Finding the good in Agnosticism - an honest look at faith and doubt

Identify

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God did not write the bible, jews did.
Saying otherwise after reading the old testament (and I mean reading every page from start to finish, not just quotes here and there) is willful ignorance.

Imo, applying simple spiritual logic inevitably leads to agnosticism in the following way:
- All religoeus people (claiming one specific religion) agree god is the source of all that is. Yet also believe he had to write his will down in words for us. And following his written will is the only way for us to be alligned with truth.
- but the creation itself can not be fully described using words because the principle of infinity (in time as well as space) implies it can never be entirely known. The creator of this creation is therefor even more elusive as he encompasses and supersedes all creation. So Truth (all encompassing Truth) can not be reduced to written (or spoken) language.
- this means all possible descriptions of god are either false if they claim to present the whole truth, or incomplete and therefore not entirely trustworthy.

Ancient and modern 'primitive' spiritual humans understand this and therefore restrain from elaborating too much about god. That is why silence (=meditation) is considered the only option when dealing with the subject. This is physically showing you have nothing to say (or do) about god, because all you can possibly say will never be the whole truth. The modern day equivalent can be considered as agnosticism, whether you meditate or not does not matter.

This practice of meditation was then bastardised by scammers hungry for power and wealth. They claim one can win the favor of the creator (of which you know nothing or only very little) by pronouncing certain words and performing certain rituals that ultimately only benefit the inventor of the practice. And so religion came to existence, ignoring the most basic understanding there is about god.
 

Alanantic

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Buddha was just an ordinary human in 500 BC giving us his best guesses and hunches, but if he was spot on with everything he said, God wouldn't have had to send Jesus to set the human race straight once and for all..:)
But in fairness to Buddha he was an honest truthseeker and he'd probably heard all the Old T prophecies about the coming of Jesus and wished he'd meet him; perhaps he was one of the truthseekers who Jesus spoke of when he said to his disciples--
"Many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which you see, and have not seen them, and to hear those things which you hear, and have not heard them" (Matt 13:17)

As for Krishna, he was just some "god" invented by assorted ancient hindu cults, and as hinduism operates the elitist caste system i don't see any love there..:)

Your lack of understanding of these two great religions is expected, but you really should hold no opinions until you do.
 

Tidal

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Your lack of understanding of these two great religions is expected, but you really should hold no opinions until you do.

If you mean Buddhism, that's not a religion, it's a philosophy..:)
As for Hinduism, what's so "great" about discriminating against cripples and the low-born?
 

Tidal

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Darn! I had an insulting comeback but decided...I don't care. :cool:

Look mate, you said earlier you were raised an "evangelical Christian" but abandoned it later.
Obviously you never knew Jesus, because abandoning him makes about as much sense as an Elvis fan deciding to abandon Elvis.. :p
 

Red Sky at Morning

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@Alanantic - I was offended and disappointed by the actions of a number of Christians when I was about 18. I saw “Christianity” as a system these irksome individuals used to systemise their misery! I walked away for a time.

It literally took a miracle for me to truly come back.
 

Alanantic

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It took me some time to unravel the messengers from the message @Maldarker !
Actually, it did take a miracle for me to leave the church. It finally dawned on me that all I was seeing was false enthusiasm generated by some misplaced fear of damnation. It simply became ridiculous. All my prayers led me to leave Christianity. I do realise that for many, prayer has the opposite affect.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Actually, it did take a miracle for me to leave the church. It finally dawned on me that all I was seeing was false enthusiasm generated by some misplaced fear of damnation. It simply became ridiculous. All my prayers led me to leave Christianity. I do realise that for many, prayer has the opposite affect.
I posted this up a long time ago, but I guess in the spirit of sharing experiences, this was mine...

This happened to me some years ago. I'm not going to press the point, but I leave it with you. You decide for yourself if the power of my belief made this happen.

My brother had a girlfriend when he was about 17 who had some very severe back trouble. She had a twisted spine and was given till her mid 20s before she would wind up in a wheelchair. She lived a few hours away from us and had come to visit with her friend for the weekend. That particular weekend Jim Sepulvida was sharing his experiences at an auditorum near to us and we had all wanted to hear him speak so we went.

Just to mention, this was 25 years ago and Jim is no longer with us but I found a (pretty old!) YouTube video of his testimony.


Anyway, at the end of the meeting, he went into a time of praying for the sick. Various people had gone up to the front but she didn't. There was a pause and Jim stopped, saying that the Lord was telling him there were five women there with back trouble.

Four came forward...

Jim stopped and said there was still a woman with back trouble that needed to come forward. She told me afterwards she thought at that moment 'I'm 17 - that means I'm a girl - it's not me'

Jim paused, then said 'OK, will the GIRL with back trouble please come forward!'

She did.

