Guess you didnt read my previous reply on that did you? Lets see you clearly misquote Samuel right? Oh yeah you did, how did I know?
As I said previously, if you would like to address it be my guest:
Man if that isnt a contradiction in thought and ideology I dont know what it, so the central part of Israeli Culture is obedience to the Law right? The same Law that mandates Sacrifice for Blood Atonement yet you want to act like that obedience to that Law doesnt really mean that much lol ok then...
Also God never downplayed the important of Sacrifice, its a wonder you dont actually quote the Scripture that you derive that idea from, I know why you havent, because if we actually read what is being told it has absolutely nothing to do with God downplaying Sacrifice and everything to do with Sauls disobedience. Since you wont quote it I will and lets go over it and see if what you are saying is really true or just you misquoting Scripture out of context and trying to cling to a false doctrine to justify rejecting the importance of Blood Sacrifice, which is mandated in the Law...
1 Sam 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
Here is the beginning of what was happening before the Verse you would be quoting, so we see that God tells him to go and smite all the Amalek, to utterly destroy them, and what ends up happening?
1 Sam 15:9 But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.
So Saul doesnt do what he was told instead he spared the best sheep and all that was good for himself, then Samuel comes to him and what happens then?
1 Sam 15:13 And Samuel came to Saul: and Saul said unto him, Blessed be thou of the Lord: I have performed the commandment of the Lord.
Man so he lies to Samuel and says he did what God told him to do, but clearly he didnt and Samuel calls him out on it:
1 Sam 15:14 And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?
So after being called out by Samuel in his lie, Saul continues his lie and says this:
1 Sam 15:15 And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed.
Now he lies and says well yeah the best were spared but it was to sacrifice to the Lord, which again was a lie, and also notice he doesnt take the blame for himself does he? No he blames the people for taking the best things and lies and says THEY were going to sacrifice it to God. So what happens after this? Thats when the verse you would like to quote takes place and in context doesnt have anything at all to do with God not actually desering Sacrifice:
1 Sam 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
So in absolutely no way does this say Sacrifice isnt something God wants or ordains, in context what we see is that Saul went directly against what God commanded in annihilating everything to do with the Amalekites, instead he choose to keep all the Good things for himself, then when confronted about it he lies to Samuel saying he did what God commanded, then when caught in that lie, he lies again and blames the people saying they took it to Sacrifice. Thats when its said look God told you to kill everyone and everything, instead you took things for yourself and use the excuse that you are going to Sacrifice them to God, God never told you to Sacrifice these things, its better that you follow what God tells you to do than to disobey him and use the excuse of Sacrifice as a reason to disobey.
So now that we have this verse in context we can all see this has absolutely nothing to do with God disapproving Sacrifice and everything with obeying Gods Commandment in THAT specific incident to kill everyone not to choose of yourself what you want and then pretend its ok do disobey because you are going to Sacrifice it...
Since that is no longer a Scripture used to negate the importance of Sin, which others ones have you cherry picked out of context to support this ideology, I would love to know so we can do what we did here and put them back in Context to show everyone that God DOES NOT disapprove of Sacrifice, He Commanded it plain and simple...
Theres the actual context of Samuel, has zero to do with not wanting a Sacrifice and everything to do with obeying the Command God gave in that particular circumstance. As I said to KM, if you feint to be a follower of the Old Testament then its a wonder how you can try and say we need to follow the Old Testament, which MANDATES SACRIFICE in the LAW, and then in the same breath say its ok NOT to have Sacrifice, lol the sheer hypocrisy is stunning..
Lets go ahead and address your other Cherry Picked verses see if they mean what you wish them to mean or if it literally doesnt mean that as Samuel doesnt:
Jeremiah 7:22 For when I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt I did not speak with them concerning burnt offerings or a sacrifice, BUT I did command them to OBEY me, and to obey my voice. I will be your God and you shall be my people and walk in all the ways I commanded you so that it may go well with you.
Welp you Cherry Picked again, and clearly are not able to discern what God is speaking about here just as you were not able to discern what He was speaking about in Samuel. All you had to do was go up one little verse to understand what He is saying, which is very similar to what He was saying to Saul but not exactly, however we will see later that this exact same theme is continually present when God speaks about His desire NOT for Sacrifice, something I suppose you havent come to understand yet.
Jer 7:21 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
I would love to just quote that then ask you how you explain God speaking of Sacrificing 1 verse before your supposed verse to negate the need for Sacrifice, because if what you say is True then God is contradicting Himself within a verse. I would love to see how you keep God from contradicting Himself here, but considering you literally are making God contradict Himself by negating the need for Sacrifice when He LITERALLY commanded it, it wouldnt surprise me if you would just let it stand as a contradiction.
However since I am sure you wouldnt give the proper explanation, I will show how God isnt negating Sacrifice at all, and what this actually means. What God is saying here is that because the people are so Sinful and yet feint to follow and worship Him when in fact they are literally following and worshiping other Gods ( 9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the Lord.) that they might as well take their burnt offerings and combined them with their Sacrifices and then eat them. I would assume that you being so knowledgeable on the Old Testament would understand that burnt offerings (aka Sin Offerings) were to be fully consumed with nothing left to eat, and the other Sacrifices could be eaten. The point of this Scripture is God saying because you are not really worshiping me, you might as well go ahead and eat the Offerings for your sins (something forbidden of God) because they serve no purpose. In otherwords why bother going ahead and doing a Ritual for your Sin if you arent looking to have it Truly Forgiven and arent going to follow me?
