The egg and God

shankara

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1- Yes our western politicians are obsessed with getting their hands on every last drop of oil to make their tanks, bombers and warships GO, because without it they'd have to revert to fighting with sticks and stones again, right General?-

"Ugh"


Mind you, let's not forget private motorists crave the oil too to make their little tin boxes go.
Me, I've never owned or wanted a car so my conscience is quite clear.. :p
Do you drive?


2- WMD's could have been just a couple of flasks of germs capable of wiping out a dozen cities and Saddam could have easily hidden them in a hole out in the desert, or kept them under his bed and the weapon inspectors forgot to look there..:D


3- Don't forget that when they came to arrest Jesus, Peter drew his sword and whacked off the high priest's lackey's ear with it.
Same with muslim terrorists, we say to them-

Well yeah, maybe the Yankees fuelling their SUVs is a part of it, there are also the economic benefits of possessing large amounts of oil. Don't you think it's funny, by the way, that Europe and the US are on good terms with Saudi Arabia which is an actual theocratic dictatorship promoting Wahhabi/Salafi ideology whilst treating Iran, which is comparatively more liberal and open, as an enemy? Perhaps simply because Iran has the tenacity to criticize the USA, we can't be having that... Also in the case of the Iraq war there were the billions of dollars of reconstruction contracts given to US corporations, well, "crisis is opportunity" economically speaking...

As for the notion that Saddam had WMDs but was cleverly hiding them, well I think there you may have found a good justification for war against any country one feels like making war with. Perhaps, say, Ethiopia has such weapons and is very carefully hiding them? Just to be safe it might be worth making war on it.

Also, I believe that Jesus' reaction to the sword incident in Gethsemane was to tell the apostle not to do that and heal the ear of the wounded person. After all, Jesus was kind of into healing, rather than war, conquest, imperialism etc. Though I do admit I may have been a little hyperbolic with my last comment, it isn't like our governments are actually invading these countries as a crusade, unless there are some "Christian" fanatics among them disguising their real motives. Though the whole colonial enterprise had a lot to do with bringing the good news of the gospel to "heathens" at gunpoint.

Unfortunately for you I think Lisa is married and doesn't have a particularly liberal attitude towards divorce, nonetheless with you being English and especially if you read the Daily Mail, well it's a long shot but you just might be in with a chance.

Welcome to VC, by the way.
 

Tidal

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As for the notion that Saddam had WMDs but was cleverly hiding them, well I think there you may have found a good justification for war against any country one feels like making war with...

The first Gulf War in 1991 left Saddam sitting pretty in Baghdad, but he couldn't keep his trap shut and kept digging himself into a hole by spouting anti-western propaganda and promoting terror so we had to do the Iraq War in 2003 to shut him up.. :)

"Does America realize the meaning of every Iraqi becoming a missile that can cross to countries and cities?" - Saddam Hussein, September 29, 1994
"Oh sons of Arabs and the Arab Gulf, rebel against the foreigner...Take revenge for your dignity, holy places, security, interests and exalted values" - Saddam Hussein, January 5, 1999

"He who digs a hole and scoops it out falls into the pit he has made" (Bible: Psalm 7:15)


 

shankara

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The first Gulf War in 1991 left Saddam sitting pretty in Baghdad, but he couldn't keep his trap shut and kept digging himself into a hole by spouting anti-western propaganda and promoting terror so we had to do the Iraq War in 2003 to shut him up.. :)

"Does America realize the meaning of every Iraqi becoming a missile that can cross to countries and cities?" - Saddam Hussein, September 29, 1994
"Oh sons of Arabs and the Arab Gulf, rebel against the foreigner...Take revenge for your dignity, holy places, security, interests and exalted values" - Saddam Hussein, January 5, 1999

"He who digs a hole and scoops it out falls into the pit he has made" (Bible: Psalm 7:15)


Typical militaristic patriot, gun in one hand, Bible in the other! I'm not disputing that Saddam was a dictator and basically not a very decent human being. All I'm saying is that the death of two hundred thousand civilians is not a price worth paying to change a government. Anyway a lot of the problems in that region stem from how the colonial powers carved it up, unfortunately.
 

Lisa

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I bet he’s a Mossad asset lol. His ideology is the exact opposite of Christianity. All my Christian friends don’t talk like him and @Lisa

In contrast, they’re well educated and we never ever separate because of religion. We sometimes discuss, but always agree on most basic things.

The way they conduct is blaming one certain religion based on false claims made by the media they usually tend to refuse, except when it’s about Islam. Then they believe everything they state.
Are your “Christian“ friends, catholics?
 

Lisa

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A 6th grader should be able to understand context when put in front of them. For instance:

NT:
Matthew 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

OT:
Isaiah 7:
10 Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz, 11 “Ask the Lord your God for a sign, whether in the deepest depths or in the highest heights.” 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask; I will not put the Lord to the test.” 13 Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[c] a sign: The virgin[d] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[e] will call him Immanuel.[f] 15 He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. 17 The Lord will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—he will bring the king of Assyria.”

Before the child knows enough to reject the wrong and choose right, the land of the two kings YOU DREAD (i.e. Ahaz) will be laid to waste. So what is the context of this verse? That the sign was for King Ahaz, in regards to the two kings that were about to make war with him. Thats how simple it is to prove christianity wrong.

Your answer will be some type of gymnastics flip to where somehow, the sign that was for King Ahaz to show that at THAT TIME, God would be with him in the upcoming war all of a sudden becomes a sign for a man/god entity. And you believe it because you've never read the OT with the intent of believing it. You were taught the NT, and went back to the OT and superimposed the NT over it. Its literally the only way one can be a christian...



