“If God did not create evil then who did? Who has the power of creation in your universe?”

[Lyfe]

'the Word dwelt amongst us' isnt even something im arguing.
Jesus was the Word, no problem.
However the christians say the WORD IS ABSOLUTELY GOD, TRACENDENT, FULLY GOD etc..and they base it on 'The Word IS GOD'
my point is that this statement in John 1:1 is only said alongside 'The Word was with God' eg 2 contradictory statements...and the meaning behind that is to present both a logical left brain pov and a mystical right brain pov...and the key is in balancing them.
understand that God is not inside His creation...and yet God is in All things.
one is logical and one is mystical.

im putting you on ignore because you have nothing to contribute other than to whine. the fact you couldnt see the point i was making shows you're not worthy of my time anyway.

1) The Son and Holy Spirit represent the Macrocosmic and Microcosmic expressions of God ie His Immanence with the microcosmic being post-causal. The Son isn't just limited to Jesus, it is 'everything' ie 'in him and through him are all things'. The holy spirit is the higher self of all of us. It's our inner 'Logos' if you will. It's what connects us and guides us back to the primordial origin. 'the first and the last' representing our metaphysical descent and ascent.
Wisdom is a notch below the holy spirit ie wisdom comes from the holy spirit. We obv know that from Revelation 2, but unfortunely the 'xtian' world misinterpreted the term 'lucifer/morning star'. venus, the morning star, was only an external symbolic representation of inner wisdom. the rising of the morning star, representing how wisdom guides us out of darkness. that inner guidance/truth is from the holy spirit and extends to wisdom.

also, no, i dont think some random voice in my head is the holy spirit, in fact i never think of the holy spirit in that way at all.

A chaper in the Quran is called 'Surah at-Tariq'
the word Tariq means

Tariq - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

in otherwords it also means 'the door knocker' and hence is a reference to the holy spirit.

short chapter, have a quick read

86. At-Taariq - سورة الطارق - ( The Morning Star ) - Read Quran القران الكريم in English translation by Pickthal

86. At-Taariq - سورة الطارق - ( The Morning Star ) - Read Quran القران الكريم in English translation by Pickthal - SearchTruth

www.searchtruth.com

so in islam the morning star also means the 'door knocker' and is hence connected with the holy spirit..

Revelation 3:20 - To the Church in Laodicea

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him, and he with Me.

biblehub.com

Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

yeh 'higher self' is the best way i can describe the holy spirit, but at the same time i dont mean some new age demon or a random voice in my head.


2) The jewish messiah and incarnation of the universal consciousness which represents the Immanence of God on the macrocosmic level, hence 'God In Jesus' but only in the Immanent sense. In extention to this, not limited to Jesus but in truth, God in 'all things' since the Logos/Son is 'all things' as i explained before.

3) fulfill prophecy, change the world, guide people, give them the 'good news of the kingdom of heaven'. nothing different here than anything other than i dont believe Jesus is a deity. God 'in him' is a state of consciousness...if people chose to worship Jesus the person they were wrong, but if they saw 'God in him' in terms of his purpose, message, actions etc then that was paert of the mystical right brain perspective of perceiving God in/through things.
obv this is personal. ive had this exchange with some literalist muslims who get bogged down into the logical side eg 'so you can see God inside DOG EXTREMENT THEN? IN YOUR TOILET'.
like the statement 'to the pure allt hings are pure' it goes without saying, this is subjective and we cant see God in everything.

oh yeh, speaking of right/left brain, as i said it relates to the passive and active side (yin and yang) of the metaphysical too. With Jesus, he was passive before..the suffering servant. The active part hasn't been fulfilled yet.
also as an extention of John 16, Mohammad represented the microcosm side, the holy spirit brought islam, the Quran etc through Mohammad in fulfillment of John 16. As suchm Mohammed represents a microcosm of Jesus too. The passive side of Jesus is what Mohammad represented in Mecca. Then there was the hijra/migration to Madina. In Madina Mohammad became the conquerer/ruler. this is one reason why a lot of muslims confuse messianic prophecy for Mohammad because they dont realise that Mohammad represents a foreshadowing of Jesus.
I get that you dont believe this, but that's because you're unfamiliar and dont really understand the core theme represented.

likewise...in Daniel 2, the rock (Jesus) will destroy the whole image by striking it's foot.
Yet on the lesser scale eg the microcosmic scale..the rise of islam literally ended babylon, persia and the byzantine empire. babylon which prophecy said would be completely destroyed, still existed when islam came there was even a church there, but islam removed it completely. the persian empire was ended forever. any other empire from there was an islamic empire and not exclusively persian. likewise the byzantine empire was ended which, i guess you could see it as an extention of rome and even greece. The only one remaining which islam has been losing to is western europe and now america..which is the last remnant of Rome but the most powerful. This represents the end times Rome..which Jesus has to destroy.

