Prophetic Expectations

[DesertRose]

Interesting connections brother @AspiringSoul i will have to re-read and look up a few things.
I think the eye symbol was used in Muslim countries as an amulet against evil eye and jinn. It was considered shirk ( for non Muslims this means associating partners with the Creator).As you are aware the protection comes from the Creator not the amulet.
I like to stick to what the Prophet peace be upon Him did for protection:

A .Reciting the dua:Reciting “La ilaha ill-Allah wahdahu la shareeka lah, lahu’l-mulk wa lahu’l-hamd wa huwa ‘ala kulli shayin qadeer (There is no god except Allah Alone with no partner or associate; His is the Sovereignty and His is the praise, and He is able to do all things)” one hundred times.
B. Also,the last verses of Surat al-Baqarah (Quran)
C. Reciting ayat al-Kursiy (Quran)
D. Reciting al-Mu’awwidhatayn (the last two chapters of the Quran, al-Falaq and al-Nas).

For those who are afflicted with harm:
"Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to say: ‘Adhhib il-ba’s Rabb al-naas ishfi anta al-Shaafi laa shifaa’a illa shifaa’uka shifaa’an laa yughaadiru saqaman (Remove the harm, O Lord of mankind, and heal, You are the Healer. There is no healing but Your healing, a healing which leaves no disease behind.’”

(Narrated by Abu Dawood, 3883; Ibn Maajah, 3530)

 

[grateful servant]

For you and @DesertRose
Muslims are in the crosshairs aswell. This WaPo article from almost 20yrs ago: [When seeing and hearing isn't believing]

"But the "strategic" PSYOPS scheming didn't die. What if the U.S. projected a holographic image of Allah floating over Baghdad urging the Iraqi people and Army to rise up against Saddam, a senior Air Force officer asked in 1990? According to a military physicist given the task of looking into the hologram idea, the feasibility had been established of projecting large, three- dimensional objects that appeared to float in the air."

http://washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/arkin020199.htm

Except Muslims know without a doubt that no one can see God in this life. He the Most High said: “Vision cannot grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision.” (Quran 6:103)

 

[grateful servant]

I know the Quran doesn't reference the Bible, but what you posted namely

suggest that the whoever wrote the Quran never really knew what the Bible said about this topic in the first place, and that is that Jesus didn't ever say in the Bible that Mary should be worshipped as a god.

I have read parts of the Quran, and what I found was many stories that coincide with the apocrypha and other legends or oral traditions, when I went into the past of how the Quran was written and assembled it troubled me that it was little bits and pieces here and there from different people unlike the thousands upon thousands of meticulously copied scrolls of the Bible.

And have you even seen what I wrote about the Bible's amazing heptadic structure? This heptadic structure is also found in Paul's letters.....

The Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad from the Angel Gabriel who received it from Almighty God. The Prophet memorized it by heart as did (and do) the Muslims. He dictated it to his scribes and so not only was it perfectly preserved in the hearts of thousands, but it was preserved in writing as well.

Unlike the hundreds of versions of the bible available to us today, there is only one Quran, preserved in its original language (Arabic) and read and memorized by people of every tongue and nationality around the world. The Quran that I read in the US is the same one Haich reads in UK, DR and KF read in Canada, Manama reads in Pakistan, (ALSO GIF IN MAURITIUS) and the Muslims in your country as well - even, in most cases, down to the page number! A true miracle and blessing from our Creator - your Creator, the Almighty God.

You are mistaken about that Quranic verse dear Camidria - there is nothing in it which suggests Jesus said it in the Bible. Nothing at all. Perhaps you assume that because you don't believe anything truthful about Jesus could be mentioned in any other book but the Bible.

@Karlysymon asked me to provide other biblical verses that foretell of Muhammad, the Quran and Islam, and your saying " little bits and pieces here and there " just reminded me of another one:

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

I've never heard of heptadic structure before but thanks for mentioning it - I'll look into it insha'Allah. Peace.
EDIT: As one who approaches numerology with a healthy dose of skepticism, I looked into your claim and dug a little further to find this: http://www.bible-prophecy.com/codes.htm From the link: Code Breaker April, 1997 - Guy Cramer discusses a refutation of the topic by Professor of Hebrew, Dr. James Price, and concludes:
The Bible ELS Codes go the way of Cold Fusion
The conclusions of Dr Price's research should end any further research, books, movies, t.v. shows and articles... into the ELS phenomenon. God did not hide ELS codes in the Bible. The ELS codes do not prove divine authorship of the Hebrew Bible. This phenomenon will occur in all texts and all literature. It is just a strange random phenomenon.


