A Freeman
Superstar
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2019
- Messages
- 8,329
Can you see Christ in his second coming? He has already cast his net | VT Foreign Policy
www.veteranstoday.com
Christ’s Second Coming according to the Bible.
- Thread starter phipps
- Start date
www.veteranstoday.com
Thunderian
Superstar
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2017
- Messages
- 7,515
Because the Rapture isn’t his return.
phipps
Star
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2017
- Messages
- 4,887
The Secret Rapture—Is It True?
When Jesus promised His disciples, "I will come again" (John 14:3), He created a hope that has burned in the hearts of nearly all Christians for 2,000 years. And seldom since the first century A.D. has this hope burned more brightly in the hearts of more Christians than it does today.
This hope is darkened, however, by one shadow. According to the Bible, a terrible time of trouble often spoken of as the Tribulation will take place on earth just before Christ s second coming. For nearly 1,800 years, Christians believed that all of God's people would pass through this tribulation. However, about 200 years ago, a new theory was proposed that God will take true Christians out of the world and transport them to heaven prior to the Tribulation. Those left behind will pass through the Tribulation, during which millions of Jews will be converted to Christianity. The second coming of Christ will take place at the end of the Tribulation.
The carrying away of the saints to heaven prior to the Tribulation is called the rapture. According to those who hold this view, the rapture will be secret in the sense that, at first, no one will know that it has occurred. Those who are left behind on earth will only realize that it has happened when they become aware that many people have suddenly disappeared for no good reason. A number of religious films have attempted to portray this rapture in recent years. These films typically show startled people wondering what happened to their friends and loved ones. Another common scene is that of cars and air planes crashing because their drivers and pilots were raptured.
In a sense, this view of the end of the world could be called a dual second coming theory because it splits Christ's return to our planet into two parts the rapture prior to the Tribulation and the Second Coming at its conclusion.
Many of the notable Christian leaders of the faith understood from the Bible that Christ’s coming would be a literal, audible, glorious event for God’s persecuted people who would be raptured after they endured the great tribulation brought about by the antichrist including:
John Bunyan, John Calvin, Adam Clarke, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Finney, Matthew Henry, John Huss, John Knox, Hugh Latimer, C.S. Lewis, Martin Luther, D.L. Moody, George Mueller, Sir Isaac Newton, John Newton, Charles Spurgeon, William Tyndale, Isaac Watts, Charles Wesley, John Wesley, George Whitefield, William Wilberforce, John Wycliffe, Ulrich Zwingli, and many others.
Of course, the truth of a teaching is not dependent upon who believes it, but whether or not it is in line with all of the Scriptures.
When Jesus promised His disciples, "I will come again" (John 14:3), He created a hope that has burned in the hearts of nearly all Christians for 2,000 years. And seldom since the first century A.D. has this hope burned more brightly in the hearts of more Christians than it does today.
This hope is darkened, however, by one shadow. According to the Bible, a terrible time of trouble often spoken of as the Tribulation will take place on earth just before Christ s second coming. For nearly 1,800 years, Christians believed that all of God's people would pass through this tribulation. However, about 200 years ago, a new theory was proposed that God will take true Christians out of the world and transport them to heaven prior to the Tribulation. Those left behind will pass through the Tribulation, during which millions of Jews will be converted to Christianity. The second coming of Christ will take place at the end of the Tribulation.
The carrying away of the saints to heaven prior to the Tribulation is called the rapture. According to those who hold this view, the rapture will be secret in the sense that, at first, no one will know that it has occurred. Those who are left behind on earth will only realize that it has happened when they become aware that many people have suddenly disappeared for no good reason. A number of religious films have attempted to portray this rapture in recent years. These films typically show startled people wondering what happened to their friends and loved ones. Another common scene is that of cars and air planes crashing because their drivers and pilots were raptured.
In a sense, this view of the end of the world could be called a dual second coming theory because it splits Christ's return to our planet into two parts the rapture prior to the Tribulation and the Second Coming at its conclusion.
Many of the notable Christian leaders of the faith understood from the Bible that Christ’s coming would be a literal, audible, glorious event for God’s persecuted people who would be raptured after they endured the great tribulation brought about by the antichrist including:
John Bunyan, John Calvin, Adam Clarke, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Finney, Matthew Henry, John Huss, John Knox, Hugh Latimer, C.S. Lewis, Martin Luther, D.L. Moody, George Mueller, Sir Isaac Newton, John Newton, Charles Spurgeon, William Tyndale, Isaac Watts, Charles Wesley, John Wesley, George Whitefield, William Wilberforce, John Wycliffe, Ulrich Zwingli, and many others.
