No regard...for the desire of women

[Swiftturtle]

I agree with what you are saying, but be very careful. Todd wants other weaker Christians to convert to his system of unbelief in the bible. He needs to repent of these terrible sins but he has revealed for a long time that he has a very hardened heart to Christian doctrines he now hates.

You need to think of readers' needs way more than this apostate's feelings in cases like these, otherwise people unfamiliar with Christianity might mistakenly think Christians are attacking another fellow Christian. Todd is now not a Christian.

I see where you’re concern comes from. I think you’re both very passionate, so it’s understandable that you disagree at times. I also disagree with his POV, but he listened to my POV, I listened to his, and neither of us have changed our positions. God has to take it from there, that is about all I can do, the rest is up to God.

I understand wholeheartedly that a new Christian might be confused when he and I don't agree, but I have to wonder if they’d also wonder why we’d hammer each other to death when it won’t change either of our POV’s. As a new Christian, if I saw death blows, I’d think “what MMFA situation did I get myself into? This doesn’t look like loving a neighbor.” I haven’t changed my belief, and he didn’t change his either.
I don’t personally think I treat ppl with kid gloves (my friends would actually go wide eyed if someone said I’m too nice, hah). I’m actually a little disappointed in myself bc of the way I’ve handled a couple of other ones.

At the end of the day, there are always things I regret that I chat with God about, and I know I would’ve regretted escalating it and throwing punches instead of giving it to God. Thank goodness Jesus loves my mess, bc I don’t deserve it

 

[JoChris]

I see where you’re concern comes from. I think you’re both very passionate, so it’s understandable that you disagree at times. I also disagree with his POV, but he listened to my POV, I listened to his, and neither of us have changed our positions. God has to take it from there, that is about all I can do, the rest is up to God.

I understand wholeheartedly that a new Christian might be confused when he and I don't agree, but I have to wonder if they’d also wonder why we’d hammer each other to death when it won’t change either of our POV’s. As a new Christian, if I saw death blows, I’d think “what MMFA situation did I get myself into? This doesn’t look like loving a neighbor.” I haven’t changed my belief, and he didn’t change his either.
I don’t personally think I treat ppl with kid gloves (my friends would actually go wide eyed if someone said I’m too nice, hah). I’m actually a little disappointed in myself bc of the way I’ve handled a couple of other ones.

At the end of the day, there are always things I regret that I chat with God about, and I know I would’ve regretted escalating it and throwing punches instead of giving it to God. Thank goodness Jesus loves my mess, bc I don’t deserve it

The doctrines Todd has rejected is not on the same level as different positions on the End Times, or if miracles are for today, or if woman are permitted to be pastors.....

Read his post. He denies Jesus is God.
1 John 4:1-3 does not say Jesus is God, only that Jesus came from God. Again you cannot show me any scripture that says I must believe Jesus is God

The Bible does not recognize the Deity of Christ.....
https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/my-idea-of-what-salvation-is-for-douglas-summers.6134/post-226820

A person who denies Jesus is God is not a Christian. It really is that simple.

Todd has rejected Christianity. It is unloving to pretend to others that he is still a Christian.

 

[JoChris]

False accusation. I actually investigated and embraced Apokatastasis due to Paul’s writings. The other apostles accepted him as a beloved brother but none of them ever affirmed or recognized him as an Apostle.


All my beliefs are based on the Bible

No it’s not. I have shown multiples times the Greek word translated forever does not actually mean forever.

Jesus is my Lord and Savior

I’m not really concerned whether you and Lisa accept me as a Christian. If you and her represent the norm in Christianity I don’t really want to be considered a Christian...but thankfully that isn’t the case. I have plenty of brothers and sisters in Christ who accept me.

Those self-professed Christians are not Christians either if they do not believe Jesus is God made Flesh + many other core doctrines.

Don't compare yourself to other Christians here. Compare yourself to the bible's checklists in 1 John.

1 John 1: 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only ***begotten Son ***into the world, that we might live through him.

5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

https://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_godsonlybegottenson/

You have rejected Jesus Christ of the Bible.

 

[Todd]

I agree with what you are saying, but be very careful. Todd wants other weaker Christians to convert to his system of unbelief in the bible. He needs to repent of these terrible sins but he has revealed for a long time that he has a very hardened heart to Christian doctrines he now hates.

