Did Evolution Really Happen?

Mr.Grieves

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Umm yea, then you probably approached the situation with the wrong intent if your motivating factor was to satisfy/not disappoint family and friends...
That was my motivation for persisting even after several weeks of prayer in vain. As I've asked before, what ARE the conditions necessary to make contact with the creator?

Cant say I remember saying feathers have no weight and if I said they float, I meant in reality (not a vacuum) and that they float on its way down.
Here's the interaction, with the video of the feather and bowling ball redacted.
They have an excuse for everything but yall call them "proofs" just as gravity which can hold down billions of tons of water, but has problem with feathers/pieces of paper that get to float around without being held to the ground by the vary same force that can hold down trucks weighing TONS. Its like saying a person can bench 300 lbs, but not 10 lol. But that is completely legitimate because man tells you it is. While to me, I rather think for MYSELF.
Ughhhh. As I explained to someone else in another thread on this forum who was questioning the reality of Gravity, the reason why feathers/plastic bags/pieces of paper float around on the air is because air is a substance, just like water, and substances generate resistance. In the absence of air, as in a complete vacuum a feather falls as fast as a bowling ball, or a 300 ton truck, as a result of the force of gravity. Here's a video proving that which I'm sure you'll claim is fake CG. Upon seeing this, the other person questioning gravity realized their mistake and learned something important. Cant imagine that happening here.
Dude, as I just showed/explained to you, offering actual proofs which you're blatantly ignoring, gravity DOES NOT 'have trouble with feathers'. Feathers, bowling balls, 300 ton trucks, it doesn't matter; in a vacuum, all respond to gravity in exactly the same way and fall at exactly the same speed. Substances like air and water act as obstructions however, and can even provide buoyancy and lift when interacting with other substances/different conditions, which allow birds to fly, boats to float, balloons to rise, etc. A bird can fly through the air in a similar way to how a person or a fish can swim through the sea. A hot air or helium balloon can rise on the air in a similar way to how a submarine rises and submerges. Take away the water however, and the submarine just lies there. Take away the air, and the bird can't fly. Without substances like air and water and their properties, nothing floats, nothing flies, and any effort to leave the ground is answered by the traditional pull of gravity which you yourself can experience right now through experimentation: just jump.
Im not sure how explaining what goes on in a vacuum, when we dont live in a vacuum is relevant. Because again, the force of gravity (right?) is what holds the trillions of tons of water (or whatever the weight is) to the ground. If we had the ability to throw a 20 ton truck in the air, the belief you hold is that gravity would pull it straight to the ground. Yet with feathers, thats not the case. Address THAT, and not what happens in a vacuum, which we do not live in. Because a vacuum, actually proves my point more than it does yours. The belief in the flat earth says that whats heavier than air (or close to it)falls. So with no air, EVERYTHING falls. But the existence/or nonexistence of air, isnt the argument. Gravity is. So Im saying that to me, who is now skeptical of the mainstream view concerning this, it makes no sense to believe that there is a force that can bring down weighted ton objects down, but not feathers. Its akin to believing again, that someone can bench 300lbs but struggle with 30.
I don't see how anyone who's taken physics at any level could take your argument seriously.

Anyways at the time I took the class, I didnt take it to "test" what they said as being true or false. I simply took the class and accepted what they taught and did my best to regurgitate the information back to them for the highest grade possible. Hardly a case of "misunderstanding" anything.
If you never actually endeavored to understand what was being taught, and simply 'regurgitated' words in text-books without considering them, it's no wonder you so completely misunderstand everything you were supposedly taught.
But heres an example of what you would do if we were to even engage in that:
That 'Huh' was in response to this sentence:
Of course the points themselves are better put in another thread, to which you would do as you did here in regards to the REAL point being made, and not respond.
Which is generally incoherent.
The point was going to the wrong people to learn about a specific subject can lead to a misunderstanding and worse a rejection of said subject because of receiving wrong information. Instead of addressing the point of my analogy, you take the "physics" part out and start bringing up things that you dont even want to discuss anyways.
Yar, and after asking who the right people are and what the right way to go about it is, I pointed out the irony of you making this statement and using physics of all things as an example, as you clearly went to the wrong people to learn about physics-related subjects, namely YouTube and the Flat-Earth community.
The real truth of the matter is that I have you in your feelings from old threads still while I brush ish off and kept it moving lol. I didnt come in this thread with any of that in mind, just read thru the last couple of pages and responded to something you said.
'The moving finger writes, and having writ moves on: nor all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all thy tears wash out a word of it.' - The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam
I simply remember you, and don't want anyone unfamiliar with you to make the mistake of taking you seriously.
 