EDIT 1: Corrected some Muslim members geographical locations
EDIT 2: Acknowledging the difference between heptadic structure and other numeric codes

 

[Camidria]

I've never heard of heptadic structure before but thanks for mentioning it - I'll look into it insha'Allah. Peace.
EDIT: As one who approaches numerology with a healthy dose of skepticism, I looked into your claim and dug a little further to find this: http://www.bible-prophecy.com/codes.htm From the link: Code Breaker April, 1997 - Guy Cramer discusses a refutation of the topic by Professor of Hebrew, Dr. James Price, and concludes:
The Bible ELS Codes go the way of Cold Fusion
The conclusions of Dr Price's research should end any further research, books, movies, t.v. shows and articles... into the ELS phenomenon. God did not hide ELS codes in the Bible. The ELS codes do not prove divine authorship of the Hebrew Bible. This phenomenon will occur in all texts and all literature. It is just a strange random phenomenon.
Suffice it to say, I'm not amazed or impressed by the so-called heptadic structure.

Googling articles that refute bible codes or anything for that matter will easily give you resources, did you have a look at the link you send me? But I wasn't talking about Bible codes, I was talking about the heptadic structure of scripture, and since you will not even look at the 10 minutes in the video I suggested, I will post it for you. Also it is only in recent years that there are so many different copies of the Bible, each different. And if you actually watch my video you will clearly understand that these copies comes from the Alexandrian Codex which was scripture that the Gnostics back in the day altered, in that version the heptadic structure doesn't occur as it was altered. The Septuagint on the other hand where the King James Version comes from still has the heptadic structure intact....

Unfortunately she sheer amount that this occurs in the Bible in the right places is so exponentially high that the chance it is by random is also out the door. Also even some of your Muslim brothers on this forum claims that the Quran has this heptadic structure btw. So here is a little piece of the Bible - the most profound one (the whole bible is peppered with this structure btw.....)

Design a Genealogy on paper:
• The number of words must be divisible by 7, evenly.
• The number of letters must also be divisible by 7, evenly.
• The number of vowels and the number of consonants must also be divisible by 7.
• The number of words that begin with a vowel must be divisible by 7.
• The number of words that begin with a consonant must be divisible by 7.
• The number of words that occur more than once must be divisible by 7.
• The number of words that occur in more than one form must be divisible by 7.
• The number of words that occur in only one form must be divisible by 7.
• The number of nouns shall be divisible by 7.
• Only 7 words shall not be nouns.
• The number of names shall be divisible by 7.
• Only 7 other kinds of nouns are permitted.
• The number of male names shall be divisible by 7.
• The number of generations shall be divisible by 7.
This is not all though, there are 42 more rules like this in this geneology..... and even the numerical values of the old Greek when added is divisible by 7....
This is the genealogy of Jesus Christ found in Matthew 1:1-11, (in Greek which structures are waaay more complex than English)!

Would you like to try this?
It will take you this long to get it right.....
• 8 hrs/day, 40 hrs/wk, 50 weeks/year = 2000 hrs/year, or 120,000 min/year.
• 79 chances = 40,353,607 attempts @ average of 10 minutes/attempt = 403,536,070 minutes or 3,362 years!

1 Corinthians 1
18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

 

[grateful servant]

Googling articles that refute bible codes or anything for that matter will easily give you resources, did you have a look at the link you send me? But I wasn't talking about Bible codes, I was talking about the heptadic structure of scripture, and since you will not even look at the 10 minutes in the video I suggested, I will post it for you.

I apologize about that Camidria. Your first reply to me contained a link to your video, but by the time I finished reading that you believe there are demons binding me, I forgot to go back and check it. When I searched about this structure, I read that it includes Gematria and I just don't put a whole lot of faith in gematria or any types of number codes. -http://www.khouse.org/articles/1995/102/

Also even some of your Muslim brothers on this forum claims that the Quran has this heptadic structure btw.

