Trump Presenting Peace Plan To Israeli Leaders

[Thunderian]

The reality is there could have been peace a long time ago if Israel had left the occupied territory, but Israel doesn't want peace.

Bullshit. The “occupation” didn’t start until 1967. What peace overtures did the Palestinians make before then?

 

[rainerann]

Bullshit. The “occupation” didn’t start until 1967. What peace overtures did the Palestinians make before then?

The reality is there could have been peace a long time ago if Israel had left the occupied territory, but Israel doesn't want peace. They have had no reason to stay in the illegal settlements for at least 40 years. Pre-1967 boundaries have been part of UN discussion and most Arab commentators that I have been reading agree that pre-1967 boundaries would be the better way to present a peace agreement. Israel wants annexation. They don't want peace.

 

[Thunderian]

The reality is there could have been peace a long time ago if Israel had left the occupied territory, but Israel doesn't want peace.

Bullshit again. Israel pulled every soldier and settler from Gaza in 2005 for the sake of peace. Hamas has been attacking Israeli civilians from Gaza ever since. Can you explain why that is?

 

[rainerann]

Bullshit again. Israel pulled every soldier and settler from Gaza in 2005 for the sake of peace. Hamas has been attacking Israeli civilians from Gaza ever since. Can you explain why that is?

From 2015

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Friday rejected the establishment of a Palestinian state with provisional borders, calling the proposal "totally unacceptable".

The establishment of an independent Palestinian state on the pre-1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital is an "irreversible" Palestinian quest, Abbas said in a speech he delivered at the World Economic Forum meeting at the Dead Sea.

According to media reports, Israel suggested the establishment of a Palestinian state with temporary borders, covering 60 per cent of the West Bank.

Such an interim agreement, reports said, would include a Palestinian state based on the pre-1967 lines with land swaps, so that major settlement blocs would remain in Israel.

Abbas, also chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organisation's executive committee, said Palestine's accession to international treaties and conventions does not "target any party" but has the sole aim of matching Palestinian institutions with international law.

Palestine ratified 14 UN conventions last year and has become a state party to the Geneva conventions regulating the conduct of armed conflict. The Israeli authorities have accused the Palestinians of sabotaging the US-sponsored peace talks.

"We are moving ahead with building the institutions of our state on the basis of the rule of law, democracy, pluralism and transparency," Abbas said, adding that efforts are under way to remove all obstacles to conducting elections and achieving reconciliation.

Stressing that the Palestinians do not interfere in the internal affairs of any country, the Fateh leader explained that the region is witnessing a variety of struggles under various titles threatening the territorial unity of some countries.

He also said that the spread of war and chaos in some regional countries has "opened the door" to terrorist organisations that use religion as a pretext to achieve their goals.

Abbas also said that the Ramallah government is working on rebuilding the Gaza Strip despite the "many obstacles" hindering the endeavour, and the Palestinian Authority has also worked, in coordination with international organisations, to secure humanitarian assistance for the Palestinian refugees in the Yarmouk camp in Syria.

In April, Daesh terrorist group took control of large parts of the camp in southern Damascus.

"We are adherent to just and lasting peace that can ultimately lead to the establishment of a Palestinian state on the pre-1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital on the basis of the two-state solution and the Arab Peace Initiative."

Palestinian state with provisional borders unacceptable — Abbas

DEAD SEA — Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Friday rejected the establishment of a Palestinian state with provisional borders, calling the proposal "totally unacceptable". The establishment of an independent Palestinian state on the pre-1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital is an...

www.jordantimes.com

A copy of the Arab Peace Initiative presented by The Guardian from 2002

The Arab Peace Initiative

The Council of the League of Arab States at the Summit Level, at its 14th Ordinary Session,

· Reaffirms the resolution taken in June 1996 at the Cairo extraordinary Arab summit that a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East is the strategic option of the Arab countries, to be achieved in accordance with international legality, and which would require a comparable commitment on the part of the Israeli government.

· Having listened to the statement made by his royal highness Prince Abdullah Bin Abdullaziz, the crown prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in which his highness presented his initiative, calling for full Israeli withdrawal from all the Arab territories occupied since June 1967, in implementation of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, reaffirmed by the Madrid Conference of 1991 and the land for peace principle, and Israel's acceptance of an independent Palestinian state, with East Jerusalem as its capital, in return for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel.

