No regard...for the desire of women

Lisa

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You don't need to have a family of your own to be happy in life and being married doesn't always mean you're going to be happy. Believing the otherwise is a generalization.
You’re at least happy to get married, being married does take work and maybe that’s what people don’t think about.

The world has long moved passed that ideal.
That’s too bad because it’s true.

If anything people just becoming more and more selfish and materialistic.
That’s because people don’t know about what God wants and they don’t care.

If that's a woman's only contribution to a society then it's true.
It’s a big contribution, it should be better respected.

What I meant by that is the idea that there's someone out there for everyone.
I think there is...there’s a lot of people in the world...

Many women are single mothers and not by choice.
Whose choice then?

And you're free to think that but that's just your opinion.
Sure, it’s my opinion but I also think that’s how God wanted it.
 

Lisa

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It’s YOUR truth,
God created man and then because He said its not good for man to be alone He created woman and He created women to be the man’s helper and He also made a woman able to bear children, seems to me that He wants men and women to be together and that women have kids and raise them. I don’t see how I’m wrong there.

He’s the head of the household, figuratively, which means he’s doesn’t need to be financially, which is what I was trying to explain to you.
What do you mean figuratively?

What “wants” are you talking about, Lisa? Is being a teacher and educating the next generation selfish? Is working in the field of gerontology selfish? Is being a counselor selfish? Your myopia is remarkable! We can flip the coin and concede to the fact that you have raised children and probably influenced them with some of the short-sighted views you’ve posted on here, which could very well be viewed as selfish and even detrimental.
What’s more important than raising the next generation? I think that’s takes precedence myself.

I understand you’re talking hypothetically, not to mention here are some women who have ambitions and want to make a difference in the world with their talents, knowledge and skills. I could never see myself sitting at home while my partner is the sole breadwinner, I’d get too antsy, and I know from my own experience and my own personal network, I'm not alone in this thinking.
They could make a difference by raising their kids themselves.
It is a different time with people tending to be more selfish.
 

Lisa

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If I don't reply again, don't take offense. You and I don't see eye to eye and probably never will.
Ok

So your saying "Just try harder. Pray to God to make it work" doesn't apply here.
Better than just giving up. And is God not big enough to make a marriage work if asked?

Only God can fill those voids.
The why would He say it’s not good for man to be alone and make woman if He can only fill voids? I think that God made men and woman for each other but with Him as that 3rd strand..that’s how it works.
Ecclesiastes‬ ‭4:11-12
Furthermore, if two lie down together they keep warm, but how can one be warm alone?
And if one can overpower him who is alone, two can resist him. A cord of three strands is not quickly torn apart.​
‭‭
I've seen this a lot in young Christian women and in myself, too. Thinking that the goal is to attract a good Christian man, marry, have babies, white picket fence, nice house, etc. It's like the elusive American dream which doesn't exist anymore. It's not practical nor healthy to live in a fantasy world.
It might take work and prayer but God wants people to do well. You can’t do it without His help that’s for sure. He can repair any bad marriage...I know, he’s repaired mine.
 

elsbet

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When first joining VC I was a little shocked at comments like this but now it gives me a good laugh. The arrogance of anyone who thinks they can define the faith of 2 billion believers is comical.

49 Now John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us."
50 But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."- LUKE
No offense but that doesn't apply here-- he is not for us-- not from a biblical standpoint. Man is powerless, and that is what he believes Jesus is-- a man, and nothing more. Man cannot live without sinning, nor can a man save the life of another.
Truly no man can ransom another, or give to God the price of his life...​
for the ransom of their life is costly​
and can never suffice, that he should live on forever and never see the pit. PSALM 49

There are plenty of aspects on which people can disagree, but this one is fundamental-- it is the defining aspect of Christianity that sets it apart from all other religions.
 

Robin

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You’re at least happy to get married, being married does take work and maybe that’s what people don’t think about.
So getting married is the important part? No not everyone is happy getting married. A lot of times it's the realisation that marriage can be stressful and difficult and potentially end in a lot of heartbreak that makes people not want to do it in the first place

That’s too bad because it’s true.
Not anymore. Women can be financially independent. People can adopt kids if they really want them or even have an artificial insemination.


