Who is Jesus Christ ?

[FilthPig]

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."
John 1:14

Can anyone explain how that process went ,from word to flesh ? Kinda hard to imagine.
Yet it is pretty easy to visualise it if we would assume that God speaks the language of Light and everything is made of light .Learn the language of Light and it all becomes much more clearer to understand (EMF spectrum,wave modulation etc).

but what make us think God is easier to understand than the universe we barely understand ??

Why think those 2 things are separate ?
https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/favourite-non-abrahamic-scripture-quotes.6654/post-531101

 

[TokiEl]

Phipps is correct there are no "two" persons at any moment, God is One.

In the bible there is a distinction between God and Logos... Father and Son.

There are two Lords sitting side by side.


Both make up the Godhead but there is a distinction between them.

 

[Wigi]

Can anyone explain how that process went ,from word to flesh ? Kinda hard to imagine.
Yet it is pretty easy to visualise it if we would assume that God speaks the language of Light and everything is made of light .Learn the language of Light and it all becomes much more clearer to understand (EMF spectrum,wave modulation etc).

God's mysteries are not fully explained by human concepts.

"Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ."
Colossians 2:8

In the bible there is a distinction between God and Logos... Father and Son.

In fact the Bible reveal exactly How God is Triune and there is no distinction. The Father-Son relationship is One God, it's a mystery beyond our comprehension.

"I and My Father are one."
John 10:30

I take an example, Jesus says he's the good Shepherd :

"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep."
John 10:11

And in the Old Testament, when God meets Gedeon He appear as an Angel holding a staff in His hand, like a shepherd.

Then the Angel of the Lord put out the end of the staff that was in His hand, and touched the meat and the unleavened bread; and fire rose out of the rock and consumed the meat and the unleavened bread. And the Angel of the Lord departed out of his sight. Now Gideon perceived that He was the Angel of the Lord. So Gideon said, “Alas, O Lord God! For I have seen the Angel of the Lord face to face.”
Judges 6:21‭-‬22

I let you connect the dots and reach your conclusion.

 

[TokiEl]

Can anyone explain how that process went ,from word to flesh ? Kinda hard to imagine.

Some have a problem with Jesus Christ being God since he spoke about the Father.

How can Jesus be God when the Father is God etc etc


We know from the OT that there are two Lords sitting side by side... and John explained that one of them is the Logos or Word who was with God in the beginning and who is God too.

That Logos who is God too was born on earth as a man... or more precisely as a GodMan.

 

[TokiEl]

In fact the Bible reveal exactly How God is Triune and there is no distinction. The Father-Son relationship is One God, it's a mystery beyond our comprehension.

As i said both make up the Godhead.


And there are two Lords sitting side by side.





Matthew 22 41While the Pharisees were assembled, Jesus questioned them: 42“What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is He?”

“David’s,” they answered.

43Jesus said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord’? For he says:

44‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand until I put Your enemies under Your feet.” ’

45So if David calls Him ‘Lord,’ how can He be David’s son?”

 

[TokiEl]

In fact the Bible reveal exactly How God is Triune and there is no distinction. The Father-Son relationship is One God, it's a mystery beyond our comprehension.

Do you think phipps is correct about the Holy spirit being God the Father's Son too ?

 

[phipps]

Do you think phipps is correct about the Holy spirit being God the Father's Son too ?

I was playing devil's advocate. You posted, "Jesus is called the Son of God because God begot Him... that is provided the Y chromosome to His biological body." I then asked if you knew the Holy Spirit called God the Father, Father too. I don't think the Holy Spirit is the Father's Son nor has such a thing ever been written of in the Bible. Anyway Jesus' name is not about Him being begotten by the Father but about His saving us through His death. I hope I clarified my position.

 

[TokiEl]

I was playing devil's advocate. You posted, "Jesus is called the Son of God because God begot Him... that is provided the Y chromosome to His biological body." I then asked if you knew the Holy Spirit called God the Father, Father too. I don't think the Holy Spirit is the Father's Son nor has such a thing ever been written of in the Bible. Anyway Jesus' name is not about Him being begotten by the Father but about His saving us through His death. I hope I clarified my position.

You were playing the devil's advocate ?

Yeah well im tempted to put you on ignore.

 

[phipps]

There is an order of authority in the Godhead. All three Persons of the Godhead are the same in properties and attributes, and equal in power and glory but the Father is recognized as the ultimate authority.

“And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s” (1 Corinthians 3:23).

