Did Jesus Christ give christians license to sin ?

Lisa

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Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith.

This here tell me they were never a believer to begin with [unsaved]. How can the Holy Spirit indwelled unbeliever? This is not talking about they goes from belief into unbelief, they were never saved. God will not spare ANY unbeliever. But he will spare those who are saved, believed, those who has the Holy Spirit indwelled in them Forever.
No, floss, you’ve got it wrong, sorry.
Paul was talking how Israel was broken off for their unbelief and is telling Christians not to get conceited by them being grafted in, for if God didn’t spare His own, He won’t spare you either...
 

floss

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It was in the Romans verse I gave to you earlier. I was going by that as well.
Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. Romans 11:20-22

I don’t think it makes God a liar if you fall away. Forever with the Holy Spirit provided you don’t fall away. I don’t see a problem with that. Especially when it says that He may be with you forever, I don’t see it as He will be with you forever.
May- used to indicate possibility or probability <you may be right>
Its not a guarantee....
you are mixing scriptures to support losing salvation, John 14:16-17 does not say He may be with you FOREVER, IF you continue in His kindness.

I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. John 14:16-17

That's like me saying,

John 3:16King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.


You said if someone killed themself, they will lose salvation? What about King Saul taking his own life, did he lose it?

very extreme example:
If I go around evangelizing 100 people and got them saved by grace through faith but knowing they will be falling away [losing salvation], IF I took their life before them falling away to save them from losing salvation, are they saved?
 

Lisa

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you are mixing scriptures to support losing salvation, John 14:16-17 does not say He may be with you FOREVER, IF you continue in His kindness.

I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. John 14:16-17

That's like me saying,

John 3:16King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.


You said if someone killed themself, they will lose salvation? What about King Saul taking his own life, did he lose it?

very extreme example:
If I go around evangelizing 100 people and got them saved by grace through faith but knowing they will be falling away [losing salvation], IF I took their life before them falling away to save them from losing salvation, are they saved?
No, I sent you a list of scriptures..at least I think you got it too and that was one on the list. So, I do consider it a fall away scripture. And I think it does meld with Hebrews 6:4-6

I don’t see it that way. Sorry I confused you.

Do murderers take part in the kingdom? You kill yourself is it murder? If you kill someone else as a Christian do you think you will be in the kingdom of heaven? Because what kind of place do you have to be in to do that sort of thing?

Was King Saul offered salvation through Jesus Christ? ;)

Does it matter if you are evangelizing anyone in that scenario? It is not you that gets them saved, btw. You can’t save anyone. Paul says I planted, Apollo watered but it was God that caused the growth....
I would be more worried about your salvation at that point...No one has the right to take anyone’s life no matter if it saves them from falling away and that’s a pretty twisted way to look at things.
 

Todd

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You said if someone killed themself, they will lose salvation? What about King Saul taking his own life, did he lose it?
I didnt know King Saul believed in salvation by grace/faith alone?
 

floss

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Do murderers take part in the kingdom? You kill yourself is it murder? If you kill someone else as a Christian do you think you will be in the kingdom of heaven? Because what kind of place do you have to be in to do that sort of thing?
I'm not talking about myself, I'm talking about the other 100 people, are they save or not?

Was King Saul offered salvation through Jesus Christ? ;)
I take this as a NO, you don't believe King Saul is saved. Which also mean all the OT prophets are not saved since they don't believe on Jesus Christ?

Does it matter if you are evangelizing anyone in that scenario? It is not you that gets them saved, btw. You can’t save anyone. Paul says I planted, Apollo watered but it was God that caused the growth....
I would be more worried about your salvation at that point...No one has the right to take anyone’s life no matter if it saves them from falling away and that’s a pretty twisted way to look at things.
Again, it's not about me, I did said it was an extreme example and ask if you think the 100 people are saved?
 

Lisa

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I'm not talking about myself, I'm talking about the other 100 people, are they save or not?


I take this as a NO, you don't believe King Saul is saved.


Again, it's not about me, I did said it was an extreme example and ask if you think the 100 people are saved?
Are you going to go out and kill saved people then floss?

How would King Saul be saved?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I could provide a list of scriptures to form a case for prosperity word/faith theology.

E.g. http://www.kcm.org/real-help/finances/apply/18-bible-verses-about-wealth-and-prosperity

I could make a great case for them by taking them in exclusion and out of context. I don't believe a truly born again Christian can lose their salvation.

On a note of standing back a bit, it looks to me like students arguing over whether a rubbish final grade gets them thrown off the course or just provided with a bare pass.
 

Lisa

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I could provide a list of scriptures to form a case for prosperity word/faith theology.

E.g. http://www.kcm.org/real-help/finances/apply/18-bible-verses-about-wealth-and-prosperity

I could make a great case for them by taking them in exclusion and out of context. I don't believe a truly born again Christian can lose their salvation.

