Why Feminism isn't needed anymore (except in 3rd world countries)

justjess

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Conviction rates have nothing to do with rate of report @rainerann .. we can go back and forth over why women dont report, but the conviction rate is seperate from that since it only reflects reported cases.
 

justjess

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Also yes, if someone steals your bag you are both victim and witness. There are plenty of crimes where you can be both victim and witness. How are you even saying that?
 
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Research, statisrics, personal experience..

Raineran - conviction rates only consider crimes that have been reported so your off base with that.. they are dismal, r*pe kits frequently arent even tested, and female victims are commonly treated like theyre the criminal themselves - this is a seperate issue from under reporting but its usually a big part of the reason people dont report
Are these very credible sources?
 

rainerann

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Also yes, if someone steals your bag you are both victim and witness. There are plenty of crimes where you can be both victim and witness. How are you even saying that?
I think you are exaggerating where I would get that comparison considering the rampant evidence of crimes being committed by people capturing things on their cell phones. I don't know how you are not seeing the reality that being a witness and victim in r*pe is completely different than it would be for just about every other crime. I will expand, if someone steals your bag in front of the store and tries to run away, how many people do you think could serve as witnesses to support your statement. The likelihood of at least one other witness in just about every other crime is increased by at least 50% conservatively.

When you are a victim of r*pe who is considering reporting the crime to the authorities, there is additional social pressure from people who may know the perpetrator to consider as well. This can cause a person to passively approach getting justice for what was done to them. When a person wants justice because someone has robbed them, there is a possibility that they will have to fight to have someone take this seriously as well. Even if they do fight, in the most basic crimes, there is a possibility that the person who has stolen from you or wronged you in some way will get away with it because in order to convict someone of something there is criteria that has to be met. It isn't just victims that struggle with the legal system.

Many people never get their cars back after they were stolen. They never find the person who killed their family member. The conviction rate does not provide an argument that the community does not care about crimes committed against women in comparison to crimes committed against men. It does not demonstrate bias created by gender.

Then, you consider the way the crime of r*pe violates the victim in a spiritual way, how likely do you think they are to advocate for themselves the way someone could if they were a victim of theft, and if victims can't advocate for themselves in the same way, this is contributing to the problem.

What really needs to happen even more than increasing the rate of convicting perpetrators is that we need to create social pressure that prevents this from happening. Social pressure will increase as the victim community increases and finds methods to overcome their tendency to passively address the crimes committed against them. This is more than likely what will happen before the rate of conviction increases. That is because of the complex dynamics involved in being a victim of this crime. There are many hats that a person has to wear in trying to have this prosecuted as a crime and a feminist can make a lot of noise, but noise is not the only thing a victim needs to motivate them to stand up for themselves.
 
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I think you are exaggerating where I would get that comparison considering the rampant evidence of crimes being committed by people capturing things on their cell phones. I don't know how you are not seeing the reality that being a witness and victim in r*pe is completely different than it would be for just about every other crime. I will expand, if someone steals your bag in front of the store and tries to run away, how many people do you think could serve as witnesses to support your statement. The likelihood of at least one other witness in just about every other crime is increased by at least 50% conservatively.

When you are a victim of r*pe who is considering reporting the crime to the authorities, there is additional social pressure from people who may know the perpetrator to consider as well. This can cause a person to passively approach getting justice for what was done to them. When a person wants justice because someone has robbed them, there is a possibility that they will have to fight to have someone take this seriously as well. Even if they do fight, in the most basic crimes, there is a possibility that the person who has stolen from you or wronged you in some way will get away with it because in order to convict someone of something there is criteria that has to be met. It isn't just victims that struggle with the legal system.

Many people never get their cars back after they were stolen. They never find the person who killed their family member. The conviction rate does not provide an argument that the community does not care about crimes committed against women in comparison to crimes committed against men. It does not demonstrate bias created by gender.

Then, you consider the way the crime of r*pe violates the victim in a spiritual way, how likely do you think they are to advocate for themselves the way someone could if they were a victim of theft, and if victims can't advocate for themselves in the same way, this is contributing to the problem.

What really needs to happen even more than increasing the rate of convicting perpetrators is that we need to create social pressure that prevents this from happening. Social pressure will increase as the victim community increases and finds methods to overcome their tendency to passively address the crimes committed against them. This is more than likely what will happen before the rate of conviction increases. That is because of the complex dynamics involved in being a victim of this crime. There are many hats that a person has to wear in trying to have this prosecuted as a crime and a feminist can make a lot of noise, but noise is not the only thing a victim needs to motivate them to stand up for themselves.
Ok maybe we men aren't laughed at, but still women TEND to get it easier for charges like that.
 

Trublue

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I don't like pop feminism anymore than anyone else. I usually cringe at some of the terms folks use, like mansplaining. I usually sigh when someone makes a complaint about something in pop culture. I shake my head when ever someone claims to be a feminist, yet hates men, because they miss the point of what feminism is supposed to be about.