Mr.Grieves

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@Mr.Grieves
"The 'They' in this case was me personally as a young boy, and typically the only thing I prayed for was a sign/response of some kind. When I engaged in earnest prayer it was, I suppose, to the Christian God, as the church in question was Christian, protestant I think. I wasn't asking for any wishes to be fulfilled or miracles/magic to be performed, I was simply looking for the 'connection' that others claimed to experience and cited as their proof of God. I'm not sure how many times I tried really, this was all some time ago, but I know that I was really serious about it... "

This makes more sense to me, now.
Timing-- that's all this, imo. If you were seeking earnestly, you will be contacted.

For some odd reason, God just doesn't adhere to our timetables. :oops:
But you've been contacted by God, elsbet? In what form? What was it like? How did you know?
 

Mr.Grieves

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I thought of something the other day watching a video of my daughter as a toddler....babies are hardwired to develop language....that sounds like just one aspect of intelligent design/creation to me......
Infants are hardwired to develop language because language is essential to us as a species, one of the most useful tools for survival and expansion our big, complex brains afford us- our big, complex brains as well as our highly functional hands the two really tangible advantages we have as a species. We're not the only species to develop language of a sorts, the complexity of other species 'languages' typically directly related to their intelligence.
 

DesertRose

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'The moving finger writes, and having writ moves on: nor all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all thy tears wash out a word of it.' - The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam
:):) Nice.

The Creator of the heavens is not contingent but independent of Us, free of all need.
Interesting that you expect him to contact you to prove his existence.
.
For me belief in a Creator of the heavens and earth is an intuitive truth.

"Every person feels inside himself/herself that he has a Lord and Creator, and he feels that he is in need of Him; if some major calamity befalls him he turns his hands, eyes and heart towards the heavens, seeking help from his Lord."
(However would they admit to this? Maybe no. When you are in a jam have you asked for help? Can people ever admit that they are weak and need help? That we do not control events,or even our own body or have all the answers?
We can not even control our own heartbeat.
There is an innate nature that intuits this.
Something external to us gave rise to our limitations).

A Tangible truth would be when I look at his Creation:
When we look at this universe; we see around us things that exist, such as trees, rocks, mankind, the earth, the heavens, seas, rivers…
your own hand.
1. Did they get created by accident?
2. Did these things create themselves?
3. Did some Force Create them?
I reject the first and second assertions, I follow the third.

Quran:
Were they created by nothing? Or were they themselves the creators?
Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief.” [52:35]


I also believe in cause and effect.
Everything around me including that keyboard and the chair I sit on has a Creator.
Why do I not believe that I have a Creator.

What evidence do you have that God does not exist? The onus for explanations for denying the divine is on you.
The Islamic concept of a Creator who is to be worshipped and praised is part of the Fitrah a person's natural/innate disposition but this becomes clouded by how people are nurtured.
We would suggest hard core materialists have no firm belief that the Creator does not exist.
I pray to Allah that He allows all our hearts to reconnect to Him and keep us close not distant from him. Ameen.
 
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That was my motivation for persisting even after several weeks of prayer in vain. As I've asked before, what ARE the conditions necessary to make contact with the creator?
Certainly praying because of your family/friends satisfaction/insistence isnt whats necessary to make contact. If your heart was in the right place, and you were persistent, then maybe things would have been different. But biblically speaking, theres a lot of things that go into having a relationship with the Entity spoken about in the bible. Using your friends/family's satisfaction as a motivating factor isnt the thing thats going to connect you to the Creator.

