Who is Jesus Christ ?

[TokiEl]

Alright,God spoke to Jesus that only time at His baptism but not to any other human at any other time.

Well this was at His transfiguration so then it's at least two times in the NT.

Who's speaking here ?

Exodus 23 20“Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him

The way the Father communicates to us is through Jesus Christ. All the other times in both testaments its always been Jesus.

John 14 23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.


You have a tendency to type in absolutes about things you don't know much about.

 

[phipps]

Well this was at His transfiguration so then it's at least two times in the NT.

Who's speaking here ?

Exodus 23 20“Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him



John 14 23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.


You have a tendency to type in absolutes about things you don't know much about.

In Exodus 23:20 it was Jesus speaking. It was always Jesus who communicated with people in the Old testament. Plus the Angel (they use a capital A) is also Jesus.

You're taking John 14:23 out of context. In verses 8-10 we read, "Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works."

Jesus is the Father is there too but its Jesus who tells us what the Father has authorised Him to do. There is so much scripture that testifies to that.

The transfiguaration was the Father speaking to Jesus and He said the same Words, He said at His baptism.

 

[TokiEl]

In Exodus 23:20 it was Jesus speaking. It was always Jesus who communicated with people in the Old testament. Plus the Angel (they use a capital A) is also Jesus.

Exodus 23 20“Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him


Listen if the being who would become known as Jesus is the Angel here... then who is saying that he will send Him ?

Who is saying that His name is in that Angel ?

 

[phipps]

Exodus 23 20“Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him


Listen if the being who would become known as Jesus is the Angel here... then who is saying that he will send Him ?

Who is saying that His name is in that Angel ?

Jesus. Because His name was in the Angel and He was the Angel.

 

[TokiEl]

Jesus.

Exodus 23 20“Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him.


If you don't see that there are two persons here... one speaking and the other an Angel then i can't help you.

 

[phipps]

Exodus 23 20“Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him.


If you don't see that there are two persons here... one speaking and the other an Angel then i can't help you.

There is actually one Person speaking. The Angel does not speak. Jesus is telling the people to beware and obey the Angel.

 

[TokiEl]

There is actually one Person speaking. The Angel does not speak. Jesus is telling the people to beware and obey the Angel.

I said there are two persons...i didn't say anything about the Angel speaking.


Exodus 33 2And I will send My Angel before you, and I will drive out the Canaanite and the Amorite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. 3Go up to a land flowing with milk and honey; for I will not go up in your midst, lest I consume you on the way, for you are a stiff-necked people.”


Again it's not hard to understand there are two persons here... one speaking and the other His Angel.

 

[Artful Revealer]

He's the messenger of God, but people like to overcomplicate things and say how he's God in human flesh, and when he was born on earth, he had no idea that he was God until he reached the age of reason and came to the conclusion that he's actually God, but nevermind the fact that he said that His Father is bigger than him. Let's just pretend that the Bible never described Jesus praying to God and so on and on...
Hilarious.

Of course the Father is greater than His incarnation in a lower realm. How is this an objection?

And Jesus became the Christ at His baptism (age 30), when the Holy Spirit descended on Him.

 

[TokiEl]

Matthew 22 41While the Pharisees were assembled, Jesus questioned them:

42“What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is He?”

“David’s,” they answered.

43Jesus said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord’? For he says:

44‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand until I put Your enemies under Your feet.” ’

45So if David calls Him ‘Lord,’ how can He be David’s son?”




Who are the two Lords sitting side by side ?

 

[phipps]

I said there are two persons...i didn't say anything about the Angel speaking.


Exodus 33 2And I will send My Angel before you, and I will drive out the Canaanite and the Amorite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. 3Go up to a land flowing with milk and honey; for I will not go up in your midst, lest I consume you on the way, for you are a stiff-necked people.”


Again it's not hard to understand there are two persons here... one speaking and the other His Angel.

Sorry I misunderstood what you wrote because I was busy. But Jesus be talking about Himself. He is telling the Israelites that He will be with them in the wilderness the whole time.

Jesus said, "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form" (John 5:37). It was always Jesus communicating with people in the Old Testament not God the Father. So says Jesus Himself.

 

[phipps]

Matthew 22 41While the Pharisees were assembled, Jesus questioned them:

42“What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is He?”

“David’s,” they answered.

43Jesus said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord’? For he says:

44‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand until I put Your enemies under Your feet.” ’

45So if David calls Him ‘Lord,’ how can He be David’s son?”