But to say it isn't needed is a misunderstanding of what feminism is. It's about equality between the sexes; not equal rights in the law. It is to say that male and female, while not the same, are both part of the human race; neither better or worse than each other. Both have their strengths and weakness and people should be judge based on who they are, not what they have between each other.

We need feminism because some people don't understand that if someone is blackout drunk or passed out, they can't content to sex, no matter what they while they were sober. We need feminism, because we have people who still believe that little girls have to be protected and little boys should be left to fend for themselves, either though a healthy child needs a balance. We need feminism because people seem to forget that men and women are both human and entirely equal.

Equality goes beyond legal rights. Equality is how we treat each other, how we view others, and a whole lot more... And while we will likely new have true equality in this world, it's something we need to still work towards. Even if we fail, that shouldn't matter. If we really want a better world, we need to work towards it.
 

Sunshine

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And how to you know that?
Because most rapes still aren't reported. And when they are, the chances of a perpetrator being tried and/or found guilty are still shockingly low. No one here would argue that men don't get raped, but it's more likely to be by another man than a woman. And they don't report it, likely for the same reasons that most women don't: shame, economic necessity and a lack of faith in the legal system.

Feminism is not culprit in any of these things. Indeed, if we invest the resources properly, we can improve things in our societies, much as they have in the past. It used to be taboo to even talk about such things, yet here we are having our internet conversations.

And even if "feminism" hasn't eradicated hate, bigotry, etc. altogether, you can't deny the huge strides made even in the last 50 years. Perhaps we need something bigger than a feminist movement; how about a "humanist movement," (without all of the eugenic baggage that the word entails) to continue to increase equality and quality of life.

I will concede your point that it is currently trendy in the West to dismiss and emasculate males. While it can be interpreted as "feminism" taken to the extreme, and they do highlight and reinforce it in the media, most women don't feel that way. Our society has been grappling with redefining gender roles since the turn of the millennium. There will be a counterbalancing effect, I am sure, and everything will return to a relative equilibrium. Men are going to have to choose for themselves how they want to be defined, and I hope that it strikes a balance between Old School masculine ideals (courage, dependability, strong work ethic) and the perspective offered by being raised by two generations of "liberated" women. Qualities such as empathy, compassion, respect and appreciation for the differences and similarities between women and men.
 
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We need feminism because some people don't understand that if someone is blackout drunk or passed out, they can't content to sex, no matter what they while they were sober. We need feminism, because we have people who still believe that little girls have to be protected and little boys should be left to fend for themselves, either though a healthy child needs a balance. We need feminism because people seem to forget that men and women are both human and entirely equal.

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So do we need masculism for the males who have consensual sex when drunk before being accused of r*pe the next day because the girl doesn't remember/like what she did?
 

justjess

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So do we need masculism for the males who have consensual sex when drunk before being accused of r*pe the next day because the girl doesn't remember/like what she did?
no.. you need to teach boys that plying women with alcohol to get in their pants isnt ok. u need to teach boys what consent is and to control their impulses until they get it. u need to teach boys that some things are off limits no matter what, like drunk females, just like we already teach them underage girls and for our teenagers that prepubescent children are off limits. we need to teach them that sharing someones nude pics is a sex crime. we need to teach them a lot of things we currently arent.. (theres many things we need to teach our girls too)

honestly that whole bro culture is disgusting but very much ingrained. so easier said then done.

why do u think having sex with someone too intoxicated to know what they are doing is okay?
 

mecca

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consensual sex when drunk
How can a person consent when they are drunk (under a mind altering substance)? Sometimes people use alcohol to get people drunk and have sex with them. The best thing to do is to not have sex with a drunk person... especially if they're drunk and you're not, that's blatantly taking advantage of someone.
 
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So do we need masculism for the males who have consensual sex when drunk before being accused of r*pe the next day because the girl doesn't remember/like what she did?
Well, if you have sex with someone who is too intoxicated to remember what they are doing... That's r*pe, chief. No matter what she saying while she's drunk and not in full control of what she's doing, or what she said was okay before she got that drunk. Would you be cool with someone having sex with your sister or daughter, who got so drunk she couldn't remember what happened? I'd wager you wouldn't...
 

Kung Fu

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I think we can all agree that someone trying to influence you into getting drunk while they don't is pretty nefarious but whatever happened to personal responsibility? Women should teach other women to learn how to not get into situations where they can be taken advantage of and this goes for boys as well. Before my wife became a Muslim she used to drink but she knew better than to be in a club alone and surrounded by guys while drunk.

If I was black I wouldn't be walking into bars owned by the KKK.

Since we have FEMINism we should also have MASCULISim. You know so the gender playing field can be equalized.
 

