Spiritual Warfare: The Battle of the Messages

[Red Sky at Morning]

So many times we have a mental image of things that are entirely different from their reality. I think one such area is in spiritual warfare. People picture all kinds of things when this is mentioned, from films like The Exorcist to specialist deliverance ministries. One aspect I had honestly never thought of as being spiritual warfare is the battle of messages.

It is an interesting thought that “Spiritual Warfare” is primarily a battle against lies.

God may say one thing through the Bible, the enemy may say hundreds of others through the many means available, from false religions to overpaid entertainers. Like it or not, the battle comes to our front door, and we will either be defeated or learn how to use the armour and weapons we have been given against it...

 

[Axl888]

In spiritual warfare, the battlefield is the mind, it is where satan targets his prey to devour...his weapons of choice:

- the corrupted mainstream media (tv, radio, music, film, print)​

- the internet​

- the corrupted academe​

- the corrupted church​

- strange religions/ideologies​

 

[Douglas Summers]

It is an interesting thought that “Spiritual Warfare” is primarily a battle against lies.

The Scriptures bare this out: For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds, Casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalteth itself AGAINST THE KNOWLEDGE of God, and bringing into captivity, every thought to the obedience of Christ (2 Cor. 10:3-5).

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age (corrupt and lying governments...including Catholicism). Against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Where God's kingdom should rule).(Eph. 6:11-20). In fact, Sin started out with a lie (Gen. 3:1-6) And God said that he was a liar and a murderer from the beginning, and the dragon is still at it.

 

[Infinityloop]

God may say one thing through the Bible

the darkness of this age including Catholicism

Once again brings to mind the question of why you believe in the Catholic concept of a 'canon', and this entire thread once again: https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/if-the-vatican-is-the-antichrist-then-why-do-you-trust-the-bible.6419/

@Red Sky at Morning what you term "spiritual warfare" just isn't. You keep displaying the inability to understand that things have consequences. There are people out there that hate Christianity (I'm not one, although you love to put me in that box and make me dance for you), people that do are the result of many things. Once you narrow it down to such a misunderstood dichotomy of "they just deceived", you will denied the ability to have humility and to also rationally understand to yourself why you are "not deceived".
A person, through proper study and prayer could indeed come to reject Christianity or maybe even God entirely. To you put it upon yourself to be a mini-Pope and Excommunicate that person claiming they 'were never a real Christian' etc. This is a common defense mechanism by your types but it goes nowhere. People do leave Christianity and they have their reasons.
Now, as I mentioned consequences, to diagnose people that are opposed to Christianity as 'deniers of the truth' or as 'working for the devil' or any other kind of rhetorical pejorative you Christians sling meaninglessly at everything, is denying accountability, and a religion needs to be able to own up for where it falls short.
Once you box yourself into solely an 'us vs them' construct, you have in reality, joined a cult of some kind. Your mind imprisons itself because it tries to immunize itself from being aware of things that cause critical thought, self-awareness, make it uncomfortable, or simply that you may be a person of weak faith who cannot face the idea of an "exChristian".
Spiritual warfare comes from a lot of things and many places you would not suspect. Now, as you may recall from Romans 8:28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.", do you believe this? Do you know what it means to 'love God'?

Now, along with that last point. Is "loving God" a belief thing, or an experience thing? if the former, we run into problems, and if the latter, then the very doctrine of the Trinity falls apart because there is no Trinity to 'know', only God and God-only.

If you are not able to ask questions, then we return back to Matthew 7:26.

Now, as for Matthew 7:15-20, could this indeed be those who claim to have the only true form of Christianity? (without rational justification of such a position). People who reject the Church and invent their own Christianity's while claiming to have the only true Christianity? (aka, you Protestants). Think over it, at least.