That’s because people don’t know about what God wants and they don’t care.
As someone who used to be of The "Christian community" I can honestly tell you that knowing what God wants doesn't always make a difference.

It’s a big contribution, it should be better respected.
You didn't hear? People are working artificial wombs and stuff like that to completely discard natural conception and pregnancy. No one thinks of it the same way anymore. A woman has to be worth more than that.

I think there is...there’s a lot of people in the world...
It really isn't like like that.

Whose choice then?
The men who leave them.

]
Sure, it’s my opinion but I also think that’s how God wanted it.
Fine, but I don't see how you can still believe people should carry on in the way "God wants" when the whole world is very clearly passed that. I feel bad for Christians, I can only imagine how much more shallow their dating pool must be.
 

JoChris

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God created man and then because He said its not good for man to be alone He created woman and He created women to be the man’s helper and He also made a woman able to bear children, seems to me that He wants men and women to be together and that women have kids and raise them. I don’t see how I’m wrong there.


What do you mean figuratively?


What’s more important than raising the next generation? I think that’s takes precedence myself.


They could make a difference by raising their kids themselves.
It is a different time with people tending to be more selfish.
This would be a great topic in another thread, so I will start it now. :)
 

DavidSon

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Honesty is an unusual thing to receive these days, even online (thanks to social justice warriors).


You just provided a example of a person quoting a verse who does not believe the bible. Comprehension of what is being taught is lacking.

To be casting out demons AND BEING SUCCESSFUL in doing so, a person has to have genuine faith in Jesus Himself.
Here is an example of people using the name of Jesus, but failing in casting out demons because they did not believe in Jesus.

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.


The demons knew the Jews didn't really believe in Jesus.
Readers know that about you as well. Please stop quoting bible verses cult-style.
That's the thing, you're the one who's not really a follower of Christ. In 8 months I don't think I've heard you speak on the teachings of Him. Yeah you talk a lot about the childish philosophy of David Wolf and homosexuals but few words from the Nazarene. Your more a follower of "St". Paul, along with a fraternity of 2nd/3rd century philosophers. A little strange you wouldn't be quoting more from who you believe is God.

I've already read that weak reasoning about Luke 9:50. It's proof how men adulterate the teachings of God. In no place does it say the outsider wasn't successful; in fact the opposite was inferred. It's horrible that the indoctrination of religion has made it so people can't even read His words with a clear mind. To not understand the significance of the phrase, "if you're not against me you're with me" is plain sad.

Trying to demean @Todd wasn't necessary. All it's done is take this topic off course (whatever that was lol) into a space of ill feelings and adds to the misery of this world. If you claim to be a Christian then follow His example and words: Honor the Father, cultivate love, eschew possessions, heal the sick, turn from sin, give your life for others.

I hope you can realize that LOVE is the principal foundation of the Gospel: WHOEVER DOES NOT KNOW LOVE DOES NOT KNOW GOD. GOD IS LOVE!
 

JoChris

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That's the thing, you're the one who's not really a follower of Christ. In 8 months I don't think I've heard you speak on the teachings of Him. Yeah you talk a lot about the childish philosophy of David Wolf and homosexuals but few words from the Nazarene. Your more a follower of "St". Paul, along with a fraternity of 2nd/3rd century philosophers. A little strange you wouldn't be quoting more from who you believe is God.
1. This is not a specifically a theology forum between Christians.
2. I thought I did quote from Jesus when possible/ relevant.
However I will take your comment as constructive criticism and quote Jesus more now. :)

3. David Wood actually is Dr. David Wood.
To achieve an philosophy doctorate a person requires incredibly advanced adult reasoning skills. What you really object to is his METHOD of answering an opposing view to Christianity via ridicule of stupid arguments. (Childish style in your opinion, yes.)

