it? Oh yeah Appropriating another Culture.

I believe those who are into this garbage must hate their actual Culture, cant find anything good within it so they have clung to the Hebrew Culture and taken it as their own. Blacks nor European Whites are the Hebrews, and in the end really it doesnt even matter because there is no White or Black, Jew or Greek, Slave or Master in Christ. I abhor this ideology, it is so incredibly Racists and trying to talk sense to these Racists is impossible as we will find out when the resident Racist Black Hebrew identifier shows up eventually to defend his incredibly Racist ideology...

 

[Serveto]

It is straight up Racism point blank plain and simple. It should be rejected just as the Racist British Israelism ought to be, because they are literally the same exact ideology just one is Racist for Blacks and one is Racist for Whites. I think there is this word going around that kinda sums these ideologies up, what is it? Oh yeah Appropriating another Culture.

I believe those who are into this garbage must hate their actual Culture, cant find anything good within it so they have clung to the Hebrew Culture and taken it as their own. Blacks nor European Whites are the Hebrews, and in the end really it doesnt even matter because there is no White or Black, Jew or Greek, Slave or Master in Christ. I abhor this ideology, it is so incredibly Racists and trying to talk sense to these Racists is impossible as we will find out when the resident Racist Black Hebrew identifier shows up eventually to defend his incredibly Racist ideology...

What is strange, inconsistent to me is that, when African-Americans claim to be Hebrews, they are accused of racism, but many American Protestant Evangelicals get all squirmy with excitement and blow their shofars in Jerusalem's direction in full support of a modern, nation state, namely Israel, built largely upon the same racist, or at least ethnocentric, consanguineous principles. I say this not in rebuttal to your statement, but simply as an observation, and I only know of this movement by way of the op introductory video. I am hoping to learn more.

 

[Daciple]

What is strange, inconsistent to me is that, when African-Americans claim to be Hebrews, they are accused of racism, but many American Protestant Evangelicals get all squirmy with excitement and blow their shofars in Jerusalem's direction in full support of a modern, nation state, namely Israel, built largely upon the same racist, or at least ethnocentric, consanguineous principles. I say this not in rebuttal to your statement, but simply as an observation, and I only know of this movement by way of the op introductory video. I am hoping to learn more.

Well I believe Zionism is Racist as well, however I think there is a difference between Black Hebrew Israeli ideology and what you describe. For one according to BHI all white people are going to Hell because of their Skin color alone, there is no hope for us Devil White Crackers, no matter if I follow their Laws or anything else I can possibly do, Ive got a ticket straight to Hell. Christian Zionism doesnt state this, only that the Jews have a different method of Salvation apart from Jesus Christ (which is blasphemy and a lie). Essentially they believe that Jews are special and get to Heaven based on their Ethnicity where as everyone else can still get to Heaven but have to believe on Jesus.

I think that is wildly different than BHI personally...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Well I believe Zionism is Racist as well, however I think there is a difference between Black Hebrew Israeli ideology and what you describe. For one according to BHI all white people are going to Hell because of their Skin color alone, there is no hope for us Devil White Crackers, no matter if I follow their Laws or anything else I can possibly do, Ive got a ticket straight to Hell. Christian Zionism doesnt state this, only that the Jews have a different method of Salvation apart from Jesus Christ (which is blasphemy and a lie). Essentially they believe that Jews are special and get to Heaven based on their Ethnicity where as everyone else can still get to Heaven but have to believe on Jesus.

I think that is wildly different than BHI personally...

@Daciple - as I understand Christian Zionism, God made a covenant with Abraham to the nation of Israel that he would not allow the to be completely destroyed and that they would one day come into the fullness of Gods promise to him.

There is a distinction between God not abandoning Israel as a nation and individual Jews rejecting their Messiah and therefore being lost. As I read things, during the time of Jacob's trouble, the "stiff necked" people will be brought to a point of repentance and recognise Jesus was their promised Messiah or they will reject him and follow the Antichrist instead.

In many ways, what happens with the Jews will be a microcosm of the choice people in the nations will face too.

I have never met any Christian who is supportive of Israel who believes that Jews don't need Jesus.

This video shows the split between Jews who are open to the Gospel and those who are not.

 

[mecca]

according to BHI all white people are going to Hell because of their Skin color alone, there is no hope for us Devil White Crackers, no matter if I follow their Laws or anything else I can possibly do, Ive got a ticket straight to Hell.

You sure about that?

 

[Daciple]

You sure about that?

Yes, watch the video...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Yes, watch the video...

"whoop-a$$ on you Edomite devils" sounds pretty clear to me ;-)

 

[Daciple]

I have never met any Christian who is supportive of Israel who believes that Jews don't need Jesus.

“The law of Moses is sufficient enough to bring a person into the knowledge of God until God gives him a greater revelation…Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha’i, needs to believe in Jesus, but not Jews” (Pastor John Hagee, interviewd by Julia Duin, “San Antonio Fundamentalist Battles Anti-Semitism,” The Houston Chronicle, 30 April 1988)

John Hagee is a massive supporter and propagandizer of Christian Zionism, he is probably one of if not the biggest reasons why this idea is so popular via TV. He clearly teaches that the Jews dont need Jesus and since he has 1000's of followers, I am sure they believe this same garbage...

