Atheists And Morality

shankara

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The English wanted to set up peaceful colonies, but the redskins came looking for trouble, and continued troublemaking even when Americans tried to settle the land.
Below: a famous scene from 'Distant Drums'-

Seminole Chief- "Go home white man"
Gary Cooper- "You've had Florida for centuries and in all that time you haven't built a single golf course or theme park, so now we're taking it off you"


That's not the real story. Obviously you are completely ignorant about what actually happened. The natives mostly welcomed the English and helped them to survive. Please feel free to be an ignorant patriot with unsubstantiated and incorrect opinions in your own home, but try not to spread your disease to others. If you would like to stop being ignorant, I would again suggest that you read the book "American Holocaust". It might teach you a little more than western movies which are notoriously racist and biased against the natives.
 
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Speaking of disease, around 90% of Native American casualties died because Europeans brought new diseases (European and African) to which the natives lacked collective immunity.
 

Tidal

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western movies which are notoriously racist and biased against the natives.

Pot kettle-!
You said in an earlier post- "I'm not a Yanqui by the way, thank God".

So I looked up the term and found this definition-
The term "Yankee" and its contracted form "Yank" have several interrelated meanings, all referring to people from the United States.

No offence chum, but aren't you being a little bit racist towards Americans?.. :p
 

shankara

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Pot kettle-!
You said in an earlier post- "I'm not a Yanqui by the way, thank God".

So I looked up the term and found this definition-
The term "Yankee" and its contracted form "Yank" have several interrelated meanings, all referring to people from the United States.

No offence chum, but aren't you being a little bit racist towards Americans?.. :p
It's a term used a lot in South America to refer to the inhabitants of the land of Uncle Sam. To a certain extent the people of the USA are crazy people, and if they are among those who are not then they will certainly be able to understand why others would consider many of their countrypeople to be so.
 

shankara

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Speaking of disease, around 90% of Native American casualties died because Europeans brought new diseases (European and African) to which the natives lacked collective immunity.
I don't think it was quite that many, disease certainly killed quite a lot but actual extermination (and in Latin America working slaves to death) was responsible for a pretty huge number of casualties. Not to mention the British giving the Indians blankets infected with smallpox.

Actually many of the colonists considered that the land's original inhabitants dying of disease signified that God favored them over the "heathens".
 

Tidal

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To a certain extent the people of the USA are crazy people..

Admittedly they went temporarily insane when they voted Obama in for two terms, but they seemed to have regained their senses in 2016 when they made Trump the head honcho over there.. :D
 

Tidal

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To its credit the US tries to be a good samaritan by intervening to help deliver the poor downtrodden people from corrupt cruel regimes.. :)

"Oh, how comely it is and how reviving
To the Spirits of just men long opprest!
When God into the hands of their deliverer
Puts invincible might.."
- John Milton 1608-74
 

shankara

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To its credit the US tries to be a good samaritan by intervening to help deliver the poor downtrodden people from corrupt cruel regimes.. :)

"Oh, how comely it is and how reviving
To the Spirits of just men long opprest!
When God into the hands of their deliverer
Puts invincible might.."
- John Milton 1608-74
Again you know nothing, in fact they aided in installing military dictators.
 

Tidal

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Again you know nothing, in fact they aided in installing military dictators.

Mate, I'm a moderator at a military forum and like to think I know a little bit about war stuff, so it might be a good idea if you narrowed down what US interventions you're talking about so that we can examine your claims in detail.. :p
Also you've already admitted you're glad you're not an American, so perhaps you could tell us what race you are, and what country you live in, so that we''ll be able to understand what your agenda is.. :)
 

shankara

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Mate, I'm a moderator at a military forum and like to think I know a little bit about war stuff, so it might be a good idea if you narrowed down what US interventions you're talking about so that we can examine your claims in detail.. :p
Also you've already admitted you're glad you're not an American, so perhaps you could tell us what race you are, and what country you live in, so that we''ll be able to understand what your agenda is.. :)
The "counter-insurgency" (death squads) and overthrow of Arbenz in Guatemala.
The US-backed coup against Allende leading to the installation of Pinochet.
El-Salvador death squads.
Nicaragua anti-Sandanista death squads.
Disappearance of Aristide in Haiti.

These are the ones that I know a little about.

