Infinityloop
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- Jul 20, 2019
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Because Axl888 did not make any points, he just showed that the New Testament writers referenced passages from Exodus (’ehyeh ’ăšer ’ehyeh), which everyone already knew (hence I pointed out elsewhere here that they also quoted Isaiah quite often in those four Bios of Jesus included in the canon).
I've encountered Christians regularly insulting Muslims, Jews and people of other religions for seeing the Trinity doctrine as illogical, irrational and contradictory to Monotheism. Christians seem to have a built in preconception that they're instantly right because they're repeating what are, ironically, Vatican doctrines.
In your view.
Does not stop it being a fact that Christianity has an object, an image, an idea, an item that is an intermediary between themselves and God which they had to build the Trinity doctrine around to defend the fact of such idolatry.
Which is a big problem. Sure you can have your trinitarian theology but it remains a problem to the validity of your religion if you believe in such an intercessor as being (through believing an image as God) the only way to heaven. As this thread points out.
As a historical phenomena, during Christianity's formative years there was a lot of heavy controversy about this actually. Marcion of Sinope, alongside many of the Christian proto-gnostics tended to see "the god of the old testament" as a false-god for a large number of reasons.
The New Testament wasn't written in Hebrew though, so we don't see YHWH (יהוה) anywhere. If you don't automatically accept the Vatican-birthed (later turned Protestant) Christian narrative to be the correct one, you quickly notice how troublesome Christian doctrine and it's origins truly is.
Aside from this the other part of your comment here states "only way", which is largely a type of phrase interpreted radically different between not only different religions (who have parallel statements) but between Christian denominations.
Ah yes, but you know for a fact that Isaiah is speaking of YHWH ("The God of Israel") being the only savior of Israelites. This passage represents the unbreakable bond between YHWH and the Jewish people. Have you even read Isaiah or are you just conveniently quoting passages that suit you?
Certainly, later on in Isaiah 45 (4-7) it states:
For the sake of Jacob my servant,
of Israel my chosen,
I summon you by name
and bestow on you a title of honor,
though you do not acknowledge me.
I am YHWH, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no deity.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,
so that from the rising of the sun
to the place of its setting
people may know there is none besides me.
I am YHWH, and there is no other.
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, YHWH, do all these things.
Who knows, perhaps the New Testament authors needed a defense mechanism to justify their heresy against:
Be careful to observe only that which I enjoin upon you: neither add to it nor take away from it.
If there appears among you a prophet or a dream-diviner and he gives you a sign or a portent,
saying, “Let us follow and worship another deity”—whom you have not experienced—even if the sign or portent that he named to you comes true,
do not heed the words of that prophet or that dream-diviner. For YHWH your deity is testing you to see whether you really love YHWH your deity with all your heart and soul.
Follow none but YHWH your deity, and revere none but Him; observe His commandments alone, and heed only His orders; worship none but Him, and hold fast to Him.
As for that prophet or dream-diviner, he shall be put to death; for he urged disloyalty to YHWH your deity—who freed you from the land of Egypt and who redeemed you from the house of bondage—to make you stray from the path that YHWH your deity commanded you to follow. Thus you will sweep out evil from your midst.
(Deuteronomy 13:5-6)
If I was a Jew, I'd definitely see Jesus as a false prophet because literally none of the imminent prophecies have come true, nor did he make any effort to establish Israel among many other things. Alongside this, I'd also see him as a false prophet for (in your interpretation) claiming himself to be God, which is clearly in major dissonance with the entire Old Testament.
If I was a non-Abrahamic, from a read of the Bible I'd certainly get the impression that New Testament writers were charlatans trying to justify a heresy, heck the whole hell doctrine is often traced back to the Hellenists who took it from Greece (obviously).
Fortunately I am an Abrahamic but that doesn't cut the mustard when the subject is salvation. The exclusivity of Jesus-only (not even just God) to the issue of Idolatry is massively problematic, it's shocking how little thought Christians have to it (probably because it makes many of you very uncomfortable to challenge).
So far the defense this thread has attempted to make has been shameful. Circular reasoning does not help to validate a polemical argument (salvation through Jesus only as a superiority signal of Christianity's mainstream Vatican-inspired doctrine).
In truth, this whole idea itself spawned from the imminent apocalyptic concerns of the early pre-Christians (often Hellenistic Jewish messianics) and what became early-Christianity afterwards. The concept of a messiah in the Christian semantic (not Jewish, which is radically different) is one of significant intensity, Jesus' return delayed year after year, so the necessity for such a doctrine was important for Christianity to sustain itself. Later on we then have the break with Christianity moving past it's apocalyptic ambitions and retaining itself to day-to-day life. However evidently it's reactionary exclusivity, the polemical raison d'être of mainstream Christian doctrine because it does not understand it's own reasoning, it just believes it. Smudging over the details, as it goes. Ignoring the fine print.
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