· Emanating from the conviction of the Arab countries that a military solution to the conflict will not achieve peace or provide security for the parties, the council:

1. Requests Israel to reconsider its policies and declare that a just peace is its strategic option as well.

2. Further calls upon Israel to affirm:

a. Full Israeli withdrawal from all the territories occupied since 1967, including the Syrian Golan Heights to the lines of June 4, 1967 as well as the remaining occupied Lebanese territories in the south of Lebanon.

b. Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194.

c. The acceptance of the establishment of a Sovereign Independent Palestinian State on the Palestinian territories occupied since the 4th of June 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza strip, with east Jerusalem as its capital.

3. Consequently, the Arab countries affirm the following:

a. Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region.

b. Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace.

4. Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries.

5. Calls upon the government of Israel and all Israelis to accept this initiative in order to safeguard the prospects for peace and stop the further shedding of blood, enabling the Arab Countries and Israel to live in peace and good neighborliness and provide future generations with security, stability, and prosperity.

6. Invites the international community and all countries and organizations to support this initiative.

7. Requests the chairman of the summit to form a special committee composed of some of its concerned member states and the secretary general of the League of Arab States to pursue the necessary contacts to gain support for this initiative at all levels, particularly from the United Nations, the security council, the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the Muslim States and the European Union.

Arab peace initiative: full text

This is the full text of an agreement reached at the Arab League summit in Beirut.

www.theguardian.com

The reality is there could have been peace a long time ago if Israel had left the occupied territory, but Israel doesn't want peace. Abbas is willing to adhere to the Arab Peace Initiative according to the article from the Jordan Times which includes:

a. Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region.

b. Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace.

 

[rainerann]

Wow. This is very big news, and fits exactly in with what I’ve been saying about Israel’s changing relationships with Muslim countries.

Netanyahu, Sudanese leader meet in Uganda, agree to start normalizing ties

***

www.haaretz.com

I really just wonder if you are reading these articles. This is another example where you are tooting your own horn that this is some example of how the Muslim world is tired of supporting the Palestinian cause, when it is nothing even close to this. It is even something that is again very selfishly motivated by Isreal.

From your article.

"Israeli sources have hinted that a formal normalization of ties will also help Israel in its attempts to deport Sudanese nationals seeking refuge in Israel. According to assessments by the UN, some 7,000 Sudanese individuals are currently living in Israel; 4,500 are originally from so-called "crisis areas" in Sudan, where most of the international community does not agree to have them deported.

Unlike Eritrea, where Israel had decided it would not deport back asylum seekers, the official stance regarding Sudanese asylum seekers is that what prevents their return is the lack of diplomatic relations between the two countries. The formalization of ties might change the Israeli position, despite the fact that international treaties forbid sending asylum seekers to conflict areas in Sudan and advise to look into each case individually."

So what you are essentially saying is that Netanyahu has found a more appealing way to deport the Sudanese refugees in Israel because Israel has been trying to do this for years. It is almost confusing that you are posting these articles.

This is literally from 2018

"Thousands of African asylum seekers are protesting an Israeli plan to deport them. The mostly Eritrean and Sudanese who illegally entered Israel will be expelled under the new plans.


The government has issued an ultimatum, telling them to leave the country by April 1 -- in exchange for $3,500 and a plane ticket -- or face indefinite incarceration.

As many of the migrants could be at risk of imprisonment if they returned to their home countries, Israel has offered to relocate them to an unspecified third country, known to be Rwanda."

Asylum seekers protest Israel deportation ultimatum

Israeli government threatens indefinite incarceration for those who don't comply with ultimatum for thousands to leave country by April 1

www.cbsnews.com

In addition to this, the Sudanese response to this is still in development. The Times of Israel is reporting

Sudanese PM says he had no idea about Netanyahu meeting Sudan’s prime minister says he was caught totally off-guard by a meeting between the country’s provisional leader and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, according to Sudanese journalist Wasil Ali.Abdalla Hamdok makes the comment to a coalition of Sudanese political and rebel leaders, according to the report.

