My Trump Questions

justjess

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Unfortunately you already are. When people with no insurance become ill and can't pay the bill what do u think happens? Hospitals and doctors have to write it off as a loss and jack up the prices for everyone else. Those losses are then passed off onto YOU through higher insurance costs and higher costs for procedures, meds, appointment staff etc even when u pay out of pocket. Usually especially when u pay out of pocket.

You would be paying less under a single payer - or atleast the average person would - then you are now.

You can't have a tone in text.

And trump sounds just like every other NYC conman. Apparantly that's impressive to people, to some in NYC because he speaks their language, to many outside because they don't know what they're hearing. It's practiced speech. It's just not typical politician speech. It's still a con.

I wouldn't come sell you a boiler using technical terms u didnt understand. I'd scream carbon monoxide and exaggerate the risk of you dying from it to scare u into buying a new one when u could really have held off a few years and only needed a couple pipes replaced. People make fortunes doing things like that. Trumps made a fortune doing things like that. It's just as underfooted as typical political shit. Don't any of u know any salesmen?
 

rainerann

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Historically, healthcare functions as a sort of charity. Today, people receive specialized education to provide hospital care, which changes the dynamic a little bit because these aren't just a bunch of people volunteering their time to take care of sick people. However, if we look at past examples of nursing care during the civil war and around that time period, I would hardly picture that these people were receiving any sort of consistent income for this service. It think it is this dynamic that is creating our present healthcare debate in many ways.

Healthcare today functions between two poles. The original position of a charity which is was established with and the new position of a career profession that requires specialized training and compensation for this endeavor. It is because of this that the solution should integrate a combination of all of these features. Healthcare is an act of charity that also has to compensate the people who perform these job duties.

This is why I think healthcare should be compensated by modern fundraising efforts rather than by creating a national healthcare system or a health insurance system at all. It should function as a charity within a community, but this charity should be created with a modern economy that can establish a more consistent process to receiving funds.

There are some good examples of this already. St. Jude is one of them who accepts donations in the same way that child sponsorship networks function. With these donations that they receive on a monthly basis, patients at St. Jude don't have to pay for medical bills. There are also several charity organizations that will partner with local businesses to offer the opportunity to donate when the customer is paying for their items. If every person donated one dollar electronically every time they shopped at Target within a community, how much money could be raised for the local hospital?

What we need to do is start establish a working model to raise money from the community to pay for healthcare that other healthcare institutions could share with each other or franchise. This is not the same as paying for insurance because you are donating money towards something in the same way that you would donate money to a charity. This is still a primary reason that hospitals function that many people don't realize when we are discussing the subject of health insurance. Where I work, we are nonprofit and have functioned for years because of the generous support of people in the community. We upgraded all the hospital beds a few years ago because someone in the community donated the money to the hospital. Insurance is a inefficient solution to an institution that will never completely be able to convert to being anything more than a charity and we have all forgotten this reality.
 

Aero

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If you get sick or hurt in America you are basically screwed. And it's been this way for awhile. And Trump will never go against the big banks, so idk what you all expect to change. We really don't have a choice in these elections. Unless a candidate is serious about dismantling the banking industry, than they are all the same shill.

I'm sure Trump will do everything he can to prove his ideology is different than Obama, but it isn't. I'm sorry.
 

justjess

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I don't think healthcare professionals should Be paid less. I don't think insurance companies or pharmaceutical companies or hospitals etc should be for profit. But I also don't think healthcare should be left up to optional charity and depend on people's whims.

St Jude's is awesome but they also treat children. Everyone has a soft spot for sick children. What about the addicts or obese people who eat McDonald's or the old guy who gets lung cancer? People aren't going to be so charitable to them and they don't deserve help any less. You would be setting up a system of worthy vs unworthy poor, even more so then we have right now. People already get pissed and all up in arms about any of their money potentially going to someone else's health care. Make it optional and watch as people die who didn't have to.

In a country with as much money as this, with the modern technology we have people dying unneccessarily shouldn't Be acceptable.
 

rainerann

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I think people would be surprised how often charity funds are used to provide care already. We have always had charity funds to provide care to people without insurance because it has been illegal to refuse treatment in an ER for a long time now. Long before the debate we have now, hospitals have been covering treatment for homeless people, addicts, and mentally ill patients through charity funds in addition to whatever minuscule amount that we are reimbursed from other programs.

Most of the time, the hospital doesn't have one face. We work with the entire community. Most of the people realize this at some point or another when they come to visit someone close to them in the hospital. I think it does dawn on them in moments like this, that anybody can become a patient in the hospital. That the hospital doesn't just serve obese patients and addicts. I have seen this light bulb go off several times so I know that it isn't an awareness people are born with, but it isn't impossible to assume that fundraising efforts would not be an efficient way of addressing the subject of healthcare that is an institution that was established as a charity.

If we can restore a modern approach to the reality, then we can remove insurance companies as middleman and an inefficient form of fundraising. What people need most is accessibility. People need a convenient way way to donate money and then when they are given this convenience that they are used to, most people are willing to donate to hospitals.
 

justjess

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People are more willing to donate to an injured dog on gofundme then they are to most people, it becomes a judgement thing. Do they deserve the help? Did they cause the illness? I'm sorry I'm so jaded about mankind but that has been my experience.