Yes, perhaps they are referring to this:

In the Name of Allah, Most Merciful, Most Beneficent. May prayers and peace be upon the prophet Mohammad, his family and his companions.

The logical reasoning says that a coincidence does not happen many times in the same book, except if the author of that book has arranged it following a specific way. The matching results with the number 7 illustrated in this article are clear evidences that God Almighty, Allah, has arranged his book in a form that is in harmony with that number, so that it might lead us to the conclusion that the Quran is a revelation from the Creator of the seven heavens.

The number seven has a great presence in our life and worship, because the heavens are seven, the colors are seven, the days are seven, the orbits in the atom are seven, we turn around the Kaaba seven times, we run between Safa and Marwa seven times, we stone Lucifer seven times, we are commanded by seven commands, we are forbidden to commit seven sins, the greatest sins that directly lead to Hell are seven, there are seven kind of people Allah will put them under His shade on the day of judgment, … and so many other countless things.

The previous makes the number 7 on the top of other numbers after the number 1 that indicates the Unitarianism of God Almighty, because he is one and unique.

The number 1 is the most repeated number in the Quran, after it, comes the number 7, and that might be an indication to the Unitarianism of the Creator firstly, then to his power of creation. Allah says:

“It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like. His command descends between them, that you may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah surrounds all things in (His) knowledge.” (Al-Talaq 65:12).

Now contemplate with me the following clear facts:

• The number of heavens is seven, and when we look in the Quran for the statement “seven heavens” we find that it is repeated seven times throughout the whole Quran exactly as the number of heavens!
• Among all the numbers, the number 7 is the first number stated in the Quran.
• When we look for the appearing frequencies of all the numbers in the Quran, we find that the number 7 is the most repeated number after the number 1.
• When we look at the first chapter in Allah’s book, that is Al-Fatihah (the opening), we find that it is made of seven verses, and it is composed of twenty-one alphabets, which is a multiple of 7 (21=7×3).
• But the astonishing thing in this great Sura which consists of 7 verses is that the number of letters of Allah’s name in this Sura is seven times seven!!! i.e. the number of the letters “A”, “L” and “H” in this Sura is 49 letters, i.e. 7×7.
• God Almighty has told us about the number of the doors of Hell, may Allah protect us from it, when He said: “To it are seven Gates.” (Al-Hijr 15:44). We find that the word “Hell” is repeated 77 times throughout the whole Quran and this number is also a multiple of 7, and made of 7 and 7, and equal to 7×11, so, Hell has seven gates and was repeated in the Quran in a number of times that is a multiple of seven.

The Number Seven in the Holy Quran

The first time the number seven is stated in the Quran is in the verse where God Almighty says: “ ...then He directed Himself to the heaven, so He made them complete seven heavens, and He knows all things.” (Al-Baqarah 2:29).

And the last time the number seven is stated in the Quran is in the verse: “And We have built above you seven strong (heavens)” (Al-Nabaa 78:12).

Now look at the following facts:

• When we count the number of Suras from the Sura 2, where the number 7 is stated for the first time, to the Sura 78, where the number 7 is stated for the last time, we find that there are exactly 77 chapters, and this number is a multiple of seven.
• When we count the number of verses from the verse (2:29), where 7 appears for the first time, to the verse (78:12), where 7 appears for the last time, we find that there are exactly 5649 verses, and this number is also a multiple of seven.
• When we count the number of verses from the beginning of Surat Al-Baqarah 2 (2:1), where 7 appears for the first time, to the end of Surat An-Naba 78 (78:40), where 7 appears for the last time, we find that there are 5705 verses, and this number is also a multiple of seven!

The question now is: Is it a coincidence that the number of Suras is a multiple of seven, and the number of verses is also a multiple of seven, in verses that are talking about the number seven?!

The Most Beautiful Word

It is the word “Allah” Glory be to Him, God Almighty has arranged that word in his book following a strong pattern based also on the number seven as a proof that He is the Lord of the seven heavens.