I've already read that weak reasoning about Luke 9:50. It's proof how men adulterate the teachings of God. In no place does it say the outsider wasn't successful; in fact the opposite was inferred. It's horrible that the indoctrination of religion has made it so people can't even read His words with a clear mind. To not understand the significance of the phrase, "if you're not against me you're with me" is plain sad.

Trying to demean @Todd wasn't necessary. All it's done is take this topic off course (whatever that was lol) into a space of ill feelings and adds to the misery of this world. If you claim to be a Christian then follow His example and words: Honor the Father, cultivate love, eschew possessions, heal the sick, turn from sin, give your life for others.
You ignored the verse immediately before 9:50.

Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.


Was the man successful in doing so - YES or NO?
Hint: does it say "trying to cast [therefore failing]", "casting out devils in [another name's] name"?

You are defending Todd, a man who has rejected the New Testament as it is written, and who now follows a self-made religion.
I am showing love by showing truth to people who do not realise they need it yet, and tolerating criticism in the process.
If you were a bible believing Christian you would completely understand why I take the time in doing so.

I hope you can realize that LOVE is the principal foundation of the Gospel: WHOEVER DOES NOT KNOW LOVE DOES NOT KNOW GOD. GOD IS LOVE!
Please give links or direct quote with reference to passage next time.
1 John chapter 4
The chapter is all about separating truth and error. The truth IS that God is love. Who is this God who loves us?

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.


How can a man love as a Christian if he does not first believe in the begotten Son, Jesus Christ?

P.S. From the apostle Todd dismisses:
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


Davidson please do the above verses for your own sake.
 

Lisa

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So getting married is the important part? No not everyone is happy getting married. A lot of times it's the realisation that marriage can be stressful and difficult and potentially end in a lot of heartbreak that makes people not want to do it in the first place
But there are a lot of people who still get married and most are happy to..otherwise they wouldn’t.

Not anymore. Women can be financially independent. People can adopt kids if they really want them or even have an artificial insemination.
True, but people do much better in families with a mom and a dad. That’s the way God intended it to be, not the ways in which people want to go around that ideal.

As someone who used to be of The "Christian community" I can honestly tell you that knowing what God wants doesn't always make a difference.
What happened that you think that?

You didn't hear? People are working artificial wombs and stuff like that to completely discard natural conception and pregnancy. No one thinks of it the same way anymore. A woman has to be worth more than that.
A woman is worth a lot in the raising of children, it’s too bad we have gotten to that point that women only have worth outside of the house...too bad for women, for children and for husbands, this has negatively affected everyone. But that seems to be what happens when people go against what God says is good.

The men who leave them.
I don’t believe it’s always the man’s fault.



Fine, but I don't see how you can still believe people should carry on in the way "God wants" when the whole world is very clearly passed that. I feel bad for Christians, I can only imagine how much more shallow their dating pool must be.
I think the world is passed that because people don’t believe in God anymore and don’t really care what He wants or says is good for us.

Christians shouldn’t be unequally yoked for a reason.
 

Robin

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But there are a lot of people who still get married and most are happy to..otherwise they wouldn’t.
Most are actually not happy according to stats.

True, but people do much better in families with a mom and a dad. That’s the way God intended it to be, not the ways in which people want to go around that ideal.
That may have been his intention (If he is even real) but that's not the way the world worked out. Things have changed so working with those ideals just don't stick.

What happened that you think that?
Bad experiences with so-called Christians.

A woman is worth a lot in the raising of children, it’s too bad we have gotten to that point that women only have worth outside of the house...too bad for women, for children and for husbands, this has negatively affected everyone. But that seems to be what happens when people go against what God says is good.
A woman is worth more than her ability to give birth.


I don’t believe it’s always the man’s fault.
I never said that but there are A LOT of cases of men skirting their responsibilities and wanting nothing to do with the women they knocked up or their kids. A lot of men refer to married and family life as some kind of prison sentence.

I think the world is passed that because people don’t believe in God anymore and don’t really care what He wants or says is good for us.
If God is even real.