Of course, the truth of a teaching is not dependent upon who believes it, but whether or not it is in line with all of the Scriptures.
Rabbis claim Earth is pulsating at rate that coincides with the name of God
endtimeheadlines.org
Rabbis claim Earth is pulsating at rate that coincides with the name of God
(OPINION) ETH – Recently we shared a report from Popular Mechanics, that the Earth has been pulsating every 26 seconds for the past 60 years, and it has left scientists unable to give an explanation and some speculated that it could be a harmonic phenomenon, a regular seismic chirp caused by the...
endtimeheadlines.org
phipps
Star
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2017
- Messages
- 4,887
Catholics do think of themselves as Christians but a lot of their beliefs stem from paganism and are not biblical or Christian at all. Some of their beliefs and practices are sadly also in most Christian religions. For example Sunday worship is not biblical or Christian but most Christians go to church on Sunday instead of the true Sabbath which is Saturday. Also celebrations of Christmas and Easter are all from Catholicism (which were pagan festivals) but now most Christians celebrate them too. As Christians we are meant to do only what God asks of us not man-made traditions. So that's the difference between true Christianity and false Christianity. I have forums on these subjects here, here, here and here.
When Jesus was crucified it was under the Roman empire which was pagan. Rome was not yet Catholic at that point. That happened many years later. And yes, many Jews became Christians and others rejected Christ as the Messiah.
Last edited:
Rev 14 1Then I looked and saw the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him 144,000 who had His name and His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of many waters and the loud rumbling of thunder. And the sound I heard was like harpists strumming their harps.
3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. And no one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They have been redeemed from among men as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5And no lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
Matthew 25 1“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take along any extra oil. 4But the wise ones took oil in flasks along with their lamps. 5When the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!
7Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.
9‘No, said the wise ones, ‘or there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.
10But while they were on their way to buy it, the bridegroom arrived. Those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.
11Later the other virgins arrived and said, ‘Lord, lord, open the door for us!
12But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I do not know you.
13Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. And no one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They have been redeemed from among men as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5And no lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
Matthew 25 1“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take along any extra oil. 4But the wise ones took oil in flasks along with their lamps. 5When the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!
7Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.
9‘No, said the wise ones, ‘or there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.
10But while they were on their way to buy it, the bridegroom arrived. Those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.
11Later the other virgins arrived and said, ‘Lord, lord, open the door for us!
12But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I do not know you.
13Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
Matthew 24 30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
42Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the homeowner had known in which watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44For this reason, you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour you do not expect.
36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
42Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the homeowner had known in which watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44For this reason, you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour you do not expect.
phipps
Star
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2017
- Messages
- 4,887
Four reasons for rejecting the idea of a secret rapture
A careful study of the Bible suggests at least four major reasons for rejecting the view of a two-stage second coming of Christ:
1. The vocabulary of the Second Advent offers no support for such a view. None of the three Greek terms used in the New Testament to describe the return of Christ namely, parousia, coming; apokalypsis, revelation; and epiphaneia, appearing suggest a secret rapture prior to the Tribulation (often called the pretribulation rapture ) as the object of the Christian's Advent hope.
Pretribulationists claim that in 1 Thessalonians 4:15, Paul used the word parousia to describe the secret rapture. But in 1 Thessalonians 3:13, he used the same word to describe the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints a description, according to pretribulationists, of the second phase of Christ's return. In 2 Thessalonians 2:8, Paul again employs the term parousia to refer to the coming of Christ that will cause the destruction of the antichrist an event that, according to pretribulationists, is supposed to happen during the second phase of Christ's coming (see also Matthew 24:27, 38-39). Similarly, the words apokalypsis and epiphaneia are used to describe both what pretribulationists call the rapture (1 Corinthians 1:7; 1 Timothy 6:14) and what they call the return or second phase of Christ s coming (2 Thessalonians 1:7, 8; 2:8). So, the vocabulary of the Blessed Hope provides no basis whatsoever for a two-phase distinction of Christ's return. Its terms are used interchangeably to describe a single, indivisible, posttribulational Advent of Christ that will bring salvation to believers and retribution to unbelievers.
2. The New Testament contains no trace of a secret, invisible, instantaneous rapture of the church. In fact, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, which gives the most famous description of the Second Advent, suggests the very opposite. It speaks of the Lord descending from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first, and together with the living saints, they will be caught up (raptured) to meet the Lord in the air (verses 16, 17).
