Women Vs Male Birth control

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@Sunshine

It is a woman's choice whether she wants to have the pregnancy or not (since she is the vessel)...but if we are truly talking "equal rights" then if a man WANTS the unexpected baby/pregnancy, and the woman doesn't...who has the right to make that decision?
simple the person who has to contend with carrying the fetus, the person who has to contend with all the issues that come with pregnancy, such as illness, injury and death, all of which can be and are permanent, thats who get sthe final say.

this does not mean men should not take some of the responsibility and why would they not want to, so many men moan about being trapped by women with pregnancies, by having vasectomies, condoms, spermicides or even eventually having their own pill they have a chance to stop this happening, yes no contraceptive is perfect, but at least they can having a fighting chance, instead of crying about those damned women who are after stealing their precious sperm,
 

Kung Fu

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how would men taking responsibility for their own fertility require women to relinquish their own reproductive rights? giving men more options with birth control would give men more choices, responsibility and yes control over how many children tehy have.

you clearly have some issues with women, women having the right to not get pregnant is not having it all, its having a choice they never used to have and by having that choice it actually helps society, less unwanted children, infanticide, pregnancy related deaths, this poverty and by giving men the same options then it also helps society, less childless fathers, abused children, men being forced into father hood, more money, less poverty.

but its pretty clear what your problem is, women being free and not under the thumb of men, while at the same time you cant -play the victim, if men are given responsibility for their own fertility and sexual reproduction
I don't know how many times I have to say this for you to understand. First, off men are not the ones that get pregnant. Second, women have all the reproductive rights meaning that if you decide to keep the baby the father has to comply either through helping the mother raise it and or provide child support even if the Father doesn't want the child. But you can also, abort the baby if you don't want it regardless of how badly the father would like to keep the baby.

I hope you can put it all together. It's not rocket science. Women have all the choices. They can do whatever they wish with the baby while the men are forced to comply with whatever the choice may be and if they don't comply they end up going to jail. Now with all those choices you also, have responsibilities. Now if you would like to forgo some of your reproductive rights such as abortion in the case where the father wants the baby than you would have a case for sharing responsibilities.

However, you want the "my body my rules" choices available to you but you also, want the responsibilities of those choices to be placed on men when they never had those choices to begin with.

Now tell me more about how I hate women.
 
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I don't know how many times I have to say this for you to understand. First, off men are not the ones that get pregnant. Second, women have all the reproductive rights meaning that if you decide to keep the baby the father has to comply either through helping the mother raise it and or provide child support even if the Father doesn't want the child. But you can also, abort the baby if you don't want it regardless of how badly the father would like to keep the baby.

I hope you can put it all together. It's not rocket science. Women have all the choices. They can do whatever they wish with the baby while the men are forced to comply with whatever the choice may be and if they don't comply they end up going to jail. Now with all those choices you also, have responsibilities. Now if you would like to forgo some of your reproductive rights such as abortion in the case where the father wants the baby than you would have a case for sharing responsibilities.

However, you want the "my body my rules" choices available to you but you also, want the responsibilities of those choices to be placed on men when they never had those choices to begin with.

Now tell me more about how I hate women.
and how are you not getting it if men use contraceptives or take responsibility then they wont have to worry about women taking their sperm and forcing children on them. but then that does not help your perpetual need to be a victim will it? if you take responsibility for you fertility and re-productiveness, then you cant play the victim, you cant act surprised when your suddenly forced to pay child support.
you dont want to take responsibility, you want to place it all on women so then you can play teh victim, cry about how unfair it is since women have had agency over their bodies.

slaves did not become free by removing responsibly and becoming the victim, women did not gain rights by relying on men more and shirking responsibility, both groups took on more responsibility and did everything possible to get freedoms, so why not try the same thing, wrap your penis before sex, get your tubes tied, don't have sex, use spermicide, check with her what point in her cycle she is at find out when she is at her fullest fertility.
 