The word “Allah” was stated for the first time in the first verse of the Quran, which is “In the name of Allah, most Gracious most Merciful.” (Al-Fatihah 1:1), while the last time this glorious name was stated was in the verse: “Allah, the Eternal, the Absolute;” (Al-Ikhlas 112:2)

Now look at the following wonderful facts and their relation with the number 7:

• From the Sura 1, where the word “Allah” was stated for the first time, to the Sura 112, where “Allah” was stated for the last time, there are exactly 112 Suras, and this number is a multiple of seven.
• From the verse (1:1) to the verse (112:2) there are 6223 verses, and this number is also a multiple of seven.
• The total sum of letters in the two verses is 28, which is a multiple of seven.
• The total sum of Allah letters (i.e. ‘A’, ‘L’ and ‘H’) in the two verses is 14 letters, which is also a multiple of seven!

A Wonderful harmony

To any one who claims that the Quran is corrupted, we present to him the following facts:

• The number of alphabets used as Initials is 14, i.e. 7×2.
• The Initials are grouped into 14 different sets, i.e. 7×2.
• The numbers of the Quran’s alphabets is 28, i.e. 7×4.
• The number of the words in the first verse and the last verse in the Quran is 7.
• The number of words in the first Sura and the last Sura is 49= 7 × 7.
• The number of Suras whose numbers of verses are multiples of 7 is 14 Suras, i.e. 7×2.
• The first Sura among them is Al-Fatihah with 7 verses, and the last is Sura 112 Al-Ikhlas with 7 verses.
• The Arabic name for Sura 1 is composed of 7 letters and so is the Arabic name for Sura 112.
• The Prophet, may peace be upon Him, lived for 63 years, i.e. 7×9.

Is this numerical precision with the number 7 a coincidence? Or is it a clear proof to anyone who has any doubt in the divine origin of the Quran, and that it is Allah’s true word?

“Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian.” Al-Hijr 15:9

If you took the time to read that above, you would be a hypocrite not to accept it while accepting what is said about the Bible in the same regard.

This is the genealogy of Jesus Christ found in Matthew 1:1-11, (in Greek which structures are waaay more complex than English)!

Yes, when I read about that in this link: http://www.khouse.org/articles/1995/102/, I wondered if the same is true for the geneology in Luke? Does it matter that the geneologies in Matt and Luke are different from one another?

You know what language is even waaaay more complex than Koine Greek? Arabic. The language of the Quran. There are some miracles having to do with 'numbers' that would cause anyone with a heart, soul and mind devoted to God, to take pause, but I'll save those for another thread. PEACE.

 

[AspiringSoul]

@AspiringSoul While I agree with much of what you are saying, this still doesn't answer my question of whether it is possible for the choice given by the antichrist to be a choice to choose the mark of the beast or the fire.

Revelation says the second beast, or antichrist, gives the mark of the first beast which is a life or death choice that has spiritual consequences as well. From what I understand the mark is given by the first beast and the antichrist gives a choice in Islamic prophecy.

However, if the choice is the mark of the beast or fire that is given by the antichrist then they are the same thing. then Christians and Muslims would be the only ones with a reason to refuse and would be a shared experience or cause to refuse this mark.

However, alternately Islamic prophecy appears to say that a choice distinguishing between believers and unbelievers will happen twice. Is this true or is it possible that the mark and the choice are referring to the same event that will be implemented by the antichrist.

Interesting take on combating this with some sort of greater etheric understanding. I like that term etheric. Modern way to refer to a second Pentecost-like experience that I do believe revelation 11 is suggesting.

I'd say it's the same thing ie the mark of the Beast is the same as his 'river' where in reality his river is Hell.
The river/fire isn't literal in this theme it is symbolic most likely ie of abundance.
So obviously whatever he has to offer it means comfort in this life.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Except Muslims know without a doubt that no one can see God in this life. He the Most High said: “Vision cannot grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision.” (Quran 6:103)

Vision cannot grasp Him in the true sense but we can still experience God in other ways.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Interesting connections brother @AspiringSoul i will have to re-read and look up a few things.
I think the eye symbol was used in Muslim countries as an amulet against evil eye and jinn. It was considered shirk ( for non Muslims this means associating partners with the Creator).As you are aware the protection comes from the Creator not the amulet.
I like to stick to what the Prophet peace be upon Him did for protection:

A .Reciting the dua:Reciting “La ilaha ill-Allah wahdahu la shareeka lah, lahu’l-mulk wa lahu’l-hamd wa huwa ‘ala kulli shayin qadeer (There is no god except Allah Alone with no partner or associate; His is the Sovereignty and His is the praise, and He is able to do all things)” one hundred times.
B. Also,the last verses of Surat al-Baqarah (Quran)
C. Reciting ayat al-Kursiy (Quran)
D. Reciting al-Mu’awwidhatayn (the last two chapters of the Quran, al-Falaq and al-Nas).

