Trump Presenting Peace Plan To Israeli Leaders

Thunderian

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If I came in and stole your house and told you I’d give you a less desirable house in exchange but that in order to get THAT house you had to live by all these rules and requirements I decided on unilaterally or with the help of my big bully buddy what would you say?
That’s not what happened, and you should know that by now. No one kicked the Palestinians out. There are millions of Palestinian Israelis who are descended from Palestinians who chose to live in peace in Israel when it was created. If Jews came along and kicked everyone out, how did that happen?
 

Helioform

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So your a massive Zionist now too? That is, in simple terms - if not how it happened 70 years ago - how it feels to be happening to the people actually alive now.

This looks like a “state” to you? View attachment 31387
I'm not a Zionist at all but this plan is much much better than what has been proposed in the past. For the reasons I have said already. What would you want? That Jews just scram from the place and leave it all? This is a complicated issue.
 

justjess

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I'm not a Zionist at all but this plan is much much better than what has been proposed in the past. For the reasons I have said already. What would you want? That Jews just scram from the place and leave it all? This is a complicated issue.
Did you lok at the map? How is that a state? How is this BETTER? You seem to think the Palestinians should be happy with whatever scraps someone decides to throw at them.. that’s insulting. This “plan” is insulting.. and quite frankly a bit concerning that the people who wrote it are a Jewish American real estate developer and ISRAEL. Come on man..

Think about your personal life? Would you accept scraps? I wouldn’t. Not a chance in hell.
 

Helioform

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Did you lok at the map? How is that a state? How is this BETTER? You seem to think the Palestinians should be happy with whatever scraps someone decides to throw at them.. that’s insulting. This “plan” is insulting.. and quite frankly a bit concerning that the people who wrote it are a Jewish American real estate developer and ISRAEL. Come on man..

Think about your personal life? Would you accept scraps? I wouldn’t. Not a chance in hell.
How is that scraps? Their territory has been more than doubled. And this new Palestinian State in East Jerusalem could be the start of something more.
 

Wigi

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It will never fail to surprise me how many here seem to have a complete and total lack of insight into how criminals, thugs, bullies, and rich people operate..
I'm curious, do you think everything will be fine if all Israelis dismantled their state and choosed to emigrate in America?

I'm asking because I have the feeling that to be accused of being a zionist or shill someone just need to say 'Israel exist and should remain'. I think such accusations match with the definition of intellectual terrorism and that's how bullies in general censor dissenting opinions.
 

justjess

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I'm curious, do you think everything will be fine if all Israelis dismantled their state and choosed to emigrate in America?

I'm asking because I have the feeling that to be accused of being a zionist or shill someone just need to say 'Israel exist and should remain'. I think such accusations match with the definition of intellectual terrorism and that's how bullies in general censor dissenting opinions.
Lol... find one place where I ever said Israel shouldn’t exist. I think the creation of the state was wrong but I wouldn’t have Israelis leave their home at this point either. There’s a huge big space in between both extremes man. This plan doesn’t exist there.

As for if they all moved to America? I wouldn’t mind them living here, Ive lived in heavily Jewish areas my entire life up until recently. But no they shouldn’t have to move here and I would never propose that or anything even remotely similar.

I’ve known helio years, we agree on many things historically. His take on this plan is a bit bewildering. I know he is very pro Jewish, never been a problem for me. But to be able to see this plan through such an incredibly tinted lens with no seeming understanding or acceptance of the problematic aspects of it (practically the whole thing...).. wasn’t expecting that.

You, on the other hand. Idk you at all. And clearly you don’t know me.
 

justjess

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How is that scraps? Their territory has been more than doubled. And this new Palestinian State in East Jerusalem could be the start of something more.
And every single part of it noncontiguous with Israeli settlements right smack in the middle of every part of it, even the solid blocks have Israeli settlements playing polka dots all through them..

The state is not in east Jerusalem. You can see that right on the map, a map released by the trump administration for chrissakes..
 

Thunderian

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This looks like a “state” to you?
It’s more of a state than they’ve had to this point. If they had taken the opportunity to form a state 70 years ago, instead of trying to destroy the one the Jews built, they’d have even more, including all of Jerusalem.
 