The command, the trumpet call, and the great gathering of living and resurrected saints hardly suggest a secret, invisible, and instantaneous event. On the contrary, as has often been pointed out, this is perhaps the noisiest passage in the Bible. The references to a trumpet call in the parallel passages of Matthew 24:31 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 corroborate the public nature of the Second Advent. No trace of a secret rapture can be found in any of these passages.
3. The Bible's Tribulation passages offer no support for a pretribulation rapture of the church. In His Olivet discourse, Jesus spoke of the great Tribulation that will immediately precede His coming, promising that for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened (Matthew 24:22). To argue that the elect are only Jewish believers and not members of the church is to ignore the fact that Christ was addressing His apostles, who represent not only national Israel but also the church at large. This is confirmed by the fact that both Mark and Luke, who wrote their Gospels for the Gentile church, report the same discourse (Mark 13:20; Luke 21).
Noteworthy also is the striking similarity between Christ's description of the second coming of Christ in Matthew 24:30-31 and Paul's in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. Both passages mention the descent of the Lord, the sounding of the trumpet, the accompanying angels or archangel, and the gathering of God's people. Yet, pretribulationists say the 1 Thessalonians passage describes the rapture prior to the Tribulation, but the passage in Matthew describes Christ's second coming after the Tribulation. However, the parallel nature between the two passages clearly indicates they describe a single event not two. So, the rapture of the church does not precede but, on the contrary, follows the great Tribulation.
4. Lastly, both Paul and the book of Revelation negate the notion of a secret pretribulation rapture. In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul refuted a misconception that was prevalent among the Thessalonian Christians. Apparently, they believed that the day of the Lord had already come. To refute this misconception, Paul cited two major events that must occur before the coming of the Lord namely, the rebellion and the appearance of the man of lawlessness who will persecute God s people (2 Thessalonians 2:3). If Paul had expected the church to be raptured away from this world before the Tribulation caused by the appearance of the antichrist, he would hardly have taught that believers would see the appearance of the antichrist before the coming of the Lord.
The book of Revelation treats the events associated with the great Tribulation in greater detail than any other book of the New Testament, events such as the appearance of a beast power that persecutes the saints of God and the pouring out of the seven last plagues (Revelation 8:13). Though John describes these Tribulation events in great detail, he never suggests a pretribulation secret coming of Christ to rapture the church away. This is all the more surprising in view of John's s express purpose to instruct the churches regarding final events. In fact, John explicitly mentions a countless multitude of believers who will pass through the great Tribulation: "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14).
Pretribulationists argue that these believers are all of the Jewish race, allegedly because, during the events described in Revelation 4:1-9, the church is no longer on earth but in heaven. This reasoning is discredited, first of all, by the fact that nowhere does John differentiate between Jewish and Gentile Tribulation saints. To the contrary, John explicitly states that the victorious Tribulation believers come from every nation, tribe, people and language (Revelation 7:9). This phrase occurs repeatedly in Revelation to designate not the Jews exclusively but every member of the human family, regardless of their ethnic or national origin (Revelation 5:9; 10:11; 13:7; 14:6). Obviously, Christ has ransomed not only Jews but people of every race.
In Revelation 22:16, Jesus claims to have sent His angel to John with a testimony that Revelation contains for the churches. It is difficult to see how the messages the angel gave to John could be a testimony for the churches if the church is not directly involved in the events described in chapters 4:1-9 in other words, in most of the book.
The fact is that Revelation describes the church as suffering persecution by satanic powers during the final Tribulation but not as suffering divine wrath. As the ancient Israelites enjoyed God's protection during the ten plagues (Exodus 11:7), so God's people will be protected when His divine wrath falls upon the wicked. Revelation represents this divine protection by an angel sealing the servants of God on their foreheads so they may be protected when God's wrath falls upon the impenitent (Revelation 7:3; 9:4). Ultimately, God's people will be rescued by the glorious return of Christ (Revelation 16:15; 19:1-11). Revelation, then, portrays not a pretribulation rapture of the church but a single, posttribulational return of Christ.
In light of the reasons discussed here, we conclude that the popular teaching of a secret coming of Christ to rapture the church before the final Tribulation is devoid of any biblical support. Such a belief makes God guilty of giving preferential treatment to the church by removing it from the earth while leaving believing Jews to suffer the final Tribulation.
Scripture, however, teaches that Christ's second coming is a single event that occurs after the great Tribulation and will be experienced by believers of all ages and all races. This is the Blessed Hope that unites every nation, tribe, language and people (Revelation 14:6).
Belated rapture
How soon, according to pretribulationists, is the mass disappearance of millions of true Christians from every nation supposed to occur? Many believe that this event is imminent because its main preconditions namely, the re-establishment of the State of Israel and the repossession of ancient Jerusalem have already taken place.