On a note of standing back a bit, it looks to me like students arguing over whether a rubbish final grade gets them thrown off the course or just provided with a bare pass.
How did I take them out of context? They all mention falling away.
 

Todd

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You said if someone killed themself, they will lose salvation? What about King Saul taking his own life, did he lose it?
I didnt know King Saul believed in salvation by grace/faith alone?
Is Abraham saved by works? or any other OT prophets...
Abraham was saved by works through faith and grace.
 

Lisa

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You never answer the question. Is the 100 people saved or not? [of course I"m not going to kill anyone, it was an extreme example]



https://www.gotquestions.org/was-King-Saul-saved.html
Sorry, guess I was more worried about you killing people so they didn’t have a chance to fall away...
It seems like a trick question, I would think the answer is obvious.

I’ll have to check out the King Saul link, gotta go to work...have a good evening floss.
 

rainerann

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@Kung Fu

I know you are just trying to harass me by continuing to quote me over and over again. That is what you do. That is your true character. It is like listening to the man who was living in the tombs (Mark 5:1-20).

Nevertheless, you are quoting me in context. So maybe you are having some reading comprehension issues with what I said. I will try to elaborate one time, because in general, talking to you is like casting pearls before swine.

Let's bold the part that requires reading comprehension to understand.

I said, "You cannot be born again and continue to sin. There is not such thing as a person who continue committing adultery after becoming saved. It would make you miserable. If is like having an allergic reaction to sin when you are sealed with the Holy Spirit."

So if we use our reading comprehension to integrate the two sentences together because it is not good writing technique to put both sentences into one long, run-on sentence. The average person should be able to see that what I am saying is that continuing to sin after being sealed with the Holy Spirit will make you miserable.

It is because of this allergic reaction you will experience when the Holy Spirit circumcises your heart that you cannot continue sinning as though sin were insignificant.

I reused several words. However, I used the word Holy Spirit so that might hinder your reading comprehension. Either way, explaining this further is like throwing pearls before swine, so I will not be doing this.

You may think you are making me look bad or calling me out, but you are really only making yourself look like you are possessed by a demon. Have fun with that and have a nice day.
 

Kung Fu

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@Kung Fu

I know you are just trying to harass me by continuing to quote me over and over again. That is what you do. That is your true character. It is like listening to the man who was living in the tombs (Mark 5:1-20).

Nevertheless, you are quoting me in context. So maybe you are having some reading comprehension issues with what I said. I will try to elaborate one time, because in general, talking to you is like casting pearls before swine.

Let's bold the part that requires reading comprehension to understand.

I said, "You cannot be born again and continue to sin. There is not such thing as a person who continue committing adultery after becoming saved. It would make you miserable. If is like having an allergic reaction to sin when you are sealed with the Holy Spirit."

So if we use our reading comprehension to integrate the two sentences together because it is not good writing technique to put both sentences into one long, run-on sentence. The average person should be able to see that what I am saying is that continuing to sin after being sealed with the Holy Spirit will make you miserable.

It is because of this allergic reaction you will experience when the Holy Spirit circumcises your heart that you cannot continue sinning as though sin were insignificant.

I reused several words. However, I used the word Holy Spirit so that might hinder your reading comprehension. Either way, explaining this further is like throwing pearls before swine, so I will not be doing this.

You may think you are making me look bad or calling me out, but you are really only making yourself look like you are possessed by a demon. Have fun with that and have a nice day.
You claimed that "You cannot be born again and continue to sin". Though it's true that sinning can make you miserable it no way stops you from sinning. There are plenty of things that we know are bad for us but yet in the moment we do it and feel regret afterwards but it doesn't erase the sin. Funny how I sound more Christian than you right now. Tells us sweetheart after you became "born again" have you ever sinned afterwards or did you stop sinning?

Remember as long as you keep making ridiculous statements I'm going to call you out on it.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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There are miserable Christians who slide into sin once they are saved. Does the Holy Spirit leave them in peace to continue in sin? From my own experience, that would be a big "no", @Kung Fu ;-)

If they ignore the conviction of the Holy Spirit, they soon enter into discipline and judgement. This can sometimes be the "maximum judgement" of the "sin unto death".
 

Damien50

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There are miserable Christians who slide into sin once they are saved. Does the Holy Spirit leave them in peace to continue in sin? From my own experience, that would be a big "no", @Kung Fu ;-)

If they ignore the conviction of the Holy Spirit, they soon enter into discipline and judgement. This can sometimes be the "maximum judgement" of the "sin unto death".
Is that like rock bottom or something spiritual?
 
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So... for those who might find it useful, the absolute most effective way to deal with passive-aggressive behavior is to not let it appear to affect you. You don't even have to completely ignore the person as long as you are simply speaking and not reacting. Usually this behavior stops when the person notices there is no reaction to it.

I don't enjoy immediately feeling all of these tense emotions whenever I visit this site, so just trying to help lighten the mood. Carry on.
 
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