Wasil Ali - واصل علي@wasilalitaha

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1224702225882210304

BREAKING: #SUDAN PM HAMDOK TOLD DELEGATION OF FORCES OF FREEDOM & CHANGE (FFC) HE HAD NO PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF PLANNED MEETING BETWEEN BURHAN & NETENYAHU IN UGANDA - SOURCE

https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1224702225882210304

Netanyahu says he held talks in Uganda with Abdul Fatah Al Burhan on Monday where the two agreed to start normalizing ties.

Burhan has yet to comment on the meeting.

On Monday, a government spokesman said the country’s cabinet also did not know about the meeting and was summoning Burhan for clarifications.

The meeting was also kept under wraps in Israel, where the military censor gagged it until late Monday.

Some in Sudan have protested the move to normalize ties with Israel, though others see it as a necessary step to be taken off of the US terror blacklist

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1224702225882210304

"Some in Sudan have protested the move to normalize ties with Israel, though others see it as a necessary step to be taken off of the US terror blacklist"

Sudanese PM says he had no idea about Netanyahu meeting

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

So again, this article does nothing to support your argument that the Arab world supports the peace plan given by Trump or that the Arab world has grown tired of the Palestinian cause. The people of Sudan legitimately deserve to have a fresh economic start since they have been able to remove the dictator Omar al-Bashir just last year.

This story is still in development and another example of where Israel has a vested interest in their "diplomatic" ventures. Even though Palestine is the only one quoted as having a response to this in your article, we will continue to see what the people of Sudan have to add in the next couple of weeks. It is really another example of where they have tried to make a PC version of what they were intending to do anyway.

They were intending to deport asylum seekers anyway. Now, they will be able to kick the people they want out without getting the same negative attention if people don't dig deeper into reality the situation. They were going to annex the occupied territory anyway. Now, the peace plan gives the impression that this is the way to achieve peace. It is really a whole lot of smoke and mirrors.

it is also important to realize that the people of Sudan were terrorized under their former leader. Yet, Israel is not expecting to need military authority or control of water distribution in their relations with a country guilty of committing these acts of terrorism when they are not interested in trying to annex land they are occupying illegally.

The reality is there could have been peace a long time ago if Israel had left the occupied territory, but Israel doesn't want peace.

 

[rainerann]

As I've been saying, the plan is the last one like this we'll ever see, and the Palestinians should take it. It's obvious that it's a way for Arab countries to wash their hands of the Palestinian issue, and let Israel do what it needs to do for it's own security. It's been an expensive waste of time for the Arab world, and now it's getting in the way of prosperity.

My assessment of this isn't gloating or wishful thinking. This is what I actually believe is going on, based on what I know, and what I see happening.

Requoting the comment that you made where you state that you believe that the Arab countries are trying to wash their hands of Palestine. Yet, you have not produced one example of when this happened or who has actually made any indication that their relations with Israel have anything to do with wanting to wash their hands of the Palestinian issue.

From the same quote

Here is a link to the White House page linking to statements from UAE, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Qatar and Bahrain, publicly voicing their support for a deal, and when I say a deal, I mean, if you read their language, it sounds like they will support any deal, at this point. The point is, those are five Arab nations that are openly recognizing Israel as a legitimate state. And as I've been pointing out, the mood in the Middle East is not nearly as anti-Israel as it once was. You can be sure Egypt and other countries are sending clear messages to the Palestinians, even if they're not saying it openly.

Another example that I clipped.

As I’ve been saying, the game is over. The Palestinians don’t have anyone to play with anymore, and the countries that own the equipment, and control the playing field, are in the parking lot, honking.

But everyone except the Palestinians now wants peace, and so this is how it’s going to happen, whether the peace-loving Palestinians want it to, or not.

It is obvious that you were posting these articles in order to support this notion that you have repeated over and over again. Although, none of the articles have been able to do this. You are basically spreading rumors that you can't actually support. The only article that you posted that addressed Palestine was the white house release of statements, which I quoted here as well. They all say something to the effect of thanks for trying to suggest peace. That is welcome, but peace needs to be something that the parties both agree on.

I think you need to reread these again because you basically make the claim that they are ready to break with Palestine if they don't accept the deal. I think it sounds like they are ready to break from the image that Islam and terrorism are synonymous. This was a stated reason in the article regarding Sudan for agreeing to talk with Israel. None of them are making a statement that they accept the plan at face value or that they think Palestine should.

 

[Daciple]

So what a conundrum for Republican Evangelicals huh? Or do all of you not see the insane hypocrisy of supporting Trump while he is engaging in trying to bring in a Peace Plan for Israel?

