What Are American Soldiers Actually Dying For?

Lisa

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I think if you think of Syria with prophecy in mind..then you understand better that there will be conflict there because something has to cause Damascus to not be a city anymore. I think it would be strange that there wouldn’t be anything going on with a prophecy like that.
 

Karlysymon

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Even if I object to America's foreign policy, most of the time, I don't blame and neither will I harshly criticize the American soldiers who are ordered into the many so called (I loathe this euphemism) "theaters of operation."
I agree. I also acknowledge that my opinion is strong sometimes so the thread isn't to criticize but to get the conversation going and for all of us to try to understand why we strongly oppose or support American hegemony and realize the price the hegemony demands. They, the soldiers, are the ones asking the question (hence I will post my promised links) and its an important one to ask if these wars are ever to cease because they affect us all in various ways as America is the empire we all live under. The documentary I watched, that featured Dr. Bacevich, one soldier struggled to come to terms with the loss of his comrade. He had to come up with a reason, convincing himself, that the loss of his friend’s life wasn’t for naught.

https://www.thenation.com/article/what-are-american-soldiers-actually-dying-for/
"If ever you have the urge to do just that, ask yourself the following question: Would I be able to confidently explain to someone’s mother what (besides his mates) her child actually died for?

What would you tell her? That he (or she) died to ensure Saudi hegemony in the Persian Gulf, or to facilitate the rise of ISIS, or an eternal Guantanamo, or the spread of terror groups, or the creation of yet more refugees for us to fear, or the further bombing of Yemen to ensure a famine of epic proportions?

Maybe you could do that, but I couldn’t and can’t. Not anymore, anyway. There have already been too many mothers, too many widows, for whom those explanations couldn’t be lamer. And so many dead—American, Afghan, Iraqi, and all the rest—that eventually I find myself sitting on a bar stool staring at the six names on those bracelets of mine, the wreckage of two wars reflecting back at me, knowing I’ll never be able to articulate a coherent explanation for their loved ones, should I ever have the courage to try."

 
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The irony with the subject of "war" is that true war hasn't really been seen in centuries.

Most modern things you could dig up (including both WW's) is just masses of people fighting for someone else. War, in prior history was always people (or empires and tribes etc) fighting for themselves by themselves.

This is setting aside the very obvious nature of geopolitics, natural resources, finances and the memes (or lies) that certain wars of recent times hinge upon (etc).
 

Lisa

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who will cause Damascus to be destroyed for the sake of israel?
No one knows what happens to Damascus that it will stop being a city. The Bible doesn’t specifically say, or who it is that does it...so you can’t blame Israel for it already.
Isaiah‬ ‭17:1‬ ‭
The oracle concerning Damascus. “Behold, Damascus is about to be removed from being a city And will become a fallen ruin.”
‭‭I think it’s interesting that the muslims also want Damascus for their end times prophecies and are now fighting over there to bring it about. Who knows who fires the last shot that brings about its ruin?
 

Serveto

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Why not? Didn’t they sign up for that? What do you think they signed up for?
To "defend" their country, no doubt, given that they are fodder, granted paid fodder, of the so called "Defense Department." Everybody knows that we Americans, filled with largesse and a desire to "liberate" the oppressed worldwide, are only ever "defending" ourselves and spreading Freedom on the wings of snow-white Raytheon war jets.
 

Lisa

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To "defend" their country, no doubt, given that they are fodder, granted paid fodder, of the so called "Defense Department." Everybody knows that we Americans, filled with largesse and a desire to "liberate" the oppressed worldwide, are only ever "defending" ourselves and spreading Freedom on the wings of snow-white Raytheon war jets.
So, then they can be blamed for what they do?
 

Lisa

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Unlike the foot soldiers, those who can be blamed are the decision makers at the executive level and policy wonks among the chattering class, such as David Brooks, as @DavidSon was perceptive enough to note, who cheer them on: the war mongers and bishops (and above), not pawns, on the chessboard.
Without the people signing up they would have no one to command, right? So, for whatever reasons people sign up, they know they will have to use force and maybe kill people. They can be blamed for signing up to do that can’t they?
 

Lisa

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Yes, I suppose so. Please re-ead my statement, the one you quoted. When I composed it, I took care to add what I think is an adequate adverb, harshly: I will not harshly criticize nor will I blame the American soldiers. Get it?

I am enjoying our discussion, but I am also busy knitting a new Shawl for Iran. The last one, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, didn't work out too well. Would you like to help me? Afterward, we could do some exciting bungee jumping :cool:.
But you will criticize their superiors harshly? Without the troops willingness to engage in battle by signing up for it, their superiors couldn’t use them...
 

Serveto

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But you will criticize their superiors harshly? Without the troops willingness to engage in battle by signing up for it, their superiors couldn’t use them...
I already told you that I think a common perception among soldiers is that they are signing up to "defend" their country. I have no issues with self-defense. It is in large part because I will not usually "turn my other cheek" that I do not presume to call myself a Christian. What is often overlooked in the "defense" equation, though the military elites and decision makers from West Point and the Pentagon know the subterfuge well, is that offense often goes trick-or-treating, that is to say masquerading, as defense.
 

Lisa

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I already told you that I think a common perception among soldiers is that they are signing up to "defend" their country. I have no issues with self-defense. It is in large part because I will not usually "turn my other cheek" that I do not presume to call myself a Christian. What is often overlooked in the "defense" equation, though the military elites and decision makers from West Point and the Pentagon know the subterfuge well, is that offense often goes trick-or-treating, that is to say masquerading, as defense.
Sure, but signing up to defend means using force, I mean they are signing up for the armed forces aren’t they? You’ve got those that re-enlist and make a career of the military, are they being duped too? I don’t think so, they’ve been in long enough to know what that means.
 

Serveto

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Sure, but signing up to defend means using force, I mean they are signing up for the armed forces aren’t they? You’ve got those that re-enlist and make a career of the military, are they being duped too? I don’t think so, they’ve been in long enough to know what that means.
America is largely on a military footing. My guess is that, before long, there will be two and only two career options in this country: manufacture meth in your basement or join the Army.
 

Lisa

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America is largely on a military footing. My guess is that, before long, there will be two and only two career options in this country: manufacture meth in your basement or join the Army.
I doubt it.
 

Serveto

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I doubt it.
You were smart to doubt because we could add a third, possibly fourth, option: become a hamburger engineer at franchise fast-food restaurants.

I once saw a witty, anti-war t-shirt. It read: "Join the Army. Travel to far-away places, meet strange, exotic people - and kill them."
 
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justjess

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My gut - albeit cynical - immediate reaction to the question:

They are dying for a secure job, living wage, guaranteed housing, college funding and healthcare. (No one should have to risk death for those things)

Of course that is on a micro level. On a macro? Corporate interests whatever those happen to be at the moment
 
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Lisa

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I once saw a witty, anti-war t-shirt. It read: "Join the Army. Travel to far-away places, meet strange, exotic people - and kill them."
Funny how we aren’t the only country in the world to do that...
 

Lisa

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No we aren’t. However we have the largest military in the world and spend more money on our military then the next ten largest militaries in the world combined.
And China doesn’t? They have a bigger army than we do, with the killing of girls babies for all those generations they have way more men for their military industrial complex then we will ever have.

So again, we aren’t the only country in the world with military might.
 

Todd

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And China doesn’t? They have a bigger army than we do, with the killing of girls babies for all those generations they have way more men for their military industrial complex then we will ever have.

So again, we aren’t the only country in the world with military might.
How many countries has China invaded or occupied in the last ten years?
 
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