For those who are afflicted with harm:
"Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to say: ‘Adhhib il-ba’s Rabb al-naas ishfi anta al-Shaafi laa shifaa’a illa shifaa’uka shifaa’an laa yughaadiru saqaman (Remove the harm, O Lord of mankind, and heal, You are the Healer. There is no healing but Your healing, a healing which leaves no disease behind.’”

(Narrated by Abu Dawood, 3883; Ibn Maajah, 3530)

I was not referring to the actual eye symbol but the AYN
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayin
The AYN is really the symbol of Allah...

Hence in the Quran look at how Allah protected Musa AS

(1) "Saying: 'Put him (the child) into the Tabut (a box or a case or a chest) and put it into the river (Nile); then the river shall cast it up on the bank, and there, an enemy of Mine and an enemy of his shall take him.' And I endued you with love from Me, in order that you may be brought up under My Eye.
(سورة طه, Taa-Haa, Chapter #20, Verse #39)

The hamsa sign is one i totally reject because of it's pagan roots
but
this letter

is the symbol of Allah
instead of the Hamsa why don't they just use the letter AYN?


Fyi you say amulets/talismans...the hamsa certainly is ie the hand symbol..
however the 'symbols of Allah' are a real thing

(3) Thus it is an obligation that mankind owes to Allah] and whosoever honours the symbols of Allah, then it is truly from the piety of the hearts.
(سورة الحج, Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #32)

 

[Lady]

I apologize about that Camidria. Your first reply to me contained a link to your video, but by the time I finished reading that you believe there are demons binding me, I forgot to go back and check it. When I searched about this structure, I read that it includes Gematria and I just don't put a whole lot of faith in gematria or any types of number codes. -http://www.khouse.org/articles/1995/102/

Yes, perhaps they are referring to this:

In the Name of Allah, Most Merciful, Most Beneficent. May prayers and peace be upon the prophet Mohammad, his family and his companions.

The logical reasoning says that a coincidence does not happen many times in the same book, except if the author of that book has arranged it following a specific way. The matching results with the number 7 illustrated in this article are clear evidences that God Almighty, Allah, has arranged his book in a form that is in harmony with that number, so that it might lead us to the conclusion that the Quran is a revelation from the Creator of the seven heavens.

The number seven has a great presence in our life and worship, because the heavens are seven, the colors are seven, the days are seven, the orbits in the atom are seven, we turn around the Kaaba seven times, we run between Safa and Marwa seven times, we stone Lucifer seven times, we are commanded by seven commands, we are forbidden to commit seven sins, the greatest sins that directly lead to Hell are seven, there are seven kind of people Allah will put them under His shade on the day of judgment, … and so many other countless things.

The previous makes the number 7 on the top of other numbers after the number 1 that indicates the Unitarianism of God Almighty, because he is one and unique.

The number 1 is the most repeated number in the Quran, after it, comes the number 7, and that might be an indication to the Unitarianism of the Creator firstly, then to his power of creation. Allah says:

“It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like. His command descends between them, that you may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah surrounds all things in (His) knowledge.” (Al-Talaq 65:12).

Now contemplate with me the following clear facts:

• The number of heavens is seven, and when we look in the Quran for the statement “seven heavens” we find that it is repeated seven times throughout the whole Quran exactly as the number of heavens!
• Among all the numbers, the number 7 is the first number stated in the Quran.
• When we look for the appearing frequencies of all the numbers in the Quran, we find that the number 7 is the most repeated number after the number 1.
• When we look at the first chapter in Allah’s book, that is Al-Fatihah (the opening), we find that it is made of seven verses, and it is composed of twenty-one alphabets, which is a multiple of 7 (21=7×3).
• But the astonishing thing in this great Sura which consists of 7 verses is that the number of letters of Allah’s name in this Sura is seven times seven!!! i.e. the number of the letters “A”, “L” and “H” in this Sura is 49 letters, i.e. 7×7.
• God Almighty has told us about the number of the doors of Hell, may Allah protect us from it, when He said: “To it are seven Gates.” (Al-Hijr 15:44). We find that the word “Hell” is repeated 77 times throughout the whole Quran and this number is also a multiple of 7, and made of 7 and 7, and equal to 7×11, so, Hell has seven gates and was repeated in the Quran in a number of times that is a multiple of seven.

