The Bible versus other religious texts

[Infinityloop]

Repent of your sins, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour and all the Christians here will rejoice.

This is the difference between me and you. I want a rational discussion about real things (if Jesus is really 'lord and savior' then this would apply in that context) whereas you just want to convert me and demean my own religion while you're at it.
This is a massive difference between both our personalities and where our hearts are.

 

[JoChris]

This is the difference between me and you. I want a rational discussion about real things (if Jesus is really 'lord and savior' then this would apply in that context) whereas you just want to convert me and demean my own religion while you're at it.
This is a massive difference between both our personalities and where our hearts are.

This is not an intellectual battle or a battle of personalities or even between doctrines in this thread.

The bible is a living book. The bible is able to transform hearts to want to do God's will. The bible promises salvation and grace to ALL who believe in Jesus Christ.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Therefore JESUS = WORD = GOD.

You will see the Truth i.e. be converted only if God opens your eyes and you get born again.

Christians want that to happen for everyone on this forum. A person can't possibly become born again unless a person rejects their old religion/ belief system first.

e.g. A Muslim cannot believe in Jesus unless they first reject Muhammad and his false religion. Muhammad is being attacked out of love for Muslim people on this forum.

We want you to "unbelieve" in a man whose laws cannot save you, believe in Jesus Christ and be spiritually free indeed.

 

[Infinityloop]

This is not an intellectual battle or a battle of personalities or even between doctrines in this thread.

The bible is a living book. The bible is able to transform hearts to want to do God's will. The bible promises salvation and grace to ALL who believe in Jesus Christ.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Therefore JESUS = WORD = GOD.

You will see the Truth i.e. be converted only if God opens your eyes and you get born again.

Christians want that to happen for everyone on this forum. A person can't possibly become born again unless a person rejects their old religion/ belief system first.

e.g. A Muslim cannot believe in Jesus unless they first reject Muhammad and his false religion. Muhammad is being attacked out of love for Muslim people on this forum.

We want you to "unbelieve" in a man whose laws cannot save you, believe in Jesus Christ and be spiritually free indeed.

Again, you're proselytizing (and antagonizing from religious differences, plus judging my own religion in a way incomparable to anything I am asking of you here), trying to convert me rather than discussing the validity of your religion in comparison to others. Again, you're missing the point and I did outline clearly to bring specific clarity of what I was asking in this post:
https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-bible-versus-other-religious-texts.6290/post-233653

Do you understand what I am asking you?

Also, why do you go and do for the tenth time the very thing I mentioned in that above quote - within your reply to it? it is clearly not what I am asking in this thread.

 

[Haich]

Tbh I dont think preaching is going to answer the OP. It's a pretty straightforward question and I don't see why the Christians can't answer.

Someone said the bible was a spiritual and moral guide, how is that the case? What does it teach you morally and spiritually?

It just seems that you're required to believe and if one questions things, they're dismissed or told just believe....

If I were to pick up the bible, how would it change me for the better? What does it have that The Quran can't give me?

 

[Infinityloop]

Say we were in a bookstore, in the religious section and you were asked to advice somebody what book to get and you wanted them to buy a copy of the Bible, what you say to them to convince them of how great the Bible is?

Remember, you have to sell it on it's validity over these other religious texts. You are also factoring in their potential salvation which you are very serious about. Go!

Does bring to mind the related question:

What does the Bible (New Testament specifically, not the Old Testament which Jews have radically different views compared to Christians on, given that they are two different religions, one which has merely appropriated a portion of the same texts within an unrelated context) really have to offer to a non-Christian?

Obviously to a Christian it offers certainty of belief and the hype of a certain form of self-referential religious rhetoric, but what on a spiritual, intellectual and wider religious level does the New Testament actually have to offer the world?

Placing it up against other religious scriptures it doesn't particularly stand out (this is even taking into consideration particularly Christian doctrines that are commonly mentioned) in my own experience (and that of others). It'd be interesting to see if a Christian here might be able to outline what is particular special or important about what the New Testament has to say.