Kung Fu

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and how are you not getting it if men use contraceptives or take responsibility then they wont have to worry about women taking their sperm and forcing children on them. but then that does not help your perpetual need to be a victim will it? if you take responsibility for you fertility and re-productiveness, then you cant play the victim, you cant act surprised when your suddenly forced to pay child support.
you dont want to take responsibility, you want to place it all on women so then you can play teh victim, cry about how unfair it is since women have had agency over their bodies.

slaves did not become free by removing responsibly and becoming the victim, women did not gain rights by relying on men more and shirking responsibility, both groups took on more responsibility and did everything possible to get freedoms, so why not try the same thing, wrap your penis before sex, get your tubes tied, don't have sex, use spermicide, check with her what point in her cycle she is at find out when she is at her fullest fertility.
What part of "women get pregnant and men don't" don't you understand? Also, like I keep saying forgo some of your reproductive rights and let men have a say, which I believe they should since it's their baby as well, and than the responsibilities can be shared. Can't have your cake and eat too. Until you learn to share you're getting nothing.
 
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What part of "women get pregnant and men don't" don't you understand? Also, like I keep saying forgo some of your reproductive rights and let men have a say, which I believe they should since it's their baby as well, and than the responsibilities can be shared. Can't have your cake and eat too. Until you learn to share you're getting nothing.
what part of pregnancy does not happen without the sperm do you not get, remove the sperm and the egg just ends up on a tampon. If you dont want to be a father use contraceptives.
and no men should not have a say in the outcome of the pregnancy because he is not the one whos body is used, if he has a say in the pregnancy then the woman loses bodily agency, her body is the one that feeds and grows the fetus, its her organs that are crushed, her body who experiences illness injury and possible death, the man made a choice when he refused or did not use contraceptive, now the woman choses if she keeps the pregnancy.

but keep going your just proving my point, that you just want to subjugate women while also playing the perpetual victim.
 

Vulpesrex

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I've heard the analogy "it's better to have the gun shooting blanks than having to wear a bulletproof vest" before regarding this issue.

I think it'd be cool if both temporary and permanent options were available to both genders for whomever might like them for whatever reasons they want it. And, of course, if you don't want birth control for whatever reasons, personal or religious, that's totally fine too. You do you, since starting a family is a gigantic, life-changing decision that should be between you and your partner/spouse.

My thoughts, in an ideal world.
 

morita

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Come to think of it, there is no reason that some scientist or pharmaceutical company couldn't make a pill to reduce a man's fertility
They've actually done it. They conducted a study on 320, a two-hormone injection designed to lower sperm count.
Guess what? They started whining and bitching about the minor side effects. They were given an opportunity to take back control and didn't take it, they would rather let women deal with the discomfort.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/11/03/500549503/male-birth-control-study-killed-after-men-complain-about-side-effects
For years, people have tried to create birth control for men. The World Health Organization commissioned what sounded like a promising trial, a two-hormone injection designed to lower sperm count. Initial results looked like it would be 96 percent effective in preventing pregnancy in the participants' partners.
 

morita

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simple the person who has to contend with carrying the fetus, the person who has to contend with all the issues that come with pregnancy, such as illness, injury and death, all of which can be and are permanent, thats who get sthe final say.

this does not mean men should not take some of the responsibility and why would they not want to, so many men moan about being trapped by women with pregnancies, by having vasectomies, condoms, spermicides or even eventually having their own pill they have a chance to stop this happening, yes no contraceptive is perfect, but at least they can having a fighting chance, instead of crying about those damned women who are after stealing their precious sperm,
Men have always been terrified about the innate power that women possess: their ability to give birth, they would gladly reinstaure harems to exert control over women if possible. To ensure women don't sleep around, to own them, to make sure their kid is for certain theirs, etc...
To the words of Camille Paglia, in her book Sexual Personae: “The female body’s unbearable hiddenness applies to all aspects of men’s dealings with women. What does it look like in there? Did she have an orgasm? Is it really my child? Who was my real father? Mystery shrouds women’s sexuality. This mystery is the main reason for the imprisonment man has imposed on women. Only by confining his wife in a locked harem guarded by eunuchs could he be certain that her son was also his.”
 

Kung Fu

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what part of pregnancy does not happen without the sperm do you not get, remove the sperm and the egg just ends up on a tampon. If you dont want to be a father use contraceptives.
and no men should not have a say in the outcome of the pregnancy because he is not the one whos body is used, if he has a say in the pregnancy then the woman loses bodily agency, her body is the one that feeds and grows the fetus, its her organs that are crushed, her body who experiences illness injury and possible death, the man made a choice when he refused or did not use contraceptive, now the woman choses if she keeps the pregnancy.

but keep going your just proving my point, that you just want to subjugate women while also playing the perpetual victim.
Thanks for admitting that you don't want to share the choices available to you. If not than live with the responsibilities. As long as woman have all the reproductive rights than just stop your whining and continue doing whatever helps with not getting pregnant. You want it all but in this life you can't have it all.

