No regard...for the desire of women

[Haich]

Reminds me how catholics look at Mary, but then you guys worship Mary too don’t you?

I don’t know how anyone loves people they’ve never met like they were your own parents..that’s seems a bit strange to me.

Did you meet jesus?

No. We don't worship Mary.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Sorry had to just point out, that we aren't just on 'our merry way'. We believe in the day of judgement which is where each soul shall be held accountable for the wrong they did but also be rewarded for the good they did.

It seems in christianity you're going to heaven regardless as there is no accountability factor for the damage one does whilst on earth. So maybe as a Christian who is exempt from the fire based on belief alone, it is you who is on their merry way...

For those who recognise there are biblical principles of both discipline and reward for believers (regardless of loss of salvation) this is an interesting study:-

Discipline:-

Reward:-

 

[manama]

Reminds me how catholics look at Mary, but then you guys worship Mary too don’t you?

Who said that we worship Mary?

I don’t know how anyone loves people they’ve never met like they were your own parents..that’s seems a bit strange to me.

This is why Christianity and Islam will always be miles apart. You love Jesus because he is God to you and kind and he died for your sins. We love Jesus even though he did none of that for us, we just love him for him. While Adam and Eve are a different story being our actual ancestors as well as someone who love us and prayed for us their entire lives. We want to make them proud on the day of judgement.

The concept of "beloved of the one I love" is also very frequent in Islam and i find it to be very beautiful.

 

[Robin]

No, I don’t believe that God has no use or care for women outside of childbirth..but we do our best work in our families. The early church fathers thought that too you mean?

1 Corinthians 11:5-10

5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved.
6For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.
8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man.
9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.
10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

So men are the glory of God but not women? Women are the glory of man and just made as some kind of add-on for their benefit? Doesn't sound like equal value to me.
Not to mention that God clearly biologically wired a woman to have a limited value in her fertility whereas men can pretty much have kids until they die. That pretty much set the standard for how women were treated and thought of throughout history. And yes that's what I said. You should look up some of their choice quotes, even by Martin Luther regarding women.

 

[Lisa]

Did you meet jesus?

No. We don't worship Mary.

I know Jesus personally, yes.

Do you worship Mohammad?

 

[Haich]

I know Jesus personally, yes.

Do you worship Mohammad?

Sorry, did you just say you know jesus personally? How?

No we don't.

 

[Lisa]

Who said that we worship Mary?

I was just wondering..

We love Jesus even though he did none of that for us, we just love him for him.

Why would you love someone you don’t know and did nothing for you?

While Adam and Eve are a different story being our actual ancestors as well as someone who love us and prayed for us their entire lives. We want to make them proud on the day of judgement.

How do dear people love you and pray for you? How do you make dead people proud?

"beloved of the one I love"

How can you be beloved of dead people?

 

[Haich]

So lisa only loves jesus because he allegedly died for her sins. Boy...what a selfish type of love that is.

You see we love jesus because he came to represent God and relay the message of monotheism that came before him.

 

[Haich]

@Lisa

Do you love anyone prior to Jesus? Any prophet or messenger mentioned in your books...

 

[Lisa]

1 Corinthians 11:5-10

5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved.
6For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.
8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man.
9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.
10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

So men are the glory of God but not women? Women are the glory of man and just made as some kind of add-on for their benefit? Doesn't sound like equal value to me.

Adam was made in God’s image...

Genesis‬ ‭5:1‬ ‭
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God
​

‭‭Women were created to help Adam...I also left the part in there about them being man and wife.

Genesis‬ ‭2:15, 18-25‬ ‭​

Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.

Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.” Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him. So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

And from the New Testament..

Ephesians 5:25, 28-29​

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,

So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church.
‭‭

‭‭

Not to mention that God clearly biologically wired a woman to have a limited value in her fertility whereas men can pretty much have kids until they die. That pretty much set the standard for how women were treated and thought of throughout history. And yes that's what I said. You should look up some of their choice quotes, even by Martin Luther regarding women.

I wouldn’t want to have a baby at 50 or 60, so I don’t call that wrong. Though I know women can have babies naturally at 50, my aunt is as around that age when she had her youngest son.

 

[manama]

Why would you love someone you don’t know and did nothing for you?

Because its not love if its selfish.

How do dear people love you and pray for you? How do you make dead people proud?

How can you be beloved of dead people?

Life after death is a thing you know.

 

[Lisa]

Sorry, did you just say you know jesus personally? How?

No we don't.

Yes, I know Jesus personally, He died for my sins and I accepted Him as savior. That’s pretty personal wouldn’t you say?

No we don't.