 

[Glad 2 know]

I would say I recommend the Bible over anything else because it has practical advice for our day. Even though it was written so long ago, its words apply to what we have going on today. It has uplifting words for us living in this hopeless and dark word and wisdom that you will find extremely useful. I would point to a scripture or two. I would also mention the examples of God's faithful servants that endured because they trusted in God and how they poured out their feelings, feelings just like ours in these ugly days. I would finalize by saying the Bible is a light in this dark world and it will help you navigate and make you feel happier after you read it.

 

[elsbet]

This is the difference between me and you. I want a rational discussion about real things...

I don't believe that. You showed your hand when you opened that rhetorical thread, admitting you wouldn't believe any response.

/shrug

 

[Infinityloop]

I don't believe that. You showed your hand when you opened that rhetorical thread, admitting you wouldn't believe any response.

/shrug

You want me to be a Christian, that's the beginning of your problems. As quoted above, you even hint there "you wouldn't believe". That says everything there is to say there, rational discussion is thrown out of the window in place of emotional assertions of beliefs you already hold. Exactly as evident by the post from JoChris that you liked above, all missionaries out to convert who you deem to be wild savages. Save it, there are Christians out there that know that acting like this is not a positive thing and that it undermines the validity of your religion entirely.

 

[Toulouse]

Hello, I just joined VC yesterday and have “met” some interesting folks. Here is my two-cents on “Infinityloop’s” question:

Say we were in a bookstore, in the religious section and you were asked to advice somebody what book to get and you wanted them to buy a copy of the Bible, what you say to them to convince them of how great the Bible is?

Remember, you have to sell it on it's validity over these other religious texts. You are also factoring in their potential salvation which you are very serious about. Go!

It seems that you are using a straw man argument, or if you are British, an “Aunt Sally.” It doesn’t necessarily follow that the Bible is the best book to use to introduce someone to Christianity. The way the question is presented, it makes the assumption beforehand that the Bible IS the best book. To prove the validity of the Bible and its salvific nature in one conversation is difficult for anyone. To have the breadth and scope of all other religious texts is quite daunting, to put it mildly. I’m sure a Hindu, Moslem, Buddhist, or Sikh would have the same issue with the Vedas, the Qur’an, etc.

I have not read the entire thread, so forgive me if I am repeating what someone else may have written, but the best way to convince someone how great the Bible is is by showing them how great Jesus is. However, a good start for a person making the argument for the Bible could be to say that of all of the religious founders, Jesus is the only one who claimed to be God, was called “God” by one of his followers – who he (Jesus) did not correct, he was the only one who said of himself “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life,” and he is the only religious figure who died for his followers to save them from their sins...all of which are stated in the Bible. The Buddha, Lao Tsu, Mohammed, never made such claims.

As an adjunct professor of world religion, and having many friends/acquaintances from various religions, I have enough exposure to be able to make this claim.

As a Christian, I would not suggest to someone in the religious section of a book store to read the Bible. I would, however, suggest the following: The Life of Christ, by Archbishop Fulton Sheen, The Seven Storey Mountain, by Thomas Merton, Confessions, by St. Augustine, Butler’s Lives of the Saints, or one of C.S. Lewis’ books.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You want me to be a Christian, that's the beginning of your problems.

Imagine the strange conversation between someone at the top a burning building and a fireman on a ladder. The person may not believe there is a fire raging in the lower floors but that doesn’t change things. “You want me to come with you, don’t you?!”, challenges the unconvinced resident. Objectively, if he only knew, he shouldn’t blame the guy on the ladder for wanting to help.

You talk as though you have all the time in the world.

You genuinely might not.