Yes, sperm is the father's but yet he doesn't get a choice. If the Father doesn't get a choice than why bother with any of the responsibilities.

Good luck with your endeavors. Too bad what you're asking will never happen as long as you want your cake and to eat it as well :)
 
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They've actually done it. They conducted a study on 320, a two-hormone injection designed to lower sperm count.
Guess what? They started whining and bitching about the minor side effects. They were given an opportunity to take back control and didn't take it, they would rather let women deal with the discomfort.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/11/03/500549503/male-birth-control-study-killed-after-men-complain-about-side-effects
For years, people have tried to create birth control for men. The World Health Organization commissioned what sounded like a promising trial, a two-hormone injection designed to lower sperm count. Initial results looked like it would be 96 percent effective in preventing pregnancy in the participants' partners.
so much this, the female pill form the get go has caused numerous deaths, caused hormonal issues, weight gain, mood changes, blood clots and a number of other issues, the IUD can cause severe pain, my sister had one fitted and ended up in hospital, the newest female contraceptive requires a womans arm to be cut open, and an implant placed inside her arm, yet when there are minor side effects for male contraceptives they care suddenly.
 
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Men have always been terrified about the innate power that women possess: their ability to give birth, they would gladly reinstaure harems to exert control over women if possible. To ensure women don't sleep around, to own them, to make sure their kid is for certain theirs, etc...
To the words of Camille Paglia, in her book Sexual Personae: “The female body’s unbearable hiddenness applies to all aspects of men’s dealings with women. What does it look like in there? Did she have an orgasm? Is it really my child? Who was my real father? Mystery shrouds women’s sexuality. This mystery is the main reason for the imprisonment man has imposed on women. Only by confining his wife in a locked harem guarded by eunuchs could he be certain that her son was also his.”
exactly mens egos are so fragile they have to control women, a woman only has worth as long as their bodies are used and for the benefit of men, breast are ok for advertisement and porn, but not for breast feeding, women's clitorises are chopped off, or omitted from medical text books, women are ignored or expected to suffer when they are in pain, medical trials for womens health arent even done on women, such as a trial for a cancer drug for uterine cancer, which was done on 12 men, because the medical industry dont trust women, women have died because doctors wont take their symptoms seriously, women's bodies are treated like a commodity for men and some men like kung fu see women having agency as victimhood for men.
 
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Thanks for admitting that you don't want to share the choices available to you. If not than live with the responsibilities. As long as woman have all the reproductive rights than just stop your whining and continue doing whatever helps with not getting pregnant. You want it all but in this life you can't have it all.

Yes, sperm is the father's but yet he doesn't get a choice. If the Father doesn't get a choice than why bother with any of the responsibilities.

Good luck with your endeavors. Too bad what you're asking will never happen as long as you want your cake and to eat it as well :)
your rights end at my body, pregnancy does not effect mens bodies just the women, so yes women get to chose, until men carry the child then men are omitted from the discussion, you have a choice, you have a choice not to let your sperm enter a vagina.

if you get to decide on the pregnancy you are removing women's autonomy so no you dont get a choice when it comes to what she does with her body or what grows in it
 

Kung Fu

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your rights end at my body, pregnancy does not effect mens bodies just the women, so yes women get to chose, until men carry the child then men are omitted from the discussion, you have a choice, you have a choice not to let your sperm enter a vagina.

if you get to decide on the pregnancy you are removing women's autonomy so no you dont get a choice when it comes to what she does with her body or what grows in it
Continue crying. As long as you hold all the choices and reproductive rights you're also, going to have burden the responsibilities which come with those rights and choices.
 
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Continue crying. As long as you hold all the choices and reproductive rights you're also, going to have burden the responsibilities which come with those rights and choices.
again with this victimhood, you do have choices, wear a condom, get a vasectomy, use spermicide, work with your partner to understand her cycle so you know when she is at her most fertile, dont have sex at all. these are all options, they all give you the power to control where and if your sperm enters a vagina.
you even have the right to start studies and experiments/medical studies to create new forms of contraceptives for men.
Your just using women's autonomy and rights as an excuse to not take responsibility, to pass the buck and to play the victim.
 
