What is spirituality?

Alanantic

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@Alanantic

I'm not considering myself religious but let's suppose that being Christian make me religious I'd like to highlight some of the thing you said


Question is why we accept an Authority rather than our own counsel when it comes to Spirituality? Simply because we're relying on the author of life's ability to guide us for our own good as He's himself a fully spiritual being who made our spiritual essence thus is in the known of our spiritual needs. We trust Him as He's leading us to the whole truth of the spiritual realm He made.


Religion is Obedience, that's right but obedience to a moral authority isn't a bad thing if it's the right thing to do. In comparison, would you say obeying laws in society is wrong and criminals are right to question the moral order?



I find the expression 'Blind Faith' faulty : the way i see it, you only have faith when you know you can rely on a truth. And when the truth you hold onto is rational for you, it makes sense that you have faith in the premises that comes with it.
For example when you see a complex algorithm on a computer we're not doubting it was designed/coded by a person who exist independently of that computer although you may ignore said person.
Well when it comes to God, we've rationalized that the algorithm of Life that is our DNA, genes ect was made/coded by an Intelligent maker existing outside of this material reality designed by Him as it couldn't have come to existence by itself. I know some just want to believe it can (without proofs so that means they have a materialistic belief they refuse to admit) or they talk about ETs instead because it may be unpleasant to admit God is behind all that. At the end of the day, scientists of the past were somewhat religious and it's possible to see their point of view when we dig a little bit. For them as for me, it is just reasonnable faith.


The issue here is that your version of Spirituality is void of the notion of Objective Truth. When you believe there is an objective truth, you cant accept 'lesser truths' or 'semi-lies' as part of the whole Truth.
If you trust Jesus saying He is the way, the truth and the life indeed it's very exclusive because you have to deal with the idea that not every path leads to God.


It's strange when you say Spirituality is logical conclusions and at the same time, you say it's questionning and staying 'Open minded'. A logical conclusion leads you to accept an objective/absolute truth which exclude any other propositions. If you keep questionning your Spirituality you can't say you have logical conclusions you can rely on, it's contradictory.
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32


In reality, most religions follow men rather than God but Spirituality without God that's basically making yourself your own god. So you imagine the spiritual realm as a sandbox in which you experiment stuff without knowing if it's safe or good for you while it well may be harmful and dangerous, you ignore what doors you're opening.


Religion has strict codes, various spirituality use mantras. Jesus told us that none of that leads to salvation though.



Pharisees were unhappy that Jesus didn't observed the sabbath. God expect discipline but Jesus taught us it's far from being compulsory
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27


Religion as it exist today is under the guidance of men and because a large group follow certain practices or nomalized some men made traditions, we assume it's what God commanded yet that's not how it should be. God seek an individual fellowship with those who rely on Him.

'But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.' Matthew 6:6
People believe what they want to believe.
 

Wigi

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People believe what they want to believe.


For sure people want to choose what to believe, but seeking and following the truth can't have the same value as going after deception.
Like when you're proposed two paths, the path of life and the path of death would you say both paths are equivalent or you'd rather choose the wise one?

"I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live"
Deuteronomy 30:19

I've met multiple persons having their own vision of spirituality and there was everytime this belief that if they just followed what they desire the most, somehow it would ultimately lead them to the right path and/or attract good things to their life.
But is it wise to say the right path and the truth can only be what I prefer or give credence though?
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
Jeremiah 17:9

I believe God taught us the importance of prayer because we're always in need of guidance. It's true for every facet of human life that we often need to be helped and even more so in a vital topic such as spirituality.
 

Alanantic

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"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
Jeremiah 17:9
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. And even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained. And even in the best of all hearts, there remains ... an unuprooted small corner of evil." -- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
 
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Sort of breaking my own rule for the thread, but at least I'm not quoting the bible, and it is relevant :). An excerpt from the article below:

"Giving to the poor is not about throwing money at them so they’ll go away and we’ll feel better. It is about entering into the life and needs of another person, sharing the burden, and giving what we can—whether that’s a loan or a gift, practical help, counsel, friendship, a coat, a pair of shoes, a job, or a word of encouragement."

The Spiritual Discipline of Giving to the Poor
 

Lyfe

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In Christ man is perfected. He came to destroy the works of the devil and undo what had happened at the fall when the nature of man had become corrupted by the sin code. People think of sin as an act, but sin is also a virus or spiritual disease that has spread into all men. Where do evil lusts come from? Where does hatred come from? Bitterness? Its like an infection that has taken hold of us .