I will bless you, even though you curse me and I will wish you glad tidings, even though you persecute me.
Infinityloop

 

[Douglas Summers]

Once again brings to mind the question of why you believe in the Catholic concept of a 'canon', and this entire thread once again: https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/if-the-vatican-is-the-antichrist-then-why-do-you-trust-the-bible.6419/

@Red Sky at Morning what you term "spiritual warfare" just isn't. You keep displaying the inability to understand that things have consequences. There are people out there that hate Christianity (I'm not one, although you love to put me in that box and make me dance for you), people that do are the result of many things. Once you narrow it down to such a misunderstood dichotomy of "they just deceived", you will denied the ability to have humility and to also rationally understand to yourself why you are "not deceived".
A person, through proper study and prayer could indeed come to reject Christianity or maybe even God entirely. To you put it upon yourself to be a mini-Pope and Excommunicate that person claiming they 'were never a real Christian' etc. This is a common defense mechanism by your types but it goes nowhere. People do leave Christianity and they have their reasons.
Now, as I mentioned consequences, to diagnose people that are opposed to Christianity as 'deniers of the truth' or as 'working for the devil' or any other kind of rhetorical pejorative you Christians sling meaninglessly at everything, is denying accountability, and a religion needs to be able to own up for where it falls short.
Once you box yourself into solely an 'us vs them' construct, you have in reality, joined a cult of some kind. Your mind imprisons itself because it tries to immunize itself from being aware of things that cause critical thought, self-awareness, make it uncomfortable, or simply that you may be a person of weak faith who cannot face the idea of an "exChristian".
Spiritual warfare comes from a lot of things and many places you would not suspect. Now, as you may recall from Romans 8:28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.", do you believe this? Do you know what it means to 'love God'?

Now, along with that last point. Is "loving God" a belief thing, or an experience thing? if the former, we run into problems, and if the latter, then the very doctrine of the Trinity falls apart because there is no Trinity to 'know', only God and God-only.

If you are not able to ask questions, then we return back to Matthew 7:26.

Now, as for Matthew 7:15-20, could this indeed be those who claim to have the only true form of Christianity? (without rational justification of such a position). People who reject the Church and invent their own Christianity's while claiming to have the only true Christianity? (aka, you Protestants). Think over it, at least.


I will bless you, even though you curse me and I will wish you glad tidings, even though you persecute me.
Infinityloop

Hi Infinity, Your philosophy is the very things we fight against with the Truth of the Spirit. Salvation is a Supernatural Power of regeneration....To understand what we post, You must be born again. You are always trying to philosophy Scripture text when it speaks true to it self. To answer one of your questions, Yes, we know what it is to love God, But that only comes when we see what we really are in nature.

 

[Infinityloop]

Hi Infinity, Your philosophy is the very things we fight against with the Truth of the Spirit.

You're not helping here, only repeating the following:

Spoiler: What I said in my previous post

Once you box yourself into solely an 'us vs them' construct, you have in reality, joined a cult of some kind. Your mind imprisons itself because it tries to immunize itself from being aware of things that cause critical thought, self-awareness

You've gone back to square one declaring "I'm right, your wrong, you cannot question me". This is not healthy and it concerns me.
Your beliefs and right to a religion or worldview is not at all my issue and I hope that you realize this. I don't even fundamentally even have any quarrels with the Trinity when it comes down to it (even though I stridently oppose that Catholic doctrine). It is you and your fellow Christian's insistent truth claims with strict refusals to explain justification of holding so tightly, narrowly and antagonistically to said truth claims without justification.

Do you see what you, and your peers here, are doing?

"I'm right because I'm right because I'm right because I'm right because I'm right because I'm right because I'm right because I'm right because I'm right because I'm right because I'm right because I'm right because I'm right because I'm right because"

You are always trying to philosophy Scripture text when it speaks true to it self.

I am not 'philosophying' anything. This is very basic stuff. I don't want to go pulling out the kinds of arguments Atheists make but it might be relevant to explaining this to you.
Sure, I could talk extensively about philosophy if you wanted but I am not speaking of any philosophy or philosophical system at all here per se. This is part of erroneous errors with what Axl888 has been doing on several threads, by regarding any kind of defense other than "my interpretation is correct, no questions asked" is seen as an example of what he sees Colossians 2:8 speaking about (he's wrong too but that's beside the point).
Can you simply just not see the problem here?

Anyway, my other response to your post here is that scripture is defacto philosophical. Philosophy, cosmology, metaphysics, morals/ethics, dogma, ideology, politics and many other things are all immensely bound up in most religions. To deny this fact is just dishonest. There are very few religions that don't explore all of these things, and more, and also by implication, in their worldviews. It's a shame you don't realize this.
One clear example is that eschatology itself is politics. Eschatology informs political and ideological views, as well as expectation for the future. Again, this is a clear example.

