School is social engineering

Frank Badfinger

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George Carlin said it best:

"But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting f**ked by a system that threw them overboard 30 f**king years ago."

"You know what they want? Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly $hittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And, now, they're coming for your Social Security. They want your f**king retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this f**king place. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club." - George Carlin
 

B_JMNN

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I don't remember the name of this philosopher that said school is designed just like the prison system but I agree with that. School doesn't teach the youth to be functional human beings. It teaches the youth to obey, to believe everything their teachers say (or anyone in a position of power). Don't question things, don't speak up, if you talk back to your teachers you're misbehaving and deserve punishment. Conformity of thought, of behaviour.
Sit in a class all day long. I mean in certain countries like Spain and Germany they only have school half a day and the afternoon is dedicated to sports and other activities. Unsurprisingly they're doing better than other countries where they have school all day long.

I remember a few years ago, my philosophy teacher said "if you feel like your life starts when you get out of work, it means you're alienated." That's always how I felt at school tbh.

What are your thoughts on the matter?
Native Americans and other ethnics know this first hand. Kids were forced from their parents to "attend school." They cut their hair, gave a wacking if you talked your language. Those were schools to force a change on a people, to obey their laws and ways.

In a way the same way Schools teach our children to obey and if they go against their teachings, off to detention or some other form of punishment. I knew some high school kids whom would question the teachers, give them a different way of doing it. The teacher would tell them to be quiet or get upset. I know other teachers that were engaging with students and would answer their question or accept the students ideas.

Now it's becoming where teachers don't have enough time to even teach these kids anything. It's all about preparing for testing or college which leaves these teachers only being able to teach those ideas of the tests answers and not to ask questions and think for themselves.
 

Lisa

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Meanwhile in the real world, kids leave high school and are clueless as to how banking, budgeting, investments, mortgages, interest and the stock market work. Heck, many don't even know basic math. And it's all done by design.
I thought it was because kids aren’t interested in learning and more interested in social interactions and being the cool kids. Used to be that it was good to go to school for your future, but now you could be a social media star...
I knew a lady who’s son liked going to school not because he wanted to learn, he did terrible in school, but because he liked the social aspect, where he shined.
I also think that kids aren’t encouraged to think well of authority, ie no one tells me what to do, and they learned it from home. I would hate to be a teacher now a days..you’ve got students that don’t care and parents that back that up. Though, I can’t say that once my kids got to high school, that I was impressed by their teachers either.
 

Sunshine

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So would you rather not have access to a free public education? Granted, the system as it stands could use some improvement. But the Founders, including Washington and Jefferson, had very good reasons for advocating such a system in the nation's infancy. Namely, that a fairly standard education would create a society better able to maintain the democracy they had begun.

"Common schools," as they called them, were open to people of all socio-economic backgrounds, and were designed to expose children to other kids from those various backgrounds, which, for the most part, they still do. That idea was even reinforced and expanded upon after Brown vs. Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas, the famous Supreme Court case that led to bussing of students and racial integration in the 1950's to today.

You may view public schools as mere "social engineering," and in a way, you are correct. They were meant to "engineer" us into a society with a common body of knowledge upon which to draw when figuring out how to coexist, compromise, and take part in government.

That modern politicians have taken the opportunity to "dumb down" schools in the last 30 years is, of course, to our detriment as a nation. How can tomorrow's citizens stand up for their rights if they don't know what they are? I've seen recent high school graduates that can't even do simple math, much less understand and appreciate the Bill of Rights.

Since you have the access, one might even say mandate, to go to school, whether you like it or not, you take that education they are giving you and you wring every drop of information and perspective from it that you can get. Don't do what so many of us have done, and take it for granted. Because it's only when you have to pay for it, that you realize what a gift it is. Even in the sh*ttiest school, you have access to scholarships and activities and opportunities that you won't find anywhere else. Take the drama class, do the sports, the chess club, whatever speaks to you. It will lead to rewarding experiences and relationships that have nothing to do with a classroom.

Think of all the kids born in third world countries, that can only dream of going to school while they're walking 3 miles to the water well, or what have you. For their sakes, don't whine about what you have been handed on a silver platter. Rock that sh*t and try to prepare yourself the best you can for the outside world. Because, despite everything you hate about school, it's one of the best tools you have to be able to do what you want once you've graduated.
 

elsbet

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I guess the trade off to school all day is that you have the whole summer off.