Maes17

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How can a person consent when they are drunk (under a mind altering substance)? Sometimes people use alcohol to get people drunk and have sex with them. The best thing to do is to not have sex with a drunk person... especially if they're drunk and you're not, that's blatantly taking advantage of someone.
Always good to avoid clubs/drinks and the like.
Nothing good ever comes out of it
 

justjess

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i feel like theres some kind of false idea floating around that moderately drunk women who meet men at parties or bars and willingly hook up are feeling guilty the next morning en masse and screaming r*pe when it wasnt. since hook up culture is so much a part of our teen and young adult socialization (as much as i wish it wasnt) guys are scared, and since they see themselves participating in hook up culyure just assume the woman is lying, evil, over reacting whatever.

seriously though, that isnt whats fueling this. normal behavior isnt being demonized here. theres nothing to be spooked by if your a decent human being

I think we can all agree that someone trying to influence you into getting drunk while they don't is pretty nefarious but whatever happened to personal responsibility? Women should teach other women to learn how to not get into situations where they can be taken advantage of and this goes for boys as well. Before my wife became a Muslim she used to drink but she knew better than to be in a club alone and surrounded by guys while drunk.

If I was black I wouldn't be walking into bars owned by the KKK.

Since we have FEMINism we should also have MASCULISim. You know so the gender playing field can be equalized.
you think this only happens when alone? or with people u dont know and trust? that is a bit naive.. date r*pe is a thing, its way way more common for a woman to be assaulted by someone she knows then stranger r*pe.

yeah we have to teach our girls some things too but personal responsibility ends where criminal behavior begins.

feminism also fights for men, the way things are right now hurts us all. what exactly would masculinism even fight for? would that fight be at the expense of women? the mens rights groups ive seen seem more interested in complaining and lashing out at women then doing anything tangible to actually help men.
 

Aero

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honestly that whole bro culture is disgusting but very much ingrained. so easier said then done.
I agree. I think it starts with cutting back on alcohol consumption. Because there is hardly ever security anywhere. And when they are, they are terrible. There's not much to keep the bros in check.

People should be able to go out and have fun in a safe environment. I mean why is this even a question? People need to start looking in the mirror. Because we are getting the world we apparently want. One that isn't really that safe for anyone. We have to resort to not going out in public much. And it's dumb, like that's not a solution.

We might as well give everyone magic bullets. But that's forbidden in the Bible.
 
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no.. you need to teach boys that plying women with alcohol to get in their pants isnt ok. u need to teach boys what consent is and to control their impulses until they get it. u need to teach boys that some things are off limits no matter what, like drunk females, just like we already teach them underage girls and for our teenagers that prepubescent children are off limits. we need to teach them that sharing someones nude pics is a sex crime. we need to teach them a lot of things we currently arent.. (theres many things we need to teach our girls too)

honestly that whole bro culture is disgusting but very much ingrained. so easier said then done.

why do u think having sex with someone too intoxicated to know what they are doing is okay?
Let me clarify. I was speaking on a man and a women having a drunken night and having consensual sex. Then the next day the girl either regrets or doesn't remember the night and screams r*pe. Should men come up with an ism to fight these type of cases that are definitely prevalent in society? And when are feminists going to speak up and out against this behavior?

And where's the responsibility for the women making the choice to get drunk to where she blackouts or doesn't remember things? Of course blacking out doesn't equate with deserving r*pe, but at the end of the day certain decisions can increase the chances of certain things happening. Something majority of modern feminists aren't teaching women
 
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How can a person consent when they are drunk (under a mind altering substance)? Sometimes people use alcohol to get people drunk and have sex with them. The best thing to do is to not have sex with a drunk person... especially if they're drunk and you're not, that's blatantly taking advantage of someone.
So who raped who if two people are both drunk and have sex? They both go to the police and accuse each other of r*pe?

I said nothing of one person being drunk and the other not. But even if that was the case what do we say about the women's decision making to where she would get black out drunk around men who could potentially assault her? Again, this isn't to say that anyone deserves r*pe for getting drunk but that poor decision making can lead to bad consequences. A sentiment, that isn't really being said by modern feminists...
 

justjess

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Your presenting a problem that doesnt really happen. you claim its prevalent but based on what?? If youbhave something that proves that please share, id love to see it.

Women are taught damn near from birth not to go out alone, to not go oht in the dark, to be cautious what we wear lest soneone get the wrobg idea, to stay in groups, to never put down their drink.. hell most of the time we dont even go to the bathroom alone. What your seeing now is backlash to that because it isnt fair we have to constantly monitor or own movements in the world, constantly be alert to danger and scared becausr we were born with vaginas.

That isnt freedom and it isnt something men have to worry about.
 

justjess

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Have you ever got drnk with friends? At a party? At a bar/club? Have you ever overdone it a bit? If someone took advantage of you on those ocxassions - which are perfectly notmal and acceptable for a man - would it be your fault?
 
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