Personally, since I dont really subscribe to the ideology anymore, Trump and Israel are neither here nor there for me. However all you Pre Mill Dispensationalists, which is essentially every Republican Evangelical in America, woo whee, how is that cognitive dissonance feeling right about now?

So I know we have a few on this site, let me ask you, are you still supporting the AntiChrist? You gonna cheer the man on as he tries to bring Peace between Palestine and Israel? I mean according to your Theology, it is the AntiChrist that will actually get Israel to sign a Peace Agreement right?

However I know you all are 100% behind Trump politically, so what is a Pre Mill Dispensationalist Republican Evangelical to do?

Support Trump because he is moving America in the way you want him Politically, or reject him because he is essentially fulfilling the role of the Anitchrist if he continues on this path to peace in the Middle East?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

So what a conundrum for Republican Evangelicals huh? Or do all of you not see the insane hypocrisy of supporting Trump while he is engaging in trying to bring in a Peace Plan for Israel?

Personally, since I dont really subscribe to the ideology anymore, Trump and Israel are neither here nor there for me. However all you Pre Mill Dispensationalists, which is essentially every Republican Evangelical in America, woo whee, how is that cognitive dissonance feeling right about now?

So I know we have a few on this site, let me ask you, are you still supporting the AntiChrist? You gonna cheer the man on as he tries to bring Peace between Palestine and Israel? I mean according to your Theology, it is the AntiChrist that will actually get Israel to sign a Peace Agreement right?

However I know you all are 100% behind Trump politically, so what is a Pre Mill Dispensationalist Republican Evangelical to do?

Support Trump because he is moving America in the way you want him Politically, or reject him because he is essentially fulfilling the role of the Anitchrist if he continues on this path to peace in the Middle East?

I for one am glad I don’t have to make my mind up in the Trump and Kushner team. I have heard a spectrum of opinion on it, from Trump being God’s anointed “Cyrus” figure through to him being the prime candidate for the Antichrist!

I think it’s often hard for Christians to avoid the two opposite errors of being asleep at the wheel or jumping the gun when it comes to Bible prophecy. As I look back over my life, I can see times when I have done both.

I guess in the end, like all of us “ye shall know them by their fruits”, and if the fruit of these negotiations (or completely fresh future ones) leads to the specific fulfilment of the Daniel 9:27 covenant at some future point and a “person of interest” emerges, I’m sure it will lead to lively discussion for those of us remaining on VCF ;-)

 

[Lisa]

The reality is there could have been peace a long time ago if Israel had left the occupied territory, but Israel doesn't want peace. Abbas is willing to adhere to the Arab Peace Initiative according to the article from the Jordan Times which includes:

I don’t think it’s as easy as all that..

Zechariah‬ ‭12:2-3‬ ‭
Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah. It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it.​

‭‭

 

[Lisa]

So what a conundrum for Republican Evangelicals huh? Or do all of you not see the insane hypocrisy of supporting Trump while he is engaging in trying to bring in a Peace Plan for Israel?

Personally, since I dont really subscribe to the ideology anymore, Trump and Israel are neither here nor there for me. However all you Pre Mill Dispensationalists, which is essentially every Republican Evangelical in America, woo whee, how is that cognitive dissonance feeling right about now?

So I know we have a few on this site, let me ask you, are you still supporting the AntiChrist? You gonna cheer the man on as he tries to bring Peace between Palestine and Israel? I mean according to your Theology, it is the AntiChrist that will actually get Israel to sign a Peace Agreement right?

However I know you all are 100% behind Trump politically, so what is a Pre Mill Dispensationalist Republican Evangelical to do?

Support Trump because he is moving America in the way you want him Politically, or reject him because he is essentially fulfilling the role of the Anitchrist if he continues on this path to peace in the Middle East?

Why is Israel neither here nor there for you?

Eventually...at the right time, someone will get Israel to sign a peace treaty and then the temple will be rebuilt and sacrifices reinstated for 7 years. I don’t know that it will be trump that makes it happen. Prince William in England is also interested in peace there..if that means anything.

It seems that most Presidents lately make an attempt at trying to get a peace plan going and so far none have succeeded.

 

[Thunderian]

The reality is there could have been peace a long time ago if Israel had left the occupied territory, but Israel doesn't want peace.