The Number Seven in the Holy Quran

The first time the number seven is stated in the Quran is in the verse where God Almighty says: “ ...then He directed Himself to the heaven, so He made them complete seven heavens, and He knows all things.” (Al-Baqarah 2:29).

And the last time the number seven is stated in the Quran is in the verse: “And We have built above you seven strong (heavens)” (Al-Nabaa 78:12).

Now look at the following facts:

• When we count the number of Suras from the Sura 2, where the number 7 is stated for the first time, to the Sura 78, where the number 7 is stated for the last time, we find that there are exactly 77 chapters, and this number is a multiple of seven.
• When we count the number of verses from the verse (2:29), where 7 appears for the first time, to the verse (78:12), where 7 appears for the last time, we find that there are exactly 5649 verses, and this number is also a multiple of seven.
• When we count the number of verses from the beginning of Surat Al-Baqarah 2 (2:1), where 7 appears for the first time, to the end of Surat An-Naba 78 (78:40), where 7 appears for the last time, we find that there are 5705 verses, and this number is also a multiple of seven!

The question now is: Is it a coincidence that the number of Suras is a multiple of seven, and the number of verses is also a multiple of seven, in verses that are talking about the number seven?!

The Most Beautiful Word

It is the word “Allah” Glory be to Him, God Almighty has arranged that word in his book following a strong pattern based also on the number seven as a proof that He is the Lord of the seven heavens.

The word “Allah” was stated for the first time in the first verse of the Quran, which is “In the name of Allah, most Gracious most Merciful.” (Al-Fatihah 1:1), while the last time this glorious name was stated was in the verse: “Allah, the Eternal, the Absolute;” (Al-Ikhlas 112:2)

Now look at the following wonderful facts and their relation with the number 7:

• From the Sura 1, where the word “Allah” was stated for the first time, to the Sura 112, where “Allah” was stated for the last time, there are exactly 112 Suras, and this number is a multiple of seven.
• From the verse (1:1) to the verse (112:2) there are 6223 verses, and this number is also a multiple of seven.
• The total sum of letters in the two verses is 28, which is a multiple of seven.
• The total sum of Allah letters (i.e. ‘A’, ‘L’ and ‘H’) in the two verses is 14 letters, which is also a multiple of seven!

A Wonderful harmony

To any one who claims that the Quran is corrupted, we present to him the following facts:

• The number of alphabets used as Initials is 14, i.e. 7×2.
• The Initials are grouped into 14 different sets, i.e. 7×2.
• The numbers of the Quran’s alphabets is 28, i.e. 7×4.
• The number of the words in the first verse and the last verse in the Quran is 7.
• The number of words in the first Sura and the last Sura is 49= 7 × 7.
• The number of Suras whose numbers of verses are multiples of 7 is 14 Suras, i.e. 7×2.
• The first Sura among them is Al-Fatihah with 7 verses, and the last is Sura 112 Al-Ikhlas with 7 verses.
• The Arabic name for Sura 1 is composed of 7 letters and so is the Arabic name for Sura 112.
• The Prophet, may peace be upon Him, lived for 63 years, i.e. 7×9.

Is this numerical precision with the number 7 a coincidence? Or is it a clear proof to anyone who has any doubt in the divine origin of the Quran, and that it is Allah’s true word?

“Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian.” Al-Hijr 15:9

If you took the time to read that above, you would be a hypocrite not to accept it while accepting what is said about the Bible in the same regard.
Yes, when I read about that in this link: http://www.khouse.org/articles/1995/102/, I wondered if the same is true for the geneology in Luke? Does it matter that the geneologies in Matt and Luke are different from one another?

You know what language is even waaaay more complex than Koine Greek? Arabic. The language of the Quran. There are some miracles having to do with 'numbers' that would cause anyone with a heart, soul and mind devoted to God, to take pause, but I'll save those for another thread. PEACE.