According to Hal Lindsey's initial calculations in The Late Great Planet Earth, the secret rapture of the church is already overdue. In 1970, he predicted that within forty years or so of 1948, all these things could take place. Lindsey derived the forty years from the biblical duration of a generation. He argued on the basis of the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-33) that the formation of the State of Israel in 1948 marked the beginning of the last generation (Daniel 9:27) that would see first the rapture, then the seven years of tribulation, and finally, the return of Christ in glory. Since Lindsey and the majority of the pretribulationists believe the rapture will take place seven years before Christ's visible return in glory, it should have occurred by 1981 or 1982. So, time has already run out on this sensational prediction.
Link.
A careful study of the Bible suggests at least four major reasons for rejecting the view of a two-stage second coming of Christ:
1. The vocabulary of the Second Advent offers no support for such a view. None of the three Greek terms used in the New Testament to describe the return of Christ namely, parousia, coming; apokalypsis, revelation; and epiphaneia, appearing suggest a secret rapture prior to the Tribulation (often called the pretribulation rapture ) as the object of the Christian's Advent hope.
Pretribulationists claim that in 1 Thessalonians 4:15, Paul used the word parousia to describe the secret rapture. But in 1 Thessalonians 3:13, he used the same word to describe the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints a description, according to pretribulationists, of the second phase of Christ's return. In 2 Thessalonians 2:8, Paul again employs the term parousia to refer to the coming of Christ that will cause the destruction of the antichrist an event that, according to pretribulationists, is supposed to happen during the second phase of Christ's coming (see also Matthew 24:27, 38-39). Similarly, the words apokalypsis and epiphaneia are used to describe both what pretribulationists call the rapture (1 Corinthians 1:7; 1 Timothy 6:14) and what they call the return or second phase of Christ s coming (2 Thessalonians 1:7, 8; 2:8). So, the vocabulary of the Blessed Hope provides no basis whatsoever for a two-phase distinction of Christ's return. Its terms are used interchangeably to describe a single, indivisible, posttribulational Advent of Christ that will bring salvation to believers and retribution to unbelievers.
2. The New Testament contains no trace of a secret, invisible, instantaneous rapture of the church. In fact, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, which gives the most famous description of the Second Advent, suggests the very opposite. It speaks of the Lord descending from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first, and together with the living saints, they will be caught up (raptured) to meet the Lord in the air (verses 16, 17).
The command, the trumpet call, and the great gathering of living and resurrected saints hardly suggest a secret, invisible, and instantaneous event. On the contrary, as has often been pointed out, this is perhaps the noisiest passage in the Bible. The references to a trumpet call in the parallel passages of Matthew 24:31 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 corroborate the public nature of the Second Advent. No trace of a secret rapture can be found in any of these passages.
3. The Bible's Tribulation passages offer no support for a pretribulation rapture of the church. In His Olivet discourse, Jesus spoke of the great Tribulation that will immediately precede His coming, promising that for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened (Matthew 24:22). To argue that the elect are only Jewish believers and not members of the church is to ignore the fact that Christ was addressing His apostles, who represent not only national Israel but also the church at large. This is confirmed by the fact that both Mark and Luke, who wrote their Gospels for the Gentile church, report the same discourse (Mark 13:20; Luke 21).
Noteworthy also is the striking similarity between Christ's description of the second coming of Christ in Matthew 24:30-31 and Paul's in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. Both passages mention the descent of the Lord, the sounding of the trumpet, the accompanying angels or archangel, and the gathering of God's people. Yet, pretribulationists say the 1 Thessalonians passage describes the rapture prior to the Tribulation, but the passage in Matthew describes Christ's second coming after the Tribulation. However, the parallel nature between the two passages clearly indicates they describe a single event not two. So, the rapture of the church does not precede but, on the contrary, follows the great Tribulation.
4. Lastly, both Paul and the book of Revelation negate the notion of a secret pretribulation rapture. In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul refuted a misconception that was prevalent among the Thessalonian Christians. Apparently, they believed that the day of the Lord had already come. To refute this misconception, Paul cited two major events that must occur before the coming of the Lord namely, the rebellion and the appearance of the man of lawlessness who will persecute God s people (2 Thessalonians 2:3). If Paul had expected the church to be raptured away from this world before the Tribulation caused by the appearance of the antichrist, he would hardly have taught that believers would see the appearance of the antichrist before the coming of the Lord.