You need to think of readers' needs way more than this apostate's feelings in cases like these, otherwise people unfamiliar with Christianity might mistakenly think Christians are attacking another fellow Christian. Todd is now not a Christian.

Those self-professed Christians are not Christians either if they do not believe Jesus is God made Flesh + many other core doctrines.

Don't compare yourself to other Christians here. Compare yourself to the bible's checklists in 1 John.

1 John 1: 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only ***begotten Son ***into the world, that we might live through him.

5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

https://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_godsonlybegottenson/

You have rejected Jesus Christ of the Bible.

I don't compare myself to Christian's here. I don't compare myself to anyone except Jesus Christ, who I have thus far failed to live up to. But as he is my example of how to live the perfect spirit led life and how to be 100% submitted to the will of God, I will continue to compare myself to him and continue to repent when I fall short.

The scriptures you listed above never say anything about believing Jesus is God. They talk about believing in the Son. I believe Jesus is the Son of God, so I pass your "checklist" with flying colors. You are the one adding something to scripture that isn't there.

 

[Serveto]

You need to think of readers' needs way more than this apostate's feelings in cases like these, otherwise people unfamiliar with Christianity might mistakenly think Christians are attacking another fellow Christian. Todd is now not a Christian.

On the other hand, readers at least somewhat familiar with the history of Christianity will, or should, recognize here a continuation of age-old conflicts between competing, irreconcilable, at times violent strains of it: Paulines vs. Ebionites, Trinitarianism vs. Unitarianism, Athanasius vs. Arius, Calvin vs. Servetus, and so on. That's why this place, as a conspiratorial discussion board, is more interesting than CARM, though it often seems to be confused with and mistaken for it.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

 

[Todd]

View attachment 24940

Too much is made of the issue of heresy. The purpose of a website such as CARM is to defend what is traditionally accepted as right in Christianity. Christianity as a whole has done as much harm as it had done good in this world. Maybe re-evaluating what is traditionally accepted as right in Christianity is long overdue.

Heresy: belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious doctrine
Orthodox: conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved

Jesus was the ultimate heretic. Every reformer of the church by definition was heretic in his time.

 

[Lisa]

Going back to my op....
I think that the topics I brought up were very valid to the point of having no regard for the desire of women. When you disregard what women really desire, marriage to a man and children then as we see in the world around us, things get a little crazy, anything seems to go. It’s interesting to me that when you start a protest that it can never stop or be good enough. I’m talking feminism. I think that when women started thinking more about themselves, they stopped thinking about the people who really needed them and I think it snowballed into more than what women really wanted, where being home and being the loving parent to their kids became a bad thing. Goes back to scripture that says good is evil and evil is good. I think that when we decided to act without God, we turned our kids and spouses lives upside down and it has spiraled out of control.

I think that even women look down at other women who stay at home for whatever reasons, trying to maybe assuage their guilt for going to work when they know they should be home. Because I think that God who made us, and made us with the bodies to have babies, made us to be nurturers created us for that reason. I know He created us to help our husbands. Now there’s woman’s equality and women trying so hard to act like they are just like men. A gender war was created when God has an order to things..there can’t be two heads in a household, if a house is divided against itself it cannot stand Mark 3:25. You can’t have two heads. I see where women were feeling like they had no say in previous generations, but taking it all on themselves to fix the problem and not going to God was the wrong approach.

I think many women feel as if their lives are more out of control in that maybe they made wrong choices and would have liked to stay home with their most precious assets, their children but feel they are unable to in a world that is now designed to move women away from what they really want and designed to want to ridicule them for wanting their real desires, the ones that God gave to them. I think that’s plays into the antichrist spirit, and I think that the antichrist will continue that philosophy when he comes on the scene.

 

[Todd]

That's a pretty big pressumption @Lisa that all women just want a man and have kids.

I think the idea of traditional roles of Men and Women were driven in the past by the realities of life before the industrial age. Large families were a neccestity as most people lived off the land, farming, raising livestock, etc. Because of the physical nature of the labor involved and the reality that women by nature are more nuturing, the traditional roles of men and women were defined out of survival.