We are most often referred to as Christians, but God also calls us luminaries and priests, the saints. The spiritual man is one who has been freed and delivered from the power of sin that he may walk in true holiness, purity, righteousness, and light. We reflect the image of God on earth. This is accomplished in Christ through the power and working of the holy spirit when God regenerates the human heart.
 

Alanantic

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Religion Vs Spirituality-Difference

Religion is Accepting Authority, Spirituality is Freedom of Choice
Religion is Obedience, Spirituality is Questioning
Religion is Blind Faith, Spirituality is Rationalism
Religion is for Close Minded, Spirituality is for Open Minded
Religion is Organized Belief, Spirituality is Logical Conclusions
Religions follow Designated Gods, Spirituality need not
Religion has strict codes, Spirituality has self made codes
Religion Forces people, Spirituality is self Discipline
Religion has Group Identity, Spirituality is Individuality
Religion suits all, Spirituality suits only Evolved
Religion is Single System, Spirituality Multi System derived
Religious people are Spiritual, Spiritual people need not be Religious
Religion is Religion, Spirituality is beyond all Religions
Religions may create Divisions, Spirituality is for one and all
Not all religions accept other religions, Spirituality embraces all
By birth one takes up a Religion; By birth you don't take up Spirituality
 

Lyfe

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May 11, 2020
Messages
3,639
Religion Vs Spirituality-Difference

Religion is Accepting Authority, Spirituality is Freedom of Choice
Religion is Obedience, Spirituality is Questioning
Religion is Blind Faith, Spirituality is Rationalism
Religion is for Close Minded, Spirituality is for Open Minded
Religion is Organized Belief, Spirituality is Logical Conclusions
Religions follow Designated Gods, Spirituality need not
Religion has strict codes, Spirituality has self made codes
Religion Forces people, Spirituality is self Discipline
Religion has Group Identity, Spirituality is Individuality
Religion suits all, Spirituality suits only Evolved
Religion is Single System, Spirituality Multi System derived
Religious people are Spiritual, Spiritual people need not be Religious
Religion is Religion, Spirituality is beyond all Religions
Religions may create Divisions, Spirituality is for one and all
Not all religions accept other religions, Spirituality embraces all
By birth one takes up a Religion; By birth you don't take up Spirituality
The problem is that man is not spiritual by nature. He is carnal. Only by the power of the indwelling holy spirit can mans heart be regenerated. This is the work of the holy spirit. God living inside man. Gods word says that part of redemption is being given a new heart and that he will put his spirit within us. This is what it means to be born again. Scripture makes reference to the old man and the new man created in Christ Jesus that reflects the image of the creator.

The problem is that people have no idea what the Bible acctually teaches. No idea what salvation js. No idea what happens at the moment of salvation. One is spiritually reborn. I am not the same person I was after receiving Christ and being born again and filled with the spirit. I have a new heart and I no longer am slave to or find pleasure in sin.
 

DavidSon

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Religion Vs Spirituality-Difference

Religion is Accepting Authority, Spirituality is Freedom of Choice
Religion is Obedience, Spirituality is Questioning
Religion is Blind Faith, Spirituality is Rationalism
Religion is for Close Minded, Spirituality is for Open Minded
Religion is Organized Belief, Spirituality is Logical Conclusions
Religions follow Designated Gods, Spirituality need not
Religion has strict codes, Spirituality has self made codes
Religion Forces people, Spirituality is self Discipline
Religion has Group Identity, Spirituality is Individuality
Religion suits all, Spirituality suits only Evolved
Religion is Single System, Spirituality Multi System derived
Religious people are Spiritual, Spiritual people need not be Religious
Religion is Religion, Spirituality is beyond all Religions
Religions may create Divisions, Spirituality is for one and all
Not all religions accept other religions, Spirituality embraces all
By birth one takes up a Religion; By birth you don't take up Spirituality
JMO but such dramatic generalizations seem untrue. Religion at it's best can fulfill all the attributes of "spirituality", while at the same time someone "spiritual" might be delusional and seriously unhealthy. In the above list we could switch the descriptions and they would still make sense (some with a bit of imagination). I get the point that religion has failed to awaken many of the people who claim to be but to cast a broad stroke over all religious adherents is misleading. For the most part religion and spirituality lead to the same state of mind.
 

A Freeman

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Messages
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THE DIFFERENT EFFECTS OF
NATURE AND GRACE.

(human) + (Being)

THE VOICE OF THE LORD:
My son, you must carefully observe the effects of nature and of grace, because they operate very differently, and the subtle distinction between them can only be marked by an enlightened man.