The book of Revelation treats the events associated with the great Tribulation in greater detail than any other book of the New Testament, events such as the appearance of a beast power that persecutes the saints of God and the pouring out of the seven last plagues (Revelation 8:13). Though John describes these Tribulation events in great detail, he never suggests a pretribulation secret coming of Christ to rapture the church away. This is all the more surprising in view of John's s express purpose to instruct the churches regarding final events. In fact, John explicitly mentions a countless multitude of believers who will pass through the great Tribulation: "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14).
Pretribulationists argue that these believers are all of the Jewish race, allegedly because, during the events described in Revelation 4:1-9, the church is no longer on earth but in heaven. This reasoning is discredited, first of all, by the fact that nowhere does John differentiate between Jewish and Gentile Tribulation saints. To the contrary, John explicitly states that the victorious Tribulation believers come from every nation, tribe, people and language (Revelation 7:9). This phrase occurs repeatedly in Revelation to designate not the Jews exclusively but every member of the human family, regardless of their ethnic or national origin (Revelation 5:9; 10:11; 13:7; 14:6). Obviously, Christ has ransomed not only Jews but people of every race.
In Revelation 22:16, Jesus claims to have sent His angel to John with a testimony that Revelation contains for the churches. It is difficult to see how the messages the angel gave to John could be a testimony for the churches if the church is not directly involved in the events described in chapters 4:1-9 in other words, in most of the book.
The fact is that Revelation describes the church as suffering persecution by satanic powers during the final Tribulation but not as suffering divine wrath. As the ancient Israelites enjoyed God's protection during the ten plagues (Exodus 11:7), so God's people will be protected when His divine wrath falls upon the wicked. Revelation represents this divine protection by an angel sealing the servants of God on their foreheads so they may be protected when God's wrath falls upon the impenitent (Revelation 7:3; 9:4). Ultimately, God's people will be rescued by the glorious return of Christ (Revelation 16:15; 19:1-11). Revelation, then, portrays not a pretribulation rapture of the church but a single, posttribulational return of Christ.
In light of the reasons discussed here, we conclude that the popular teaching of a secret coming of Christ to rapture the church before the final Tribulation is devoid of any biblical support. Such a belief makes God guilty of giving preferential treatment to the church by removing it from the earth while leaving believing Jews to suffer the final Tribulation.
Scripture, however, teaches that Christ's second coming is a single event that occurs after the great Tribulation and will be experienced by believers of all ages and all races. This is the Blessed Hope that unites every nation, tribe, language and people (Revelation 14:6).
Belated rapture
How soon, according to pretribulationists, is the mass disappearance of millions of true Christians from every nation supposed to occur? Many believe that this event is imminent because its main preconditions namely, the re-establishment of the State of Israel and the repossession of ancient Jerusalem have already taken place.
According to Hal Lindsey's initial calculations in The Late Great Planet Earth, the secret rapture of the church is already overdue. In 1970, he predicted that within forty years or so of 1948, all these things could take place. Lindsey derived the forty years from the biblical duration of a generation. He argued on the basis of the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-33) that the formation of the State of Israel in 1948 marked the beginning of the last generation (Daniel 9:27) that would see first the rapture, then the seven years of tribulation, and finally, the return of Christ in glory. Since Lindsey and the majority of the pretribulationists believe the rapture will take place seven years before Christ's visible return in glory, it should have occurred by 1981 or 1982. So, time has already run out on this sensational prediction.
Link.
Thunderian
Superstar
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2017
- Messages
- 7,515
No one who believes in the Rapture calls it a “secret” Rapture. I’m not sure where the term came from, but it’s not part of the doctrine. You’re posting complete straw man arguments based on lies about what people like me believe.
Tidal
Star
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2020
- Messages
- 3,803
Regarding the belief that christians will be "raptured away" to safety before the Apocalypse, NO TRUE CHRISTIAN WOULD WANT TO BE RAPTURED AWAY..
Rather, they'd want to STAY and endure the Apoc with everybody else so that they could help them get through it, I know I'd want to stay and face down the Apoc like a man.
This passage clearly indicates that the Christian elect will be there in the thick of it standing their ground.
"If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive.
But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them." (Jesus of Nazareth, Mark ch 13)
Rather, they'd want to STAY and endure the Apoc with everybody else so that they could help them get through it, I know I'd want to stay and face down the Apoc like a man.
This passage clearly indicates that the Christian elect will be there in the thick of it standing their ground.
"If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive.
But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them." (Jesus of Nazareth, Mark ch 13)
phipps
Star
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2017
- Messages
- 4,887
Great Day Coming
The greatest anticipated moment in human history is about to happen. Jesus will return. On that day death will lose its power. Loved ones will be reunited, never to be separated again. That resurrection morning can’t come soon enough! On that wonderful day our nature will be transformed. The righteous dead will rise incorruptible and immortal (1 Corinthians 15:51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15).