In modern industrial age, large families are not a neccessity and even when couples decide to have children the traditional role of the female as the stay at home Mom now only lasts for about 20 years out of a life expectancy of 80 years. To be honest with many modern day conveniences it's not like managing a household of two adults and two kids is anything like what managing a household in the 1800's was. Yes the infant and toddler years and even the pre-teen years when "soccer mom duties" can get overwhelming, might be too much to juggle career and motherhood, but it's not anywhere near the same as the days when running a household meant washing clothes by hand, sewing and mending clothing and bedding, baking bread, and plucking the feathers out of the chicken before baking it.

Women can still fulfill the nuturing role while still doing so much more in society today. There is nothing wrong with females who truly want what you are describing @Lisa, but to lay a guilt trip on the all the women who want something else or want more than that is not realistic in todays world.

 

[Lisa]

That's a pretty big pressumption @Lisa that all women just want a man and have kids.

I think the idea of traditional roles of Men and Women were driven in the past by the realities of life before the industrial age. Large families were a neccestity as most people lived off the land, farming, raising livestock, etc. Because of the physical nature of the labor involved and the reality that women by nature are more nuturing, the traditional roles of men and women were defined out of survival.

In modern industrial age, large families are not a neccessity and even when couples decide to have children the traditional role of the female as the stay at home Mom now only lasts for about 20 years out of a life expectancy of 80 years. To be honest with many modern day conveniences it's not like managing a household of two adults and two kids is anything like what managing a household in the 1800's was. Yes the infant and toddler years and even the pre-teen years when "soccer mom duties" can get overwhelming, might be too much to juggle career and motherhood, but it's not anywhere near the same as the days when running a household meant washing clothes by hand, sewing and mending clothing and bedding, baking bread, and plucking the feathers out of the chicken before baking it.

Women can still fulfill the nuturing role while still doing so much more in society today. There is nothing wrong with females who truly want what you are describing @Lisa, but to lay a guilt trip on the all the women who want something else or want more than that is not realistic in todays world.

Its not a guilt trip..I think that is what God wanted for woman and that society has gotten very far from that. I wonder if women weren’t taking up the man’s role in providing in the work place then men could have a living wage and support their families..but now not only do they have to compete against each other, they have to compete against women...and that adds to the problem we now have where we want a living wage but can’t seem to find it with everyone at work. And that has destroyed the family in my opinion. The adults are working and someone else is raising the kids, do they have your values? Maybe, but your kids are now going to have theirs...

Out of survival? Women bear children..that’s not out of survival, that’s ordained by God.

Teens need their parents to be around, perhaps if one of the parents was home during the teen years, we might not have so many mixed up teens...

Women could fulfill their role in today’s society by doing what God wanted for them in the first place, and that from experience is very fulfilling. I understand that much of why woman wanted to be able to work is because they had nothing to do after their kids grew up and staying home wasn’t all that fulfilling anymore. However, they happened to mess up the younger women’s needs in trying to change women’s roles and that ended up messing up the family and starting a gender war. It was the wrong way to go if you ask me.

 

[Todd]

Its not a guilt trip..I think that is what God wanted for woman and that society has gotten very far from that.

Exactly it's what YOU think God wanted for woman.

I wonder if women weren’t taking up the man’s role in providing in the work place then men could have a living wage and support their families..but now not only do they have to compete against each other, they have to compete against women...and that adds to the problem we now have where we want a living wage but can’t seem to find it with everyone at work. And that has destroyed the family in my opinion. The adults are working and someone else is raising the kids, do they have your values? Maybe, but your kids are now going to have theirs...

Out of survival? Women bear children..that’s not out of survival, that’s ordained by God.

I meant the need for large families was based on survival. It was almost impossible to live as a single person alone. Being part of a large family was beneficial for survival. Today that need doesn't exist for survival.

Teens need their parents to be around, perhaps if one of the parents was home during the teen years, we might not have so many mixed up teens...

Women could fulfill their role in today’s society by doing what God wanted for them in the first place, and that from experience is very fulfilling. I understand that much of why woman wanted to be able to work is because they had nothing to do after their kids grew up and staying home wasn’t all that fulfilling anymore. However, they happened to mess up the younger women’s needs in trying to change women’s roles and that ended up messing up the family and starting a gender war. It was the wrong way to go if you ask me.