Everyone aims at what is good and makes some pretension to it in his words and action. That is why many people are deceived by an imitation of goodness.

Nature is cunning; it misleads people and tricks and deceives them, and always has its own interest at heart. But grace walks honestly and openly; it avoids all that has a look of evil about it, and it lays no traps; it does everything solely for the sake of God, in Whom it finds its ultimate rest.

Nature is not prepared to be put to death, or to be subdued and overcome. It does not want to be under control or to submit of its own free-will. But grace aims at putting the old nature to death, and it resists the desires of the body.

It is eager to submit, and longs to be ruled.

It does not want to be independent, but loves to be ruled.

It does not want to be independent, but loves to be under discipline.

It has no wish to lord-it over anyone, but is prepared to live its whole life and spend its whole existence subject to the Will of God; and for love of the Lord to accept, face humbly and overcome every kind of human temptation.

Nature labours for its own good and looks to see what advantage it can get from somebody else; but grace does not consider its personal convenience and advantage, but rather what will do most good to others.

Nature is afraid of humiliation and contempt, but grace rejoices when it suffers indignity for the sake of Truth, Justice and Freedom.

Nature likes idleness and physical ease, but grace cannot endure to be unoccupied, and gladly undertakes all kinds of toil.

Nature is eager to possess rare and beautiful things, and loathes common and coarse ones. But grace finds its delight in what is simple and humble; it is not repulsed by the repulsive, and it does not refuse to put on worn-out clothes.

Nature has his own temporal things, and is pleased by worldly advantage. It is unhappy when it suffers loss, and any slighting word can make it angry. But grace is concerned with Eternal things, and has no interest in anything temporal. In material loss it feels no distress, and when hard things are said it feels no resentment, for its treasure and its joy are laid up in Heaven where nothing ever is lost.

Nature is greedy, and is more ready to receive than give. It loves exclusive, unshared things. Grace is loving and generous; it rejects private advantage, and is content with little, thinking it more to give than to receive.

Nature inclines to material things and gratification of self, towards useless pastimes and travelling about. Grace gravitates towards God and goodness; it renounces material things, and tries to avoid the world. It loathes the longing of the body; it curbs the desire to wander abroad, and hates the thought of appearing in public.

Nature likes to experience outside comforts which brings satisfaction to the senses; but grace seeks its comfort in God alone, and beyond all visible things it looks to Supreme Good for its delight.

Nature does everything for its own gain and advantage. It cannot do anything for nothing, but is always hoping for something as good or better, some praise or favour, in return for its good deeds. It wants anything it does or gives to be appreciated. Grace does not look for anything in this world, and it asks for no reward except God. It only wants the necessities of this life in so far as they help it to win Eternal Life.

Nature is pleased when it has many friends and associates. It glories in high place and noble birth; it smiles on the powerful, flatters the rich, and applauds those like itself. But grace loves even its enemies, and is not pleased with itself when it has a crowd of friends. It thinks nothing of position or high-birth unless there is goodness there as well. It favours the poor rather than the rich, and feels more sympathy with the innocent than with the powerful. It rejoices at the victory of truth, not falsehood; and it is always urging men to "prize the best gifts of Heaven",and to grow more like the Son of God in goodness.

Nature is quick to complain of want and difficulty, but grace bears hardship without giving way.

Nature diverts everything to its own ends, it struggles and argues on its own account, even against the truth, mentally or verbally. Grace leads everything home to God, the source from Whom it comes. It does not credit itself with anything good or make any arrogant claims; it is not pushing, it does not force its views on others; but whatever it feels, whatever it thinks, it submits itself to the Eternal Wisdom and the scrutiny of God.

Nature is always eager to know secrets and hear news. It wants to go out into the world and have all kinds of experiences. It longs to be recognized and do things that earn praise and admiration. Grace has no interest in hearing new strange things, because all this springs from our age-long corruption, and there can be nothing new or lasting here on this Earth.

Grace teaches a man to keep his senses in check, to avoid empty complacency and attention, and to conceal in humility all that might be praised and admired; and from all that happens and in all he learns, it teaches him to seek the harvest of usefulness and the praise and the glory of God. Grace does not want itself or its doings talked about, but it does want God to be blessed where all His gifts are concerned, for He sends all His gifts purely out of Love.

Grace like this is a supernatural Light, a special gift of God; it is the seal of the "Elect", and a pledge of Eternal Salvation. It raises a man from Earthly things to love of Heavenly ones, and it makes him Spiritual where he was unspiritual before.