Your interpretation of Jesus and the holy spirit defintely didnt come from anything conceived by your own mind. It was interpreted by someone else for you. This idea that one has to go through some hidden knowledge to get the true meaning of the Bible is completely luciferian. You are getting your theology from the serpent. You deny being taught by the new age yet you use terms like the higher self and universal consciousness to describe Jesus and the holy spirit.

 

[Bubbajay]

it has nothing to do with you. i was talking to @Daze
the creators/owners of the state of israel are a satanic/luciferian baphomet worshipping club...
but there are xtians who worship the state of israel and cant see it for what it is...
and btw, I BELIEVE in end times messianic israel. The ashkenazi one is an imposter shitting on messianic ideals though.

i mean even from a secular pov i can accept a jewish state, but one that literally deliberately makes fun of messianic ideals by doing the opposite, that's some sick shit i cant support.

'straw man doe, troll doe, apologiszlost doe'
stfu.
knob.

You're just a wannabe Muslim that much is obvious. In reality you're using Islam as a pretext to hate the God of the bible. You've rejected the gospel so many times in the past, God has finally rejected you. You've been given over to a reprobate mind. Who else would use "stfu" and "knob" while discussing religious things? You argue for the sake of argument online, because you'd get slapped around if you'd talk to people like that in real life.

 

[AspiringSoul]

If not believing in either the error of “Replacement Theology” or the opposite error of “Dual Covenant Theology” makes me an “xtian” then I guess you are being accurate.

Here are a couple of other xtians explaining why they see things the way they do….

Along with a song by another (no doubt) accursed xtian polemicising the popular anti-Semitic narrative…

im not familiar with those theologies btw but by 'dual covenant' do you mean like how the jews are under a mosaic covenant and yet christianity for gentiles was through a covenant with Isaac?
there were multiple covenants..and they had different stipulations eg Abraham 'the father of many nations'.

none of this was my core focus. I simply read how in Zechariah 12 it spoke of a remnant from judea who survived the onslaught (that was in the aftermath of the crucifixion/rejection of Jesus) and were God's chosen remnant.
I look at that and think 'well who are they?'.
i know the ashkenazi camp and the other shepardi/middle eastern/persian jews were people who left the holy land a long time ago. So we're looking for a group of jews by blood who remained in the holy land for almost 2000 yrs after the temple was destroyed.
i know there were several uprisings and expulsions too. so this camp remained there through all of it.

it is a perfectly logical assumption, that they were merged into a palestinian identity. palestine was christian anyway. St george for example was a geco-palestinian, he lived in palestine. so palestinians today are a mix of various peoples but amongst all of it, there's def jewish descendants in there.
the jewish apostles became christian, some of them had kids. where are they? even to argue that you're against a 'dual covenant' is absurd because christianity itself is a new covenant through isaac and not jacob.

so yeh, real remnant/bloodline jews chosen by God, are hiding amongst the palestinians..and are being killed. that's a perfectly logical conclusion. obv Rev 11/12 further cement that argument with the 1260 days and the children of Sarah 'seeking shelter in the wilderness' (symbolising their connection to islam) and now her children being killed.

this is not an exaggeration
it's palestinian CHILDREN, FIRST AND FOREMOST who are the prime target of the state of israel. they kill children, palestinian children.
every single exchange...it's the children

They Were Only Children (Published 2021)

At least 69 children were killed in the Israel-Hamas war this month. This is who they were.

www.nytimes.com

bury your head in the sand though.


this ashkenazi bunch which you worship, are the camp that were forced out, which means they arent part of any remnant (as per zech 12). this same camp is what the holy spirit called 'the synagogue of satan' fact. Furthermore, they are from the gomer camp which makes it part of the gog and magog. obv which side is satanic.

so for all your attempts to put the gog and magog prophecy onto muslims, ive proven you're entirely wrong.
so you basically worship gog and magog mate. enjoy it.
im tolerant with it until i get told this 'messianic ezekiel 38' stuff, then i gotta speak my mind and accuse you.
if you werent fucking with the bible, i would not have dissed you.