As I said, Israel left Gaza completely 15 years ago, for a peace they are still waiting for. How can you say Israel doesn’t want peace, when they’re the only ones who have ever taken concrete steps toward it? Can you name a single thing the Palestinian side has ever done for the sake of peace?

 

[DavidSon]

Wow the faux-Christians at VC are mentally ill:

Israel’s Permanent Siege of Gaza - MERIP

The devastating human and health consequences of intervention by deprivation are noted in Ron Smith’s account of Israel’s decade-long siege of Gaza, whose dynamics are similar to the catastrophic sanctions regime imposed by the United States on Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War and the siege warfare...

merip.org

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315843374_Blockade_on_Gaza_Strip_A_Living_Hell_on_Earth

Israel's Gaza Blockade Is Killing Infants - Truthdig

In the Gaza Strip, a fourth of illnesses and more than a tenth of infant deaths, as well as many other problems, are tied to the blockade.

www.truthdig.com

https://www.fidh.org/en/region/north-africa-middle-east/israel-palestine/joint-letter-on-israel-s-unlawful-closure-and-blockade-of-the-gaza

Israel’s Attack on the Mavi Marmara and the Illegal Blockade of Gaza

Israel's attack on the Mavi Marmara on May 31, 2010, as the ship was attempting to break Israel's illegal blockade of Gaza, was a war crime.

www.foreignpolicyjournal.com

Gaza blockade posing serious threats to economic, social and cultural rights

mezan_gaza_blockade.jpg The ongoing blockade of the Gaza Strip, together with political divisions in Palestine, are presenting substantial barriers to the ability of Palestinians to enjoy their economic, social and cultural rights, said a report published by Al Mezan Center for Human Rights...

www.escr-net.org

Without Israel's blockade, Gaza would flourish

Comment: Gaza is a resilient and vibrant community that is poised to flourish. It's time to lift the blockade, writes Muhammad Shehada.

www.alaraby.co.uk

https://english.palinfo.com/news/2019/3/5/13-years-of-blockade-on-the-Gaza-Strip

 

[Lisa]

Wow the faux-Christians at VC are mentally ill:

Israel’s Permanent Siege of Gaza - MERIP

The devastating human and health consequences of intervention by deprivation are noted in Ron Smith’s account of Israel’s decade-long siege of Gaza, whose dynamics are similar to the catastrophic sanctions regime imposed by the United States on Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War and the siege warfare...

merip.org

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315843374_Blockade_on_Gaza_Strip_A_Living_Hell_on_Earth

Israel's Gaza Blockade Is Killing Infants - Truthdig

In the Gaza Strip, a fourth of illnesses and more than a tenth of infant deaths, as well as many other problems, are tied to the blockade.

www.truthdig.com

https://www.fidh.org/en/region/north-africa-middle-east/israel-palestine/joint-letter-on-israel-s-unlawful-closure-and-blockade-of-the-gaza

Israel’s Attack on the Mavi Marmara and the Illegal Blockade of Gaza

Israel's attack on the Mavi Marmara on May 31, 2010, as the ship was attempting to break Israel's illegal blockade of Gaza, was a war crime.

www.foreignpolicyjournal.com

Gaza blockade posing serious threats to economic, social and cultural rights

mezan_gaza_blockade.jpg The ongoing blockade of the Gaza Strip, together with political divisions in Palestine, are presenting substantial barriers to the ability of Palestinians to enjoy their economic, social and cultural rights, said a report published by Al Mezan Center for Human Rights...

www.escr-net.org

Without Israel's blockade, Gaza would flourish

Comment: Gaza is a resilient and vibrant community that is poised to flourish. It's time to lift the blockade, writes Muhammad Shehada.

www.alaraby.co.uk

https://english.palinfo.com/news/2019/3/5/13-years-of-blockade-on-the-Gaza-Strip

Gaza could flourish anyway...all the palestinians have to do is stop trying to blow up Israel and look to their own and their own interests and I bet they could flourish..and I even be the two countries could get along.

 

[Thunderian]

If Israel and Egypt weren’t controlling Gaza’s borders, you can be sure the death toll of innocent Israelis and Egyptians from Palestinian terror would be much higher. But yes, Christians are evil for wanting less death.

