Pope Francis - Man of Mystery

[Red Sky at Morning]

A lot of things seem to be falling in place Red. But I'm not setting any dates, but be ready in season and out of season.

Same here @Douglas Summers - we are in the season and it’s good enough for me!

 

[Tidal]

Wonder which bit of this the old duffer don't understand?-

"In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. On my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will speak." (Joel 2:28-32)

Paul said- "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28 )

 

[Tidal]

Jesus was always there for women..

..and he must have known that at the end they'd be-

 

[TokiEl]

Abp Viganò: Has Pope Francis now ‘disavowed’ being Vicar of Christ?

The Pope now seems to declare himself 'absolute monarch even with respect to Christ,' according to the archbishop.

Abp Viganò: Has Pope Francis now 'disavowed' being Vicar of Christ? - LifeSite

The Pope now seems to declare himself 'absolute monarch even with respect to Christ,' according to the archbishop.

www.lifesitenews.com

Our 20th century popes can't help but fulfil Paul's prophecy in 2 Thess 2 and this pope just figured out it's time to be God.

 

[Lisa]

Jesus was always there for women..

..and he must have known that at the end they'd be-

Jesus was/is there for everyone...even women.

‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:15‬ ‭
He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.​

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Pope demands vaccine access for the poor


Pope Francis has said the world's poorest people must have access to a coronavirus vaccine if one becomes available. "How sad it would be if access to a Covid-19 vaccine was made a priority for the richest. It would be sad if the vaccine became property of such-and-such nation and not universal for everyone," the Pope said during his weekly general audience from the Vatican. Teams across the world are working to develop a vaccine that will be effective against Covid-19.

 

[TokiEl]

1Tim 2 :11 Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression.

Women might mean well when they teach... but do not begin to argue with a man and definitely not the shepherde.

 

[Tidal]

1 Tim 3:1 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine...

1Tim 2 :11 Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

Firstly, yes a pastor must set a good example, and incidentally some Christians say Jesus never drank wine and that it was just "fruit juice", what are your views on that?

Secondly, nowadays there are many Christian women vicars and preachers/teachers around, why is that?

 

[Tidal]

The Bible doesn't forbid drinking wine or strong drink. It says don't get drunk or cause another to stumble. Jesus Himself drank wine.

Good answer, yet there was somebody in VC only a little while ago (I think it was Phipps) who said there were two kinds of wine in the bible, fermented (the real stuff) and unfermented (harmless fruit juice), and he swore blind that Jesus only drank the unfermented type.

As for verses like this one-
1Tim 2 :11/12 "Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet."
My reading of that is that Paul was simply laying down some ground rules for the early churches, possibly because some loud noisy women were using them as "drop-in centres" for coffee and gossip...

After all, this verse gives sensible women equal rights-
"In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. On my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will speak." (Joel 2:28-32)

 

[Tidal]

...the Bible is also super clear about the roles men and women play within the local church. Leadership/authority roles are very specifically for men only. There are no instructions or inclusions of women to those roles. It doesn't mean women are 'less than' or not equal. It simply means women [myself being one] have a different way to serve the congregation within the local church.

Are you catholic? If you're happy to make tea for everybody in the back room of the church while the men do the preaching out front, go ahead, but nowadays gals like these prefer to step up to the plate..

Church of England female clergy-

"Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and breathed his last. There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Magdalene and Salome, who followed him and ministered to him when he was in Galilee, and many other women who came up with him to Jerusalem" (Mark 15:37)

Some of his disciples ran off in fear of the Romans, but women stuck with him to the end-

 

[Tidal]

If you really want to make your case, then reconcile the Biblical instructions about male leadership and authority within the church.

Like I said, Paul was simply telling some noisy women in the early churches to shut their traps and stop treating the places like gossip drop-in centres..

 

[Tidal]

The Bible literally says this:
1Tim 2 :11 Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression.