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Well, as a woman you have the power to decide who gets to have sex with you, or not.
As a prerequisite to sleeping with you, that person is at your mercy for whatever birth control system you intend to use.
So, it is ultimately up to the woman to decide what method of BC is used for the sexual encounter.

* Of course with the exception of r*pe or incest (then, like I said, off with their heads, lol).
men also have the right to decide if they have sex with someone, i dont get this argument, men arent sex robots that cant control themselves, the same goes for rapist excuses, if you dont want sex say no, if your worried she is being vindictive or faking being on birth control dont have sex, go to the bathroom have a cold shower or masturbate. no man is obligated to have sex.

and yes women do have the power to decide who has sex with them its called consent, however some women do not get the choice, after all it was in the 1990s that marital r*pe was finally made illegal in America and The United Kingdom, in some countries women are still forced onto sexual situations, sex trades, harems, and husbands force sex on women, in human society women are the ones treated as property and nothing but breeding machines or sex dolls.

Why are you turning men into victims, they are not at the mercy of women, they have options, condoms, spermicides, vasectomies, and the bog one no sex at all. Men are not victims, they can say no they can work their own contraceptives tehy are not at the mercy of sexual desires or women's vaginas. again women are not ultimately in control, men are just passing the buck so they can not only play the victim but also use it as an excuse for not taking responsibility for where their body fluids go
 
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I'm not taking sides.
I see both sides, here.
I don't think either party is blameless.
And as I've mentioned...r*pe and incest are definitely "off with your head" scenarios for men.
Let's be real.
Women are superior at linguistics and social intelligence.
They learn to talk sooner, and manage social interactions more smoothly, than their less adept counterparts.
In some ways I see men as lacking the refined social skills and nuances that women intrinsically possess.
You have to ask yourself, do you spend half of your day frittering your time away worrying about where you are going to "release" yourself?
I really believe that many men waste an inordinate amount of their time thinking about carnal things...
It is assumed that most women do not, and have more useful thoughts to occupy their minds with.
It is my observation that women generally hold the cards with how their power dynamic plays out within their own relationships and society.
As the saying goes...
Behind every great man, there's a great woman.
Why do you think that is?
And if you are to argue the opposite, I find that behind a great woman is usually a weaker man...
Strong women tend to pick weaker men, and weaker men, strong women. Or the reverse, weaker women, strong man. The yin and yang.
We need each other to make the world go round....
isnt that just babying men though, maybe girls and women are more adapt because they have to be, girls are taught from a young age they have to be grown up, they have to think about caring for others from a young age, are expected to grow up sooner and not act childishly. boys are told ''boys will be boys'' and are not forced into domestic servitude from a young age, girls are often taught cleaning and cooking as soon as they walk while boys go off and play.
perhaps stop treating boys and men like children and make them take responsibility for once
 
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Trying to regulate illicit sex is like trying to regulate the black market Not gonna happen.
simple, gove children a proper sex education, non of this shame, taboo, wrong, its sinful, sex is bad, abstinence only crap. give them the facts, teach them to use condoms, show them the realities of td's, pregnancy and costs, teach them sex is natural but you should take precaution, show them that enjoying masturbation is normal for boys and girls not something shameful, its private but natural. Also teach boys the facts about periods, cycles and how women's bodies work, not just men's bodies, this is an issue, so many men do not understand periods and women's cycles, stop treating women's periods like a shameful taboo.

in the UK we have an extensive sex education, it starts from the final year of primary school and goes through every year of secondary, it starts off basic, such as men and women are different and they grow hair and women have babies, to year 11 where children are taught how to put a condom on properly, using penis models and real condoms, they are taught the mechanics of sex, how to get contraceptives, relationship advice, but there is no shame, no taboo, no you will go to hell. we also have free contraceptives on the NHS and guess what sex is talked about openly, std's are at a lower rate, abortions are at a lower rate, men and women have the information and training to understand contraceptives are a two way road. sex isnt some hush hush taboo thats also treated like some magical experience, its just sex, there is no illicit sex, sex out of wedlock is just normal sex, no ones whipped in the streets for having natural urges, no ones shamed, killed or ostracized for having sex, and people have healthier attitudes towards sex.
 
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