Did Jesus really sacrifice himself for your sins?

[DavidSon]

Too bad we'll never know if it all actually happened.

True and I was reminded of this quote... as well as surprised it was from Edgar Allan Poe.

 

[Lyfe]

Muslims accept the old testament right? Still nobody has been able to explain to me why the blood of animals had to be shed to atone for ones sins. This concept of blood being shed so that ones sin may be atoned for is literally everywhere in the old testament.

So I will ask again. Why did the people of Israel need the priesthood, the temple, and the animals for the daily sacrifice?

 

[Lyfe]

Why did animals have to be sacrificed for the sins of someone else in the OT?

 

[Mohammed_123]

Muslims accept the old testament right? Still nobody has been able to explain to me why the blood of animals had to be shed to atone for ones sins. This concept of blood being shed so that ones sin may be atoned for is literally everywhere in the old testament.

So I will ask again. Why did the people of Israel need the priesthood, the temple, and the animals for the daily sacrifice?

the bible is full of blood sacrifices human and animals....blood everywhere ...

 

[A Freeman]

Reading this entry of yours is sadder than the others who openly reject Christianity. You have a outward form of godliness, but at best it is built on very weak sand.

Obedience to God and His Truth is solid Rock, exactly as Christ teaches. It is very sad that most of this world is spiritually blind to that FACT and thus attack it out of ignorance.

Please leave Jahtruth's false bible pseudo-translation, his heresies and personal delusions, and come to the true Jesus Christ. There would be great rejoicing if you - an EXTREMELY lost sheep was born again.

Anyone who sees everything upside down and backwards, as you obviously are doing, is in no position to judge anyone or anything else. That is why Christ COMMANDED His True Followers (His Sheep) NOT to judge others by any other standard other than by God's Law (Matt. 7:1-4). It is also why Christ COMMANDED His True Followers to go and make DISCIPLES of all nations, NOT "Christians" (Matt. 28:19-20).

Christ promised His Disciples He would be here NOW, and that His Sheep WOULD hear His Voice, and that is exactly what has and is transpiring, as the prophecies CANNOT be broken. It is your own arrogance/ignorance that keeps you from seeing this, which is why Satan can so easily use you to attack the Truth. Woe unto those that call good evil and evil good, as you have just done (Isa. 5:20-21).

Those who refuse to return to and LIVE by The Law, will die by The Law, exactly as it warns throughout Scripture.

Matthew 12:30 He that is not WITH me is AGAINST me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

If you have anything specific that you wish to peacefully discuss, please feel free to do so. If, on the other hand you wish to continue bearing false witness and using logical fallacies to call others (including Christ) delusional, then please cease and desist, as you are not only condemning yourself, but leading others to join you in The Fire on the Last Day, as Christ warned all "Christians" (Matt. 7:21-27).

All scriptural quotes are from the King of kings' Bible.

Peace be upon you.

 

[A Freeman]

I challenge any of the Jesus "followers" to make sense of the load of theoretical, doctrinal bullshit we classify as Christian theology:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_theology

Whether "special" revelation, the Trinity, Incarnation, homoiousia vs. homoousia, monophysitism vs. dyophysitism, atonement theology (substitution, satisfaction, Christus Victor, etc.) Christian eschatology, Resurrection, Eucharist... it's all unnecessary, foreign contrivances of a bunch of Latin egg-heads who had far too much power and time on their hands.

There was something totally inspired about the lifestyle of the Jewish Essenes in the early era: a rejection of animal sacrifices along with the Pharisee/Rabbinical model of Judaism, the choice of collective ownership, celibacy, and poverty. The first Jewish Christians and apostles at Qumran who collected the Dead Sea Scrolls were the exact same people- apocalyptic, nationalist, and hardcore spiritualists.

The Reformation actually occurred in the 6th century CE when the Quran was revealed through Prophet Muhammad. The asinine idol worship of the Christians, as well as the preposterous "oral law" and racial ideologies of the Jews could be put to rest for good. It's tragic that in their arrogance the white supremacists of Europe refused to acknowledge the original Abrahamic, balanced, sensible understanding of God and life. You can still see the modern-day Crusaders puffing their chests, digging their feet in even deeper- but they will be chased back by God again. I've read whispers that some of the papacy, after Islam arose, knew Muhammad was the 2nd coming of Jesus. They had a chance to humble and boy are we paying for it now.