 

[Bubbajay]

'the Word dwelt amongst us' isnt even something im arguing.
Jesus was the Word, no problem.
However the christians say the WORD IS ABSOLUTELY GOD, TRACENDENT, FULLY GOD etc..and they base it on 'The Word IS GOD'
my point is that this statement in John 1:1 is only said alongside 'The Word was with God' eg 2 contradictory statements...and the meaning behind that is to present both a logical left brain pov and a mystical right brain pov...and the key is in balancing them.
understand that God is not inside His creation...and yet God is in All things.
one is logical and one is mystical.

im putting you on ignore because you have nothing to contribute other than to whine. the fact you couldnt see the point i was making shows you're not worthy of my time anyway.

When it says "the Word was with God, and the Word was God" its obviously explaining that there are differences in roles of God and the Word, since they are different, but yet the same. The Word "Jesus" is the Word that was used to create the world (let there be light etc).

im not familiar with those theologies btw but by 'dual covenant' do you mean like how the jews are under a mosaic covenant and yet christianity for gentiles was through a covenant with Isaac?
there were multiple covenants..and they had different stipulations eg Abraham 'the father of many nations'.

none of this was my core focus. I simply read how in Zechariah 12 it spoke of a remnant from judea who survived the onslaught (that was in the aftermath of the crucifixion/rejection of Jesus) and were God's chosen remnant.
I look at that and think 'well who are they?'.
i know the ashkenazi camp and the other shepardi/middle eastern/persian jews were people who left the holy land a long time ago. So we're looking for a group of jews by blood who remained in the holy land for almost 2000 yrs after the temple was destroyed.
i know there were several uprisings and expulsions too. so this camp remained there through all of it.

it is a perfectly logical assumption, that they were merged into a palestinian identity. palestine was christian anyway. St george for example was a geco-palestinian, he lived in palestine. so palestinians today are a mix of various peoples but amongst all of it, there's def jewish descendants in there.
the jewish apostles became christian, some of them had kids. where are they? even to argue that you're against a 'dual covenant' is absurd because christianity itself is a new covenant through isaac and not jacob.

so yeh, real remnant/bloodline jews chosen by God, are hiding amongst the palestinians..and are being killed. that's a perfectly logical conclusion. obv Rev 11/12 further cement that argument with the 1260 days and the children of Sarah 'seeking shelter in the wilderness' (symbolising their connection to islam) and now her children being killed.

this is not an exaggeration
it's palestinian CHILDREN, FIRST AND FOREMOST who are the prime target of the state of israel. they kill children, palestinian children.
every single exchange...it's the children

They Were Only Children (Published 2021)

At least 69 children were killed in the Israel-Hamas war this month. This is who they were.

www.nytimes.com

bury your head in the sand though.


26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
this ashkenazi bunch which you worship, are the camp that were forced out, which means they arent part of any remnant (as per zech 12). this same camp is what the holy spirit called 'the synagogue of satan' fact. Furthermore, they are from the gomer camp which makes it part of the gog and magog. obv which side is satanic.

so for all your attempts to put the gog and magog prophecy onto muslims, ive proven you're entirely wrong.
so you basically worship gog and magog mate. enjoy it.
im tolerant with it until i get told this 'messianic ezekiel 38' stuff, then i gotta speak my mind and accuse you.
if you werent fucking with the bible, i would not have dissed you.

example of how i role

me: John 1:1 doesnt only say 'The Word IS GOD', it also says 'The Word was with God'. Two contradictory statements. Why? the first 'with God' pertains to the left brain logical truth which relates to the Trancendence of God and is a passive path. the second 'Is God' pertains to the right brain mystical truth which relates to the Immanence of God and is an active path.

islam perfectly understands the combination of the logical and mystical perspectives and how they relate to God's Trancendence and Immanence. The key is to have a balanced view.
xtians deliberately ignore the former and only accept the latter. they choose 'Word Is God' to form the entirity of their belief, whereas a balanced person would understand both statements and how both are true from different perspectives.

when i say xtians are guilty of selective amnesia, am i showing 'disdain'? it is just a fact
Jesus: im nothing, i dont know the last hour. The Father is doing everything and knows everything. He just does things through me.
christians: we totally understand the difference between the logical and mystical and that is why we have John 1:1 presenting a balanced viewpoint.
xtians: 'iz God doeee'
come on, you guys do not deserve respect. dumb people.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

so for all your attempts to put the gog and magog prophecy onto muslims, ive proven you're entirely wrong.
so you basically worship gog and magog mate. enjoy it.
im tolerant with it until i get told this 'messianic ezekiel 38' stuff, then i gotta speak my mind and accuse you.
if you werent fucking with the bible, i would not have dissed you.

Who do you think the group of people mentioned in verse 8 of Ezekiel 38 are / will be @AspiringSoul ?