Here's the interaction, with the video of the feather and bowling ball redacted.
As I expected I didnt say feathers were "weightless"


I don't see how anyone who's taken physics at any level could take your argument seriously.


If you never actually endeavored to understand what was being taught, and simply 'regurgitated' words in text-books without considering them, it's no wonder you so completely misunderstand everything you were supposedly taught.
You keep saying that I misunderstand things when its not a case of misunderstanding its a case of REJECTING. I dont misunderstand buddhism. I reject it (personally). I dont misunderstand what being a conservative consists of, I reject it in regards to me personally adhering to it.

Without mentioning that school isn't about being "educated". It's about hearing and regurgitating.
That 'Huh' was in response to this sentence:

Which is generally incoherent.
Just because you didnt understand something (for instance the bible) doesnt make it incoherent. I said if I was to have a real convo with you concerning these "phsyics" topics, you would do as you've done here. Take a point out of context and start a discussion about that. Physics has nothing to do with what was being discussed in this thread or the point I used it in regards to. Yet you ignored that point, and ran off on another tangent.

Yar, and after asking who the right people are and what the right way to go about it is, I pointed out the irony of you making this statement and using physics of all things as an example, as you clearly went to the wrong people to learn about physics-related subjects, namely YouTube and the Flat-Earth community.

'The moving finger writes, and having writ moves on: nor all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all thy tears wash out a word of it.' - The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam
I simply remember you, and don't want anyone unfamiliar with you to make the mistake of taking you seriously.
I didnt go to youtube to learn about physics though. I went to school for that. I learned and accepted what I learned in school as being true. And I could say the same for other subjects such as history. Later I was led to actually evaluating what truths or falsities are in science and history, and rejected them as being true until further proof was provided. Me rejecting the things espoused in history doesn't mean I "misunderstand" history. And I could even take that a step further and ask you for proof of the earth being round that doesnt consist of CGI pictures or words/experiences/observations of other men that is not readily available to everyone, but I wouldnt receive anything.

And it doesn't matter if you do or do not take me serious about anything. When the power switches from those who have it now to those it really belongs to, you'll have no other choice. But that has to do with the Bible that you went to the wrong people to understand so I guess that's a moot point. I guess you rather throw ad hominems at my "understanding" without actually bringing anything substantial to the table concerning it. Which is why I put it to you and/or someone else, why even bring up topics you're not willing to delve into?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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@Mr.Grieves -

When the question of ways of "reaching" or connecting with God is raised, many voices join in. In Psalm 136, the OT pictures God's nature...

"12With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever."

To be God, his strength and transcendence must be absolute and undiminished. To be knowable, this absolute nature must stretch out his hand to me. Jesus says "he who has seen me has seen the Father". Without knowing Him, I would know nothing of God's near presence or his mercy. The Jews had an echo of this presence in the Tabernacle and the Temple, and his mercy and forgiveness in the temporary Atonement provided in the sacrificial system.

You are free to do what you wish, and listen to whoever you find convincing. God reaches out to all of us with the outstretched, nail pierced hand of his Son. I believe that taking hold of his hand is the start of the journey home. He is why I am a "Christian", a follower of Christ.

P.s. The connection to Creation or Evolution - they nailed Him to a cross of wood, but He made the hill on which it stood...
 

mecca

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So what's an example of something they're not truthful about when it comes to science?
You're the one who says that they lie...

An unfortunately very simple way to get away with lies in science, is to be paid to come up with a certain results by a biased corporation or something.
 
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A.J.

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I understand what you are saying but what you are conveying is an exercise in circular reasoning which doesn't even scratch the surface of what I'm getting at.... You are saying acquired hardwiring, and I'm challenging there is no such thing

Infants are hardwired to develop language because language is essential to us as a species, one of the most useful tools for survival and expansion our big, complex brains afford us- our big, complex brains as well as our highly functional hands the two really tangible advantages we have as a species. We're not the only species to develop language of a sorts, the complexity of other species 'languages' typically directly related to their intelligence.
 