Is this language complexity why there are so many different versions?

 

[DesertRose]

The hamsa sign is one i totally reject because of it's pagan root

Agreed. We should reject all things not from the prophetic way, but people will do what they do......

Quran 22:32 is in regards to the rites, decrees that we perform for the Creator.

Generally Accepted Translations of the Meaning
Muhammad Asad

This is [to be borne in mind]. And anyone who honours the symbols set up by God [shall know that] verily, these [symbols derive their value] from the God-consciousness in the [believers’] hearts.
M. M. Pickthall

That (is the command). And whoso magnifieth the offerings consecrated to Allah, it surely is from devotion of the hearts.
Al-Muntakhab]

So be it, and he who honours Allah's sacred acts and rites and turns his thoughts upon the duties owed to Him will have won Allah's affection; for honouring Allah's rites is an endearment of the hearts reflective of piety.
....and there are more: http://islamawakened.com/quran/22/32/default.htm

 

[grateful servant]

Is this language complexity why there are so many different versions?

What do you mean @Lady?

 

[LadyNocturna33]

Just reading this topic, doesn't that mean the Dajjal is already there and can be seen as television instead of a person?

It's in every house and the one eye logo is flashed continuously. HAARP is a reality, so are chemtrails. The Environment is being destroyed.

Couldn't this person be a metaphor for the above?

 

[DesertRose]

Hello @LadyNocturna33
Brother @AspiringSoul wrote about this in an earlier post:

"I remember years ago i read a 'hadith' that told us there are 3 aspects of dajjal

The political system
the UNSEEN FORCE
and finally the man."

 

[Camidria]

I apologize about that Camidria. Your first reply to me contained a link to your video, but by the time I finished reading that you believe there are demons binding me, I forgot to go back and check it. When I searched about this structure, I read that it includes Gematria and I just don't put a whole lot of faith in gematria or any types of number codes. -http://www.khouse.org/articles/1995/102/

I am sorry if you felt I said that, I didn't say that at all in my post. You said that you believe that "the real goal is to get the people to devote themselves to (i.e.worship) the creation instead of the Creator."

I disagreed and said "The goal is for people to worship themselves and be slaves to the system whilst blissfully believing in a new age religion of self worship and being mindless slaves......" This I believe is the goal of the elite and of satan....

I did read though your post with the multiples of seven, and after I've seen and read about the Bible's heptadic structure and how extremely complex the bible is, those rules of seven felt like it could still be compiled. If you perhaps told me the Quran has 100 rules of seven in this chapter and 57 rules of seven in the next and so it goes, I could then consider it. The difference here is, you have a extreme considerable amount of rules of seven in the Bible. As Muslims you guys have stated many times that you do believe the Bible to be true as long as it coincides with the Quran. So obviously the Bible should be divinely inspired according to yourselves as well. Now many times I have read that you say the Bible has been corrupted, so I wanted to show you that there are versions that has been corrupted BUT we still have a version that we know beyond a doubt has not been corrupted....

That version as shown with the hundreds of thousands of rules of seven says different things than what to Quran says.
Now consider this from my point of view (place yourself in my shoes and imagine for a second you believe in the heptadic structure)
If you have a book (Book A) with the these rules of seven and the rules of seven are so many that the probability of this is astounding, lets say and you have another book (Book 1) that also has these rules of seven but its not throughout the whole book, it's not as many as Book A, and the probability of this Book 1 being having these rules of seven are way lower than Book A.

Practically
Book A has more than 34 rules of seven per chapter, the chances of that is 1 in 54,116,956,037,952,111,668,959,660,849 for 34 rules
Book 1 has about 7 rules of seven and it's not in all the chapters, the chances of that is 1 in 823,543
Book A - each chapter's chances of having these rules of seven is a lot more than 1 in 54,116,956,037,952,111,668,959,660,849
Book 1 - these rules of seven appear here and there not everywhere (or does it? correct me if I am wrong.)

For me I would obviously feel Book A is more authentic and I can trust it as the probability of these rules of 7 are throughout the WHOLE book and the probabilities is way higher than book 1.