Nevertheless, today there are thousands of Christian women preachers who believe that verse only applies to the noisy chatterbox women in the early churches..
I know some male preachers nowadays who are useless, and I'm sure some women preachers could do a much better job than them, for example a chap called Apollos had to be corrected by a couple of ladies-
"He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him and explained to him the way of God more accurately" (Acts 18:26)

Generally speaking, women are more emotional than men (and still are) and are therefore easier prey for satan, so perhaps satan was controlling the chatterbox women in order to disrupt churches, hence Paul's well-justified suspicion.

 

[Tidal]

The 'thousands of women preachers' is yet another example of modern rebellion to God, and maybe someday you will see the truth in that. No one can claim to follow Christ while ignoring and rebelling against His word at the same time. It's a dangerous path.

Remember it was Paul who banned women from speaking in churches, not Jesus..

 

[Bent8484]

Does anybody else get a mental picture of Pope Francis' head on James Bond's body from this thread's title? Maybe it's just me.

I should Photoshop this...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Does anybody else get a mental picture of Pope Francis' head on James Bond's body from this thread's title? Maybe it's just me.

I should Photoshop this...

The closest I could get....

 

[phipps]

Great question. The Bible doesn't forbid drinking wine or strong drink. It says don't get drunk or cause another to stumble. Jesus Himself drank wine.

Luke 7:33 “For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine; and you say, ‘He has a demon!” 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking; and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man, and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!”


Titus 1:7 Since an overseer is entrusted with God’s work, he must be blameless – not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness,



Titus 2:3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine.

Num 6:20 After that, the Nazirite may drink wine.

1 Tim 5:23 Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.


Ps 104:14 He makes grass grow for the cattle, and the plans for man to cultivate – bringing forth food from the earth: 15 wine that gladdens the heart of man…

Rom 14:20 Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. 21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.

Pro 23:20 Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, 21 for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags.

Biblical wine is definitely alcoholic, otherwise these passages would not exist. The Bible even defines wine vs. grape juice - they were not considered the same thing:

Num 6:1 The Lord said to Moses, “2 Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man or woman wants to make a special vow of separation to the Lord as a Nazirite, 3 he must abstain from wine and other fermented drink and must not drink vinegar made from wine or other fermented drink. He must not drink grape juice or eat grapes or raisins.

Gen 9:21 He drank of the wine and became drunk... 



Eph 5:18 And do not get drunk with wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. 



1 Sam 1:13 Eli thought she was drunk 14 And said to her, “How long will you keep on getting drunk? Get rid of your wine.”

It's a simple issue, really. If someone has a problem with alcohol, don't drink. If someone might cause another to stumble by drinking alcohol, don't drink. If someone understands that God created wine, that Jesus turned water into wine for the enjoyment of the wedding guests, and understands what drinking responsibly means - bottoms up!

There are passages of Scripture that at first glance might lead a person to think drinking a little fermented wine in moderation might be biblically condoned. It is not. The Bible has nothing positive to say about alcohol. We are not supposed to drink it at all even in small quantities biblically.

Two Types of Wine—Biblically Speaking

The word “wine” in the Bible sometimes refers to the new—or fresh juice of the grape; other times it is used to describe the aged or fermented product containing the drug alcohol. The translators never used the term “grape juice.” In the Hebrew text, the writers use different words to distinguish between the two. The word tîyrôsh is used for new unfermented wine, and yayin is generally used for fermented wine, but there were some exceptions (Isaiah 16:10). However, in the New Testament, only one Greek word is used to describe both fermented and fresh grape juice: oinis . But this shouldn’t be a problem. By simply understanding the context of the word in a passage, the appropriate meaning will usually surface. So unless the passage says old or new wine (as in Luke 5:37-39), the context will often tell us what kind of grape juice is being described.

One simple example occurs in Mark 2:22: “And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine bursts the wineskins, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins.” Obviously the new wine would be the fresh unfermented kind.