​

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people​

p.s. this is also highly relevant

It also comes with resources to cross reference and check claims:

Zionism: What It Is And Is Not - Sugar Land Bible Church | slbc.org

slbc.org

 

[AspiringSoul]

Your interpretation of Jesus and the holy spirit defintely didnt come from anything conceived by your own mind. It was interpreted by someone else for you. This idea that one has to go through some hidden knowledge to get the true meaning of the Bible is completely luciferian. You are getting your theology from the serpent. You deny being taught by the new age yet you use terms like the higher self and universal consciousness to describe Jesus and the holy spirit.

1) i shared exactly where it came from. eg terms like 'macrocosmic and microcosmic' may be new agey to you, but that is only if you're dumb.
they are a common theme in christianity, judaism and islam

2) first you told me that one only needs the bible to understand the bible (bit of a derp point)
i told you that you need general knowledge of history, archeology, geography, astronomy etc to understand the bible better.

now you're accusing me of 'hidden knowledge'. no, no hidden knowledge.
'mystical' is only referring to how we personally connect with God in our own heart..this is the right brain perspective. 'God in All', 'the single eye'.
3) higher self and universal consciousness are universal terms which im using because they're easier to grasp my point.

eg 'universal consciousness' isnt referring to some low earth bound level entity is it? it's referring to something beyond out comprehension. i mean even 'universal' undersells it when we're now looking t a multiverse, infinite universes and such. When i think of the primordial power and it's 'expression/immanence' im thinking of something beyond scope.
the primordial waters...that was ancient mythological language.
universal consciousness is just easier to make sense of it. i interchange with terms like primordial, logos/image/son, universal consciousness. i mean the same idea..the primordial ocean of consciousness...THAT is the LOGOS/SON/IMAGE OF GOD.

philo said it..and philo was the jewish philosopher who first introduced the term logos into jewish thought, linked it to the term 'image of God' and then metaphorically coined it 'the true only begotten Son of God' to help facilitate it into jewish society.

yet you're looking at some wacky new age hippy luciferian shit. no mate, luciferiance are low level in philosphy. their philosophy is built around the ignorance of xtianity's understanding of the nature of evil itself.

muslims are above that. honestly, you think you're going to tell me about new age? you think islam i tself doesnt restrict me far better than christianity could? islam is very inclusive and we have an entire sufi tradition over 1000 yrs old. you think i need new age material when i have sufism? i was linking you to madam guyon because i do appreciate he human experience.and shared metaphysical truths/interpretations.

Jeanne Guyon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

13 April 1648 – 9 June 1717
i think that's a bit too early for it to be 'new age' dont you?
not that she used the term 'universal consciousness or higher self' but she certainly did speak of the Soul as a river, making its wayb ack to the primordial sea...and that mate, is my type of language. i understand it.

does new age/luiferianism have a monopoly on, or did it invent terms like 'higher self'?
for the record, i only use that term again because it's easier to make sense of what i mean. 'our higher self' our higher consciousness.
THe SPIRIT and the Holy Spirit and above that, the Universal Spirit...to me they're the higher self.

the luciferians think demons are the higher self.

 

[Lyfe]

1) i shared exactly where it came from. eg terms like 'macrocosmic and microcosmic' may be new agey to you, but that is only if you're dumb.
they are a common theme in christianity, judaism and islam

2) first you told me that one only needs the bible to understand the bible (bit of a derp point)
i told you that you need general knowledge of history, archeology, geography, astronomy etc to understand the bible better.

now you're accusing me of 'hidden knowledge'. no, no hidden knowledge.
'mystical' is only referring to how we personally connect with God in our own heart..this is the right brain perspective. 'God in All', 'the single eye'.
3) higher self and universal consciousness are universal terms which im using because they're easier to grasp my point.

eg 'universal consciousness' isnt referring to some low earth bound level entity is it? it's referring to something beyond out comprehension. i mean even 'universal' undersells it when we're now looking t a multiverse, infinite universes and such. When i think of the primordial power and it's 'expression/immanence' im thinking of something beyond scope.
the primordial waters...that was ancient mythological language.
universal consciousness is just easier to make sense of it. i interchange with terms like primordial, logos/image/son, universal consciousness. i mean the same idea..the primordial ocean of consciousness...THAT is the LOGOS/SON/IMAGE OF GOD.

philo said it..and philo was the jewish philosopher who first introduced the term logos into jewish thought, linked it to the term 'image of God' and then metaphorically coined it 'the true only begotten Son of God' to help facilitate it into jewish society.

yet you're looking at some wacky new age hippy luciferian shit. no mate, luciferiance are low level in philosphy. their philosophy is built around the ignorance of xtianity's understanding of the nature of evil itself.

muslims are above that. honestly, you think you're going to tell me about new age? you think islam i tself doesnt restrict me far better than christianity could? islam is very inclusive and we have an entire sufi tradition over 1000 yrs old. you think i need new age material when i have sufism? i was linking you to madam guyon because i do appreciate he human experience.and shared metaphysical truths/interpretations.