I'm sorry but I can't trust my medical care to the whims of strangers. My medication - just one of them - costs 100grand a year, one of my sons 1,000/month. There's no job on earth that would allow for me to just "pay for it myself" either.
 

rainerann

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I think people would much rather be given the choice to donate rather than be forced to participate in insurance programs they won't use, that also create enormous incomes for insurance companies, which prevents a lot of the money paid to them from ever benefiting patients.

Basically, what Obama did when he created the affordable care act is mandate fundraising for healthcare by requiring that everyone be insured. So people who were in the income bracket where they made too much money for a state funded program, but not enough to pay an insurance care premium independently, are now required to help fund these insurance companies that they don't use. This insurance company is a healthcare money pool that many people will pay into for their whole lives without ever using. The money that the insurance company collects will be used to treat a certain percentage of the actual population it insures. The cost of healthcare actually exceeds the amount that any insurance company can collect to treat all their customers to the same degree of treatment. So an insurance company is depending on the probability that a certain percentage of customers will never need to use the healthcare system in order to function in any capacity. It is forced charity because healthcare is a charity in practice.

I would much rather give my money directly to a hospital when I know that won't need healthcare for myself because I am low risk at this point in my life, and avoid contributing to the salaries of insurance company executives who siphon off of this fund that should go directly to treating patients. Most people would actually do this. Where I work, we even donate money to the hospital we work in. I have donated money to the same hospital that pays me for the work I do there for about five years now. A good number of the people I work with do this because they have made it convenient for us to do by automatically deducting it from our paychecks every two weeks.

So insurance already is a failed system of fundraising for a specialized charity otherwise known as the healthcare industry. As a result, the solution is to find better ways to raise money to fund healthcare.
 

polymoog

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People are more willing to donate to an injured dog on gofundme then they are to most people, it becomes a judgement thing. Do they deserve the help? Did they cause the illness? I'm sorry I'm so jaded about mankind but that has been my experience.
i would absolutely pay for the animal and not another person. as humans, we have domesticated these animals, changing their wild ways and instincts so that they cannot adequately hunt. we are obligated to help them as they are at our mercy.
humans dig their own grave. cheeto eatin`, soda drinkin`, newport smokin` people have zero sympathy from me when they develop problems. theyve had every opportunity to wake up and research-- its not like the internet isnt available for them. i dont believe in western drugs. that never works to solve any health crisis. healthy living starts with ones diet, so health insurance, to me, is total bullshit, and i will never ever have it.
hospitals should only be for physical/mechanical injuries to the body.
 

rainerann

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That is really unfortunate that you feel that way about helping the sick. They deserve help more often than not. I was trying to look up an article on the history of cancer patients who were left homeless because their families couldn't take care of them around the turn of the century. There was a lady who started a ministry to help these patients and created a homeless shelter for them.

Unfortunately, doing this made me realize that this issue is still a prevalent reality. This reality does further support my argument that treatment for the sick needs to be treated as a charity. Still, it is disappointing to learn.

Here is an article about cancer patients who are homeless from the Guardian. An article by Modern Healthcare says that hospitals are trying to partner with respites to create long term solution for homeless patients who are more likely to use hospital services than people who are not homeless because treating sick people is again an act of charity. The simple act of helping the poor reduces the overall cost of healthcare.

Homeless patients use hospitals at a much higher rate than housed patients, studies have found. A 2010 study found about 23 hospitalizations for every 100 homeless people in a year, compared with five hospitalizations for every 100 people in the general population. The average costs associated with a hospitalization for a homeless patient were $2,559 more than for a patient who was housed, totaling about $13,500 for the average stay. The average hospital stay for homeless patients was four days longer on average.
http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20140322/MAGAZINE/303229937

Not to mention that most people who use the healthcare system who are not homeless are elderly. We are obviously obligated to try to take care of the elderly. In all of these examples, people are put in the position where they are helpless to take care of themselves. People who work with patients and do patient care understand this. People who work in health insurance do not. We need to get rid of the middle man. People would be better off giving the money directly to hospitals and services that provide healthcare to the community.
Furthermore, this would also help create an incentive for people to realize the cost of healthcare. Some businesses are creating insurance accounts already that focus on educating their employees about being a healthcare consumer because some part of the population also feels that having insurance basically means things are free and they are not. Whole Foods was an example of this. They have some sort of spending accounts they offer their employees.

So we do need to find ways to spend money responsibly within healthcare, but people also need to recognize that healthcare is a specialized form of charity and we need to provide more opportunities for people to give the same way they would give to any charity organization.