Additionally, from the Old Testament, in Isaiah 65:8, we read, “As the new wine is found in the cluster, And one says, ‘Do not destroy it, For a blessing is in it…’” It is clear in both these passages that the new wine is simply grape juice.

Confusing Verses Clarified

The whole of Scripture is clearly and adamantly against the consumption of alcohol, but human nature will look upon any textual ambiguity as a “loophole” to justify drinking alcohol.

An example of this reasoning is the wedding in Cana, where Jesus turned water into wine. “When the master of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the master of the feast called the bridegroom. And he said to him, ‘Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!’” (John 2:9-10). Those who support the intake of alcohol suggest this must have been alcoholic wine—after all, it was a wedding, and every wedding has wine—right? But let’s pause to consider the implications. There were six pots for Jesus to fill, and each of those would hold 20 to 30 gallons. That’s up to 180 gallons of beverage!

Are we to believe that Jesus made 180 gallons of a destructive drug—enough to get every guest drunk and launch this new marriage with slurring lips and staggering feet? Indeed, He would have been acting against His own Word! (Habakkuk 2:15; Luke 12:46; Ephesians 5:18). If we approach this passage relying on the whole of Scripture, we must surely come to the conclusion that Jesus made unfermented wine—and the governor of the feast complimented the groom on its pure quality. (John 2:4, 6, 10, Mark 1:24, 2 Samuel 16:10).

Was Jesus a Drunkard?

Pharisees frequently accused Jesus of being a winebibber, drunkard and glutton. They also said He had a devil and blasphemed God, among other things. We know He wasn’t a glutton or demon-possessed blasphemer! So if these things are not true, why should we assume that our Lord was a drinker as indicated by the Pharisees, a group of Jesus’ most-outward adversaries well known for their questionable theology?

They were merely contrasting His lifestyle with the austerity of John the Baptist, a practicing Nazarite, who abstained from anything of the vine and ate locusts and wild honey (Numbers 6:3; Luke 7:33–34, 1:15; John 8:48–52; Mark 2:7; Matthew 3:4).

When Jesus hung parched on the cross, Roman soldiers offered him fermented wine mingled with myrrh. But as soon as Jesus tasted it and recognized it was fermented, He refused it. If Jesus refused this beverage even as His body was tormented with extraordinary thirst, why would He have drank wine normally (Matthew 27:34)? (And more to the point, why then should we?)

Alcohol: The Bible Hall of Shame

The first reference to wine is found in Genesis when Noah, after the flood, created the original fermented grape juice. “Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent” (Genesis 9:21). The sad record is that Noah drank and stumbled around naked and shamefully exposed himself to his sons. This first experiment with a new drug ended with a scathing curse falling on Noah’s posterity.

Lot also drank, and he was therefore easily seduced into having incestuous relations with his daughters. “So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose” (Genesis 19:33). The offspring of this relationship became the nations of Moab and Ammon, the mortal enemies of God’s people. And there is no shortage of evidence today that alcohol often leads to sexual immorality—such as adultery, r*pe, and incest.

Then there is the infamous experience when the children of Israel drank alcohol, stripped themselves naked and worshiped a golden calf (Exodus 32:6, 25). This fermented “church social” ended in a horrible massacre.

Amnon, another drinker and the son of David, raped his half-sister Tamar. Because of this incestuous act, he lost his life at the hands of his enraged brother while intoxicated (2 Samuel 13:28).

These are only a few examples. For more about the terrible repercussions involving alcohol in the Bible, look at 2 Samuel 13:28, Job 1:13–19. Truly, when one considers the Biblical record of fermented drink, you have to wonder why would any genuine Christian argue in its defense!

Fermented Wine Brings Woe

The word “woe” is not used commonly today in the English vernacular. The word means deep distress or misery—as from grief and/or wretchedness. The Bible is found using the word in many different places; not surprisingly, the use of alcohol is often the reason why the word is used!