Jeanne Guyon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

13 April 1648 – 9 June 1717
i think that's a bit too early for it to be 'new age' dont you?
not that she used the term 'universal consciousness or higher self' but she certainly did speak of the Soul as a river, making its wayb ack to the primordial sea...and that mate, is my type of language. i understand it.

does new age/luiferianism have a monopoly on, or did it invent terms like 'higher self'?
for the record, i only use that term again because it's easier to make sense of what i mean. 'our higher self' our higher consciousness.
THe SPIRIT and the Holy Spirit and above that, the Universal Spirit...to me they're the higher self.

the luciferians think demons are the higher self.

The holy spirit isnt something within everyone that waits to be connected with(the higher self). The holy spirit is the spirit of God. He is a person and is independent of man. He has his own mind and personality, emotions. He isnt there already waiting within people. He is given and must be received.

 

[Bubbajay]

1) i shared exactly where it came from. eg terms like 'macrocosmic and microcosmic' may be new agey to you, but that is only if you're dumb.
they are a common theme in christianity, judaism and islam

2) first you told me that one only needs the bible to understand the bible (bit of a derp point)
i told you that you need general knowledge of history, archeology, geography, astronomy etc to understand the bible better.

now you're accusing me of 'hidden knowledge'. no, no hidden knowledge.
'mystical' is only referring to how we personally connect with God in our own heart..this is the right brain perspective. 'God in All', 'the single eye'.
3) higher self and universal consciousness are universal terms which im using because they're easier to grasp my point.

eg 'universal consciousness' isnt referring to some low earth bound level entity is it? it's referring to something beyond out comprehension. i mean even 'universal' undersells it when we're now looking t a multiverse, infinite universes and such. When i think of the primordial power and it's 'expression/immanence' im thinking of something beyond scope.
the primordial waters...that was ancient mythological language.
universal consciousness is just easier to make sense of it. i interchange with terms like primordial, logos/image/son, universal consciousness. i mean the same idea..the primordial ocean of consciousness...THAT is the LOGOS/SON/IMAGE OF GOD.

philo said it..and philo was the jewish philosopher who first introduced the term logos into jewish thought, linked it to the term 'image of God' and then metaphorically coined it 'the true only begotten Son of God' to help facilitate it into jewish society.

yet you're looking at some wacky new age hippy luciferian shit. no mate, luciferiance are low level in philosphy. their philosophy is built around the ignorance of xtianity's understanding of the nature of evil itself.

muslims are above that. honestly, you think you're going to tell me about new age? you think islam i tself doesnt restrict me far better than christianity could? islam is very inclusive and we have an entire sufi tradition over 1000 yrs old. you think i need new age material when i have sufism? i was linking you to madam guyon because i do appreciate he human experience.and shared metaphysical truths/interpretations.

Jeanne Guyon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

13 April 1648 – 9 June 1717
i think that's a bit too early for it to be 'new age' dont you?
not that she used the term 'universal consciousness or higher self' but she certainly did speak of the Soul as a river, making its wayb ack to the primordial sea...and that mate, is my type of language. i understand it.

does new age/luiferianism have a monopoly on, or did it invent terms like 'higher self'?
for the record, i only use that term again because it's easier to make sense of what i mean. 'our higher self' our higher consciousness.
THe SPIRIT and the Holy Spirit and above that, the Universal Spirit...to me they're the higher self.

the luciferians think demons are the higher self.

Ahh! So we have a Pantheist here lol.

 

[Daze]

im putting you on ignore because you have nothing to contribute other than to whine. the fact you couldnt see the point i was making shows you're not worthy of my time anyway.

I think your the 3rd the block Bubba (least of those who bothered to announce it).

Kids been here like 5 days.That's gotta be some kind of VC record.

 

[Daze]

nothing more occult than the state of israel today. the masonic state of israel.
the Rothschild family own israel..and what are they?
baronesss philippine de rothschild

that's baphomet

look up images of rothschild parties...it is sick sh**.


