Right and Wrong ways to reach the lost?

Todd

Star
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
2,525
So you can tell others what to believe, but they cant tell you?

Hypocrite.
I never tell people what to believe. I just try to explain what I believe and why and leave it at that. If someone can take something from what I say, great! If not, I'm not offended or hurt. We are all on our own path's and we will all see clearly in the ages to come.
 

Cintra

Star
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
Messages
3,224
I never tell people what to believe. I just try to explain what I believe and why and leave it at that. If someone can take something from what I say, great! If not, I'm not offended or hurt. We are all on our own path's and we will all see clearly in the ages to come.
I think that's a great attitude.
It makes dialogue possible.
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
Here is a Christian teaching of the subject for cross reference, unpacking the “packet” if you like that should give people who know an indication of his identity (should he show up)...
Should he show up ?

The Holy writ decides who the Antichrist is... not you nor anybody else.

Beware so you're not making more damage than good for the Kingdom of God.
 

Todd

Star
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
2,525
Todd that occurrence of when Peter preached to Cornelius and the first gentiles is recorded in the book of acts, and its the same author of the book of acts seems to legitimize Paul's apostleship and even records the disciples and Paul frequently convening and discussing matters of the the word of God.
At least you are acknowledging that the Book of Acts isn't proof of Paul's apostleship. If you remove the veil of indoctrination, the book of Acts is clearly evidence that Paul and the original disciples diasgreed on many things and there is never any record of agreement from the "discussions" you reference. Paul even arrogantly claims the Apostles in Jerusalem and their doctrines mean nothing to him in his writings. When look at from a purely objective viewpoint the book of Acts paints a strained relationship at best between the Apostles and Paul and a downright rivalry at worst, that makes todays disagreements between denominations and sects of Christianity look downh right tame.

As far as Luke's testimony goes in Chapter one of his gospel, he claims "it semed good to him" to record the events he witnesed. In other words Luke is stating (like Governor Cuomo does at the beginning of his Coronavirus updates) I'm just stating the facts. Luke makes no illusion that his writings are the inspired "Word of God". The book of Acts likewise is squel of the gospel of Luke. It was the instituational church of the second to fourth centuries that inflated the book of Acts to the status of the inspired Word of God.

So thats at the very least two books after the initial 4 gospels that confirm Pauls apostleship.
Yeah no. You are trying to deduce something that is not explicitly stated.

If one was led to believe that Paul's apostleship wasn't divinely appointed they would also have to completely disregard the book of acts or at the very least label it another fallible book w/ errors that somehow made into into the Bible.
I disagree. The Bible is man's infallible record of God's interaction with human's through the Hebrew nation of Isreal and the Hebrew Sect ("The Way") that spread the good news of the Messiah's work on the Cross and one rogue member of the Hebrew faith from the trive of Benjamin (the ravenous wolf) who ventured out to spread that good news to the Gentiles. The bible contains some of the direct "words of God" as recorded by man, but to claim every single word in the Bible is the actual word of God is quite ridiculous.

If God wanted us to have his perfect unadulterated word in a single book, he could have done a much better job than the convoluted, mistranslated, and corrupted book we have now. But the Bible with all it's imperfections is simply a part of the vast veiled journey we are on in this temporary age we know reside in. As Paul himself claimed, right now we see a dim reflection in mirror, but ihnthe ages to come we will see face to face. Right now we now in part, but in the ages to come we will know in full.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,933
No! lol!
They thought all the catholics were going to hell...

Fundamentalist evangelical protestants.

Part of the reason I am here is to try and make sense of everything that happened back then.
Which is why I find Lisa so interesting to talk to, as her views are very similar to the ones I grew up with.
Now that is an interesting one...

If you don’t mind me interjecting, it seems me that Catholics are not so much distracted from the clear gospel of the “three solas” by unbelief but by the extra things the Church teaches.

I had the chance so do a road tour of Ireland during the latter part of “the Troubles”, going from the south right to the north. In the south, I’m some areas there was a statue of Mary or a saint on street corners
Should he show up ?

The Holy writ decides who the Antichrist is... not you nor anybody else.

Beware so you're not making more damage than good for the Kingdom of God.
Don’t get me wrong @TokiEl - he will show up...

It is my belief that there are a good number of Biblical indications as to the identity of said AC. The source I posted up simply goes through these.
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
Don’t get me wrong @TokiEl - he will show up...