At the end of the day:

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Telling me Paul talked to Jesus is like telling me Buddha talked to Krishna.. So what? If you cant prove their word true using the law, then according to this verse, theres no light in what they're offering...
I actually started out reading the Bible cover to cover...

And actually when you see Jesus for who He is..the once for all sacrifice...Isiah 53 is clear as day to you.



Acts‬ ‭9:3-7, 10-19‬ ‭​
“As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do.” The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” And the Lord said to him, “Get up and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight.” But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem; and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake.” So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized; and he took food and was strengthened. N ow for several days he was with the disciples who were at Damascus.

I guess, we might still be guessing about Paul but when Ananias went and laid hands on him because Jesus ordered Him too...that was the corroborative story we needed to believe what Paul said was true.

Boring... Going from an eye for an eye to turn the other cheek is a change. Going for every man dies for their own sin to one man/god dies for everyone's sin is a change. So thats how its factual how the NT doesnt go with the OT. It changes the whole tenor of everything the OT stood for. Its why you cant prove most of the things you say using it...
Yet, God treated Cain very well considering, he didn’t give the right sacrifice and he killed his brother.

Genesis‬ ‭4:3-15‬ ‭​
So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground. Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering; but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” Cain told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him. Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” And he said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?” He said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to Me from the ground. Now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. When you cultivate the ground, it will no longer yield its strength to you; you will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth.” Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is too great to bear! Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and from Your face I will be hidden, and I will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” So the LORD said to him, “Therefore whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be taken on him sevenfold.” And the LORD appointed a sign for Cain, so that no one finding him would slay him.
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You said "we cant follow what is right" yet David, who was a murderer, was accepted of the Most High... So if the Most High accepted David, if its written that a righteous man falls down 7 times and gets up 8, then theres nothing to His standards being to hard to keep.
We can‘t keep God’s standards at all...there is always sin in our lives.

Its easy to say that the NT is the "rest of the story" just as its easy for a Muslim to say the Quran is the rest of the story to the NT. Its harder to prove it..
I did prove it..you won’t take the proof though.

All your NT is, is a gentile attempt to rewrite their ending. Let me know if you want me to continue with what the OT (not me) says will happen in regards to Israel/Gentiles in the last days...
Jesus is going into the milennium as King and He will rule with a rod of iron.

Revelation‬ ‭19:15‬ ‭
From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.​
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And it won’t be the Christians ..they will rule with Him..

Revelation‬ ‭20:4‬ ‭
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.​

It won’t be the Jews because they will be busy burying the dead...

Ezekiel‬ ‭39:11-16‬ ‭
On that day I will give Gog a burial ground there in Israel, the valley of those who pass by east of the sea, and it will block off those who would pass by. So they will bury Gog there with all his horde, and they will call it the valley of Hamon-gog. For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them in order to cleanse the land. Even all the people of the land will bury them; and it will be to their renown on the day that I glorify Myself,” declares the Lord GOD. “They will set apart men who will constantly pass through the land, burying those who were passing through, even those left on the surface of the ground, in order to cleanse it. At the end of seven months they will make a search. As those who pass through the land pass through and anyone sees a man’s bone, then he will set up a marker by it until the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamon-gog. And even the name of the city will be Hamonah. So they will cleanse the land.” 
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I’ve explained it to you over and over...sorry you can’t get a simple egg analogy..
Lol, call me a cynic, but I don't think Kung Fu is sorry he doesn't get the egg analogy. I think the same can be said for anyone who's reading this thread. :D
 

Lisa

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Lol, call me a cynic, but I don't think Kung Fu is sorry he doesn't get the egg analogy. I think the same can be said for anyone who's reading this thread. :D
He might be sorry one day...I think Red’s quote from Mark Twain is right on target here...
”It is much easier to fool people than to convince them that they’ve been fooled.”
 

Kung Fu

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I’ve explained it to you over and over...sorry you can’t get a simple egg analogy..
Yet you couldn't give me an answer or a rebuttal to my questions and posts. You live a life of contradiction.
 

Lisa

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Nonsense.
What do you mean nonsense? The first Christians were with Jesus. God inspired men like Peter, Paul and Matthew to write letters that would become the New Testament. Later the catholics came into it and muddied up the gospels and the interpretation to the interpretation of man....making up its own traditions and theology, not really understanding what God really meant...

Matthew‬ ‭15:8-9‬ ‭
THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.
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God inspired men like Peter
The first Pope.


Later the catholics came into it and muddied up the gospels and the interpretation to the interpretation of man....making up its own traditions and theology, not really understanding what God really meant...
Lol!

He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.

(2 Thessalonians 2:14-17)

Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many. Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

(1 Corinthians 12:12-31)

Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
Ephesians 2:19-22



Lisa, you don't follow the Church built by Jesus, you follow your own vain opinions and a clear false gospel.
 

Lisa

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20,288
The first Pope.




Lol!

He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.

(2 Thessalonians 2:14-17)

Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many. Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

(1 Corinthians 12:12-31)

Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
Ephesians 2:19-22



Lisa, you don't follow the Church built by Jesus, you follow your own vain opinions and a clear false gospel.
Peter was never a pope. And the man was married, it was Paul who wasn’t..someone got that wrong.

The verses you quoted don’t prove what you think they do.

The catholics have the false gospel and Mary is their queen.
 
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Peter was never a pope. And the man was married, it was Paul who wasn’t..someone got that wrong.

The verses you quoted don’t prove what you think they do.

The catholics have the false gospel and Mary is their queen.
Follow God, or continue to follow Satan as you have been, it's your choice.
 
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