Christianity is an organized religion that has NOTHING to do with Christ's True Teachings. So why confuse the issue by trying to link their religious superstitions to what it actually says in the Bible?

Absolutely agreed that the Quran was sent to reform the pagan Roman Catholic doctrines, most importantly the pagan, Babylonian "trinity" doctrine, which is found nowhere in the Bible.

However, just as was done through Roman Catholicism with what is called Christianity, the organized religion that calls itself "Islam" fabricated volumes of their own "oral traditions", known as the hadith, in direct violation of the Old Covenant, New Covenant and the Quran. Exactly as their so-called Jewish predecessors did with the Babylonian talmud, and the so-called Christians did through Roman Catholicism, with its catechism and other made-up doctrines.

The Quran specifically and repeatedly COMMANDS its readers to read, study, believe and follow The Law and the Gospel, that the Quran was sent to CONFIRM (not to contradict), and yet so-called Muslims make it a point to attack the Bible, choosing to believe the patently false claims of their spiritually blind imams (e.g. that the Bible has somehow been corrupted) instead of the Word of God. And front and center in their attack against the Word of God is their false claim that the crucifixion and resurrection didn't take place, because they grossly misunderstand ONE ayat/verse in the Quran, and willfully choose to ignore the dozens of other places in the Quran that CONFIRM the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, and that Christ is THE Example.

All TRUE believers MUST come out of their respective organized religions and learn to follow Christ's Example in every thought, every word and every deed. Christ came to destroy all organized religion, and return those precious few believers back to direct spiritual converse with our Creator and heavenly Father, Who is also Christ's Creator and heavenly Father.

 

[Alanantic]

ALL of us have earned the death penalty under The Law for the sins/crimes that we have committed (see Deut. 28).

That's just sick. Who'd WANT to believe that? I don't "sin". I make mistakes like everybody else. You "pay" for your sins when karma catches up to you, in this life or the next.

"All problems are the result of ignorance." -- Buddha

"All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man's power to put an end to them. God helps by facing man with the results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the healing hand of God." -- Nisargadatta

 

[A Freeman]

That's just sick. Who'd WANT to believe that? I don't "sin". I make mistakes like everybody else. You "pay" for your sins when karma catches up to you, in this life or the next.

"All problems are the result of ignorance." -- Buddha

"All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man's power to put an end to them. God helps by facing man with the results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the healing hand of God." -- Nisargadatta

What you call "sick" is actually perfect karma.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, THAT shall he also reap.

 

[Alanantic]

What you call "sick" is actually perfect karma.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, THAT shall he also reap.

None of us have "earned the death penalty". Life is a school. The body lives/dies. The soul is immortal. You are a soul living through a physical body; an avatar.

 

[Lizard King]

What if they have invented a way to imprison souls ? We have all heard of lost souls but now we must realize if lost souls exist it is likely there is a prison for souls. And while some people figure out ways to sell their souls and become rich what about the homeless who would be lucky to get ten bucks for their souls. And that doesn't even count pawnbrokers and the fact that our society is forced to worship usury everyday through use of credit cards. Everyone can debate this or that until the cows come home but one thing can be scientifically proven: the Chosen Ones are cheating us any way they can and will turn our blood into gold any opportunity they get.

 

[A Freeman]

None of us have "earned the death penalty".

That may be your opinion, but conjecture is not evidence.

Ezekiel 18:20 The SOUL that sinneth, it shall DIE. The son shall not bear the inequity of the father, neither shall the father bear the inequity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Life is a school.

Agreed. And one of the most important lessons in school is HUMILITY. There is no humility in mistakenly believing we know better than our Creator.

The body lives/dies. The soul is immortal. You are a soul living through a physical body; an avatar.

Agreed, up until the Last Day, when all of us will be judge according to our works (see: Matt. 16:27 and Rev. 20:12-15), in this human lifetime and every previous one we've experienced over the past 6000 years (and what we did before that, to be exiled here in the first place).

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell-fire.

 

[Lizard King]

Also let's not forget Jesus was also crucified which correct me if I am wrong didn't the Chosen Ones have something to do with that? My theory is that now we are all being crucified now regardless of race creed or color and the same people behind this are the same ones behind that. Same people different time.

 

[Alanantic]

Also let's not forget Jesus was also crucified which correct me if I am wrong didn't the Chosen Ones have something to do with that? My theory is that now we are all being crucified now regardless of race creed or color and the same people behind this are the same ones behind that. Same people different time.