A.J.

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" 'The atomic elements pose deep mysteries. The minimal meaning-bearing elements of human languages—word-like, but not words—are radically different from anything known in animal communication systems. Their origin is entirely obscure, posing a very serious problem for the evolution of human cognitive capacities, language in particular. There are insights about these topics tracing back to the pre-Socratics, developed further by prominent philosophers of the early modern scientific revolution and the Enlightenment . . . though they remain insufficiently explored.'

Is there an ontological discontinuity between humans and other animals? Berwick and Chomsky arrive, on purely empirical grounds, at the conclusion that there is. All animals communicate, but only humans are rational; and for Berwick and Chomsky, human language is primarily an instrument of rationality."

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2017/04/first-words


Infants are hardwired to develop language because language is essential to us as a species, one of the most useful tools for survival and expansion our big, complex brains afford us- our big, complex brains as well as our highly functional hands the two really tangible advantages we have as a species. We're not the only species to develop language of a sorts, the complexity of other species 'languages' typically directly related to their intelligence.
 

A.J.

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If I can interject, I don't think they lie, but I do believe they push the boundaries of the scientific method....or to put it more bluntly, they defy their own rules and/or the universal rules of science, in this particular and most vital area of study.

They declare 1 + 2 = 300.... Without being able to demonstrate mathematically (i.e. using the scientific method) how they got there.... That's a major problem that can't be dismissed with credentials and bravado.... Or manufactured consent.... True skeptics - not deniers - will see right through that

You're the one who says that they lie...

An unfortunately very simple way to get away with lies in science, is to be paid to come up with a certain results by a biased corporation or something.
 
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A.J.

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Too much science has fallen prey to the manufactured consent phenomenon so prevalent in politics & culture and used as a sledgehammer to drive things in their direction..... Even though stuff like progressive gender studies and their 'biological basis' is more religion, ideology and Gnostic scientism than anything that resembles scientific proofs (i.e. Bill Nyes recent neflix fiasco on the subject of gender & sex)
 
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elsbet

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But you've been contacted by God, elsbet? In what form? What was it like? How did you know?
I'm not avoiding this question. :D
I've written and then deleted 2 responses-- both had a pompous ass vibe, and that just isn't my intent.
The facts: I've always believed. I can't remember a time I didn't. So my experience has been different from yours. I think my struggle was more about the nature of God, than anything-- and it was a struggle, and I am still learning. I pray that never stops. But there is a dividing line in my life that separates Then and Now.

I never had a white light experience. There was no audible voice from the blue, no vision. More of a gradual dawning that culminated into a How could I have doubted? And it still floors me.
I've been fortunate to have people in my life over the last 15 years, that have what I consider to be an authentic, working faith. Whether they attend church on Sunday mornings, I have no idea. I dont identify with that, anyway.
But I also have a need to know more, that is akin to hunger-- I can't tell you how many years I've studied and researched this faith. In so doing, and through experience, I can say yes, I have been contacted. What is it like? Nothing else. Please refer to the previous paragraph, which is really the best way I know to describe it (see: how could I have doubted?). I hope that answers your questions, @Mr.Grieves .
 

TMT

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Comparing embryonic brain development to that of the brains of fish and reptiles was what really sealed my acceptance of evolution. It's a real thing and it's actually quite beautiful, you have millions of years of life and time inside of you.
 
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You're the one who says that they lie...

An unfortunately very simple way to get away with lies in science, is to be paid to come up with a certain results by a biased corporation or something.
I think its clear that NASA (a "scientific" organization I assume)lies or has lied.

And I agree with your second sentence and think that happens way more than people think. I see that as a good reason why Tesla has been written out of modern day science
 

Kung Fu

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Evolution/adaptation is indeed happening and will continue to happen and has been proven to be happening through controlled experiments and tests but the narrative in how evolution occurred (Darwinian Evolution) has absolutely no scientific evidence to really back it up. In reality much of what we see in our world today actually contradicts the glass foundations of Darwinian Evolution.
 
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