 

[Infinityloop]

Imagine the strange conversation between someone at the top a burning building and a fireman on a ladder. The person may not believe there is a fire raging in the lower floors but that doesn’t change things. “You want me to come with you, don’t you?!”, challenges the unconvinced resident. Objectively, if he only knew, he shouldn’t blame the guy on the ladder for wanting to help.

You talk as though you have all the time in the world.

You genuinely might not.

Surely something you consider that dire wouldn't be so hard for you to back up with rational discussion?

This is the same roundabout of truthclaims being followed up by "It's satanic to discuss and question the merits of Christian truthclaims".

Concealed in your post is the direct ideological view of complete certainty without any validation for such certainty, it's dangerous (very indiscernible from Fascism, really).


BACK ON TOPIC:

Say we were in a bookstore, in the religious section and you were asked to advice somebody what book to get and you wanted them to buy a copy of the Bible, what you say to them to convince them of how great the Bible is?

Remember, you have to sell it on it's validity over these other religious texts. You are also factoring in their potential salvation which you are very serious about. Go!

And:

Does bring to mind the related question:

What does the Bible (New Testament specifically, not the Old Testament which Jews have radically different views compared to Christians on, given that they are two different religions, one which has merely appropriated a portion of the same texts within an unrelated context) really have to offer to a non-Christian?

Obviously to a Christian it offers certainty of belief and the hype of a certain form of self-referential religious rhetoric, but what on a spiritual, intellectual and wider religious level does the New Testament actually have to offer the world?

 

[Infinityloop]

Please chime in @elsbet if you have any valuable insights into the topic of the thread.

 

[wanderingthinker]

Pick up a Bible and discover the truth. Do yourself a favor and stop asking humans. Stop being so bitter and fiesty. You can easily discover the truth by removing ignorance and close mindedness. I pray you may discover the truth before its too late. God can change your entire life and mind for the better. You have to fully trust his Word, discover it so you will be added to the book of
Life when the time of judgment comes God can grant you eternal life and real freedom !!! What better can that get? Anyone who dismisses Christian faith is just harming himself or herself in the long run. Narrow is the way and not many people can find it......

 

[Infinityloop]

Pick up a Bible and discover the truth. Do yourself a favor and stop asking humans.

This is not a "I don't have a Bible, can someone please give me one" thread. This is a thread about the merits of the Bible from the mouths of Christians themselves, if they have valuable insights, then they will be appreciated. If they have mere evangelizing and proselytizing (like you simply resorted to like JoChris did earlier above on this very page, making the perfect example of what NOT to do as a civilized human being), they will be treated as such. If you are truly serious about the Bible, then you will have things to share that might impress me, who knows? it's the Christians here who are holding off even attempting to explain the value of the Bible.

If you have any good insights into why the Bible is so important and above all other scriptures, then please chime in.
Thanks

 

[wanderingthinker]

I can state whatever I like who are u to say this isnt that type of thread? I am giving u advice that will cost your life so you decide. I dont live to impress you. God is our savior who will come very soon and abolish sin forever. He is very very just divine creator who loves us beyond belief that he sent his son (whose actually him) (i know it seems confusing but trust me it is real) to save us from Satan and act as a model for love unity peace virtue restoration life. There is a reason Jesus was crucified he took on all the violence hate evil that was done to him. They nailed him but he DID NOT CARE he wants to save us human species because we were created in HIS IMAGE for a purpose to live out his deeds and commandments to act right live fairly love everyone treat people with respect help the poor fight off evil. God is three divine beings BUT UNITARY. He sent his son literally to slay away sin. God knows the consequences of HELL and SINNING. He truly does not want us to suffer eternity in hell by DOING WRONG. He does not want to fail us. It takes alot to be a Christian these days let alone a devout real Christian. We must try our best and proceed. He simply wants the best for us and to save our souls from Satan. HELL is a very very long time to be wrong. All it takes is to believe have faith in the UNSEEN be able to read the pure word of God in the Bible and to abide by his commandments to live righteously and just amongst one another. He loves us insanely beyond belief. I know for you you have your own beliefs I hope one day you will be invited out of curiosity to just explore and give it a whirl. Peace brother or sister unto you! Ultimately we must fight off satan whatever faith you walk by

 

[Infinityloop]

I am giving u advice that will cost your life so you decide. I dont live to impress you.