No-one touched her and she was certainly not a regular at 'that' sort of church, but as Jim prayed for her she fell backwards and looked like she was fast asleep!!! When she came to after a little while, she was smiling from ear to ear and ran up the steps to us, then round the hall again... When she had calmed down a bit she told us that she had felt the love and presence of God as she lay there and had the physical sensation of her spine being knocked into line!

Returning the doctors she had a series of tests and was pronounced inexplicably healed.
 

Alanantic

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I posted this up a long time ago, but I guess in the spirit of sharing experiences, this was mine...

This happened to me some years ago. I'm not going to press the point, but I leave it with you. You decide for yourself if the power of my belief made this happen.

My brother had a girlfriend when he was about 17 who had some very severe back trouble. She had a twisted spine and was given till her mid 20s before she would wind up in a wheelchair. She lived a few hours away from us and had come to visit with her friend for the weekend. That particular weekend Jim Sepulvida was sharing his experiences at an auditorum near to us and we had all wanted to hear him speak so we went.

Just to mention, this was 25 years ago and Jim is no longer with us but I found a (pretty old!) YouTube video of his testimony.


Anyway, at the end of the meeting, he went into a time of praying for the sick. Various people had gone up to the front but she didn't. There was a pause and Jim stopped, saying that the Lord was telling him there were five women there with back trouble.

Four came forward...

Jim stopped and said there was still a woman with back trouble that needed to come forward. She told me afterwards she thought at that moment 'I'm 17 - that means I'm a girl - it's not me'

Jim paused, then said 'OK, will the GIRL with back trouble please come forward!'

She did.

No-one touched her and she was certainly not a regular at 'that' sort of church, but as Jim prayed for her she fell backwards and looked like she was fast asleep!!! When she came to after a little while, she was smiling from ear to ear and ran up the steps to us, then round the hall again... When she had calmed down a bit she told us that she had felt the love and presence of God as she lay there and had the physical sensation of her spine being knocked into line!

Returning the doctors she had a series of tests and was pronounced inexplicably healed.
Like I said, prayer works for some people. Prayer and meditation are the cornerstones of all major religions.
 

Identify

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I posted this up a long time ago, but I guess in the spirit of sharing experiences, this was mine...

This happened to me some years ago. I'm not going to press the point, but I leave it with you. You decide for yourself if the power of my belief made this happen.

My brother had a girlfriend when he was about 17 who had some very severe back trouble. She had a twisted spine and was given till her mid 20s before she would wind up in a wheelchair. She lived a few hours away from us and had come to visit with her friend for the weekend. That particular weekend Jim Sepulvida was sharing his experiences at an auditorum near to us and we had all wanted to hear him speak so we went.

Just to mention, this was 25 years ago and Jim is no longer with us but I found a (pretty old!) YouTube video of his testimony.


Anyway, at the end of the meeting, he went into a time of praying for the sick. Various people had gone up to the front but she didn't. There was a pause and Jim stopped, saying that the Lord was telling him there were five women there with back trouble.

Four came forward...

Jim stopped and said there was still a woman with back trouble that needed to come forward. She told me afterwards she thought at that moment 'I'm 17 - that means I'm a girl - it's not me'

Jim paused, then said 'OK, will the GIRL with back trouble please come forward!'

She did.

No-one touched her and she was certainly not a regular at 'that' sort of church, but as Jim prayed for her she fell backwards and looked like she was fast asleep!!! When she came to after a little while, she was smiling from ear to ear and ran up the steps to us, then round the hall again... When she had calmed down a bit she told us that she had felt the love and presence of God as she lay there and had the physical sensation of her spine being knocked into line!

Returning the doctors she had a series of tests and was pronounced inexplicably healed.
People attribute these experiences to god but how can you be sure it is god the creator that performed the act?
There are plenty testimonials of non religious people having the same healing experience using focus of the mind. The so called miracle was performed by the girls own being, she just needed someone else to make her realize she had this power. This third person knows this but uses the ignorance of the girl for personal glory.

All of us where born with a mind a body and a soul. This is the holy trinity. You do not need god to use it, he gave it to you so you can live your life as an independent sovereign being.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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People attribute these experiences to god but how can you be sure it is god the creator that performed the act?
There are plenty testimonials of non religious people having the same healing experience using focus of the mind. The so called miracle was performed by the girls own being, she just needed someone else to make her realize she had this power. This third person knows this but uses the ignorance of the girl for personal glory.

All of us where born with a mind a body and a soul. This is the holy trinity. You do not need god to use it, he gave it to you so you can live your life as an independent sovereign being.
Well, she was sitting next to me that night, and we had long known she had a degenerative condition.

The parts I can see no other explanation for is that she wasn’t really thinking about “getting healed” at all - the guys words came as a surprise to her. Next, the guy who was speaking was given the number of women with back trouble.

My friend had said in her own heart that she “wasn’t a woman” - how, from a purely psychological perspective, would the speaker know that she had said that, and respond immediately?

I have seen fake healing services, I have witnessed psychological manipulation, but this was neither. I can see no other reasonable explanation than that this girl had an appointment with God that night.
 