As nature is curbed and subdued, Grace flows in more richly, and the inward man is visited anew, and daily remade in the image of GOD.
 

Alanantic

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JMO but such dramatic generalizations seem untrue. Religion at it's best can fulfill all the attributes of "spirituality", while at the same time someone "spiritual" might be delusional and seriously unhealthy. In the above list we could switch the descriptions and they would still make sense (some with a bit of imagination). I get the point that religion has failed to awaken many of the people who claim to be but to cast a broad stroke over all religious adherents is misleading. For the most part religion and spirituality lead to the same state of mind.
Aren't all religions but your own delusions, and seriously unhealthy?
 

Alanantic

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Messages
1,384
The problem is that man is not spiritual by nature. He is carnal. Only by the power of the indwelling holy spirit can mans heart be regenerated. This is the work of the holy spirit. God living inside man. Gods word says that part of redemption is being given a new heart and that he will put his spirit within us. This is what it means to be born again. Scripture makes reference to the old man and the new man created in Christ Jesus that reflects the image of the creator.

The problem is that people have no idea what the Bible acctually teaches. No idea what salvation js. No idea what happens at the moment of salvation. One is spiritually reborn. I am not the same person I was after receiving Christ and being born again and filled with the spirit. I have a new heart and I no longer am slave to or find pleasure in sin.
You make simply being human a sin. I can't think of anything more blasphemous. We ARE spiritual by nature.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
 

Lyfe

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Messages
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You make simply being human a sin. I can't think of anything more blasphemous. We ARE spiritual by nature.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
Before I respond what is a spiritual being or person?
 
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Messages
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The problem is that man is not spiritual by nature. He is carnal. Only by the power of the indwelling holy spirit can mans heart be regenerated. This is the work of the holy spirit. God living inside man. Gods word says that part of redemption is being given a new heart and that he will put his spirit within us. This is what it means to be born again. Scripture makes reference to the old man and the new man created in Christ Jesus that reflects the image of the creator.

The problem is that people have no idea what the Bible acctually teaches. No idea what salvation js. No idea what happens at the moment of salvation. One is spiritually reborn. I am not the same person I was after receiving Christ and being born again and filled with the spirit. I have a new heart and I no longer am slave to or find pleasure in sin.
Are you going thread to thread, not understanding the OP and just proselytizing, Lyfe? :D As an FYI, my question is rhetorical. ;)

THE DIFFERENT EFFECTS OF
NATURE AND GRACE.

(human) + (Being)

THE VOICE OF THE LORD:
My son, you must carefully observe the effects of nature and of grace, because they operate very differently, and the subtle distinction between them can only be marked by an enlightened man.

Everyone aims at what is good and makes some pretension to it in his words and action. That is why many people are deceived by an imitation of goodness.

Nature is cunning; it misleads people and tricks and deceives them, and always has its own interest at heart. But grace walks honestly and openly; it avoids all that has a look of evil about it, and it lays no traps; it does everything solely for the sake of God, in Whom it finds its ultimate rest.

Nature is not prepared to be put to death, or to be subdued and overcome. It does not want to be under control or to submit of its own free-will. But grace aims at putting the old nature to death, and it resists the desires of the body.

It is eager to submit, and longs to be ruled.

It does not want to be independent, but loves to be ruled.

It does not want to be independent, but loves to be under discipline.

It has no wish to lord-it over anyone, but is prepared to live its whole life and spend its whole existence subject to the Will of God; and for love of the Lord to accept, face humbly and overcome every kind of human temptation.

Nature labours for its own good and looks to see what advantage it can get from somebody else; but grace does not consider its personal convenience and advantage, but rather what will do most good to others.

Nature is afraid of humiliation and contempt, but grace rejoices when it suffers indignity for the sake of Truth, Justice and Freedom.

Nature likes idleness and physical ease, but grace cannot endure to be unoccupied, and gladly undertakes all kinds of toil.

Nature is eager to possess rare and beautiful things, and loathes common and coarse ones. But grace finds its delight in what is simple and humble; it is not repulsed by the repulsive, and it does not refuse to put on worn-out clothes.

Nature has his own temporal things, and is pleased by worldly advantage. It is unhappy when it suffers loss, and any slighting word can make it angry. But grace is concerned with Eternal things, and has no interest in anything temporal. In material loss it feels no distress, and when hard things are said it feels no resentment, for its treasure and its joy are laid up in Heaven where nothing ever is lost.

Nature is greedy, and is more ready to receive than give. It loves exclusive, unshared things. Grace is loving and generous; it rejects private advantage, and is content with little, thinking it more to give than to receive.