@Red Sky at Morning literally worships these people btw. no exaggeration of troll attempt. he has a lot of threads where he claims modern israel, the one today, is the same messianic israel of Ezekiel 38.

so if you're opposed to luciferians, he thinks you're Gog & Magog camp.
that is also after knowing that the ashkenazi's are from the Gomer camp (mentioned in ezekiel 38)


see it's like this
to these xtians, the gay man is straight ansd the straight man is gay.

Have you noticed every trinny supports Israel?

For those with 2 eyes to see. Israel is all about the anti Christ.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Who do you think the group of people mentioned in verse 8 of Ezekiel 38 are / will be @AspiringSoul ?

​

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people​

i explained before. this 'state of israel' is jewish and mostly ashkenazi at that. it calls itself israel, but it isnt actually israel, it is judea at best.
furthermore, in your mind this is a unique theme, this 'gathering' but you seem to have forgotten that in the 7th century (literally in the lifetime of Mohammad), there was a jewish state that lasted as long as Mohammad's prophethood....quite significant isnt it? think about that for a moment. there was certainly a jewish state, a gathering and the beginning of a new jewish temple. so seeing jews gathered for what is now going on 72 yrs (there goes the '70 yrs' theory), it is def more than anything before it, but it isnt unique or necesserily messianic.

ive defended the idea of a jewish state, i dont oppose it at all. i just get irate when i see blatant anti-messianic trolling going on sand i think 'what satanic people are they to literally shit on the messianic principles? why are they doing the total opposite?' and it makes sense, all of what ive said.

the true identity of the remnant as palestinians who became muslim..real bloodline jews who believe in Jesus and follow God's law...and their children being killed.
the connection to the 1260 days part of prophecy both in Rev 11 and 12. This stuff adds up. the ashkenazi identity /gomer. The mystery babylon themes surrounding it with a huge jewish cabal of billionaires who raked it in through usuary and the mass murder of christians under bolshevism.

it's too much, honestly...wtf else can i say? it's so obv to me it is a satanic plot to destroy judaism. just like Zech 11 tells uis the worthless shepherd, ie the antichrist, the false one..will be raised 'in the land'. So by no means do i think the creation of a jewish state suddenly means it has to be messianic.

Here's some insight in Quran's chapter 17
keep in mind, this around the time the jews actually got their jewish state.

5. So when the time for the first of the two came, We roused against you slaves of Ours of great might who ravaged (your) country, and it was a threat performed.

6. Then we gave you once again your turn against them, and We aided you with wealth and children and made you more in soldiery.

7. (Saying): If ye do good, ye do good for your own souls, and if ye do evil, it is for them (in like manner). So, when the time for the second (of the judgments) came (We roused against you others of Our slaves) to ravage you, and to enter the Temple even as they entered it the first time, and to lay waste all that they conquered with an utter wasting.

8. It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, but if ye repeat (the crime) We shall repeat (the punishment), and We have appointed hell a dungeon for the disbelievers.

it was a reference to the first destruction from babylon. Then the return
Then we gave you once again your turn against them, and We aided you with wealth and children and made you more in soldiery.

then the roman destruction
So, when the time for the second (of the judgments) came (We roused against you others of Our slaves) to ravage you, and to enter the Temple even as they entered it the first time, and to lay waste all that they conquered with an utter wasting.

finally
8. It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, but if ye repeat (the crime) We shall repeat (the punishment), and We have appointed hell a dungeon for the disbelievers.

islam/muslims get NO say on God's relationship with jews..and whether God has Mercy on them,makes them a nation again..or removes them again.
you with me? based on this, ive historically supported the idea of a jewish state. both from a religious and secular pov, im open minded and tolerant enough to have zero problems with it.
i understand the muslim/palestinian arguments..but i think jewish people through the prophetic connection have far greater claim. in fact even the word 'palestine' is coming out of a pagan context as a form of trolling to the legacy of the prophets..
think about that man...it is insane how i really feel about it all.

to me, i basically believe jews should have it, and it should be true righteous jews..and i dont judge on who is 'righteous' as far as their personal connections with God.
however if i see them fuck with and butcher their own messianic ideals whilst claiming to be messianic or have guys like you labelling them as messianic, then i have a problem.
what is unfortunate enough, turns dark....and it is esp dark when they're constantly killing palestinian kids. when they're owned by a cabal of bankers and satanics, mass murderers etc. then it's fking dark and yet..it is the bible itself that sheds truth on it all.

i firmly believe this is the end times mysyery babylon era...and the jewish elite (not common jew, the elite, the billionaire club, the actual satanics. just like in the OT it was the kings and elite who were polythiests, the common joe wasnt to blame, but they suffered due to their leaders.