 

[Axl888]

Hi Infinity, Your philosophy is the very things we fight against with the Truth of the Spirit. Salvation is a Supernatural Power of regeneration....To understand what we post, You must be born again. You are always trying to philosophy Scripture text when it speaks true to it self. To answer one of your questions, Yes, we know what it is to love God, But that only comes when we see what we really are in nature.

Matthew 13:11-17

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the [a]mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I [b]should heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

 

[Infinityloop]

Matthew 13:11-17

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the [a]mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I [b]should heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
- Matthew 7:21-23

"The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge,
for the ears of the wise seek it out."
- Proverbs 18:15

"Blessed is the one who finds wisdom, and the one who gets understanding"
- Proverbs 3:13

"Folly is joy to him who lacks sense, But a man of understanding walks straight."
- Proverbs 15:21

Jesus said to them, “I did one miracle, and you are all amazed. Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a boy on the Sabbath. Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath? Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”
- John 7:21-24

"The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it."
- Proverbs 22:3

"Desire without knowledge is not good, and whoever makes haste with his feet misses his way."
- Proverbs 19:2

"Then I turned my thoughts to consider wisdom,
and also madness and folly.
What more can the king’s successor do
than what has already been done?
I saw that wisdom is better than folly,
just as light is better than darkness.
The wise have eyes in their heads,
while the fool walks in the darkness;
but I came to realize
that the same fate overtakes them both."
- Ecclesiastes 2:12-14

 

[Lisa]

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
- Matthew 7:21-23

"The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge,
for the ears of the wise seek it out."
- Proverbs 18:15

"Blessed is the one who finds wisdom, and the one who gets understanding"
- Proverbs 3:13

"Folly is joy to him who lacks sense, But a man of understanding walks straight."
- Proverbs 15:21

Jesus said to them, “I did one miracle, and you are all amazed. Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a boy on the Sabbath. Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath? Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”
- John 7:21-24

"The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it."
- Proverbs 22:3

"Desire without knowledge is not good, and whoever makes haste with his feet misses his way."
- Proverbs 19:2

"Then I turned my thoughts to consider wisdom,
and also madness and folly.
What more can the king’s successor do
than what has already been done?
I saw that wisdom is better than folly,
just as light is better than darkness.
The wise have eyes in their heads,
while the fool walks in the darkness;
but I came to realize
that the same fate overtakes them both."
- Ecclesiastes 2:12-14

You aren’t going to be happy with any answer unless you are being told you’re right. Why can’t you be the one that is wrong?

 

[Infinityloop]

You aren’t going to be happy with any answer unless you are being told you’re right.

About what?

 

[Lisa]

About what?

Anything having to do with Christianity. If you can’t change our minds then we are in the wrong it’s not because you are.

 

[Infinityloop]

Anything having to do with Christianity. If you can’t change our minds then we are in the wrong it’s not because you are.

I've never attempted in the slightest to change anybody's minds on anything, that's not in my nature. However, this is exactly what every single one of the Christians on this forum want of me, to convert to your exclusivist ideology.

My whole point is to urge you and your peers to actually discuss your reasoning on these issues related to truth claims, for the better of both of us. Who knows, a thoughtful argument or rational elaboration might even win me over to your religion.

 

[Lisa]

I've never attempted in the slightest to change anybody's minds on anything, that's not in my nature. However, this is exactly what every single one of the Christians on this forum want of me, to convert to your exclusivist ideology.

My whole point is to urge you and your peers to actually discuss your reasoning on these issues related to truth claims, for the better of both of us. Who knows, a thoughtful argument might win me over to your religion.

Ya we do want you to be saved but we can’t make you believe, just keep telling you what we believe.

I doubt a thoughtful argument will win you over, many have tried. Just because you didn’t think it wasn’t a thoughtful argument on our part doesn’t mean that it wasn’t. You’ve had many Christians here attempt to discuss with you why we believe what we believe. We’ve given you a lot of time and effort in trying to honestly answer your questions and you are still complaining about us not listening to you and taking what you say as truth over what we know to be true. So it seems to me that you have been trying to win us over to your side and won’t be happy until one of us yells uncle. That is why you have started thread after thread trying to disprove something of every argument with us.