Who are the two Lords sitting side by side ?

There is no direct communication with God the Father and humans in these verses.

 

[TokiEl]

Sorry I misunderstood what you wrote because I was busy. But Jesus be talking about Himself. He is telling the Israelites that He will be with them in the wilderness the whole time.

Jesus be talking about himself ?

Exodus 33 2And I will send My Angel before you, and I will drive out the Canaanite and the Amorite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. 3Go up to a land flowing with milk and honey; for I will not go up in your midst, lest I consume you on the way, for you are a stiff-necked people.”

Jesus said, "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form" (John 5:37). It was always Jesus communicating with people in the Old Testament not God the Father. So says Jesus Himself.

Yes so could it be that the ones Jesus was speaking to had never seen nor heard the Father.

 

[Alanantic]

He sounds a lot like Krishna.

"Whenever there is a decay of righteousness, O Bharata, and a rise of unrighteousness, then I manifest Myself. For the protection of the good, for the destruction of the wicked and for the establishment of righteousness, I am born in every age." -- Krishna

 

[phipps]

@TokiEl

Jesus be talking about himself ?

Exodus 33 2And I will send My Angel before you, and I will drive out the Canaanite and the Amorite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. 3Go up to a land flowing with milk and honey; for I will not go up in your midst, lest I consume you on the way, for you are a stiff-necked people.”

Yes. He was the one communicating and always communicated with the Israelites. He was also the Angel who dwelt with them in the wilderness.

Yes so could it be that the ones Jesus was speaking to had never seen nor heard the Father.

Jesus did not specify that only those He was speaking to had not heard or seen the Father. All throughout the Bible it was always Jesus who communicated with man.

 

[TokiEl]

He sounds a lot like Krishna.

"Whenever there is a decay of righteousness, O Bharata, and a rise of unrighteousness, then I manifest Myself. For the protection of the good, for the destruction of the wicked and for the establishment of righteousness, I am born in every age." -- Krishna

I try not to think about what was before... ages after ages in yester yore ?

No i won't think about it.

 

[TokiEl]

Yes. He was the one communicating and always communicated with the Israelites. He was also the Angel who dwelt with them in the wilderness.

Exodus 33 2And I will send My Angel before you, and I will drive out the Canaanite and the Amorite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. 3Go up to a land flowing with milk and honey; for I will not go up in your midst, lest I consume you on the way, for you are a stiff-necked people.”


The speaker here is saying that he will not go with the israelites but instead send his angel since the speaker would probably destroy them.

Jesus did not specify that only He was speaking to had not heard or seen the Father.

He was talking to people around him at that time...so why would he mean their ancestors ?

All throughout the Bible it was always Jesus who communicated with man.

Are you suggesting the Father is deaf dumb and mute ?

 

[phipps]

@TokiEl
Exodus 33 2And I will send My Angel before you, and I will drive out the Canaanite and the Amorite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. 3Go up to a land flowing with milk and honey; for I will not go up in your midst, lest I consume you on the way, for you are a stiff-necked people.”

The speaker here is saying that he will not go with the israelites but instead send his angel since the speaker would probably destroy them.

The Angel (with a capital A) is Jesus and He went before the people and was not in their midst for the reason the verse mentions. Its all Jesus because He is the One that dealt with mankind directly.

He was talking to people around him at that time...so why would he mean their ancestors ?

Are you suggesting that what Jesus said does not refer to us either since we did not exist yet? He meant all mankind and you know that.

Are you suggesting the Father is deaf dumb and mute ?

Of course not. The Father has other roles but they do not involve dealing directly with mankind.

 

[Alanantic]

I try not to think about what was before... ages after ages in yester yore ?

No i won't think about it.

So, God gave you a head so you could stick it in the sand? I've been shunned by many an ostrich. Doesn't surprise me.

 

[Wigi]

Are you suggesting the Father is deaf dumb and mute ?

No. He sends His Word

"He sent His word and healed them, And delivered them from their destructions."
Psalms 107:20

The Word was with God, was God and became flesh.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made."
John 1:1‭-‬3

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."
John 1:14

Phipps is correct there are no "two" persons at any moment, God is One. I know it is very counter intuitive (hence some would prefere Islamic interpretations) but what make us think God is easier to understand than the universe we barely understand ??

 

[TokiEl]

So, God gave you a head so you could stick it in the sand? I've been shunned by many an ostrich. Doesn't surprise me.

I don't bother about what was before this earth was formed.