“But I would have you know, that … the head of Christ is God” (1 Corinthians 11:3).

The Son constantly receives His glory, power, throne, and prerogatives as Judge from the Father (John 3:35; John 5:22). Indeed, it was God the Father that “gave” the Son. In fact, while it might not be wrong, we are never told to pray to Jesus or the Spirit - but instead to the Father in the name of the Son. Yet just because the Father seems to have supreme authority, it does not in any way diminish from the divinity of Jesus and the Spirit. That would be like saying that a corporal is less of a soldier than a sergeant.

Among the three members of the Godhead, we do not see a clamouring for pre-eminence, vying for recognition, or revelling in power. Instead, the exact opposite is true. In fact, the Father, Son, and Spirit always seem to be trying to outgive and glorify each other. The Father wants to glorify the Son. The Son lives to glorify the Father, and the Spirit lives to glorify the Father and Son (John 17:1, 5; John 16:14; John 13:31, 32).

Jesus is the one who has always dealt with humanity directly from the beginning of this world till the end. Everything He does is done by the authority of the Father though.

 

[phipps]

You were playing the devil's advocate ?

Yeah well im tempted to put you on ignore.

Suit yourself. Its not something that I will lose sleep over.

Jesus' birth was unique, mysterious and miraculous but He came into this world to show us how to live Christian lives fully submitted to God and also to pay the price for our sins so we would be saved should we choose to follow Him.Those things are more important than His birth.

God bless.

 

[AdjeYen]

That's according to the quran.


That's according to the bible.

Haha. You Christian people are something else. Kudos to the real Christian believers who refuse to make Jesus look like he has superpowers like Son Goku.
It's not just according to the Qur'an, but also according to your Bible, my friend, but I understand, you want to make Jesus look like he's the Creator and stuff like that. You keep telling yourself that, mate.

Jesus is a human being as was Adam in the beginning. There is no theological basis in either the Old or New Testaments for a ‘half god’ without straying into Greek demigod territory.

 

[TokiEl]

Suit yourself. Its not something that I will lose sleep over.

Jesus' birth was unique, mysterious and miraculous but He came into this world to show us how to live Christian lives fully submitted to God and also to pay the price for our sins so we would be saved should we choose to follow Him.Those things are more important than His birth.

God bless.

1 Tim 4 1Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, 2influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron.

3They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from certain foods that God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.



So according to the Holy spirit phipps you who post stuff about absitnence from certain foods are not in the faith. And that would explain why you don't understand spiritual things and still is obstinate with the shepherde.

 

[TokiEl]

Haha. You Christian people are something else. Kudos to the real Christian believers who refuse to make Jesus look like he has superpowers like Son Goku.

?


John 5 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom He wishes. 22Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son, 23so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.



So Jesus is the One who will judge you.

You can tell him he is just a man then AdjeYen.

Good luck.

 

[phipps]

1 Tim 4 1Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, 2influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron.

3They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from certain foods that God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.



So according to the Holy spirit phipps you who post stuff about absitnence from certain foods are not in the faith. And that would explain why you don't understand spiritual things and still is obstinate with the shepherde.

First of all this has got nothing to do with what we've been discussing.

I have not abandoned the faith thank God. Everything Jesus did was very important but its His death especially that's central to our salvation not His birth.

Abstinence from certain foods is biblical. From the flood we know there were clean and unclean animals (Genesis 7:1-2). Seven of the clean animals went into the ark and only two of the unclean. Then God also told the Jews not to eat the blood and fat of the animals and specified which animals are clean and unclean to eat (Leviticus 11). This is something that has never changed. God never changed His mind at any point and said its okay to eat any animals whether they are unclean or not. Its people who misunderstand His Word. Just as you've misunderstood the verses above and I explain them in my thread about the original diet of man. I'll repost it below.

Paul is telling Timothy about false believers who will “depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils” (1 Timothy 4:1). They are in error—no longer following the Scriptures.

1. Paul tells Timothy these false teachers will command people to “abstain from meats.” But what kind of meats? 1 Timothy 4:3 tells us these are not unclean meats but meats that “God hath created to be received with thanksgiving.” This cannot mean unclean animals, because they were never intended to be eaten!

2. These clean meats are to be “received with thanksgiving of them that believe and know the truth” (1 Timothy 4:3). Believe and know the truth about what? Obviously, the truth about clean and unclean animals.