 

[rainerann]

As I said, Israel left Gaza completely 15 years ago, for a peace they are still waiting for. How can you say Israel doesn’t want peace, when they’re the only ones who have ever taken concrete steps toward it? Can you name a single thing the Palestinian side has ever done for the sake of peace?

Yes I saw that you tried to make an argument that hamas represents all Palestinians and I posted about Abbas and his willingness to accept the Arab peace initiative. The peace plan is not addressed to hamas. This has already been said.

Abbas is someone that should have more support. He is a very well educated man with a significant history of working towards peace efforts in the past. The peace deal and your comments are a delusional smack in the face. Abbas deserves more respect as someone who supports peace.

Mahmoud Abbas | Biography, Palestinian Authority, Two-State Solution, & Facts

Mahmoud Abbas is the president of the Palestinian Authority (2005– ). He was instrumental in laying the foundations for peace with Israel and for Palestinian self-determination, and he was a key negotiator of the Oslo Accords. His presidency, however, was plagued by deep factionalism and a...

www.britannica.com

 

[DavidSon]

Gaza could flourish anyway...all the palestinians have to do is stop trying to blow up Israel and look to their own and their own interests and I bet they could flourish..and I even be the two countries could get along.

Internet Troll: An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

 

[Lisa]

Internet Troll: An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Lol! How is what I said inflammatory? The palestinians could work on their own stuff and be a lot better off and happier for it. How is that bad?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I found out something I didn’t know about the present Palestinian leader*...

*No wonder the “Peace Process” is heavy going!



The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism

(Arabic: al-Wajh al-Akhar: al-'Alaqat as-Sirriya bayna an-Naziya wa's-Sihyuniya[1]) is a book by Mahmoud Abbas,[2] published in 1984 in Arabic.[2]

Spoiler: A review of contents

The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism (Arabic: al-Wajh al-Akhar: al-'Alaqat as-Sirriya bayna an-Naziya wa's-Sihyuniya[1]) is a book by Mahmoud Abbas,[2] published in 1984 in Arabic.[2] It is based on his CandSc thesis,[3] completed in 1982 at Patrice Lumumba University (now the Peoples' Friendship University of Russia) under the title The Connection between the Nazis and the Leaders of the Zionist Movement, and defended at the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Soviet Academy of Sciences.
In the book, Abbas argues that the Nazi-perpetrated Holocaust had been exaggerated. He further claimed that those Jews which were killed by the Nazis were actually the victims of a Zionist-Nazi plot aimed to fuel vengeance against Jews and to expand their mass extermination.[4] The book also discussed topics such as the Haavara Agreement, in which the Third Reich agreed with the Jewish Agency to facilitate Jewish emigration from Germany to Mandate Palestine.[3]

Portions of The Other Side have been considered as Holocaust denial by critics,[5] especially the parts disputing the accepted number of deaths in the Holocaust as well as the accusations that Zionist agitation was the cause of the Holocaust [6] a charge that Abbas denies.[7]

When Abbas was appointed the Palestinian prime minister in 2003, he wrote that the "Holocaust was a terrible, unforgivable crime against the Jewish nation, a crime against humanity that cannot be accepted by humankind" and that he does not deny it,[8] and said that "When I wrote The Other Side … we were at war with Israel. Today I would not have made such remarks".[9] However, in 2013 he reasserted that part of his thesis that "the Zionist movement had ties with the Nazis".[10][11]

Study at Patrice Lumumba University[edit]
Abbas attended at Patrice Lumumba University to prepare and present his doctoral thesis. The institute's director at the time, Yevgeny Primakov, appointed a Soviet specialist on Palestine, Vladimir Ivanovich Kisilev as Abbas' dissertation adviser. They communicated with mostly in English and Arabic.[3] In an interview with the magazine Kommersant 20 years later, Kisilev remembers Abbas as a well-prepared graduate student, who came to Moscow with an already chosen research topic and a large amount of already prepared material.[3]

The title of Abbas' thesis is The Connection between the Nazis and the Leaders of the Zionist Movement[12] or, in Russian, "Связи между сионизмом и нацизмом. 1933–1945".[13] In 1984, a book based on Abbas' doctoral dissertation was published in Arabic by Dar Ibn Rushd publishers in Amman, Jordan under the title al-Wajh al-akhar : al-`alaqat al-sirriyah bayna al-Naziyah wa-al-Sihyuniyah.