The problem with what you have given me is that a human can write the rules of seven you mentioned because they are spread out over many many pages, far and wide and not compounded in a small amount of text like in the Bible.

Ok lets look at what you posted about the first and last surah:
The number of words in the first Sura and the last Sura is 49= 7 × 7.
The first Sura among them is Al-Fatihah with 7 verses, and the last is Sura 112 Al-Ikhlas with 7 verses.
The Arabic name for Sura 1 is composed of 7 letters and so is the Arabic name for Sura 112.
That is 3 rules of 7 chances are 1 in 343

The number of Suras whose numbers of verses are multiples of 7 is 14 Suras, i.e. 7×2.
That is one rule of seven, chances are 1 in 7

The number of alphabets used as Initials is 14, i.e. 7×2.
That is one rule of seven, chances are 1 in 7

The Initials are grouped into 14 different sets, i.e. 7×2.
That is one rule of seven, chances are 1 in 7

The numbers of the Quran’s alphabets is 28, i.e. 7×4.
That is one rule of seven, chances are 1 in 7

The number of the words in the first verse and the last verse in the Quran is 7.
That is one rule of seven, chances are 1 in 7

The Prophet, may peace be upon Him, lived for 63 years, i.e. 7×9.
I'm not sure of this probability...

I hope you understand what I mean

Yes, when I read about that in this link: http://www.khouse.org/articles/1995/102/, I wondered if the same is true for the geneology in Luke? Does it matter that the geneologies in Matt and Luke are different from one another?

I am not sure, I will have to look at that.

You know what language is even waaaay more complex than Koine Greek? Arabic. The language of the Quran. There are some miracles having to do with 'numbers' that would cause anyone with a heart, soul and mind devoted to God, to take pause, but I'll save those for another thread. PEACE.

Exactly how I feel as well just about the Bible...

Be Blessed!

 

[Camidria]

Is this language complexity why there are so many different versions?

Yes and no, I think the language complexity is the reason for the few versions of Bible that we can trust and has not been altered. Like the KJV, NKJV, Amplified and the NET.

As for the Bibles translated out of the Codex Vaticanius, Codex Siniaticus, and the Codex Alexandrinus. They attempt to correct the edited Gnostic text I believe. because the Gnostics tampared with these versions to write Jesus out of the text. The Bibles translated out of these versions are like the NIV and NLT and a few others.

 

[DesertRose]

Hello @Camidria like sister @grateful servant I do not focus on numeracy as much as the message of one Creator of the heavens and earth who is outside of his Creation.Who communicated the same message through his prophets and/or messengers peace be upon all of them.
However, here is a video on the miracle of the number 19 in the Quran:

@rainerann
I was looking for correlations between Islamic end times and Christian end times and found this:

 

[Lady]

Yes and no, I think the language complexity is the reason for the few versions of Bible that we can trust and has not been altered. Like the KJV, NKJV, Amplified and the NET.

As for the Bibles translated out of the Codex Vaticanius, Codex Siniaticus, and the Codex Alexandrinus. They attempt to correct the edited Gnostic text I believe. because the Gnostics tampared with these versions to write Jesus out of the text. The Bibles translated out of these versions are like the NIV and NLT and a few others.

@Camidria
Thanks for answering and I appreciate the reply.
I was referring to the supposed 26 different versions of the Arabic Quran.

 

[DesertRose]

@Lady
The Quran is a oral recitation first and it has been and is primarily memorized. Variations have been limited to differences in dialect regarding these recitations and in replacement of some words with the same meanings being allowed for the early Muslims but this was extremely limited.
There are 7-10 ways of reciting the Quran and these pertain to dialects in reading.

To be honest, this is the first time I heard of the charge of 26 versions:

A viewer asks, "I recently came across a debate you had with Jay Smith where he mentions the different Qurans found across the globe, such as Uzbekistan and Topkapi etc. He also made mention that there are some version that are not complete and seemed to believe that the differing Qurans may not have been alike in content. I would like your response on this please." Dr. Shabir Ally shares his thoughts!

 

[Lady]

@DesertRose
I was doing some reading and came across this piece:http://answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm
After looking to verify with more sources I found the Jay Smith information stating there are 26 versions of the Arabic Quran.
So far, Smith's claim is substantiated by himself only, so that information is not useable at this time.

 

[floss]