As for where I'm from, well actually I quite like the anonymity of the internet. But you can imagine that I'm an Afghan posting from a cave in the mountains if you wish, seeing as according to the narrative everyone who opposes the USA is "against freedom" and likely a terrorist.

EDIT: Please post responses in relevant thread:
 
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LieDestroyer

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Atheists, where do you get your morality and guidance from?
Morality is a tool humans have invented and adapted many, many times over the course of millenia to learn how best to co-exist with one another. We're a social species that is interdependent on one another to survive and thrive. Now, if an individual doesn't care about themselves or others surviving and thriving, then it's true, there's no "objective" rule we can point to in order to convince them they should care about that goal. But that person is quickly going to be very isolated and lonely, if not actually quarantined from the rest of society (because the rest of us generally do care about our common goal to survive and thrive).

Positing a deity as the source of our moral code really doesn't help the situation, because it simply pushes the question back a step: why should we care what the deity thinks? Why does the deity consider the goal of their system to be the goal? Divine Command Theory is a philosophical dead end, unfortunately.
 

Kung Fu

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Morality is a tool humans have invented and adapted many, many times over the course of millenia to learn how best to co-exist with one another. We're a social species that is interdependent on one another to survive and thrive. Now, if an individual doesn't care about themselves or others surviving and thriving, then it's true, there's no "objective" rule we can point to in order to convince them they should care about that goal. But that person is quickly going to be very isolated and lonely, if not actually quarantined from the rest of society (because the rest of us generally do care about our common goal to survive and thrive).

Positing a deity as the source of our moral code really doesn't help the situation, because it simply pushes the question back a step: why should we care what the deity thinks? Why does the deity consider the goal of their system to be the goal? Divine Command Theory is a philosophical dead end, unfortunately.
Nothing you said in your first paragraph shows how you have objective morality. Over the course of a 100 years the morality of secularists on quite a few things have changed let alone a millenia.

The Creator of everything knows humans inside and out and that alone is why you should care.
 

Alanantic

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Nothing you said in your first paragraph shows how you have objective morality. Over the course of a 100 years the morality of secularists on quite a few things have changed let alone a millenia.

The Creator of everything knows humans inside and out and that alone is why you should care.
I might mention that your belief in the morals of some Iron Age god is a subjective choice that you made.
 

Kung Fu

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I might mention that your belief in the morals of some Iron Age god is a subjective choice that you made.
Again, where's the part where you show me the morals which secularists follow are objective? Whereas with the religion I follow I can tell you my morals are objective because my Creator told me so. No questions asked.
 

Alanantic

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Again, where's the part where you show me the morals which secularists follow are objective? Whereas with the religion I follow I can tell you my morals are objective because my Creator told me so. No questions asked.
I don't think they are. Somebody else here may think so. Morals evolve with increasing understanding of life & society.

"A wise man changes his mind often, a fool never. To change your mind is the best evidence you have one.” ~ Desmond Ford
 

Kung Fu

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I don't think they are. Somebody else here may think so. Morals evolve with increasing understanding of life & society.

"A wise man changes his mind often, a fool never. To change your mind is the best evidence you have one.” ~ Desmond Ford
Islamic morals haven't changed in 1400 years. When it changes then you might have a point. The only morals which have changed for society are those governed by secularists and polytheists. If I'm wrong show me.
 

Alanantic

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Islamic morals haven't changed in 1400 years. When it changes then you might have a point. The only morals which have changed for society are those governed by secularists and polytheists. If I'm wrong show me.
I'm sure your 1400 year old morals could use a LOT of refining...
 

Kung Fu

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I'm sure your 1400 year old morals could use a LOT of refining...
Nothing in Islam needs refining which is why we have objective morals. Unlike secularists I believe things like r*pe, homosexuality, lying, and etc. are objectively bad.

Just save yourself the trouble and join Islam so you can have objective morals as well :)
 

Alanantic

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Nothing in Islam needs refining which is why we have objective morals. Unlike secularists I believe things like r*pe, homosexuality, lying, and etc. are objectively bad.

Just save yourself the trouble and join Islam so you can have objective morals as well :)
No. You're an idiot. I'm sorry. When you say crap like that, I really had no choice. Excuse me, I have to get back to my r*ping, lying, and reading muscle magazines...
 
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