Content of the thesis and book[edit]
In the doctoral thesis, Abbas describes the number of Jews murdered in the Nazi Holocaust as agreed upon by mainstream historians, six millions, as inflated.[14][15][16]

In the book, he wrote:
It seems that the interest of the Zionist movement, however, is to inflate this figure [of Holocaust deaths] so that their gains will be greater. This led them to emphasize this figure [six million] in order to gain the solidarity of international public opinion with Zionism. Many scholars have debated the figure of six million and reached stunning conclusions — fixing the number of Jewish victims at only a few hundred thousand.[6]
In the book, he wrote:

Following the war, word was spread that six million Jews were amongst the victims and that a war of extermination was aimed primarily at the Jews . . . The truth is that no one can either confirm or deny this figure. In other words, it is possible that the number of Jewish victims reached six million, but at the same time it is possible that the figure is much smaller, below one million.[17]
Abbas quotes historian Raul Hilberg to support his claim that fewer than one million Jews were killed.[17][18][19][20] However, Rafael Medoff of the David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies denied the assertion that "The historian and author, Raoul Hilberg, thinks that the figure does not exceed 890,000", and said this is "utterly false". He wrote that "Professor Hilberg, a distinguished historian and author of the classic study The Destruction of the European Jews, has never said or written any such thing."[6]

Additionally, he claimed that Zionist activities antagonized the Nazis and contributed to hostilities:

The Zionist movement led a broad campaign of incitement against the Jews living under Nazi rule to arouse the government's hatred of them, to fuel vengeance against them and to expand the mass extermination.[4]
The thesis also discussed topics such as the Haavara Agreement of 1933, in which the Third Reich agreed with the Jewish Agency to enable Jews to emigrate from Germany directly to Mandate Palestine, which he sees as evidence of collaboration.[3]

A global survey of Holocaust denial, published by David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies in 2004, describes the book as "denying the Holocaust".[21]

Political controversy and Abbas' clarifications[edit]

After Abbas was appointed prime minister of the Palestinian Authority in 2003, the Israel Defense Forces removed excerpts from the Abbas book from its website, including quotes questioning the use of gas chambers and talking of less than one million victims.[4]

According to the Anti-Defamation League, the Simon Wiesenthal Center called for Abbas to clarify his position on the Holocaust in 1995, but he did not do so at that time.[22] Abbas' reported defence when asked about the book was telling: "When I wrote The Other Side… we were at war with Israel. Today I would not have made such remarks… Today there is peace and what I write from now on must help advance the peace process."[9][23]
In his May 2003 interview with Haaretz, Abbas stated:

I wrote in detail about the Holocaust and said I did not want to discuss numbers. I quoted an argument between historians in which various numbers of casualties were mentioned. One wrote there were twelve million victims and another wrote there were 800,000. I have no desire to argue with the figures. The Holocaust was a terrible, unforgivable crime against the Jewish nation, a crime against humanity that cannot be accepted by humankind. The Holocaust was a terrible thing and nobody can claim I denied it.[8]

According to the Ma'an News Agency, in an interview in 2013, Abbas defended his doctoral thesis regarding the relationship between the Zionists and the Nazis and said he "challenges anyone who can deny that the Zionist movement had ties with the Nazis before World War II."[10]