Journeyman

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Here’s the secret meaning if you’re ready for it: Telling others about god is the encoded command to “worship the G.O.A.T.” (the god of all things)

...which is also represented by the “evil magician” archetype, or in free mason ree the “GAOTE grand architect of the universe” which can be more accurately described as the architect of the false mind control systems, in other words definitely not the Source of all existence.
I'd really like you to expand on this at some point if you can?

Are they engaged in a form of energy harvesting? Tricking people into feeding an egregore construct?

Are they worshipping what Gnosticism referred to as the Archon and are they tricking people into unwittingly doing the same?
 
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I'd really like you to expand on this at some point if you can?

Are they engaged in a form of energy harvesting? Tricking people into feeding an egregore construct?

Are they worshipping what Gnosticism referred to as the Archon and are they tricking people into unwittingly doing the same?
Yes, yes ...and almost, but not quite. “Archon” is more of an umbrella term, not a specific thought form entity. The word archon represents a different archetypal structure. Instead of the “evil magician” archetype, it represents the archetype of the controlling tyrant or despot. The entities involved in the deception strategies of the spiritually abusive, anti-life forces of domination and control ALL represent the same “tyrant” archetype.
 

Journeyman

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Yes, yes ...and almost, but not quite. “Archon” is more of an umbrella term, not a specific thought form entity. The word archon represents a different archetypal structure. Instead of the “evil magician” archetype, it represents the archetype of the controlling tyrant or despot. The entities involved in the deception strategies of the spiritually abusive, anti-life forces of domination and control ALL represent the same “tyrant” archetype.
Thank you for this.

I've got more questions but I'd be taking the thread off topic. Instinctively I think it's important to get as good a handle on this as possible to try and counteract any programming or manipulation that we've been subjected to.

I may start a thread about what the powers that be believe or the nature of their objectives and hopefully you may expand a little more at that point?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I'd really like you to expand on this at some point if you can?

Are they engaged in a form of energy harvesting? Tricking people into feeding an egregore construct?

Are they worshipping what Gnosticism referred to as the Archon and are they tricking people into unwittingly doing the same?
I’m sure that if the Rapture occurs at some point, the Gnostic world will chalk it up as an example of the power of egragore, and ask the question “if this is what mankind can do by focussing on ‘the negative’, what can we do if we combine our collective energies to ascend to higher tiers of evolution?!”

 
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Instinctively I think it's important to get as good a handle on this as possible to try and counteract any programming or manipulation that we've been subjected to.
This made me laugh. I’m thinking “wait, all of it? Are you sure?” I get what you mean, but holy moly if people only knew!

The majority of people would go insane if they suddenly gained full awareness. Besides, the false definitions and beliefs eventually dissolve on their own after they are no longer necessary. It just takes some time to demonstrate consistency of decisions, then a more congruent pattern of thought can establish itself and replace its old counterpart.
 
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I’m sure that if the Rapture occurs at some point, the Gnostic world will chalk it up as an example of the power of egragore, and ask the question “if this is what mankind can do by focussing on ‘the negative’, what can we do if we combine our collective energies to ascend to higher tiers of evolution?!”

I hope that I have a few more decades of life left here on earth. I have absolutely no desire to be whisked away to the afterlife any time soon. Leaving others behind seems awful, and somewhat sad to me at this point in my life. I don’t foresee my attitude ever changing, either. That said, I honor your beliefs with complete respect and non-judgment.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I hope that I have a few more decades of life left here on earth. I have absolutely no desire to be whisked away to the afterlife any time soon. Leaving others behind seems awful, and somewhat sad to me at this point in my life. I don’t foresee my attitude ever changing, either. That said, I honor your beliefs with complete respect and non-judgment.
A couple of songs that might give a glimpse into my mindset on “the afterlife”...


and


It isn’t that I don’t love the life I’m living now, but everything pales in comparison to what I will see one day. I love the words of C.S. Lewis here...

‘You do not yet look so happy as I mean you to be,’ said Aslan.​
Lucy said, ‘We’re do afraid of being sent away, Aslan. And you have sent us back into our own world so often.’​
‘No fear of that,’ said Aslan. ‘Have you not guessed?’​
Their hearts leaped and a wild hope rose within them.​
‘There was a real railway accident,’ said Aslan softly. ‘Your father and mother and all of you are as you used to call it in the Shadowlands ‘dead’. The term is over: the holidays have begun. The dream is ended: this is the morning.’​
And as He spoke He no longer looked to them like a lion; but the things that began to happen after that were so great and beautiful that I cannot write them. And for us this is the end of all the stories, and we can most truly say that they all lived happily ever after. But for them it was only the beginning of the real story. All their life in this world and all their adventures in Narnia had only been the cover and the title page: now at least they were beginning Chapter One of the Great Story which no one on earth has read: which goes on for ever: in which every chapter is better than the one before.”​
The Last Battle
 
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