Look, the opening of your post here gave us a lot to think about.

So the contradiction is perfectly as follows:

#1. "I am giving u advice that will cost your life" - clearly very very strong emotions are held towards these beliefs, very strong emotions. There is also a real sense of urgency held towards them too. So much so that I am in need to converting to your (and your colleagues) beliefs in your mentality.

Yet somehow:

#2. "I don't live to impress you" - yet there is complete apprehension and a willful desist towards the attempt of conveying how #1 makes sense.

We are speaking of real spiritual realities here. Whether you hold correct beliefs as a Christian or not, everything we live is constituent of the true spiritual realities (whatever they be perceived as, depending on the religious views).
Now a view such as the Evangelical and Baptist type of religiousity (I wouldn't call it spiritual or sacred whatsoever), being so vehemently against everything, should naturally have something that it's truth claims are built off - given that you are slaying people in the process of establishing your views to the world. (notice how JoChris could only attack Islam but offer no contributions to this thread?)

This mentality of "I have the only way, everyone else is completely deceived and Godless, jump onto our boat before the whole world is engulfed by lava" must have some kind of reasoning behind it. Whatever the reasoning is, you Protestants refuse to divulge it. I still have no idea why (though I have many hints).

If there is no reasoning behind such a strongly antagonistic worldview, then why would you hold it?


See the kind of crap I have to go through to get any answer at all? The OP was about the validity and superiority of the Bible, no Christian answered that, this isn't the first thread.



The rest of your post is just you repeating your beliefs (which I would already be able to accurately guess if you identified yourself as: 1. A Christian, 2. A Protestant). I do not need repeated to me for the billionth time what mainstream Christian doctrines are, I do retain what I practice, hear, read and study. Christian doctrine is not some obscure thing I've never heard about before. Please remember that.

God is our savior who will come very soon and abolish sin forever. He is very very just divine creator who loves us beyond belief that he sent his son (whose actually him) (i know it seems confusing but trust me it is real) to save us from Satan and act as a model for love unity peace virtue restoration life. There is a reason Jesus was crucified he took on all the violence hate evil that was done to him. They nailed him but he DID NOT CARE he wants to save us human species because we were created in HIS IMAGE for a purpose to live out his deeds and commandments to act right live fairly love everyone treat people with respect help the poor fight off evil. God is three divine beings BUT UNITARY. He sent his son literally to slay away sin. God knows the consequences of HELL and SINNING. He truly does not want us to suffer eternity in hell by DOING WRONG. He does not want to fail us. It takes alot to be a Christian these days let alone a devout real Christian. We must try our best and proceed. He simply wants the best for us and to save our souls from Satan. HELL is a very very long time to be wrong. All it takes is to believe have faith in the UNSEEN be able to read the pure word of God in the Bible and to abide by his commandments to live righteously and just amongst one another. He loves us insanely beyond belief. I know for you you have your own beliefs I hope one day you will be invited out of curiosity to just explore and give it a whirl. Peace brother or sister unto you! Ultimately we must fight off satan whatever faith you walk by

But if you were to back up your beliefs with your beliefs like above, then it would be good for you to explain why believing such things are good or beneficial for you.
For instance: "I believe that Satan is deceiving everyone. I believe that this is a good belief because it makes me more certain about myself in a world that is very apathetic towards my existence and it makes me feel more better about the injustices that makes the world less chaotic and more ordered towards a divine plan outlayed by God."
et cetera.

