What Are American Soldiers Actually Dying For?

Lisa

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I wonder, if the Islamists are solely responsible for Syria’s destruction,
I didn’t say they were solely responsible, just that its possible they have a hand in Syria’s destruction since they are trying to bring about their prophecies. The Bible doesn’t say how it happens, but that it does happen.
 

Serveto

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..one must ask though..if the US wasn’t a staunch supporter of Israel, would anyone really even care that we have a military? I think maybe that’s the question to be asked, honestly.
I cannot resist: I want another gum-ball (and may it be red instead of white). Listen, for once, to an American paleoconservative instead of a neo-conservative, Patrick Buchanan, writing some years ago ...

"Since the time of Ben Gurion, the behavior of the Israeli regime has been Jekyll and Hyde. In the 1950s, its intelligence service, the Mossad, had agents in Egypt blow up U.S. installations to make it appear the work of Cairo, to destroy U.S. relations with the new Nasser government. During the Six Day War, Israel ordered repeated attacks on the undefended USS Liberty that killed 34 American sailors and wounded 171 and included the machine-gunning of life rafts. This massacre was neither investigated nor punished by the U.S. government in an act of national cravenness.

Though we have given Israel $20,000 for every Jewish citizen, Israel refuses to stop building the settlements that are the cause of the Palestinian intifada. Likud has dragged our good name through the mud and blood of Ramallah, ignored Bush’s requests to restrain itself, and sold U.S. weapons technology to China, including the Patriot, the Phoenix air-to-air missile, and the Lavi fighter, which is based on F-16 technology. Only direct U.S. intervention blocked Israel’s sale of our AWACS system.

Israel suborned Jonathan Pollard to loot our secrets and refuses to return the documents, which would establish whether or not they were sold to Moscow. When Clinton tried to broker an agreement at Wye Plantation between Israel and Arafat, Bibi Netanyahu attempted to extort, as his price for signing, release of Pollard, so he could take this treasonous snake back to Israel as a national hero.

Do the Brits, our closest allies, behave like this?
Patrick Buchanan, Whose War?
 
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justjess

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Thank you @shankara..that doesn’t get said enough around here :) and better yet is Lisa does have a good point, but I’ll take that nonetheless.


No one bashes the other countries near as much though, I don’t care what they say their budgets are.

Like other countries are innocent..one must ask though..if the US wasn’t a staunch supporter of Israel, would anyone really even care that we have a military? I think maybe that’s the question to be asked, honestly.
So now you doubt their stated military expenditures are accurate? Based on what?
My guess is based on nothing more then if the expenditures are accurate it would be damaging to your argument..

People wouldn’t care America had a military or the size of that military or the cost of that military if:

1) the American military operated strictly on a defensive basis to protect its own shores/lands (which conveniently enough enjoy a massive natural geographic defensive advantage)

2) the military budget wasn’t negatively impacting and/or entirely preventing the country from being able to attend to the needs of its non military citizens

Until those conditions are met people are going to “care” a whole hell of a lot. Whether you like it or not.
 
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Lisa

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I cannot resist: I want another gum-ball (and may it be red instead of white). Listen, for once, to an American paleoconservative instead of a neo-conservative, Patrick Buchanan, writing some years ago ...

"Since the time of Ben Gurion, the behavior of the Israeli regime has been Jekyll and Hyde. In the 1950s, its intelligence service, the Mossad, had agents in Egypt blow up U.S. installations to make it appear the work of Cairo, to destroy U.S. relations with the new Nasser government. During the Six Day War, Israel ordered repeated attacks on the undefended USS Liberty that killed 34 American sailors and wounded 171 and included the machine-gunning of life rafts. This massacre was neither investigated nor punished by the U.S. government in an act of national cravenness.

Though we have given Israel $20,000 for every Jewish citizen, Israel refuses to stop building the settlements that are the cause of the Palestinian intifada. Likud has dragged our good name through the mud and blood of Ramallah, ignored Bush’s requests to restrain itself, and sold U.S. weapons technology to China, including the Patriot, the Phoenix air-to-air missile, and the Lavi fighter, which is based on F-16 technology. Only direct U.S. intervention blocked Israel’s sale of our AWACS system.


Israel suborned Jonathan Pollard to loot our secrets and refuses to return the documents, which would establish whether or not they were sold to Moscow. When Clinton tried to broker an agreement at Wye Plantation between Israel and Arafat, Bibi Netanyahu attempted to extort, as his price for signing, release of Pollard, so he could take this treasonous snake back to Israel as a national hero.


Do the Brits, our closest allies, behave like this?


Haha, the American government is ruthless until it comes to Israel and then we are stupid?
Hope you enjoyed the gum ball :)
 

Lisa

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So now you doubt there stated military expenditures are accurate? Based on what? My guess is based on nothing more then if the expenditures are accurate it would be damaging to your argument..