Christians shouldn’t be unequally yoked for a reason.
I've seen "equally yoked" Christian marriages fall apart.
 

elsbet

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Fine, but I don't see how you can still believe people should carry on in the way "God wants" when the whole world is very clearly passed that. I feel bad for Christians, I can only imagine how much more shallow their dating pool must be.
Ehh... we have a lot of people telling other people What God Wants-- fortunately, God has spoken for Himself. I take what everyone else says with a grain of salt. :)
 

Todd

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You ignored the verse immediately before 9:50.

Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.


Was the man successful in doing so - YES or NO?
Hint: does it say "trying to cast [therefore failing]", "casting out devils in [another name's] name"?

You are defending Todd, a man who has rejected the New Testament as it is written
So if I were successfully casting out demons in Jesus name you would accept me as a believer?

I have not rejected the New Testament, we simply disagree on the interpretation of it. I also believe in basing doctrine on the words of Jesus over Paul. Paul is hard to understand (as Peter warns) but easier to live than Jesus words. Jesus words are much easier to understand but much more difficult to live, hence the reason significantly more sermons are preached every Sunday from Paul’s word than Jesus’. Preachers can’t wow their congregants with the great revelation they received from God when preaching Jesus’ words because they are for the most part self explanatory or even in the case of parables we are given the words explanation from Jesus himself. Paul on the other hand is difficult to understand hence the reason so many different beliefs and contradicting doctrines within the Church.

Everything I believe is based on the Bible. I have no other sources, I simply have a different emphasis of which words in the Bible I focus on. I don’t judge you or cast you aside as an unbeliever because you emphasis the words of Paul more than Jesus. I simply ask the same in return.

So just in case I distracted you from my original question, if I were successfully casting out demons in Jesus name would you reconsider your stance about me, as a fellow believer. (It doesn’t mean you have to agree with my doctrine or theology)
 

elsbet

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So if I were successfully casting out demons in Jesus name you would accept me as a believer?

I have not rejected the New Testament, we simply disagree on the interpretation of it. I also believe in basing doctrine on the words of Jesus over Paul. Paul is hard to understand (as Peter warns) but easier to live than Jesus words. Jesus words are much easier to understand but much more difficult to live, hence the reason significantly more sermons are preached every Sunday from Paul’s word than Jesus’. Preachers can’t wow their congregants with the great revelation they received from God when preaching Jesus’ words because they are for the most part self explanatory or even in the case of parables we are given the words explanation from Jesus himself. Paul on the other hand is difficult to understand hence the reason so many different beliefs and contradicting doctrines within the Church.

Everything I believe is based on the Bible. I have no other sources, I simply have a different emphasis of which words in the Bible I focus on. I don’t judge you or cast you aside as an unbeliever because you emphasis the words of Paul more than Jesus. I simply ask the same in return.

So just in case I distracted you from my original question, if I were successfully casting out demons in Jesus name would you reconsider your stance about me, as a fellow believer. (It doesn’t mean you have to agree with my doctrine or theology)
If you were successfully casting out demons in the name of someone you believe to be a mortal man? There would be much to consider... the validity of said exorcism, for one.
 

Todd

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If you were successfully casting out demons in the name of someone you believe to be a mortal man? There would be much to consider... the validity of said exorcism, for one.
Jesus is not a mortal man. He is the Messiah and the one God made both Lord and Christ. He is seated at the right of God and all authority has been given to him. Hence it is in his name that I can cast out demons as Jesus is Lord of All.
 

elsbet

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Jesus is not a mortal man. He is the Messiah and the one God made both Lord and Christ. He is seated at the right of God and all authority has been given to him. Hence it is in his name that I can cast out demons as Jesus is Lord of All.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.

The Muslims claim the same thing you do, and believe He is a mortal man. The word 'messiah' gives no indication of deity or holiness or power and authority, there.

The bible does, and it is clear--

... and the Word was God.
... and the Word became flesh.
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known. JOHN 1:18
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form. And you have been made complete in Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority...​
COLOSSIANS 2:8-10
 

Todd

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I'm not sure what you mean by that.