I'm pretty sure there are no "Chosen Ones". It's all mythology. Just silly stories to explain what is actually beyond human comprehension.

That may be your opinion, but conjecture is not evidence.

Ezekiel 18:20 The SOUL that sinneth, it shall DIE. The son shall not bear the inequity of the father, neither shall the father bear the inequity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


Agreed. And one of the most important lessons in school is HUMILITY. There is no humility in mistakenly believing we know better than our Creator.


Agreed, up until the Last Day, when all of us will be judge according to our works (see: Matt. 16:27 and Rev. 20:12-15), in this human lifetime and every previous one we've experienced over the past 6000 years (and what we did before that, to be exiled here in the first place).

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell-fire.

I don't read your book. It's a bunch of priests putting words in God's mouth.

 

[Alanantic]

That may be your opinion, but conjecture is not evidence.

Ezekiel 18:20 The SOUL that sinneth, it shall DIE. The son shall not bear the inequity of the father, neither shall the father bear the inequity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


Agreed. And one of the most important lessons in school is HUMILITY. There is no humility in mistakenly believing we know better than our Creator.


Agreed, up until the Last Day, when all of us will be judge according to our works (see: Matt. 16:27 and Rev. 20:12-15), in this human lifetime and every previous one we've experienced over the past 6000 years (and what we did before that, to be exiled here in the first place).

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell-fire.

Your creator is words in a book. MY creator has no words.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I challenge any of the Jesus "followers" to make sense of the load of theoretical, doctrinal bullshit we classify as Christian theology:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_theology

Whether "special" revelation, the Trinity, Incarnation, homoiousia vs. homoousia, monophysitism vs. dyophysitism, atonement theology (substitution, satisfaction, Christus Victor, etc.) Christian eschatology, Resurrection, Eucharist... it's all unnecessary, foreign contrivances of a bunch of Latin egg-heads who had far too much power and time on their hands.

There was something totally inspired about the lifestyle of the Jewish Essenes in the early era: a rejection of animal sacrifices along with the Pharisee/Rabbinical model of Judaism, the choice of collective ownership, celibacy, and poverty. The first Jewish Christians and apostles at Qumran who collected the Dead Sea Scrolls were the exact same people- apocalyptic, nationalist, and hardcore spiritualists.

The Reformation actually occurred in the 6th century CE when the Quran was revealed through Prophet Muhammad. The asinine idol worship of the Christians, as well as the preposterous "oral law" and racial ideologies of the Jews could be put to rest for good. It's tragic that in their arrogance the white supremacists of Europe refused to acknowledge the original Abrahamic, balanced, sensible understanding of God and life. You can still see the modern-day Crusaders puffing their chests, digging their feet in even deeper- but they will be chased back by God again. I've read whispers that some of the papacy, after Islam arose, knew Muhammad was the 2nd coming of Jesus. They had a chance to humble and boy are we paying for it now.

Your post raises a number of interesting questions!

First - why doctrines? I think an understanding of church history and the heresies that quickly emerged (e.g. Irenaeus’s multiple volumes of “Against Heresies”) meant that clear Biblical thinking needed to be applied to almost every claim of scripture.

As to the specific doctrine of “substitutionary atonement”, that is a complicated way of echoing the many OT illustrations, from the Passover lamb, the Red Heiffer, the allusion of the ram that the Lord provided as an alternate sacrifice for Issac and many more.

Islam removes the sacrificial system and provides an echo of OT laws to promote a works-based righteousness. Cain offered the works of his hands in the form of a grain offering, which the Lord didn’t accept, while Abel acknowledged the consequences of sin and offered a life (as God had done to clothe his parents) and that offering was accepted.

There is none righteous. When I stand before God it will be as a blood-bought sinner and believer in Jesus, not in the works I have to show.

 

[Surley]

Why would I even WANT for someone else to pay for my sins? My sins are mine to atone for. I'm responsible for them.