People wouldn’t care America had a military or the size of that military or the cost of that military if:
1) the American military operated strictly on a defensive basis to protect its own shores/lands (which conveniently enough enjoy a massive natural geographic defensive advantage)
2) the military budget wasn’t negatively impacting and/or entirely preventing the country from being able to attend to the needs of its non military citizens

Until those conditions are met people are going to “care” a whole hell of a lot. Whether you like it or not.
Based on who really tells the truth...lol! I don’t see how it damages my argument that we don’t have the only crooked and secretive government in the world.

People wouldn’t care America had a military or the size of that military or the cost of that military if:
Just like you don’t care about China's military, you wouldn’t care about the US military except we support Israel. If China supported Israel you’d care about their military.
 

justjess

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Based on who really tells the truth...lol! I don’t see how it damages my argument that we don’t have the only crooked and secretive government in the world.


Just like you don’t care about China's military, you wouldn’t care about the US military except we support Israel. If China supported Israel you’d care about their military.
sorry lisa israel factors into my daily opinions and life about as much as... absolutely nothing. it doesnt factor at all.

the american military matters to me primarily due to the financial implications. a distant second is due to ethical and moral concerns that encompass our relations with israel as one of only many factors.

this has been stated numerous times in numerous ways.. you refuse to acknowledge. but you can let your employers know youve done a fantastic job derailing an important thread yet again.
 

Serveto

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Haha, the American government is ruthless until it comes to Israel and then we are stupid?
Hope you enjoyed the gum ball :)
The gum-ball was white. It sucked. I'm still waiting for a delicious, red, imitation excito-toxin strawberry chew of gum. Are you, by any chance, and I'm not meaning here to threaten your anonymity, Jonathan Pollard's wife or treasurer of his fan club :)?
 

Lisa

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The gum-ball was white. It sucked. I'm still waiting for a delicious, red, imitation exito-toxin strawberry chew of gum. Are you, by any chance, and I'm not meaning here to threaten your anonymity, Jonathan Pollard's wife or treasurer of his fan club :)?
I have no idea who that guy is, sorry, another white gumball for you!
 

Lisa

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Such a surprise! Have you been watching and reading what that other trouble-maker, the late Gore Vidal, this time on the political left, referred to as the "[Soviet-era] Pravda-like, [Rupert] Murdochian Media?" If so, they will certainly keep you uninformed.
Sometimes I wish you could just come right out with what you’re saying instead of the roundabout guess work but it is interesting, like having to do a jigsaw puzzle.
 
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No one bashes the other countries near as much though, I don’t care what they say their budgets are.
People who are politically aware of their country's foreign policy don't bash, but do question the motives of what their country's military is doing on foreign soil. At least some people that I know, do. Hmph, you don't care about about budgets? Yeah, don't let anything like facts get in the way of ignorant opinions, that would against the norm for you on here. :rolleyes:
Like other countries are innocent..one must ask though..if the US wasn’t a staunch supporter of Israel, would anyone really even care that we have a military? I think maybe that’s the question to be asked, honestly.
No one is saying other countries are innocent, Lisa. Karly is asking what AMERICAN soldiers are dying for and that's the name of the thread. Why must you constantly derails threads and make them be about you, your bible and your unquestioning love for Israel? Get out of that Hoover you live in and stick to the topic.
 
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Lisa

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People who are politically aware of their country's foreign policy don't bash, but do question the motives of what their country's military is doing on foreign soil. At least some people that I know, do. Hmph, you don't care about about budgets? Yeah, don't let anything like facts get in the way of ignorant opinions, that would against the norm for you on here. :rolleyes:

No one is saying other countries are innocent, Lisa. Karly is asking what AMERICAN soldiers are dying for and that's the name of the thread. Why must you constantly derails threads and make them be about you, your bible and your unquestioning love for Israel? Get out of that Hoover you live in and stick to the topic.
It seemed like it was gonna be a bash fest and like I said I’m tired of that so I thought I’d mention that other countries aren’t any better. Made me feel better at least. Carry on...
 

polymoog

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What principles are ya meaning? Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I think people are doing that.
originally, the united states was very strict about not interfering with other countries. "no overseas involvements" played a large part in american foreign affairs-- id say up until WW1. this was (i think) what jess was referring to when she mentioned 'original principles'.

Who says I’m unquestioning? I just know that other countries governments aren’t so pure as all that...looks like I’m the more realistic one here.
the US is a very special country, and has a reputation of being the leader of the free world. we still are holding the torch of freedom of speech, which is under threat everywhere. its also one of the most generous countries when it comes to foreign aid. for this and other reasons, the US is always under the microscope to be criticised.
on a higher level, the US (and the UK?) are the control centers of the NWO. what they do has a ripple effect across the globe.
other countries are corrupt and evil, theres no doubt about that. no one expects anything good out of, say, bolivia. but america is supposed to be the symbol of freedom and democracy and truth-- all that good stuff, so when the US military gets involved where it shouldnt, there are feelings of anger and betrayal by foreigners and shame by americans who know that we are meddling in affairs that dont pertain to us.
only a true american patriot would question the government and its actions, at home and abroad.
 