UnderAlienControl

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And every single part of it noncontiguous with Israeli settlements right smack in the middle of every part of it, even the solid blocks have Israeli settlements playing polka dots all through them
 

Thunderian

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Just as a reminder to all. There was never a state, nation or people called Palestine. The area called Palestine today is the ancient home of the Jewish people, and “Palestinians” are descendants of immigrants from the surrounding Arab nations.

Jews have had a continuous presence in their ancestral land for thousands of years, but began moving back in serious numbers in the 1800’s. They bought land from those who owned it, and they reclaimed land from desert. They didn’t steal any, and anyone who claims they did needs to show how the Jews, who were greatly outnumbered by Arab immigrants, managed to take anyone’s land from them. Think about it. Palestinians routinely attack Jewish woman and children for the crime of being Jewish, let alone for any actual grievances, but we’re expected to believe that Arabs did nothing while Jews came and stole their land from under them?

In 1947, after Arabs refused to form a country with the Jews that were living in Palestine, the land was partitioned by the UN into Jewish and Arab areas, based on who was living where. The Jews took the opportunity, and the next year the nation of Israel was born. The Arabs in Palestine, along with most of the Arabs in the Middle East, attacked the Jews, losing the war, and more of their territory. They tried again a few more times, losing more of their land, including Jerusalem. Since then, they’ve been offered a state no less than six times, and have rejected it with violence each time. The fact that Israel is approaching 75 years as a nation, in the state they built, while the Palestinians are living on handouts in a broken “territory” is not Israel’s fault, but the fault of the Palestinians and their enablers.

All this is verifiable historical fact. It’s not the common narrative, but that’s what you get when leftist anti-semites run the media. Everyone should learn the facts, or at least stop spreading untruth.
 

Thunderian

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Envoys from Bahrain, UAE and Oman were at the White House for this. That’s big news.

Add to this the announcement that Israelis are now permitted entry to Saudi Arabia, and you can see that a massive shift has taken place in the relationship between Israel and the rest of the Middle East. I’ve been tracking this on other threads on this board, but it’s getting hard to keep up.
I meant to add that a Muslim delegation visited Auschwitz recently, too. If people don’t think there’s been a major shift in the relationship between Arabs and Jews in the Middle East, they’re not paying attention. This is why many people, including Arabs, are saying this is the Palestinian’s last chance for a state. Israel is no longer the most hated nation in the Middle East, and Arab nations are tired of supporting the corrupt and useless Palestinian leaders. They want peace and prosperity, and they see the way to that as through friendship and strong ties with Israel. As I said, I’ve been posting about this for awhile here, and if anyone wants to see the pattern that’s emerging, read the threads on this subject. Israel and the Arab states are making peace. If the Palestinians want a state — any state — they need to get on the peace train.
 

justjess

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It’s more of a state than they’ve had to this point. If they had taken the opportunity to form a state 70 years ago, instead of trying to destroy the one the Jews built, they’d have even more, including all of Jerusalem.
Take some scraps peasant. And kiss my feet for them in thanks.

It’s interesting to note you haven’t tried to defend the plan on its merits. Just a “better than nothing” shrug
 

Awoken2

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I meant to add that a Muslim delegation visited Auschwitz recently, too. If people don’t think there’s been a major shift in the relationship between Arabs and Jews in the Middle East, they’re not paying attention. This is why many people, including Arabs, are saying this is the Palestinian’s last chance for a state. Israel is no longer the most hated nation in the Middle East, and Arab nations are tired of supporting the corrupt and useless Palestinian leaders. They want peace and prosperity, and they see the way to that as through friendship and strong ties with Israel. As I said, I’ve been posting about this for awhile here, and if anyone wants to see the pattern that’s emerging, read the threads on this subject. Israel and the Arab states are making peace. If the Palestinians want a state — any state — they need to get on the peace train.
Who writes history the winners or the.losers? Your naivety is embarrassing. Carry on, your doing a great job
 

Thunderian

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I just wrote an entire post about why the Palestinians are in this position today. Go ahead and respond to that.
 
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