3. 1 Timothy 4:4 says, “For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving.” This does not mean that every created being is permitted to be eaten. If this were the meaning, cannibalism would justified. Rather, this verse refers to the previous verse’s clean animals. Those who “believe and know the truth” will receive “with thanksgiving.”

4. 1 Timothy 5:5 describes the meat further: “For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.” Two things sanctify this food—“the word of God” and “prayer.” Remember this is the meat that false teachers said could not be eaten. This is in contradiction to God’s Word which listed the meat as “clean” (1 Timothy 5:1). By knowing the truth in the Word of God, and receiving these clean animals in a thankful manner with prayer, the true believers would obey God and not the “doctrines of devils.”

What would this passage be saying if it referred to unclean instead of clean food? Would it really mean that we could eat anything if we pray over it? Would we allow our children to eat anything, as long as they prayed over it? Not likely! We can expect God, our Father, to give guidance of what is good for us.

I also post about Peter's vision in Acts 10.

@Beloved posted in my thread about the original diet of man:

"One of the many issues with Christianity is that it has people thinking that Paul is writing to people who didn’t obey the law of God/Moses, when in actuality, he is writing to followers of the Messiah who were obeying the commandments of God.

Anytime that eating meat is being spoken of in the New Testament, it is referring to clean animals only.

Paul is not writing to people who were eating unclean animals.

Again, it is not up to believers to decide what animals are clean and unclean - God already decided that and gave the verdict - Leviticus 11. It’s not a matter of personal choice.

Paul is not writing to Sunday Christians who don’t obey His commandments."

Now I'll stop this discussion with you because it going out of hand and not based on what we were originally discussing. I'll stick to biblical truth.

Bye.

Isaiah 66:17
“Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord."

 

[Alanantic]

I don't bother about what was before this earth was formed.

The world was quite well formed when Krishna was alive. He lived from 3228 BCE and departed in 3102 BCE.

 

[A Freeman]

Can anyone explain how that process went ,from word to flesh ? Kinda hard to imagine.
Yet it is pretty easy to visualise it if we would assume that God speaks the language of Light and everything is made of light .Learn the language of Light and it all becomes much more clearer to understand (EMF spectrum,wave modulation etc).

Our Creator sent us His Word/Message of Truth via telepathy, the language of all spiritual Beings of Light. The language which has been forgotten here on Earth over the past 6000 years, as more and more we've been conned into believing the lie that "we are only human (flesh) after all", instead of remembering and realizing we are the Being part of the human+Being.

When we stopped listening to Him, He sent visions to the Prophets, and His Law to Moses, so it could be read aloud verbally three times a year at scheduled f(e)asts, so His Word (Message of Truth) would reach everyone.

When we stopped listening to the verbal Word, our Creator had His written Word (Message of Truth) copied, so that we would have His Word in writing (Scripture).

When we stopped reading or listening to His Word (Message of Truth), He sent His Eldest/Firstborn Son to serve as The flesh and blood Example to teach us how each of us NEED to be.

We've had all of this information now for roughly 2000 years, and, thanks to the printing press the past 500 years have seen the Word (Message of Truth) spread throughout the world so that today, no one has any excuse for not reading and studying it, asking our Creator for His Guidance in understanding its simple, spiritual message.

Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority have chosen instead to listen to and believe satanic priests, pastors, rabbis and imams, etc., all of whom are condemned throughout Scripture, instead of believing and obeying our Creator and His Perfect Law of Liberty. A Law that prohibits theft in all of its forms, for everyone's benefit (to teach us humility and unselfishness).

Why think those 2 things are separate ?
https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/favourite-non-abrahamic-scripture-quotes.6654/post-531101

From the King of kings' Bible, in the Gospel of Thomas:-

Thomas 2:8 In the days when you devoured the dead, you made it seem alive; when you come into Light, what will you do? On the day when you were one (human-being) you became two (human+Being). But when you have become two what will you do? (see 4:10)

Thomas 4:10 They said to Him: Shall we then, being children, enter The Kingdom? Jesus said to them: When you make the two one, and when you make the inner (the Being) as the outer (the human) and the outer (human) as the inner (Being) and the below (you) as the above (God), and when you make the male and the female into a single one, so that the male will not be male and the female not be female, when you make eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in the place of a hand, and a foot in the place of a foot, and an image in the place of an image, . . . . . . . . . . . . . THEN shall you enter The Kingdom.

