"Not Real Christians"

[Infinityloop]

God created man in His image and He created woman to be a helper to man.

Is God born into sin? Does Sin separate God from himself?
Was Jesus born into Sin?

 

[Artful Revealer]

They are praying to the wrong person so more than likely they aren’t saved. That is the deciding factor on whether or not you’ll be with God.

No Christian I know reserves prayer for Mary alone.

 

[Lisa]

And one that contradicts both the Bible and typical Christian practice.

If you ask someone to pray for you every Sunday at church, or you pray for someone else - then, according to Lisa's and Floss's argument, you're committing sin and idolatry.

But....

"as you help us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our behalf for the gracious favor granted us in answer to the prayers of many." - 2 Corinthians 1:11
"Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. " - James 5:14-16
"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" - Matthew 5:44

All these, plus more, are "Biblical" examples of intercession. The exception with Mary is that she isn't your sisters-mothers-best friend, nor is she your Pastor or guest speaker.
She is, according to all forms of trinitarian Christianity - the mother of God. The most pure and holy of all women.

How is she the most pure and holy of women? All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and that includes Mary. The verse doesn’t say all but Mary she isn’t excluded from that.

Sure, you ask a living person to pray for you. The dead can’t hear you or pray for you and Mary is dead. She can’t hear you or pray on your behalf, it is wrong to pray to her she is not God who can hear your prayers or intercede for you. It is Jesus who is our intercessor, He is God and He can hear you and intercede on your behalf.

 

[Lisa]

Is God born into sin? Does Sin separate God from himself?
Was Jesus born into Sin?

God doesn’t have any sin.
Jesus as human was born with a sin nature but because He was also God was able to fulfill the law and not sin.

 

[Lisa]

No Christian I know reserves prayer for Mary alone.

No real Christian prays to Mary.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Is God born into sin? Does Sin separate God from himself?
Was Jesus born into Sin?

As I understand it, the sin nature is passed on through the father... It makes all the difference to the Mary debate.

1 Corinthians 15:22 (KJV)

22 For as in Adam [not Eve]* all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

*added for clarity

Accordingly, Jesus was born without a fallen nature through the Immaculate Conception, but was also fully human through Mary.

 

[Artful Revealer]

How is she the most pure and holy of women? All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and that includes Mary. The verse doesn’t say all but Mary she isn’t excluded from that.

Not according to the Catholic Church:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin. 491

 

[Artful Revealer]

No real Christian prays to Mary.

Ah, the no true scotsman. Was wondering how long you would last without invoking that one.

 

[Lisa]

Not according to the Catholic Church:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin. 491

Thats not Biblical which is why I say that Christianity is not catholicism and catholicism is not Christianity. Catholics like the idea of praying to a mom but that’s not right and all have sinned, including Mary.

 

[Infinityloop]

Ah, the no true scotsman. Was wondering how long you would last without invoking that one.

Yes, the more it's invoked the more it asserts (for the Protestant side at least): there is "No real Christian!" or "No Christian!".

 

[Infinityloop]

Thats not Biblical

Neither are you though, nor am I. None of us are Biblical.

 

[Lisa]

Ah, the no true scotsman. Was wondering how long you would last without invoking that one.

What? It’s true...when you read the Bible there is nothing in it telling you to pray to Mary or worship her or love her because she is the mom of Jesus. But the NT is full of verses about the Father and Son and Holy Spirit and an example of Jesus praying to the Father. But nothing adding Mary into it and making her a goddess.

 

[Lisa]

Yes, the more it's invoked the more it asserts (for the Protestant side at least): there is "No real Christian!" or "No Christian!".

There are real Christians and fake ones...wolves in sheep’s clothing.

 

[Infinityloop]

There are real Christians and fake ones...wolves in sheep’s clothing.

And the real ones follow the One Universal Apostolic Christian church, and the rest follow 50 billion little cults. All of the cults can do is claim that the one true church is a heresy, yet they themselves are the heretics who can't agree over even a single interpretation of a verse from the Bible they hold so dear.

 

[Artful Revealer]

Thats not Biblical which is why I say that Christianity is not catholicism and catholicism is not Christianity. Catholics like the idea of praying to a mom but that’s not right and all have sinned, including Mary.

Show me in the Bible where Mary has sinned.

 

[Lisa]

Neither are you though, nor am I. None of us are Biblical.

That we are sinners...that’s Biblical.

Romans‬ ‭3:23‬ ‭
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.​

‭‭

 

[Infinityloop]

That we are sinners...that’s Biblical.

Sure but we're not Biblical, so no. Whether we're sinners or not, we're not in the Bible, which is problematic. If we're not in the Bible, then where are we?

 

[Lisa]

Show me in the Bible where Mary has sinned.

Romans‬ ‭3:23‬ ‭
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.​

She isn’t the exception...

 

[Infinityloop]

But nothing adding Mary into it and making her a goddess.

In your view, hypothetically, if she was...would you worship her?

 

[Lisa]

And the real ones follow the One Universal Apostolic Christian church, and the rest follow 50 billion little cults. All of the cults can do is claim that the one true church is a heresy, yet they themselves are the heretics who can't agree over even a single interpretation of a verse from the Bible they hold so dear.

Jesus told us that there would be deceivers glad teachers and false prophets and to be on the alert to not be deceived.