I hope you’ll be saved for your sake not mine.

 

[Infinityloop]

Ya we do want you to be saved but we can’t make you believe, just keep telling you what we believe.

I doubt a thoughtful argument will win you over, many have tried. Just because you didn’t think it wasn’t a thoughtful argument on our part doesn’t mean that it wasn’t. You’ve had many Christians here attempt to discuss with you why we believe what we believe. We’ve given you a lot of time and effort in trying to honestly answer your questions and you are still complaining about us not listening to you and taking what you say as truth over what we know to be true. So it seems to me that guy have been trying to win us over to your side and won’t be happy until one of us yells uncle. That is why you have started thread after thread trying to disprove something of every argument with us.

I hope you’ll be saved for your sake not mine.

I'm going to have to assume your post was just in jest. Have a nice day.

 

[Lisa]

I'm going to have to assume your post was just in jest. Have a nice day.

No it was the thoughtful response to your post that you say we don’t do.

 

[DavidSon]

Matthew 13:11-17

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the [a]mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I [b]should heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

lol you think this verse ordains Christians in the west as high priests, like the Pope thinks he is?

One of the first teachings in the Bible is that Jesus spoke the secret of His parables only to the disciples. Mark 4:34.

The disciples were those who had sold their possessions, left their homes, living without food or money. The repeated message throughout the Gospels was that to be in His order and receive the esoteric meanings, you had to live as an ascetic. Ownership, possessions, and physical pleasure were death to the Apostles and early prophets.

You can's see the parallel between the unworthy mass of people 2000 years ago to popular Christianity? It's obscene how removed modern culture is from the original holy purity of the Essenic way of life. The disciples were a secret society, highly dedicated to spiritual advancement. Now we have people who are the least awakened barking commercialized interpretations of ancient scripture. They don't live like Jesus and they don't have the training to comprehend ancient Middle Eastern thought. We've loaded up dozens of foreign theories above the sayings of Jesus and now the original truth is unrecognizable. Do we seriously expect younger people not to see how hypocritical and fraudulent the movement became?

In my view the representatives of Jesus Christ are the brothers and sisters who give themselves to Monasticism. Up until the Reformation the Monastic communities were vibrant sources of learning and culture. I found this small article which has a nice summary of the history: https://www.northumbriacommunity.org/articles/asceticism-and-monasticism/

If you ain't walking the talk then I say relax and speak with people like the regular person you are. No one here is better than anyone else. The way some people share their ideas online, like they're the high priest of "God's only truth", it's creepy. Writing with pseudo-spiritual phrases pretending to be the single one who can interpret the Bible is not right, and it only turns others away.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Do you see what you, and your peers here, are doing?

Your post has not changed a thing about your indifference to the Truth. We are doing is contending for the faith, a faith that you are trying to explain in carnal reasoning. The only ones that are turned away are those who want to believe what they determine is the Gospel. You are incensed because I do not agree with your self willed religious redirect. You must be born again...really!

 

[Todd]

However, this is exactly what every single one of the Christians on this forum want of me, to convert to your exclusivist ideology.

I haven't made up my mind about this statement yet. I'm not sure if I should take it as a compliment assuming you don't consider me a Christian, or take it as a false accusation assuming you consider me a Christian. LOL!

Either way, dismissing myself and one or two others here I do think your statement does apply to most of the Christians on this forum.

 

[Lisa]

I haven't made up my mind about this statement yet. I'm not sure if I should take it as a compliment assuming you don't consider me a Christian, or take it as a false accusation assuming you consider me a Christian. LOL!

Either way, dismissing myself and one or two others here I do think your statement does apply to most of the Christians on this forum.

Maybe infinityloop wasn’t talking about you?

 

[Todd]

Maybe infinityloop wasn’t talking about you?

Brilliant observation @Lisa. If you re-read my post perhaps you will be able to see it's basically a veiled attempt to ask @Infinityloop if he considers me a Christian or not. I already know you don't, so don't bother answering the question.