Evil will cease; this world as we know it will be restored to the original conditions God intended; every trace of sin and death will be erased; God will dwell with us and wipe away the tears from our eyes. Think of it: no more dying, no more mourning, no more crying, no more pain (Revelation 21:4).
And through the ceaseless ages of eternity, humans will enjoy blissful fellowship with God and with one another in perfect harmony.
So let us watch and wait and not lose the certainty of our salvation and relationship with God. Let us not give up faith in Jesus and His soon return in spite of all the questions that cannot be fully answered. Our Christian journey and our lives should be determined with a clear goal with the help and comfort of the Holy Spirit.
We should take God’s Word seriously, study it, not expanding on it or omitting somethings that we do not like, living according to His Word.
We should take this good news to the every corner of the world and preach the gospel and Christ's soon coming because we have a short time left before He returns.
Our Lord will keep his promise to come back again for us. He told us in Revelation 22:20, "Surely I am coming quickly” and John's answer was, “Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!”
We look forward to that moment. What could be better than the return of our Lord?
The greatest anticipated moment in human history is about to happen. Jesus will return. On that day death will lose its power. Loved ones will be reunited, never to be separated again. That resurrection morning can’t come soon enough! On that wonderful day our nature will be transformed. The righteous dead will rise incorruptible and immortal (1 Corinthians 15:51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15).
Evil will cease; this world as we know it will be restored to the original conditions God intended; every trace of sin and death will be erased; God will dwell with us and wipe away the tears from our eyes. Think of it: no more dying, no more mourning, no more crying, no more pain (Revelation 21:4).
And through the ceaseless ages of eternity, humans will enjoy blissful fellowship with God and with one another in perfect harmony.
So let us watch and wait and not lose the certainty of our salvation and relationship with God. Let us not give up faith in Jesus and His soon return in spite of all the questions that cannot be fully answered. Our Christian journey and our lives should be determined with a clear goal with the help and comfort of the Holy Spirit.
We should take God’s Word seriously, study it, not expanding on it or omitting somethings that we do not like, living according to His Word.
We should take this good news to the every corner of the world and preach the gospel and Christ's soon coming because we have a short time left before He returns.
Our Lord will keep his promise to come back again for us. He told us in Revelation 22:20, "Surely I am coming quickly” and John's answer was, “Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!”
We look forward to that moment. What could be better than the return of our Lord?
Thunderian
Superstar
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2017
- Messages
- 7,515
Unless you accept that Jesus Christ is Lord, you will certainly get that chance.
Tidal
Star
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2020
- Messages
- 3,803
Tidal said- I know I'd want to stay and face down the Apoc like a man.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to clarify, the bible is clear that EVERY human on earth will have to go through the Apocalypse whether they're christian or not, and NOBODY will be able to escape it.
Then when it's over God will whisk all true christians off to heaven..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to clarify, the bible is clear that EVERY human on earth will have to go through the Apocalypse whether they're christian or not, and NOBODY will be able to escape it.
Then when it's over God will whisk all true christians off to heaven..
phipps
Star
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2017
- Messages
- 4,887
Preparation for the Second Coming of Christ
Jesus is coming back to this earth again (Acts 1:9-11). For this event we need to prepare (Amos 4:12).
Yet for most of us this blessed hope has very little impact on our day-to-day living. Our lives are filled with our daily routine, jobs, plans, projects, and aspirations, trying to fulfill our dreams for the future.
Young people are choosing careers that will guarantee good-paying, secure jobs. They find respectable careers that offer security and a good income. That is their main focus.
Many people feel that as long as you love the Lord, regularly attend church, pay your tithe, respect the Sabbath, assist from time to time with church work, and do not do anything really bad, Jesus will take care of you and you will be all right when He returns. Many go beyond this and reason that since we are saved by faith only, not by our works, what we do is not even important. Some feel that we ought not to worry about any special preparations for Jesus return, as long as we love Him. Jesus will come at His determined time, and we cannot do anything about it anyway.
But what does the Bible teach about preparing for the Second Advent? Is there any indication that we need to make special preparations for it beyond expressing faith and love in the Lord Jesus Christ?
The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins
"Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming" (Matthew 25:1-13).
Jesus was depicting the importance of being prepared for His second coming. Only five of the bridesmaids prepared by carrying additional oil. The five wise virgins, because of their preparation, got to experience all the joys of the wedding celebration. In reading the parable today, they represent those that have a personal relationship with Jesus and are actively preparing for His second coming. They will get to experience the joy of an eternity in heaven with Jesus. The fate of the five bridesmaids who neglected to prepare, was sealed when they failed to plan. The door to the celebrations was closed and they missed out!