Ezekiel's ISRAEL is the true israel made up of the lost tribes of israel and the remnant from the jews who were chosen.
it is the same as Surah 17's reference here

104. And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.

i usually have said '103' so i got that wrong. it was 104.

im honest enough, that i even see how muslim translators/interpretors have often twisted this verse to not mean what it is meant to mean. so im not blind or biased.
end times messianic israel is On..but after mystery babylon and the antichrist.

'when my people ISRAEL'
doesnt refer to a state that calls itself israel but is only really jewish and even then we're talking a dominant 'gomer' ashkenazi bloodline camp.
obv it's referring to the real israel, the 12 tribes.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Have you noticed every trinny supports Israel?

For those with 2 eyes to see. Israel is all about the anti Christ.

nah, a lot of irish are pro palestine.
in scotland, Glasgow Rangers are associated with freemasonry and are pro israel and protestant.
the catholic club Glasgow Celtic are pro palestine in response.

israel isnt about the antichrist directly..it is mystery babylon and dajjal will destroy that, use it sas a decoy to con the world.
that's why muslims who are antiisrael, will be conned.

read Revelation 17/18 and Zechariah 11.

 

[Bubbajay]

I think your the 3rd the block Bubba (least of those who bothered to announce it).

Kids been here like 5 days.That's gotta be some kind of VC record.

The fact is I exposed him just as I did you fake muslims. Stop posting known garbage, and I wouldn't have to correct you so many times. Cheers!!!

 

[Bubbajay]

Have you noticed every trinny supports Israel?

For those with 2 eyes to see. Israel is all about the anti Christ.

Its hilarious you stooges want to argue with everyone, but the person who shuts your garbage down. I'm not surprised you all blocked me, but keep on arguing the same things with everyone else lol.

 

[seekinheart]

nah, a lot of irish are pro palestine.
in scotland, Glasgow Rangers are associated with freemasonry and are pro israel and protestant.
the catholic club Glasgow Celtic are pro palestine in response.

israel isnt about the antichrist directly..it is mystery babylon and dajjal will destroy that, use it sas a decoy to con the world.
that's why muslims who are antiisrael, will be conned.

read Revelation 17/18 and Zechariah 11.

How does Israel come into everything you believe. You talk about God's nature etc then mention the current state of Israel can you keep it out of one thread.

I don't know how modern day Israel once again gets dragged into ANOTHER debate about the trinity.

If this is how you come to conclusions no wonder your flat out confused and lost in regards to God .

Red sky at morning does not worship Israel you don't seem to understand Gods relationship with Israel at all. It really reflects your very disordered reasoning on these matters.

Muslims all seem to lean towards a theological rationalism, when understanding God's nature it seems to be a huge stumbling block to them getting to the truth.

Seem to do the same thing as radical feminist and rewrite history, reinterpret established doctrines and ideas, that have all been debated before and long since been established I mean you realise your arguments were long addressed by early church fathers with things like Arianism. You guys say it like we are deluded not knowing there is a history of theological debate on these things before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eyes.

 

[Axl888]

@AspiringSoul

It appears that you have basically made up your own beliefs in trying to conjoin separate and distinct theologies that just can't be reconciled together. That is pretty much what everyone else in the world is doing. They create God in their own image and fasten him according to what sounds right. A little bit of karma, a little bit of reincarnation, a little bit of Jesus, a little bit of Buddha, a little bit of ancient astronaut theory and you pretty much have the belief of your average person. Its religious confusion and made up belief.

Yup, he is very confused fella, very arrogant, he thinks he knows everything.

 

[Axl888]

example of how i role

me: John 1:1 doesnt only say 'The Word IS GOD', it also says 'The Word was with God'. Two contradictory statements. Why? the first 'with God' pertains to the left brain logical truth which relates to the Trancendence of God and is a passive path. the second 'Is God' pertains to the right brain mystical truth which relates to the Immanence of God and is an active path.

islam perfectly understands the combination of the logical and mystical perspectives and how they relate to God's Trancendence and Immanence. The key is to have a balanced view.
xtians deliberately ignore the former and only accept the latter. they choose 'Word Is God' to form the entirity of their belief, whereas a balanced person would understand both statements and how both are true from different perspectives.

when i say xtians are guilty of selective amnesia, am i showing 'disdain'? it is just a fact
Jesus: im nothing, i dont know the last hour. The Father is doing everything and knows everything. He just does things through me.
christians: we totally understand the difference between the logical and mystical and that is why we have John 1:1 presenting a balanced viewpoint.
xtians: 'iz God doeee'
come on, you guys do not deserve respect. dumb people.