Nature inclines to material things and gratification of self, towards useless pastimes and travelling about. Grace gravitates towards God and goodness; it renounces material things, and tries to avoid the world. It loathes the longing of the body; it curbs the desire to wander abroad, and hates the thought of appearing in public.

Nature likes to experience outside comforts which brings satisfaction to the senses; but grace seeks its comfort in God alone, and beyond all visible things it looks to Supreme Good for its delight.

Nature does everything for its own gain and advantage. It cannot do anything for nothing, but is always hoping for something as good or better, some praise or favour, in return for its good deeds. It wants anything it does or gives to be appreciated. Grace does not look for anything in this world, and it asks for no reward except God. It only wants the necessities of this life in so far as they help it to win Eternal Life.

Nature is pleased when it has many friends and associates. It glories in high place and noble birth; it smiles on the powerful, flatters the rich, and applauds those like itself. But grace loves even its enemies, and is not pleased with itself when it has a crowd of friends. It thinks nothing of position or high-birth unless there is goodness there as well. It favours the poor rather than the rich, and feels more sympathy with the innocent than with the powerful. It rejoices at the victory of truth, not falsehood; and it is always urging men to "prize the best gifts of Heaven",and to grow more like the Son of God in goodness.

Nature is quick to complain of want and difficulty, but grace bears hardship without giving way.

Nature diverts everything to its own ends, it struggles and argues on its own account, even against the truth, mentally or verbally. Grace leads everything home to God, the source from Whom it comes. It does not credit itself with anything good or make any arrogant claims; it is not pushing, it does not force its views on others; but whatever it feels, whatever it thinks, it submits itself to the Eternal Wisdom and the scrutiny of God.

Nature is always eager to know secrets and hear news. It wants to go out into the world and have all kinds of experiences. It longs to be recognized and do things that earn praise and admiration. Grace has no interest in hearing new strange things, because all this springs from our age-long corruption, and there can be nothing new or lasting here on this Earth.

Grace teaches a man to keep his senses in check, to avoid empty complacency and attention, and to conceal in humility all that might be praised and admired; and from all that happens and in all he learns, it teaches him to seek the harvest of usefulness and the praise and the glory of God. Grace does not want itself or its doings talked about, but it does want God to be blessed where all His gifts are concerned, for He sends all His gifts purely out of Love.

Grace like this is a supernatural Light, a special gift of God; it is the seal of the "Elect", and a pledge of Eternal Salvation. It raises a man from Earthly things to love of Heavenly ones, and it makes him Spiritual where he was unspiritual before.

As nature is curbed and subdued, Grace flows in more richly, and the inward man is visited anew, and daily remade in the image of GOD.
Some of this was interesting as it reminds me a bit of what one of my geography professors asked us is, "Are natural disasters natural, or do they become?". We need to work with nature because it has its' own agenda, which is why I smirk at Bill Gates and the rest of the psychopathic control freaks that are trying to have dominion over it. All I can say is "Good luck with that" because nature can not be domineered, no matter how what their minor successes might bring them in the short term, or how big their egos are.
 

Alanantic

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Before I respond what is a spiritual being or person?
Western religions are confused about that. Have you seen the movie "Avatar"? We are our soul's avatar. Our soul has entered a mortal physical body to experience life, which can't be experienced otherwise. Life is a school. You ARE a soul that acts through your wireless puppet. The body, the personality, along with its personal sense of self, is NOT you, and eventually dies. Your soul is timeless.
 

Lyfe

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Western religions are confused about that. Have you seen the movie "Avatar"? We are our soul's avatar. Our soul has entered a mortal physical body to experience life, which can't be experienced otherwise. Life is a school. You ARE a soul that acts through your wireless puppet. The body, the personality, along with its personal sense of self, is NOT you, and eventually dies. Your soul is timeless.
Yes I acknowledge that our flesh is an earthly tabernacle housing our soul and spirit. Does that in itself make us spiritual? Is that what you meant?
 

Lyfe

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Are you going thread to thread, not understanding the OP and just proselytizing, Lyfe? :D As an FYI, my question is rhetorical. ;)



Some of this was interesting as it reminds me a bit of what one of my geography professors asked us is, "Are natural disasters natural, or do they become?". We need to work with nature because it has its' own agenda, which is why I smirk at Bill Gates and the rest of the psychopathic control freaks that are trying to have dominion over it. All I can say is "Good luck with that" because nature can not be domineered, no matter how what their minor successes might bring them in the short term, or how big their egos are.
Everyone prosetylizes their beliefs and convictions.
 
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