It is my belief that there are a good number of Biblical indications as to the identity of said AC. The source I posted up simply goes through these.
Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy is a precise timeline until the Christ and the Antichrist...
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
You might come off the same way to others if your religion was said to be that of the antichrist, and your scripture the devil's drivel.
Is the quran the Devil's drivel ?

Let's confer with the Holy writ...



Isaiah 14 12How you have fallen from the heavens

Helel ben sahar.

You have been cut down to the ground

O destroyer of nations.

13You said in your heart:


I will ascend to the heavens;

I will raise my throne above the stars of God.

I will sit on the mount of assembly, in the far reaches of the north.

14I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;

I will make myself like the Most High.


15But you will be brought down to Sheol,

to the lowest depths of the Pit.







Here is a prophecy about a fallen heavenly being who wants to be like the Most high... who will sit on the mount of assembly.

The mount of assembly is the mount where they assembled at the temple of God.

There the Devil will sit as if he is the Most high.



Fulfilled.
 

Lyfe

Star
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
3,639
At least you are acknowledging that the Book of Acts isn't proof of Paul's apostleship. If you remove the veil of indoctrination, the book of Acts is clearly evidence that Paul and the original disciples diasgreed on many things and there is never any record of agreement from the "discussions" you reference. Paul even arrogantly claims the Apostles in Jerusalem and their doctrines mean nothing to him in his writings. When look at from a purely objective viewpoint the book of Acts paints a strained relationship at best between the Apostles and Paul and a downright rivalry at worst, that makes todays disagreements between denominations and sects of Christianity look downh right tame.

As far as Luke's testimony goes in Chapter one of his gospel, he claims "it semed good to him" to record the events he witnesed. In other words Luke is stating (like Governor Cuomo does at the beginning of his Coronavirus updates) I'm just stating the facts. Luke makes no illusion that his writings are the inspired "Word of God". The book of Acts likewise is squel of the gospel of Luke. It was the instituational church of the second to fourth centuries that inflated the book of Acts to the status of the inspired Word of God.


Yeah no. You are trying to deduce something that is not explicitly stated.


I disagree. The Bible is man's infallible record of God's interaction with human's through the Hebrew nation of Isreal and the Hebrew Sect ("The Way") that spread the good news of the Messiah's work on the Cross and one rogue member of the Hebrew faith from the trive of Benjamin (the ravenous wolf) who ventured out to spread that good news to the Gentiles. The bible contains some of the direct "words of God" as recorded by man, but to claim every single word in the Bible is the actual word of God is quite ridiculous.

If God wanted us to have his perfect unadulterated word in a single book, he could have done a much better job than the convoluted, mistranslated, and corrupted book we have now. But the Bible with all it's imperfections is simply a part of the vast veiled journey we are on in this temporary age we know reside in. As Paul himself claimed, right now we see a dim reflection in mirror, but ihnthe ages to come we will see face to face. Right now we now in part, but in the ages to come we will know in full.
The account of what happened to Paul on the road to Damascus and his encounter with Jesus and even the record of when he revealed to Paul that he had personally chosen him(by divine appointment) as a proclaimer of the gospel and minister of the gentiles, I suppose that was also part of the book of acts that was fallible and that man got wrong?

If we are consistent with your stance one would have to eventually disregard acts altogether or believe it to be a writing that one has to carefully go into and cherry pick at their own direction which parts are accurate and which parts aren't, and if so many parts got it wrong one would have to ultimately conclude acts as a whole is written by a very unreliable author, making the whole book unreliable and unusable for reproof.

It baffles me how you can believe that the same God that can split the sea and create the world and a God who was zealous over the purity of his word cannot preserve the purity of his word in the Bible.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,933
Tbh, they thought everyone but themselves was going to hell.
It wasn't like they singled out catholics in particular.
The anglicans were just as damned.
JW's were damned.
Methodists
Any denomination that wasn't theirs.

Everyone damned but them.
I had a lady like that at the church I went to at the age of 17 - she epitomised everything that was wrong with the world to me. At 17 1/2 I was dating a non-Christian (from a freemasonic family) and I had left the church entirely. Fast forward a number of months and I was involved in a lifestyle I now regret and my heart was as hard as stone towards God, and especially other Christians.
 