OK, so why then these wise men (magi) mentioned in the Gospel (Book of Matthew) came to the young Jesus and worshipped Him?

Matthew 2:11 - And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

And after that, God came to them in a dream warning them not to return to Herod?

Matthew 2:12 - And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Why God let the wise men worshipped Jesus Christ? Why would God appear in a dream to these wise men who supposedly transgressed His greatest commandment. Instead of striking them down, He warned them? Is He not a jealous God?

Exodus 20:3-5 - Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Perhaps because to God (The Father), Jesus (His only begotten son) is worthy to be worshipped, because Jesus is God, because Jesus and the Father are one!

John 10:30-38 - I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And so my suggestion to you and to our other muslim friends who are curious about the Bible (i.e. Infinityloop, Nikon, etc.), be like the wise men, come to Jesus and worship Him, He is waiting for you.

 

[Bubbajay]

Have you noticed every trinny supports Israel?

For those with 2 eyes to see. Israel is all about the anti Christ.

I don't support Israel and I believe in the biblical Trinity.

 

[AspiringSoul]

@

How does Israel come into everything you believe. You talk about God's nature etc then mention the current state of Israel can you keep it out of one thread.

I don't know how modern day Israel once again gets dragged into ANOTHER debate about the trinity.

If this is how you come to conclusions no wonder your flat out confused and lost in regards to God .

Red sky at morning does not worship Israel you don't seem to understand Gods relationship with Israel at all. It really reflects your very disordered reasoning on these matters.

Muslims all seem to lean towards a theological rationalism, when understanding God's nature it seems to be a huge stumbling block to them getting to the truth.

Seem to do the same thing as radical feminist and rewrite history, reinterpret established doctrines and ideas, that have all been debated before and long since been established I mean you realise your arguments were long addressed by early church fathers with things like Arianism. You guys say it like we are deluded not knowing there is a history of theological debate on these things before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eyes.

i was talking to @Daze and the topic was 'selective amnesia' from these xtians.
bible says God created evil. that isnt up for debate....and yet it is because xtians dont know anything about scripture. they bend scripture, butcher it completely. that's all i keep seeing.

 

[AspiringSoul]

OK, so why then these wise men (magi) mentioned in the Gospel (Book of Matthew) came to the young Jesus and worshipped Him?

Matthew 2:11 - And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

And after that, God came to them in a dream warning them not to return to Herod?

Matthew 2:12 - And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Why God let the wise men worshipped Jesus Christ? Why would God appear in a dream to these wise men who supposedly transgressed His greatest commandment. Instead of striking them down, He warned them? Is He not a jealous God?

Exodus 20:3-5 - Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Perhaps because to God (The Father), Jesus (His only begotten son) is worthy to be worshipped, because Jesus is God, because Jesus and the Father are one!

John 10:30-38 - I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And so my suggestion to you and to our other muslim friends who are curious about the Bible (i.e. Infinityloop, Nikon, etc.), be like the wise men, come to Jesus and worship Him, He is waiting for you.

very easy to answer

1) There are terms used in languages that have dual meaning/application. For example the word 'LORD' can mean God or a high ranking person.
in hebrew there are 2 words, AdonAI and adoni, THE LORD (God) and adoni(lord). Yet in arabic there is only one word Rabb, just like in english, meaning lord. So in this situation islam adopts another word, syed/master for people and rabb only for God. Historically before islam, the arabs used rabb for men also.

the word used in Matthew 2

Strong's Greek: 4352. προσκυνέω (proskuneó) -- to do reverence to

biblehub.com

proskynēsai
it has dual meaning, it can mean to worship (as in as a God) or adore/pay reverence, pay homage to.
now an example of this is hebrew where again the word for worship has dual meaning

Daniel 2:46
Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell prostrate before Daniel and paid him honor and ordered that an offering and incense be presented to him.
another translation
Then King Nebuchadnezzar threw himself down before Daniel and worshiped him, and he commanded his people to offer sacrifices and burn sweet incense before him.

obv the jews have the balance there and don't confuse this and think 'omg daniel iz God doe' so most translations omit the word 'worship' and say 'honour' instead. The xtian translations however mostly emphasise the word 'worship'.

of course if you'd done some research you'd know better...but alas, you're a xtian, so research and common sense gets flushed down the toilet.

Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down [προσκυνήσουσιν (proskynēsousin)] before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you.



2) you are also guilty of selective amnesia.
'i and the Father are one'
is not literally true, since Jesus himself said the Son can do nothing on his own, it is the Father doing it through the son..
they are one in PURPOSE but not obv the same in power.
so much for 'co equals in Godhead' which is plain satanic pagan shit.