Needless, to say, I didn't vote for Trump because I don't think he represents my views towards healthcare.
 

polymoog

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rainann:

if people are still going to the hospital for cancer treatment, they are barking up the wrong tree. the info to CURE it has been out for a long time now. if people want to go and irradiate themselves, go ahead. not my problem.
again, if people do not want to research things for themselves-- ESPECIALLY their medical conditions-- theyll get no sympathy from me. people live in fantasyland thinking that the medical establishment helps, or that doctors know what theyre doing. they, as a group, are human repairmen, and most of them suck. butchers and doctors wear the same white suit.

the medical establishment is a racket. check into it. the window closed at the end of the 1800s when local, rural doctors and home remedies were squeezed out by the law which required doctors be licensed (read: programmed) by the medical establishment. at the time it was meant to curb the snake oil salesmen (good thing) but like all of these laws with good intentions, worked against our favor. with the advent of licensed doctors, administering silver, for example, went out of fashion in favor of sulfa drugs and other crap that the AMA pushes.

are you familiar with codex alimentarius?

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/codexalimentarius15jan09.shtml
 
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on a totally unrelated topic, here's my stance on health care: I don't want to pay for anyone's but my own.
Well, that's a bummer. Never expected that of you. As for i, would totally give up my house and everything i own to pay for everybody's health.

No offense meant since i don't know you and polymoog's situations and experiences that would cause you to despise people as much.
 

polymoog

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Well, that's a bummer. Never expected that of you. As for i, would totally give up my house and everything i own to pay for everybody's health.

No offense meant since i don't know you and polymoog's situations and experiences that would cause you to despise people as much.
yet you liked my post.
go ahead and give up your house. who needs responsibilities to ones own health when others will pay?

dad, to daughters new religious bf:
'where will you live?'
'god will provide.'
'how will you make money?'
'god will provide.'
'how will you raise a child?'
'god will provide.'
'honey, did you meet our daughters new bf?'
'yes. he thinks im god.'
 

rainerann

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rainann:

if people are still going to the hospital for cancer treatment, they are barking up the wrong tree. the info to CURE it has been out for a long time now. if people want to go and irradiate themselves, go ahead. not my problem.
again, if people do not want to research things for themselves-- ESPECIALLY their medical conditions-- theyll get no sympathy from me. people live in fantasyland thinking that the medical establishment helps, or that doctors know what theyre doing. they, as a group, are human repairmen, and most of them suck. butchers and doctors wear the same white suit.

the medical establishment is a racket. check into it. the window closed at the end of the 1800s when local, rural doctors and home remedies were squeezed out by the law which required doctors be licensed (read: programmed) by the medical establishment. at the time it was meant to curb the snake oil salesmen (good thing) but like all of these laws with good intentions, worked against our favor. with the advent of licensed doctors, administering silver, for example, went out of fashion in favor of sulfa drugs and other crap that the AMA pushes.

are you familiar with codex alimentarius?

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/codexalimentarius15jan09.shtml
I actually take silver. It does work great, but that isn't really going to fix the whole problem. I have also worked in a hospital for many years and the majority of my patients were elderly. Insurance pays for treatment for dementia patients because we are not eugenicists who think the elderly should die because they are too old to know the day of the week. I have had quadriplegic and paraplegic and amputees, and diabetics etc., etc. Healthcare insurance pays for a lot of reasons poverty would otherwise be created due to disabeling conditions.

Cancer has also always existed. Either way, people in the hospital do genuinely care about helping people who are sick and they are best place to give our money to help those who are sick. Healthcare is a specialized charity.
 
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My point is, money spent on others is never wasted. Check out my signature too.

You'll never miss out on anything no matter what good you do. The more you do the better.

And then watch God Work Miracles for you.
 

justjess

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@rainerann i agree 100% the insurance industry and other middle men have no place in healthcare. It shouldnt be a for profit industry at all - and im not including medical staff salaries clearly thry need to be paid

But charity isnt the answer either, for ressons i hope became evident to u above. There are more people like that then otherwise.

Prior to 1974 health insurance operated similar to how you are decribing in somr ways - with money going directly to drs and hospitals to treat specific groups of people who signed up for something more like a subscription plan..

Or honestly like the maintenance plans we sell for home heating equipment as odd as that sounds. When it isnt so late i will explain better and give links.

@polymoog it is sad that you blame sick people for being sick and have no empathy for them whatsoevser. Many didnt do anything to "deserve" to be sick at all, just faulty genetic code or random chance. One day it could be you, no matter how much you think you are preventing it.
 

polymoog

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@rainerann

@polymoog it is sad that you blame sick people for being sick and have no empathy for them whatsoevser. Many didnt do anything to "deserve" to be sick at all, just faulty genetic code or random chance. One day it could be you, no matter how much you think you are preventing it.
thats correct-- no empathy for someone not willing to find a solution. i wont come down with a health illness. if i do, ill take care of it myself, though nutrition, fasting, or ayurvedic medicine. and ill do it without dipping into someone elses pockets.
 
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here you go, why not pay for this womans problems? your god says to close your eyes to her sin of gluttony.
If God Wills, i shall, why not? He Is The One Who Presents opportunities to us whereby we can either choose to take or to reject on pretexts.

Who's to say she's guilty of sin? Who's to say she's not just an angel specifically Created for the purpose of giving us a golden opportunity?
 
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