I am wondering if you have ever studied any other ideology besides Pre Trib Pre Mil Dispensationalism or studied the problems with these ideologies? I was raised to believe in Pre Trib Pre Mil, then I studied independently and have since rejected it. I wonder how many people who believe what they believe ever studied other ideologies independently or if they take a close look at theological problems within the ideologies they hold?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

“The law of Moses is sufficient enough to bring a person into the knowledge of God until God gives him a greater revelation…Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha’i, needs to believe in Jesus, but not Jews” (Pastor John Hagee, interviewd by Julia Duin, “San Antonio Fundamentalist Battles Anti-Semitism,” The Houston Chronicle, 30 April 1988)

John Hagee is a massive supporter and propagandizer of Christian Zionism, he is probably one of if not the biggest reasons why this idea is so popular via TV. He clearly teaches that the Jews dont need Jesus and since he has 1000's of followers, I am sure they believe this same garbage...

I am wondering if you have ever studied any other ideology besides Pre Trib Pre Mil Dispensationalism or studied the problems with these ideologies? I was raised to believe in Pre Trib Pre Mil, then I studied independently and have since rejected it. I wonder how many people who believe what they believe ever studied other ideologies independently or if they take a close look at theological problems within the ideologies they hold?

John Hagee, unless he has changed in his perspective, is in error here!!! I don't think "Christian Zionism" is a useful term in discussion anymore. Perhaps the phrase "unfinished Abrahamic business" is more useful ;-)

P.s. I used to be pre-wrath / post-trib ;-)

P.p.s. R$E does quite a good job of describing a balanced view on Israel...

 

[Serveto]

s

Well I believe Zionism is Racist as well, however I think there is a difference between Black Hebrew Israeli ideology and what you describe. For one according to BHI all white people are going to Hell because of their Skin color alone, there is no hope for us Devil White Crackers, no matter if I follow their Laws or anything else I can possibly do, Ive got a ticket straight to Hell. Christian Zionism doesn't state this, only that the Jews have a different method of Salvation apart from Jesus Christ (which is blasphemy and a lie). Essentially they believe that Jews are special and get to Heaven based on their Ethnicity where as everyone else can still get to Heaven but have to believe on Jesus.

I think that is wildly different than BHI personally...

I see. Those are important, significant differences, well worth keeping in mind. Thank you.

@Red Sky at Morning: "unfinished Abrahamic business." Good one! I am still going to say "Christian Zionism," especially if I use any search engines to further educate myself on the topic, but do appreciate your poetic euphemism, which might, in some cases, even be an excellent, less politically loaded description.

 

[Daciple]

I used to be pre-wrath / post-trib

What is your opinion on Covenant Theology? Dispensationalism is by far the most convoluted ideology ever made up and it definitely was made up. Absolutely no one thought in these terms until the mid 1800s, in the same span of time that all the other modern Cults were coming about (think Mormonism, Jehovah Witness, 7th Day Adventism, Millerities, ect) John Nelson Darby created this ideology, and if you study this dude he was pretty crazy and very "Nazish" in terms of his theology and whom he would allow into his fold. His Cult was called the Plymouth Brethren. I always find it helpful to investigate the beginning of ideologies, especially ones that are recent.

To accept Dispensationalism is essentially to state that every single Christian in existence was incorrectly understanding Prophecy for the Entirety of the History of Church until 1830-40. I have to say that after studying all of these ideologies I can not logically say that the Disciples of the Disciples had no clue how Prophecy was going to be fulfilled, and that literally every Christian in existence for the first one thousand eight hundred plus years was not able to correctly understand the Word of God.

I think Covenant Theology is the simplest and easiest and makes the Word of God congruent and has been the overall method in which the Church has understood Prophecy for the entirety of the History of the Church. Instead of breaking up everything into these 7 different "Dispensations" there is 2 which are clearly stated in Scripture, the Old Testament and the New Testament. It makes all the Scriptures concerning the End Times line up, and makes all the Prophecies concerning Jesus Return and what happens at that time all make sense. There is no need to cut things up move this chapter 1000's of years into the Future, randomly make God go back on the New Covenant ect ect ect.

Anyways I hope one day you study J N Darby more in depth and maybe Covenant Theology and Amillennialism...

 

[Todd]

@Daciple
I have never met any Christian who is supportive of Israel who believes that Jews don't need Jesus.

Then why is it a policy of many Christion Zionist organizations with a presence in Israel to never preach the gospel to the Jews they support?

 

[Serveto]

John Hagee, unless he has changed in his perspective ...

To me, it seems unlikely that he will change his perspective, because, if he does, he will probably lose his invitations, as a token but doctrinally acceptable Christian preacher, to AIPAC Conventions.

 

[Rec]

"whoop-a$$ on you Edomite devils" sounds pretty clear to me ;-)

I hope you were able to discern the sardonic nature of my remarks. There are "some" here who subscribe to these black supremacist beliefs (not saying who).