• “Woe to those who rise early in the morning, That they may follow intoxicating drink; Who continue until night, till wine inflames them!” (Isaiah 5:11).
• 
  
• “Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who hath complaints? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who linger long at the wine, Those who go in search of mixed wine.” (Proverbs 23:29-30).
• 
  
• “Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle, Even to make him drunk, That you may look on his nakedness!” (Habakkuk 2:15).

Does the Christian need any more condemnation of alcohol consumption than this? A very safe and simple rule for these issues is: “When in doubt, leave it out!”

Link

 

[Tidal]

I don't drink myself, tried a few drops of wine and other booze in my early teens but it all tasted like cat pee and I've never touched it since, I don't need it anyway..
But it seems to make other people happy so if they need it, it's none of my business as long as they don't overdo it.
For example my workaholic dad used wine to relieve his stresses and at first his face went all red and sweaty and he had a fixed stupid grin on his face and was friendly and funny, but as the evening wore on and he continued drinking, his face would change to a scowling devil and he'd try to start arguments with me and my mam.

 

[phipps]

Remember it was Paul who banned women from churches, not Jesus..

Paul does not ban women from church. Women and men just have different roles in church as in the home. Women cannot be leaders in church. Authority in church comes from the Word of God not Paul, which equates the spiritual authority of man over woman with the authority of Christ over church. Biblically men are the head of the family like Christ is the head of the Church. Wives should willingly acknowledge the headship of their husbands as should the church accept Christ's headship. Eve was created to be Adam’s “help meet” (Genesis 2:18). Thus from the very dawn of Creation, the role of a woman is to support her husband. This doesn't make Eve inferior to Adam. She just has a different role.

Genesis 3:16, "Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” This came directly from God, it did not come from Moses, King David, Peter, John, or even Paul. It is God’s own voice speaking.

1 Corinthians 11:3, "But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."

Ephesians 5:23-24, “For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.”

Titus 2:4-5, "that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed."

Biblically not all men are eligible to certain offices in church either. Paul wrote that elders or bishops are to be husbands; that is, men: “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife” (1 Timothy 3:2). Paul did not say that just any man could be a bishop or elder just as in the Old Testament not just any son of Aaron could be a priest. The office has always been limited. The Christian leader Paul spoke of must be ‘blameless’ and married, ‘vigilant, sober, of good behavior,’ etc. There is a long list of requirements that eventually eliminates most men and leaves only very few eligible.

Women aren’t the only ones who are ineligible to be elders and pastors; so are most men!

Women have important roles in God’s church and always have done throughout the ages, so even though men and women both serve the Lord in significant ways, God (not Paul) intended men and women to serve in different roles.

A woman should not assume the office of a pastor or elder within the church, it is clear that women are important to the church and do important things. The woman who fulfils the role God established for her is not inferior in any way to a man; rather, she is acting as a godly woman.

 

[Tidal]

The closest I could get....

View attachment 40500

Popey always reminds me of this bloke-

 

[phipps]

I don't drink myself, tried a few drops of wine and other booze in my early teens but it all tasted like cat pee and I've never touched it since, I don't need it anyway..
But it seems to make other people happy so if they need it, it's none of my business as long as they don't overdo it.
For example my workaholic dad used wine to relieve his stresses and at first his face went all red and sweaty and he had a fixed stupid grin on his face and was friendly and funny, but as the evening wore on and he continued drinking, his face would change to a scowling devil and he'd try to start arguments with me and my mam.

Alcohol even in small quantities destroys brain cells every time someone drinks. Do you think God didn't or doesn't know that? Hence we should not drink fermented wine according to the Bible. Yes life is stressful but alcohol should not be used to relieve stress. We should find other ways that are not as damaging or addictive as alcohol. And if someone drinks for years to relieve stress even though they don't get drunk, they can still be alcoholic. I know people who never get drunk but can't do without alcohol at the end of the day. They have to have their dose of alcohol. It is a drug after all.