References[edit]
Jump up ^ al-Wajh al-Akhar: al-'Alaqat as-Sirriya bayna an-Naziya wa's-Sihyuniya. Publisher: Dar Ibn Rushd, Amman, Jordan. 1984.
^ Jump up to: a b National Library of Australia Catalogue detail.
^ Jump up to: a b c d e Аббас на глиняных ногах (Abbas on the feet of clay), Kommersant-Vlast No. 2(605), 17.01.2005) (Russian)
^ Jump up to: a b c Chris McGreal: Arafat forced to give up most powers to new PM The Guardian 19 March 2003.
Jump up ^ "Profile: Mahmoud Abbas". BBC News. 5 November 2009. Retrieved 21 November 2011.
^ Jump up to: a b c A Holocaust-Denier as Prime Minister of "Palestine"? by Dr. Rafael Medoff (The David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies)
Jump up ^ Akiva Eldar, "U.S. told us to ignore Israeli map reservations", Haaretz, 27 May 2003. [1]
^ Jump up to: a b Interview with Mahmoud Abbas by Akiva Eldar, Haaretz. May 2003
^ Jump up to: a b Soft-Spoken but Not Afraid to Voice Opinions, By GREG MYRE, NY Times, March 11, 2003
^ Jump up to: a b "Abbas: Israel agreed to let refugees into West Bank from Syria". Ma'an News Agency. 23 January 2013.
Jump up ^ 'Abbas claims Zionists, Nazis linked before WWII'
Jump up ^ Was Abu Mazen a Holocaust Denier? By Brynn Malone (History News Network)
Jump up ^ Аббас, Махмуд (lenta.ru) (Russian)
Jump up ^ Morris, Benny. Exposing Abbas. The National Interest. May 19, 2011
Jump up ^ Mass, Warren. "Clinton Meets with Abbas". The New American. March 4, 2009
Jump up ^ Latner, Gabriel. "Palestinian Peacemakers". The American Thinker. September 28, 2010
^ Jump up to: a b Holocaust Denial's Assault on Memory: Precursor to Twenty-First Century Genocide, H Brackman, A Breitbart, RA Cooper - Los Angeles: Simon Wiesenthal Center, 2007, p. 11
Jump up ^ Meir Litvak; Ester Webman (30 June 2012). From Empathy to Denial: Arab Responses to the Holocaust. Columbia University Press. p. 174. ISBN 978-0-231-70075-7. Retrieved 18 March 2013.
Jump up ^ Arafat's war: the man and his struggle for Israeli conquest by Efraim Karsh, 2003, page 98
Jump up ^ Holocaust denial as an international movement by Stephen E. Atkins, ABC-CLIO, 2009, page 214
Jump up ^ Alex Grobman (2004). "Holocaust Denial: A Global Survey - 2004".
Jump up ^ 1970s–1990s: Beginnings of Denial in Middle East Anti-Defamation League, 2001.
Jump up ^ Huggler, Justin (30 April 2003). "Palestinian PM has friends in Israel, enemies at home". The New Zealand Herald. Retrieved 21 November 2011.

It is based on his CandSc thesis,[3]completed in 1982 at Patrice LumumbaUniversity (now the Peoples' Friendship University of Russia) under the title The Connection between the Nazis and the Leaders of the Zionist Movement, and defended at the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Soviet Academy of Sciences.

The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Thunderian]

Yes I saw that you tried to make an argument that hamas represents all Palestinians and I posted about Abbas and his willingness to accept the Arab peace initiative. The peace plan is not addressed to hamas. This has already been said.

Abbas is someone that should have more support. He is a very well educated man with a significant history of working towards peace efforts in the past. The peace deal and your comments are a delusional smack in the face. Abbas deserves more respect as someone who supports peace.

Mahmoud Abbas | Biography, Palestinian Authority, Two-State Solution, & Facts

Mahmoud Abbas is the president of the Palestinian Authority (2005– ). He was instrumental in laying the foundations for peace with Israel and for Palestinian self-determination, and he was a key negotiator of the Oslo Accords. His presidency, however, was plagued by deep factionalism and a...

www.britannica.com

Abbas Admits: The PA is Behind All Terrorism

PLO Chairman Abbas admitted recently that the Palestinian Authority was behind all Arab terrorism in Israel. Unsurprisingly, his admission made the headlines nowhere.

en.mida.org.il

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Abbas Admits: The PA is Behind All Terrorism

PLO Chairman Abbas admitted recently that the Palestinian Authority was behind all Arab terrorism in Israel. Unsurprisingly, his admission made the headlines nowhere.

en.mida.org.il

PLO Chairman Mahmoud Abbas recently made an admission that the Palestinian Authority (PA) is behind all Arab terrorism in Israel. The admission made the headlines nowhere, except in Israeli and Jewish press:

“We have been paying salaries to the families of the Martyrs, to the prisoners, and to the wounded since 1965. This is because they were killed, imprisoned, or wounded because of a national interest and for the sake of a national interest, and not for personal reasons. It is our obligation to take care of their relatives” Abbas said.

His spokesman, Nabil Abu Rudeina, completed the admission. “Israel needs to understand this. It is impossible to send a soldier to war and then not take care of his family. We are talking about someone who acts on our behalf and receives orders from us” [emphasis added].