Jesus uses this parable to warn us against the peril of not being prepared for His second coming. Just like no one knew the hour of the bridegroom’s arrival, we don’t know the day or hour of Jesus’ return but the Bible equips us with all we need to prepare. It doesn’t matter how much knowledge we have however, if we are frittering away our time and not living practical, Christ centred lives.
The foolish bridesmaids must have been crushed to be told, ‘I do not know you!’ Although they looked the part and gave the appearance of being ready, their failure to prepare was their ultimate downfall. How many respectable, highly regarded, circumspect church members, will be told, ‘I don’t know you!’
Let us all examine where we stand with Jesus and ask ourselves, would we be ready if Christ came to today.
Jesus is coming back to this earth again (Acts 1:9-11). For this event we need to prepare (Amos 4:12).
Yet for most of us this blessed hope has very little impact on our day-to-day living. Our lives are filled with our daily routine, jobs, plans, projects, and aspirations, trying to fulfill our dreams for the future.
Young people are choosing careers that will guarantee good-paying, secure jobs. They find respectable careers that offer security and a good income. That is their main focus.
Many people feel that as long as you love the Lord, regularly attend church, pay your tithe, respect the Sabbath, assist from time to time with church work, and do not do anything really bad, Jesus will take care of you and you will be all right when He returns. Many go beyond this and reason that since we are saved by faith only, not by our works, what we do is not even important. Some feel that we ought not to worry about any special preparations for Jesus return, as long as we love Him. Jesus will come at His determined time, and we cannot do anything about it anyway.
But what does the Bible teach about preparing for the Second Advent? Is there any indication that we need to make special preparations for it beyond expressing faith and love in the Lord Jesus Christ?
The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins
"Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming" (Matthew 25:1-13).
Jesus was depicting the importance of being prepared for His second coming. Only five of the bridesmaids prepared by carrying additional oil. The five wise virgins, because of their preparation, got to experience all the joys of the wedding celebration. In reading the parable today, they represent those that have a personal relationship with Jesus and are actively preparing for His second coming. They will get to experience the joy of an eternity in heaven with Jesus. The fate of the five bridesmaids who neglected to prepare, was sealed when they failed to plan. The door to the celebrations was closed and they missed out!
Jesus uses this parable to warn us against the peril of not being prepared for His second coming. Just like no one knew the hour of the bridegroom’s arrival, we don’t know the day or hour of Jesus’ return but the Bible equips us with all we need to prepare. It doesn’t matter how much knowledge we have however, if we are frittering away our time and not living practical, Christ centred lives.
The foolish bridesmaids must have been crushed to be told, ‘I do not know you!’ Although they looked the part and gave the appearance of being ready, their failure to prepare was their ultimate downfall. How many respectable, highly regarded, circumspect church members, will be told, ‘I don’t know you!’
Let us all examine where we stand with Jesus and ask ourselves, would we be ready if Christ came to today.
phipps
Star
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2017
- Messages
- 4,887
Second Coming of Christ
The second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel. The Saviour’s coming will be literal, personal, visible, and worldwide. When He returns, the righteous dead will be resurrected, and together with the righteous living will be glorified and taken to heaven, but the unrighteous will die. The almost complete fulfillment of most lines of prophecy, together with the present condition of the world, indicates that Christ’s coming is imminent. The time of that event has not been revealed, and we are therefore exhorted to be ready at all times.
The second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel. The Saviour’s coming will be literal, personal, visible, and worldwide. When He returns, the righteous dead will be resurrected, and together with the righteous living will be glorified and taken to heaven, but the unrighteous will die. The almost complete fulfillment of most lines of prophecy, together with the present condition of the world, indicates that Christ’s coming is imminent. The time of that event has not been revealed, and we are therefore exhorted to be ready at all times.
Axl888
Established
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2019
- Messages
- 413
The rapture of the elect is not a secret, other than the verses already mentioned on this thread, it is also mentioned in Revelation 14 (before the 7 bowl judgments)
Reaping the Earth’s Harvest
14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.
Then, the second coming of Jesus Christ is mentioned in Revelation 19 after the 7 bowl judgments
Christ on a White Horse (not to be confused with 1st of the 4 horsemen)
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [e]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.
Reaping the Earth’s Harvest
14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.
Then, the second coming of Jesus Christ is mentioned in Revelation 19 after the 7 bowl judgments
Christ on a White Horse (not to be confused with 1st of the 4 horsemen)
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [e]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.
phipps
Star
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2017
- Messages
- 4,887
How do I prepare for the Second Coming of Jesus?
“Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh” (Matthew 24:44).
God is a God of love. He loved us so much that He sent His Son to come and live on this earth and be tortured and crucified that we might be saved from this wicked world. He wants each individual to have eternal life with Jesus in a home where there will be no sorrow or heartache. If we are going to live with Jesus and be happy, we must be like Him. And this takes work.
On the way to the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus was conversing with His disciples: “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6). In order for us to be ready for the Lord’s soon coming, we must learn how to be like Jesus. What was Jesus like? If we study the four gospels in the New Testament, we get a good description of the Savior. A self-description is found in Matthew 11:29: “I am meek and lowly of heart.”
In Jesus’ sermon recorded in Matthew 7, He gives a depiction of the kind of people who would be in heaven. In our preparation, it would be well for us to put these characteristics into our lives. We cannot do this of our own power; we must ask for help from our Saviour, but he has promised in Matthew 7:7-8 that if you ask, you will receive.
“And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.” Matthew 5:2–12.
These are the characteristics that Jesus prizes and will be found in those who enter heaven. We must ask for the help of Jesus to implement these in our lives.
May God bless us as we strive to enter the kingdom.
“Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh” (Matthew 24:44).
God is a God of love. He loved us so much that He sent His Son to come and live on this earth and be tortured and crucified that we might be saved from this wicked world. He wants each individual to have eternal life with Jesus in a home where there will be no sorrow or heartache. If we are going to live with Jesus and be happy, we must be like Him. And this takes work.
On the way to the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus was conversing with His disciples: “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6). In order for us to be ready for the Lord’s soon coming, we must learn how to be like Jesus. What was Jesus like? If we study the four gospels in the New Testament, we get a good description of the Savior. A self-description is found in Matthew 11:29: “I am meek and lowly of heart.”
In Jesus’ sermon recorded in Matthew 7, He gives a depiction of the kind of people who would be in heaven. In our preparation, it would be well for us to put these characteristics into our lives. We cannot do this of our own power; we must ask for help from our Saviour, but he has promised in Matthew 7:7-8 that if you ask, you will receive.
“And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.” Matthew 5:2–12.
These are the characteristics that Jesus prizes and will be found in those who enter heaven. We must ask for the help of Jesus to implement these in our lives.
May God bless us as we strive to enter the kingdom.
phipps
Star
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2017
- Messages
- 4,887
Christ’s coming is described in one or two Bible verses as a thief. This, however, does not refer to how He comes, but when He comes. To those who are unprepared, it will be unexpected and a surprise. When a thief enters a house, he may tie the people up and there may be even gunfire and all kinds of noise, but he does not want anyone to know when he is coming. The coming of Jesus is described over and over as a surprise to this world. That is the way of a thief. It is going to be a surprise. “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:52). The word mortal means that you are subject to death. Immortal means that you are not subject to death. The second coming is described as literal, personal, visible, and audible (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).
phipps
Star
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2017
- Messages
- 4,887
What about the text about two being in the field (Luke 17:36)? The Bible does not teach that those left are left alive. The wicked are destroyed with the brightness of his coming. “For the great day of His wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand?” (Revelation 6:17). It says, “They hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, ‘Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!’ ” (Revelation 6:15-16). How many are going to be left alive? Nobody!
The Bible says, “And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse [Jesus] and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and the false prophet who worked signs in His presence by which He deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worship his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh” (Revelation 19:19-21).
When Jesus comes again, one of two things is going to happen. Either you will be saved, or you will be lost; there is no middle ground and there is no second chance. Each person, by then, will have made his/her decision for eternity. Jesus said that time will be like it was in the days of Noah. For one hundred and twenty years while Noah was building the ark he preached to the people what had been told him that the world was going to be destroyed by a flood. The masses did not believe him and scoffed at his message. Jesus said it will be the same in the last days. People will scoff at the soon coming of Christ and the judgment.
The Bible says, “And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse [Jesus] and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and the false prophet who worked signs in His presence by which He deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worship his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh” (Revelation 19:19-21).
When Jesus comes again, one of two things is going to happen. Either you will be saved, or you will be lost; there is no middle ground and there is no second chance. Each person, by then, will have made his/her decision for eternity. Jesus said that time will be like it was in the days of Noah. For one hundred and twenty years while Noah was building the ark he preached to the people what had been told him that the world was going to be destroyed by a flood. The masses did not believe him and scoffed at his message. Jesus said it will be the same in the last days. People will scoff at the soon coming of Christ and the judgment.