I'm not denying the advantage of a stay at home mom at all. I think it is ideal also. But in our modern day and age that's only typically 20 years out of a lifespan of 80 years. (Or do you think stay at mom homes should be like the Bates and Duggards and have 20 kids?) What's a stay at home Mom supposed to do the the other 40 years of her adult life?

You might be right about the gender war thing, but like anything there is the extreme at both ends. I just think you are bit in the opposite extreme that's all. There is nothing wrong with feeling the way you do or wanting what you are describing I just think you can't put that on all women.

 

[justjess]

Not all women are the same. Not all women want the same thing. Having a uterus and vagina does not dictate a persons life ambitions. If that’s all YOURS amounted to, great! Be a stay at home mom then. No one cares or thinks less of you for that - they start thinking less of you when you start looking down on women who can’t or don’t want to do the same thing.

Feminism isn’t the reason we don’t have living wages. Sorry. Unrestrained Capitalism is.

 

[JoChris]

I don't compare myself to Christian's here. I don't compare myself to anyone except Jesus Christ, who I have thus far failed to live up to. But as he is my example of how to live the perfect spirit led life and how to be 100% submitted to the will of God, I will continue to compare myself to him and continue to repent when I fall short.

The scriptures you listed above never say anything about believing Jesus is God. They talk about believing in the Son. I believe Jesus is the Son of God, so I pass your "checklist" with flying colors. You are the one adding something to scripture that isn't there.

There is a massive difference between "Son" and "begotten Son". You know that Todd. You chose to reject that essential doctrine.

https://www.compellingtruth.org/only-begotten-son.html

 

[JoChris]

On the other hand, readers at least somewhat familiar with the history of Christianity will, or should, recognize here a continuation of age-old conflicts between competing, irreconcilable, at times violent strains of it: Paulines vs. Ebionites, Trinitarianism vs. Unitarianism, Athanasius vs. Arius, Calvin vs. Servetus, and so on. That's why this place, as a conspiratorial discussion board, is more interesting than CARM, though it often seems to be confused with and mistaken for it.

It is the religious section of the forum.
Todd is sneaking in false doctrines that he has embraced and is being used by Satan to cause confusion. He needs to be exposed.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

 

[JoChris]

Too much is made of the issue of heresy.....

Says a man who has embraced heresy.

Jesus was the ultimate heretic. Every reformer of the church by definition was heretic in his time.

Time for you to start a new thread to defend that claim of yours.

 

[Serveto]

It is the religious section of the forum.
Todd is sneaking in false doctrines that he has embraced and is being used by Satan to cause confusion. He needs to be exposed.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Where else, other than this Religion & Spirituality sub-forum, are we supposed to be able to discuss conspiracies related to organized religions, Islam and Christianity included? Expose away, and do what you must, but some of us are going to continue to discuss conspiracies, and a conspiracy board has a tendency to dry up and blow away without occasional, active conspiracy theorists, such as @Todd, to contribute.

 

[JoChris]

Where else, other than this Religion & Spirituality sub-forum, are we supposed to be able to discuss conspiracies related to organized religions, Islam and Christianity included? Expose away, and do what you must, but some of us are going to continue to discuss conspiracies, and a conspiracy board has a tendency to dry up and blow away without occasional, active conspiracy theorists, such as @Todd, to contribute.

Look I agree with you, this is the perfect place for people of alternative beliefs to have it out with Christians because of next to no censorship.
What I want is that Todd stops pretending he is a Christian and take it from there. Other readers have the right to know Todd has an alternative belief system. He should openly defend his faith just like Christians are expected to present ours openly and truthfully.

A conspiracy forum is trying to get the whole truth out that mainstream society tries to hide, shouldn't the religious section have the same goal as well?

 

[Serveto]

Look I agree with you, this is the perfect place for people of alternative beliefs to have it out with Christians because of next to no censorship.
What I want is that Todd stops pretending he is a Christian and take it from there. Other readers have the right to know Todd has an alternative belief system. He should openly defend his faith just like Christians are expected to present ours openly and truthfully.

A conspiracy forum is trying to get the whole truth out that mainstream society tries to hide, shouldn't the religious section have the same goal as well?

Thank you for explaining. I leave it to you to work out your issues with @Todd, to the extent possible.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

 

[justjess]

Unitarian Christians have existed since Christians have existed. Pretending otherwise is just as dishonest as what you accuse Todd of being.