 

[wanderingthinker]

You’re attempting to interpret my words to fit your reality of what You perceive Haha smart but not really. Who told u I was protestant? Im not. Or you’re just assuming? The reasoning behind it sir is there if you read the Bible. The Bible is strict and direct and all the information im spewing comes from there. The truth does not care about your feelings. Theres no nice way to put it and no way to sugar coat Gods words. You will assume you are not getting an answer SIMPLY because you have not been exposed to a true answer by the one and only God our Lord King of Kings. This mentality we have comes from
Somewhere not from thin air. We dont live to
Impress people that is our FATHERS teachings. We are instructed to help reach out but we cannot think for others if they choose to reject God. Hope this may help u!

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

2 Corinthians 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

 

[wanderingthinker]

These beliefs are BENEFICIAL to me because they will save me from eternal damnation. Simple as that and its literal too, im not a person of nonsense I get to the point. God warns us about eternal damnation tooooo many times to not take it serious

 

[wanderingthinker]

On a serious note have u ever been curious enough to read a page or two from the Bible? Ive looked into other faiths books and I just did not feel as secure and loved like I was when i read the bible not trying to discriminate. The Bible gave me hope and reassurance. It helps act as a huge guide towards todays world which we are in the last days of. Look into the book of Revelation or skim through it just to get an idea because the correlation is literally insane everything predicted event by event

 

[Infinityloop]

You’re attempting to interpret my words to fit your reality of what You perceive Haha smart but not really. Who told u I was protestant? Im not. Or you’re just assuming?

What are you then? Catholic or Orthodox? if you were either, that alone would be impressive to see on this forum (seriously, because most self-professed "Christians" here are self-righteous Catholic-bashing Protestants). If you think something like "Nah bruv I hav no denominations lol, I'm just a krishchin" then I can safely know that you are a Protestant because only Protestants believe in the idea of no-tradition, no-authority to religious beliefs.

You will assume you are not getting an answer SIMPLY because you have not been exposed to a true answer by the one and only God our Lord King of Kings.

Ok, as asked in the OP. "Expose the true answer" to me, piece by piece. What is it? how is it?

Thank you. Again, it's not that much of a question to ask when I am being antagonized for questioning the Christianity that I am seen as an antagonist from ("You're satan and deceived for not accepting Jesus Christ as lord and savior" blah blah blah)

These beliefs are BENEFICIAL to me because they will save me from eternal damnation.

How do you know if they will?

On a serious note have u ever been curious enough to read a page or two from the Bible?

Yes, I've read it cover to cover numerous times (and seemingly citing it to various people on this forum and other places on a nearly daily basis at the moment) and have myself practiced the religion. I am more than familiar with Christianity.


From you, I am getting the same thing as from the rest of this Protestant gang here.
To demonstrate exactly what is happening:

Infinityloop: "Hi"
VCchristians: "You are evil, you're damned and going to hell, you follow a false religion!!! Repent repent!!"
Infinityloop: "That was a little rude, I do not appreciate such language. Do you have any nicer way to speak about your convictions?"
VCchristians: "NO, we don't want you to go to hell. You're misguided and don't have the holy spirit. Be Born Again and you'll be saved"
Infinityloop: "Why do you believe this? Is there any reason that you believe this?"
VCchristians: "It's written in the Bible"
Infinityloop: "Is there any reason that you believe in the Bible?"
VCchristians: "No, don't ask"
Infinityloop: "Why would you want me to believe your beliefs then if you don't even know why you believe them?"
VCchristians: "You would never believe if we told you"
Infinityloop: "Then why antagonize me at the start?"
VCchristians: "Because you need Jesus. What would you do if you were stick in a fire and your friend had a water hose?"
Infinityloop: "Look, can you just answer the question?"
VCchristians: "Here are thirty random Bible verses"
Infinityloop: "See these previous posts above which you've dodged"
VCchristians: [ignore post]
Infinityloop: "Are you going to have any dignity here? hello?"
VCchristians: "You are evil, you're damned and going to hell, you follow a false religion!!! Repent repent!!"