Karlysymon

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While I posed the question, I haven’t given my own answer.

What are American soldiers actually dying for? For Nothing.

On a personal/micro level, its for nothing but on a other/macro level its for corporate/religious interests. Iam choosing to see this through the eyes of the soldiers rather than through Halliburton’s eyes. There is nothing worthwhile to show for it.

What positive outcome, of these wars, does American society have to present as a result of their service? If it can be found, then that is what the soldiers are dying for, in the warzones, strange places like Mali and the suicides at home. The inventory lists an ever-yawning chasm between the few rich and the many poor, an unraveling social fabric, etc, to say nothing of the devastation spread abroad….”We can say, with confidence: We came, we saw, we atomized.”

While every soldier signs up primarily to defend their country and earn a salary in the process, presently the military brass and their handlers have other ideas, when they say things like “Boys go to Baghdad, Real men go to Tehran”. Where is “defending my country” in that? This would explain why, and though its an old article, Some US Troops Appear(ed) To Be Posting Photos In Protest Of Syrian Intervention. That they also understand that their service is being misused.
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A large scale mutiny is certainly wishful thinking on my part but the question originally posed remains an important one if the “messiah” (per Serveto’s article) expects to live long enough. This imperialism is taxing on everyone, not just the victims but the aggressor aswell.
 
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Lisa

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originally, the united states was very strict about not interfering with other countries. "no overseas involvements" played a large part in american foreign affairs-- id say up until WW1. this was (i think) what jess was referring to when she mentioned 'original principles'.



the US is a very special country, and has a reputation of being the leader of the free world. we still are holding the torch of freedom of speech, which is under threat everywhere. its also one of the most generous countries when it comes to foreign aid. for this and other reasons, the US is always under the microscope to be criticised.
on a higher level, the US (and the UK?) are the control centers of the NWO. what they do has a ripple effect across the globe.
other countries are corrupt and evil, theres no doubt about that. no one expects anything good out of, say, bolivia. but america is supposed to be the symbol of freedom and democracy and truth-- all that good stuff, so when the US military gets involved where it shouldnt, there are feelings of anger and betrayal by foreigners and shame by americans who know that we are meddling in affairs that dont pertain to us.
only a true american patriot would question the government and its actions, at home and abroad.
Good speech.

I agree we are a special country and there are people still wanting to come here to live despite our sins...wonder why that is since now we disappoint the world on a never ending basis? But keep giving out that money we like to get...they surely don’t have to kiss up to get it.

My point is that maybe we are sticking our nose into places it doesn’t belong..but other countries do that too. We are still the symbol for democracy and freedom throughout the world and people know that too and still want to come here because our country is more than just our foreign policy and our military and I think people get that.

The average American can’t stop its government any more than the average Bolivian. People get that too and that’s why they still want to come to America anyway. Better here than in their own countries any day. It’s like they get America better than Americans who think it’s patriotic to diss their country to the world and who think it’s an inherit right to live here and think the worst of the country that still gives them so much. They just sound like whiny babies who have no appreciation for what they have and luckily they can whine and not have the problems like say Tommy Robinson has when he cries out for justice from a government who really is quite corrupt. Yes thank God we aren’t there yet...
 

shankara

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no one expects anything good out of, say, bolivia.
What's wrong with Bolivia? I don't think Evo Morales is any kind of dictator.

Good speech.

I agree we are a special country and there are people still wanting to come here to live despite our sins...wonder why that is since now we disappoint the world on a never ending basis? But keep giving out that money we like to get...they surely don’t have to kiss up to get it.

My point is that maybe we are sticking our nose into places it doesn’t belong..but other countries do that too. We are still the symbol for democracy and freedom throughout the world and people know that too and still want to come here because our country is more than just our foreign policy and our military and I think people get that.

The average American can’t stop its government any more than the average Bolivian. People get that too and that’s why they still want to come to America anyway. Better here than in their own countries any day. It’s like they get America better than Americans who think it’s patriotic to diss their country to the world and who think it’s an inherit right to live here and think the worst of the country that still gives them so much. They just sound like whiny babies who have no appreciation for what they have and luckily they can whine and not have the problems like say Tommy Robinson has when he cries out for justice from a government who really is quite corrupt. Yes thank God we aren’t there yet...
Ah yes, "democracy and freedom", to be exported at the barrel of a gun... Though dictators are fine so long as they serve US economic interests, neo-liberalism. I think that I would say that's pretty much what US soldiers are actually dying for, to advance the neo-liberal agenda and help those whose interests it serves.

And Tommy Robinson!? The Islamophobic bigot who leads the gang of blatantly racist thugs? The EDL obviously think that they're defending British culture against the so-called "barbarians at the gates" but for the kind of people who are involved with that organization British culture consists of drinking a few pints at the pub and watching the football. I imagine he'd have less of a problem with Islam if it permitted beer...
 
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