Cintra

Star
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
Messages
3,224
I had a lady like that at the church I went to at the age of 17 - she epitomised everything that was wrong with the world to me. At 17 1/2 I was dating a non-Christian (from a freemasonic family) and I had left the church entirely. Fast forward a number of months and I was involved in a lifestyle I now regret and my heart was as hard as stone towards God, and especially other Christians.
I can totally relate!

Now I am old I am a lot more easy going. But when I first got away from them I was very angry. It took some time to work through it and decide that if I was allowed to believe what I want, then everyone was, and that had to included my parents and their group.

Since then I have come to appreciate the strength of their beliefs, and recognise the good in them. But it took a while.
 

Todd

Star
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
2,525
The account of what happened to Paul on the road to Damascus and his encounter with Jesus and even the record of when he revealed to Paul that he had personally chosen him(by divine appointment) as a proclaimer of the gospel and minister of the gentiles, I suppose that was also part of the book of acts that was fallible and that man got wrong?
And nothing in that experience confirms Paul as an Apostle. Paul himself describes the experience and says God told him he would be a witness. A witness is more in line with the function of an Evangelist than the function of an Apostle.

The fact that Paul's encounter is documented three times in scripture and contains contradictory details in all three, only proves my point that the Bible is the infallible record of man.

If we are consistent with your stance one would have to eventually disregard acts altogether or believe it to be a writing that one has to carefully go into and cherry pick at their own direction which parts are accurate and which parts aren't, and if so many parts got it wrong one would have to ultimately conclude acts as a whole is written by a very unreliable author, making the whole book unreliable and unusable for reproof.
That's your opinion. I use texts and books and sources of all types everyday in all areas of my life for correction, education, reproof, increase of knowledge, etc. I have never come across any book or writing that I believe is 100% correct and infallible. God gave me both an intellect and a conscience to use to discern truth and error. Of course I also pray to God and ask him to lead me by the Spirit.

It baffles me how you can believe that the same God that can split the sea and create the world and a God who was zealous over the purity of his word cannot preserve the purity of his word in the Bible.
It's not a question of whether he can or cannot. It's a question of whether he actually did it. It baffles me that you can read and study the present version of the Bible we have and believe that is the best that God can do!

I believe the purity of his word was preserved in the person of Jesus Christ, the Messiah. My worldview is shaped by the Bible and I believe the Bible contains God's words through many prophecies that were recorded. Most importantly I believe the words of Jesus himself are preserved in the Bible and carry more wait than any NT author.
 
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
1,607
I have been pondering your comment. I wonder if we might have an exchange of information? Do you have a good Islamic teaching on YouTube for the identity of the AC? Obviously I have a rather sketchy idea of what Muslims believe about his identity and what might make people recognise him.
I hope these short videos might be useful Red (let me know if you have any questions)

Description of the antichrist: www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkkQ9-_hynQ
The so-called "miracles" the antichrist performs: www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3w4V1BLNyA&feature=emb_title

(In Islam, the antichrist is better referred to as the 'Dajaal', i.e. the deceiver.)
 

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
Thanks for sharing that. You are certainly not the norm though. Most people who become genuine faithful disciples, who are actually transformed and live the gospel versus just "playing church", were influenced by real people who had a relationship with them and met a need of some sort (whether it be, physical, spiritual or emotional). The likelyhood of doing that online versus with people God has actually put around you physically is not that great.

I personally feel that saying one is called exclusively to preach online is an excuse for whatever reason keeps that person from actually being a loving and compassionate person to the people who are physically around them. Of course if someone is not loving and compassionate to begin with, they will not go out of their way to meet a need of the lost or hurting individuals around them. In fact they may be too self absorbed to even notice the needs of those around them.

If that's the case then they have bigger issues to deal with than the question of "the right way to reach the lost". LOL!
You go where God sends you...
Jonah‬ ‭1:1‬-2
The word of the LORD came to Jonah the son of Amittai saying, “Arise, go to Nineveh the great city and cry against it, for their wickedness has come up before Me.”
‭‭​
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,933
You go where God sends you...
Jonah‬ ‭1:1‬-2
The word of the LORD came to Jonah the son of Amittai saying, “Arise, go to Nineveh the great city and cry against it, for their wickedness has come up before Me.”
‭‭​
Share the gospel with anyone who will listen. Think about the Parable of the Sower. I think we have to live the reality of gospel before we can share it effectively, otherwise it comes over in the wrong spirit. Perhaps this Is at least the beginning of an answer to the OP?
 
Top