But muslims think of him as the perfect man and want to be like him...isn’t that worshiping him?

So lisa only loves jesus because he allegedly died for her sins. Boy...what a selfish type of love that is.

We love because God first loved us. We are all selfish people.

You see we love jesus because he came to represent God and relay the message of monotheism that came before him.

You only love your version of Jesus because of monotheism? And that’s better than loving someone
who saves you from a bad punishment?

Do you love anyone prior to Jesus? Any prophet or messenger mentioned in your books...

I’m not sure what you mean prior to Jesus? Do you mean like parents? Yes, I love(d) my parents however I at least knew them..I don’t know Adam and Eve enough to say I love them.

 

[Lisa]

He will show no regard....for the desire of women.

That’s an antichrist statement..those who follow that follow the antichrist.

 

[Todd]

Sorry had to just point out, that we aren't just on 'our merry way'. We believe in the day of judgement which is where each soul shall be held accountable for the wrong they did but also be rewarded for the good they did.

It seems in christianity you're going to heaven regardless as there is no accountability factor for the damage one does whilst on earth. So maybe as a Christian who is exempt from the fire based on belief alone, it is you who is on their merry way...

I'm not the typical Christian (obviously) but I think it's likely there is a middle ground that is actually the truth. Christianity, or at least the message it appears to convey, is lacking in the accountablitly for wrongs side of the equation, where Muslim's seem to be lacking in the importance in the work that Jesus did on the cross. I sympathize with Mulsim's critique of the belief that an innocent man paid the price for our sins. I actually question that belief of orthodox Christianity and believe the purpose of the death and ressurrection of Jesus was to be the prototype and display of God's power over death.

The OT says the wages of sin is death. If any of us never sinned we would not have to die. Jesus did not sin, therefore he did not need to die. Instead, he chose to die (according to God'w will and not his own) so that God's power and authority over death and God's ability and desire to raise us from the dead could be made known and displayed to all mankind. Jesus is the assurance of the hope of resurrection. Without his resurrection, we would have no hope and understand just as the OT teaches that because we have all sinned we shall die. There is no biblical proof that we are immortal. We sin, we die (cease to exist)the end. Jesus ressurection is the only proof that we have to even hope that there is even such thing as an existance after death or a ressurection for any of us.

God proved time and again the in the OT that he could forgive sin without the shedding of blood. Jesus dying on the cross wasn't about God forgiving us our sin. It was about paying the ransom for the curse of death that has been placed on all mankind. Now that the curse is broken we wil all be resurrected and stand before God for judgement. Those who followed the commands of God, including those who followed the commands as presented by Christ in his fleshly ministry, will be afforded a different grace than those who did not. The level to which we allow God to sanctify and purify us in this lifetime will correlate somehow with the amount of grace and rewards we do or do not receive in the ages to come.

I know I will be figuratively curcified by many of the Christian's here, but that is what I see and cannot deny when I study the Bible and ignore the dogma and doctrines of organized religion.

If the God of the doctrine of eternal torment is the real god and I suffer eternal torment because I stay true to my convictions that have been shaped by studying the Bible, then I beleive there is no hope at all. Because that isn't a God I want to spend eternity with anyways. If I'm wrong I hope annihalition is the truth and not eternal torment. I'd rather cease to exist than to know the Creator of universe while being purported and worshipped as good, would create human beings and cause them to suffer eternal torment with absolutely no purpose or redeeming effect.

Yes, I'm heretic and proud of it (as defined by the definitions below)

Heretic
a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.

• a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.

Heresy
belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious doctrine.

• opinion profoundly at odds with what is generally accepted.

 

[Lisa]

Because its not love if its selfish.

But can you really love someone you’ve never met? Aren’t you then giving them attributes that may or may not be theirs to love them? I still don’t understand living people you don’t know.

Life after death is a thing you know.

Actually I don’t know that. When is it a thing right when you die or later on?

 

[Lisa]

I'm not the typical Christian

You’re not a Christian at all you mean...

 

[Todd]

You’re not a Christian at all you mean...

By your definition? NO! thank God.

 

[Lisa]

By your definition? NO! thank God.

By the Bible’s, yes, you are. You even say you’re proud of being a heretic.

 

[manama]

But can you really love someone you’ve never met? Aren’t you then giving them attributes that may or may not be theirs to love them? I still don’t understand living people you don’t know.

We love God when we haven't met him.

Actually I don’t know that. When is it a thing right when you die or later on?

You can tell me when you reach there.

 

[Lisa]

We love God when we haven't met him.

I’ve met Him and know Him...

You can tell me when you reach there.

You don’t know?