Unless someone realizes that they are a spiritual Being of Light (Soul) that is temporarily incarnated inside of the human animal body they see in the mirror, how can they ever overcome the temptations of the human flesh? Only when the spiritual-Being is in control of the flesh can the human+Being begin to do our Creator's Will, which is to treat everyone with love and respect according to His Law, for everyone's individual and our collective benefit.

People that don't know what they're talking about carry on about two thrones or three thrones, and two or three gods in one god, or how it's all a "mystery", even though we are told we MUST get to know the ONE True God and His Messenger/Angel/Firstborn Son, whom God sent to be our Teacher, Saviour and King.

 

[A Freeman]

Jesus WAS the mortal human son of the virgin Mary, born here on Earth in Bethlehem. Jesus is also a title which means "Saviour" or, more specifically, "YHWH Saves". It was Jesus that was sacrificed via crucifixion, and it was God the Father Who raised the dead body of Jesus after 3 days and 3 nights. This is why Jesus was referred to repeatedly as "the Son of Man".

Christ IS the immortal spiritual-Being that God created during His FIRST act of creation, before the world was. Hence Christ's designation as "the Son of God". Christ is also a title, which means "The Anointed One", just as the Hebrew title "Messiah" does.

While Christ suffered the agony of the cross while inside the body of Jesus, it is impossible for humans to kill an immortal, extra-terrestrial spiritual Being ("I am NOT OF THIS WORLD").

When Christ incarnated the body of Jesus 2000 years ago They together became the human+Being we refer to as Jesus+Christ.

Christ's real name in heaven is Michael, which means "Who is LIKE God?", being made in the express IMAGE (likeness) of God.

And, as Christ prophesied, He is here NOW, in a new body, with a NEW NAME (Eli-JAH -- Malachi 4:5).

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the communities; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden Manna, and will give him a white stone, and IN the stone (little book - Rev. 10:7-10) a NEW name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it].

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in The Temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my NEW name.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a NAME written, that NO man knew, but HE himself (ch. 2:17; 3:12).

 

[TokiEl]

Abstinence from certain foods is biblical.

1 Tim 4 1Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, 2influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron.

3They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from certain foods that God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.



And here you are phipps talking about abstinence from certain foods.

The Holy spirit expressly stated that in later times those who will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from certain foods... have ______ the faith.

It is not i who said this but the Spirit of God.

So who are you listening to ? Is it Walter ?

 

[TokiEl]

The world was quite well formed when Krishna was alive. He lived from 3228 BCE and departed in 3102 BCE.

Yea there are lots of gods in india.

 

[phipps]

Biblically no one has seen or spoken to the Father.

John 1:18, "No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him."

John 5:37, "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form."

John 6:46, "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father."

The above verses seem contradictory because for example we do read about God speaking to Moses face to face on more than one occasion and others too:

Exodus 33:11, "So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle."

Exodus 24:9-11, "Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity. But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank."

Numbers 12:6-8, "Then He said, “Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream. Not so with My servant Moses; He is faithful in all My house. I speak with him face to face, Even plainly, and not in dark sayings; And he sees the form of the Lord. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant Moses?”

John 9:29, "We know that God spoke to Moses; as for this fellow, we do not know where He is from.”

In these passages, we see that God communicated directly with Moses, who was the leader of God’s people, and also with Aaron, his two sons, and the 70 elders of Israel. We also know that Moses was in direct communication with God when he received the Ten Commandments. God also spoke and was seen by other prophets and patriarchs in the Bible.

We may begin to understand how all this is possible from Jesus’ response when Phillip said to Him, “Show us the Father” (John 14:8). Jesus’ answer is recorded in verses 9 and 10, "Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works." From these verses, we understand that Jesus represents the Father, and Jesus is God. So when it says that God spoke to Moses or to Abraham and others, we understand that it was Jesus. Whenever God communicated with anyone especially in the Old Testament, it was always Jesus the Son, not the Father. For no man has ever seen or spoken to the Father at any time.

Some Christians think that Jesus waited 4,000 years to personally intervene in the affairs of man. Not so! Though it is true that the incarnation occurred 4,000 years after man's fall, God the Son has been personally involved in the history and affairs of His people. This is why Jesus said; "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad" (John 8:56). Jesus appeared personally to Abraham when the Patriarch interceded for Lot (Genesis 18:26).

What a wonderful truth that Jesus, God's eternal Son, has ever been actively occupied in watching over, providing for, and protecting His children! He spoke face to face with Abraham and Moses and wrestled with Jacob. He led the Israelites through the wilderness, providing food and water and victory against their enemies.