That sets up the next verse and puts it in context, which if we read it in that context then you literally are condemning yourself by negating Sacrifice. So did God set up Sacrifice when they first came out of Egypt? No He didnt but did they OBEY at all? No they didnt, so what did He do? Set up the Sacrificial System so that when people dont OBEY aka Sin, they have a hope for Atonement. So do YOU obey all the time? If not guess who you are? Ill tell you, you are identical to those who were taken out of Egypt, who DIDNT obey and thus needed a Sacrifice to Atone for their Sins. You negating the need for Sacrifice simply means you are saying either you ALWAYS OBEY, which you dont or even tho I dont OBEY, I dont need your method of Forgiveness for my Sins God. In other words since you reject Gods method of Forgiveness then you will stand guilty before Him...
Next:
Psalms 51:16 For in sacrifice you did not delight- otherwise I would give it to you. You do not find delight in whole burnt offerings.
Lol I mean seriously do you even read the Scriptures that you are Cherry Picking from at all? Just like the prior two once we simply read the Context and the surrounding verses we see that what you are wishing to make it say, it doesnt, and what I and eb and the other Christians are saying about Sacrifice is correct. Please I implore you READ THE WHOLE CHAPTERS NEXT TIME...
Ps 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
This is one of the Scriptures I was going to quote, thanks for doing so to put in CONTEXT what all of these Scriptures about "not needed to Sacrifice" mean, which is identical to the one above. So what does God want over the Sacrifices of Animals in this Scriptures? A broken spirit and a contrite heart, do you understand what that means? It means He desires TRUE WORSHIP, TRUE REPENTANCE, TRUE DESIRE FOR FORGIVENESS, just like the above Scripture. Then what does David say? Does he say dont Sacrifice it really isnt needed? Nope not at all, instead he says what I already pointed out, when someone comes to God with the proper desires, aka True Worship, Repentance, Forgiveness, then the Sacrifice is accepted and pleasing to God. When they come out of obligation, out of Religion, and have no real desire to Worship, Repent or seek Forgiveness then the Sacrifice is meaningless to them. Just like how the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ is absolutely meaningless to you at the moment, because you have yet to come to God with a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart and ask to Truly Worship, Repent and seek Forgiveness from Him. The second you come before God with a broken Spirit and contrite heart, the Sacrifice will have meaning and then and only then will you find Forgiveness for your Sins...
Next:
Psalms 69:30 I will sing praises to the name of God and I will magnify him with thanksgiving this will please Him more than a bull.
So explain how this in anyway negates the need for Sacrifice for Sin. There are many Sacrifices spoken about in the Word of God one being more or less pleasing to God in no way negates the need for any of the others. Shall we now say that because God delights in the Sacrifice of Joy (Ps 27) that the need to offer sacrifices of Thanksgiving (Ps 116) are negated? Heaven forbid, did God command Blood Sacrifice for Sin, yes or no? Then why try and find ways to negate the need of it? I think God wouldnt be very pleased with someone trying to tell others to obey Him and then tell them to disobey His command of Blood Atonement for Sin...
Next:
Psalms 50:8 I did not reprove you because of your sacrifices, nor because of your whole burnt offerings that are constantly before me
Again do you even Bible bro? What does it say right before this?
Ps 50:5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.
His saints made a covenant with Him by Sacrifice, why on earth would He call them saints, command them into a covenant by Sacrifice if Sacrifice is to be negated? Once again it is the same exact idea as above and it seems like you dont even understand that verse alone.
That verse is literally saying I do NOT find fault in the fact that you have brought Sacrifices to me, you have kept up doing that which I have commanded you which is to bring the Sacrifices. Further down God tells them exactly why He will reprove or find fault in them saying:
Ps 50:16 But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?
17 Seeing thou hatest instruction, and casteth my words behind thee.
21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.
This is literally the EXACT same thing as all the others, I dont find fault in those that bring me Sacrifice who do it out of the right motivation of the heart, however what I do find fault in, is those who bring me Sacrifice but are wicked in all they do and DO NOT actually believe, follow, or have the desire to Repent and seek Forgiveness!! Why do you dare speak about the Covenant made by Sacrifice if you hate the instructions I give and cast everything I tell you to do behind you!!!
Absolutely nothing you have quoted negates the need for Blood Atonement of Sacrifice, all you have done is proven clearly, that one you dont actually read the Bible considering you quote verses to "prove there is no need for Sacrifice" when it says to actually Sacrifice a verses or two away. Two you have basically proven our point with the verses you have Cherry Picked, thank you and three you have actually demonstrated that you stand Guilty before God with the need of a Sacrifice because you DONT OBEY Him, which no one actually can obey Him fully, thus why we including you, need a Sacrifice for the Forgiveness of Sins. Thank God that He gave one thru Christ so that once we come before Him with a broken and contrite Spirit and Heart for our Sins before Him, when we really truly desire to Worship Him and follow after Him and know we need Forgiveness, He will apply the Sacrifice to us so we can be fully Forgiven our Sins!!! Praise the Lord that He has given us a way to be Redeemed even tho we havent always obeyed Him!!!
You can be Forgiven to Yahda all you have to do is be obedient to the call of Christ on your life right now and accept the Sacrifice He made for you!!! I hope one day you come to accept the offer of Grace that is before you and you will sing a New Song and offer Sacrifices of Joy and Thanksgiving before God for all of Eternity!!!