The Muslims claim the same thing you do, and believe He is a mortal man.
So your not sure what the Bible says then? Everything I said about Jesus is directly and explicitly said in the Bible...no interpretation needed. The same cannot be said about the Trinity doctrine.

You cherry picked a version of the Bible that interprets John 1:18 to fit your doctrine. Literal translations say “who is the only begotten son”, not “who is God himself”. No one agrees (bible scholars, Greek language experts, etc) what “only begotten Son” means so it’s a bit spurious using it to defend a doctrine.
 

Lisa

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That may have been his intention (If he is even real) but that's not the way the world worked out. Things have changed so working with those ideals just don't stick.
He is real. The thing that has changed is more people are not believing in God so they don’t see why they should have to live how He said we should.

Bad experiences with so-called Christians.
And that made you think negatively about God enough to not believe anymore? What was it that made you believe in the first place?
 

Robin

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He is real. The thing that has changed is more people are not believing in God so they don’t see why they should have to live how He said we should.
Okay.

And that made you think negatively about God enough to not believe anymore? What was it that made you believe in the first place?
Well, in part yes. What other representation is there supposed to be in the world then if not for people that claim to know him? Plus, I don't see how a deity could be worth worshipping who let's all this filth go on but still expect people to "push through" without making himself explicitly known. And then blaming us for not getting it. Or how this works for people born in some isolated little village that were born and die in their own pagan religions because they never heard about the alleged true god (and just so you know, I was raised Christian, I didnt choose it). There's too many questions that will probably never get answered but this is taking the thread off topic so I'll end it here.

Is a man able to give birth? That is special only to women.
One of these days, maybe. As unnatural as that sounds and is.

Sure, but it is better to not be unequally yoked.
Is there really a point if it fails anyway?
 

Karlysymon

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Ok I don't believe Jesus died for my sins so I'll skip that.
I only accept what Jesus says.
Iam only asking this for the sake of intellectual consistency.

Here are 4 verses where Jesus says that He is going to die and the purpose thereof.

Mark 10:33-34
‘We are going up to Jerusalem,’ he said, ‘and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles,34 who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise.’
Matthew 20:28
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.’
Matthew 26:27-28
Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the[b]covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Matthew 26:31-32
Then Jesus told them, ‘This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written:
‘“I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.”[c]

32 But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.’


So what exactly is it that you accept about Jesus? Just His ethical teachings, perhaps? Because I honestly don’t understand how you can believe or hold two opposing beliefs in your mind. The opposing beliefs being: Koran says- Jesus didn’t die for any sins, someone else took His place, avows redemption through shedding of blood etc against the obviously contradictory statements in the Christian scriptures. There is no way that you can wholeheartedly believe what Islam teaches and at the same time wholeheartedly accept Christ’s statements about His mission on earth. If you told us today that your favorite color is purple and someone else, 50yrs later, comes along and tells us that you said it was beige, which account do you think we should believe?

If you argue that all the above verses are interpolations or forced into His mouth, so to speak, I ask, how and when do you determine that? If the whole text is corrupt, Muslims would as soon dispense with the whole “Muhammad is predicted in the Torah” when they appeal to Isaiah 42 and Deuteronomy 17.

This question is similar to the one I asked Col. Valerio. He said:
Creationist pseudoscience is the worlds biggest disinformation campaign and opened the door for “fake news”.

The Bible is discredited if taken literally,........I don’t have a problem with the ethical teachings of Jesus
I asked:
Since you don’t have a problem with Jesus’ ethical teachings, do you hold the appeals He makes to history/OT historicity (therefore reaffirming the authenticity of the text and it’s contents) in the same regard?

Matthew 19:3-6

In the Olivet Discourse, He brings up Noah’s flood and Lot’s escape. So, do you think He was just regaling His audience with fables? Do you think He was reading the OT scrolls too literally? Especially, in regard to man’s origins or what you call “creationist pseudoscience”, who should we believe: Col. Valerio/Darwin or Christ?
 
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