"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path." -- Buddha

Probably because if you are a sinner you are separated from God. As a sinner you are not able to come before a Holy God. By your sinful actions you have put yourself in the position of being Gods enemy, you have sided with the luciferian agenda and will receive eternal damnation for that. For sure they are YOURS TO ATONE FOR .And the wages of sin is death. Spiritual death separation from God and being judged with His enemies. In HIS MERCY He has provided a way for you to escape only ONE... BY FAITH.. YOU CANT DO ANYTHING TO EARN IT .In what he accomplished on the cross. It was never meant for a man to suffer the fate of the devil. But by rejecting Gods Amnesty, You declare your allegiance with His enemy and will suffer the same fate. Those who accept his offer are declared sons of God and receive the gift of HIS HOLY SPIRIT SEALING THEM IN CHRIST and receiving the gift of answered prayers. And relationship with HIM where as the believer comes and spends time with HIM he begins to CLEAN HIS sanctuary. YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN YOU WERE BOUGHT AT A PRICE. He speaks to your heart through your conscience in some cases and some cases he just miraculously delivers you from sinful desires. ITS REAL. Only people he calls only those who seek will find HIM tho The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom .TIME is extremely short. Dont wait

 

[A Freeman]

I don't read your book. It's a bunch of priests putting words in God's mouth.

Again, that is your opinion, which you're confusing with evidence.

Over two-thirds of the Bible is prophecy, over 99% of which has already been fulfilled in exact and minute detail. Only a complete fool would look at that track record, and mistakenly conclude that the remaining <1% won't similarly be fulfilled in exact and minute detail, or that the origin of those prophecies isn't the very same Creator that is being referenced throughout.

That's a mountain of evidence which you're choosing to ignore, to maintain the illusion that you are smarter your Creator.

Your creator is words in a book. MY creator has no words.

We have the same Creator. Please, for a moment, consider the fact that words are only a means to convey His Truth and that freedom, justice and peace or MORE than words; they are perspectives as well as attributes of our Creator.

Peace be upon you.

 

[A Freeman]

Probably because if you are a sinner you are separated from God. As a sinner you are not able to come before a Holy God. By your sinful actions you have put yourself in the position of being Gods enemy, you have sided with the luciferian agenda and will receive eternal damnation for that. For sure they are YOURS TO ATONE FOR .And the wages of sin is death. Spiritual death separation from God and being judged with His enemies. In HIS MERCY He has provided a way for you to escape only ONE... BY FAITH.. YOU CANT DO ANYTHING TO EARN IT .In what he accomplished on the cross. It was never meant for a man to suffer the fate of the devil. But by rejecting Gods Amnesty, You declare your allegiance with His enemy and will suffer the same fate. Those who accept his offer are declared sons of God and receive the gift of HIS HOLY SPIRIT SEALING THEM IN CHRIST and receiving the gift of answered prayers. And relationship with HIM where as the believer comes and spends time with HIM he begins to CLEAN HIS sanctuary. YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN YOU WERE BOUGHT AT A PRICE. He speaks to your heart through your conscience in some cases and some cases he just miraculously delivers you from sinful desires. ITS REAL. Only people he calls only those who seek will find HIM tho The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom .TIME is extremely short. Dont wait

Agreed. While none of us can do anything to earn it, we all should be striving for perfection (Matt. 5:48) to show our appreciation for everything our Creator and His Christ have done.

 

[Alanantic]

Again, that is your opinion, which you're confusing with evidence.

Over two-thirds of the Bible is prophecy, over 99% of which has already been fulfilled in exact and minute detail. Only a complete fool would look at that track record, and mistakenly conclude that the remaining <1% won't similarly be fulfilled in exact and minute detail, or that the origin of those prophecies isn't the very same Creator that is being referenced throughout.

That's a mountain of evidence which you're choosing to ignore, to maintain the illusion that you are smarter your Creator.


We have the same Creator. Please, for a moment, consider the fact that words are only a means to convey His Truth and that freedom, justice and peace or MORE than words; they are perspectives as well as attributes of our Creator.

Peace be upon you.

I had the experience of being One with God when I was 4 years old. The following is exactly my experience. It only lasted a few moments but it totally changed my life. Reality is God's Dream. I became the lucid Dreamer. There was no scripture, no book or voice.

"Just as when you are half awake and can see a dream, and know you are dreaming, and yet are apart from it, that is how God feels this universe. On one side he is awake, and on another side he is dreaming this universe. And that is how you should look upon this world. Then you will know why he created it, and will not ascribe these dream conditions to your soul. If you pass through a nightmare, you know that is no more than a bad dream. If you can live in the world in that consciousness, you will not suffer. Do not pay attention to the passing scenes of life. You are the immortal Self (Consciousness) living only temporarily in a dream that is sometimes (imagined) to be a nightmare. That is the higher philosophy (and truth) of the mystics." -- Yogananda