Don’t you think things start out sooner than school? Women don’t raise their children anymore, day care does..so you are getting trained up by someone else almost from birth.
Think about this..if you’re not in school learning something, what would the kids be doing anyway? It’s been said that idle hands are the devil’s workshop. It seems to be up to the parents to try to counter some the things taught in schools, but again that isn’t easy when you’re grade depends on towing the line...there doesn’t seem to be an easy answer to the conundrum.
Nothing wrong with school... it's the crappy curriculum that is the problem.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I once questioned a flustered Biology teacher on how a random mix of left and right handed amino acids could possibly form a viable protein (never mind life). Her answer was so rambling and obtuse (and fatuous) I realised then that my function was to take in and repeat the content I had been told.

Years later, during a lesson where I was shadowing a teacher (before I abandoned the idea of teaching science altogether) I was told before a class that the “science” she was about to impart to the kids in explanation for Evolution was untrue, but it was “important that they got the idea”...

On another occasion I was moderating grades with a view to placing kids into sets for GCSEs - one guy had hopeless handwriting, a patchy knowledge of maths but was really good at science (in fact the only thing he was good at). He got put in a bottom group for everything because it was too much trouble to make allowances for him to be in the top science group.

Not long after that, I lost interest in being part of the education system ;-)
 

Haich

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Not long after that, I lost interest in being part of the education system ;-)
Me too!

Teaching a stack of unrelatable books from the 1800s- 1940s to teens who hadn't the foggiest about terms such as 'juxtaposition ' and 'hyperbole'. They were then required to consolidate masses of information in such a tight time frame, regurgitate questionable topics by sitting a Tory tampered, unnecessarily modified GCSE exam.

I was in English and I just couldn't abide by what they had introduced. So long secondary admin and outdated CLASS systems.
 

Haich

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I guess the trade off to school all day is that you have the whole summer off.

Don’t you think things start out sooner than school? Women don’t raise their children anymore, day care does..so you are getting trained up by someone else almost from birth.
Think about this..if you’re not in school learning something, what would the kids be doing anyway? It’s been said that idle hands are the devil’s workshop. It seems to be up to the parents to try to counter some the things taught in schools, but again that isn’t easy when you’re grade depends on towing the line...there doesn’t seem to be an easy answer to the conundrum.
Sorry, I just had to pick out the statement about women not raising their kids anymore. What exactly is that sweeping statement based on? I agree that many women have no choice but to work but that's due to societal factors such as the increasing cost of living, breakdown of the family home and no wider familial support. Most women have no choice but to work is what I'm saying...

In the UK, it's virtually impossible to live on benefits and many women do go to work in order to put food on the table. There are a lot of single mothers out there that may be offended by what you've said actually, maybe just consider that
 

Haich

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I have no knowledge of the American school system but in England it is quite robust and there are extensive guidelines on which educational needs need to be met for each year group. I remember being jealous of American kids as a youth, because they didn't wear school uniform!

I don't agree with the approach though, sitting in a class for six to eight odd hours listening to teachers drumming on about covalent bonds doesn't work.

I do think many parents would go private if it was a feasible choice but for most it just isn't. There aren't many homeschooling options too, so if you were to seek alternative methods of education it would mean sacrificing your own job to put together a passable curriculum the local authority would give the stamp of approval.

The education system is great in theory and on paper, not necessarily in practice.
 

Lisa

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Sorry, I just had to pick out the statement about women not raising their kids anymore. What exactly is that sweeping statement based on? I agree that many women have no choice but to work but that's due to societal factors such as the increasing cost of living, breakdown of the family home and no wider familial support. Most women have no choice but to work is what I'm saying...

In the UK, it's virtually impossible to live on benefits and many women do go to work in order to put food on the table. There are a lot of single mothers out there that may be offended by what you've said actually, maybe just consider that
Day care raises people’s children is what I meant.
 

Lisa

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Raise the minimum wage and invest in better paying job opportunities or a more robust safety net and that will no longer be a necessity.. until then
Whatever the reasons..day care raises people’s children.
 

polymoog

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Haich

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Day care raises people’s children is what I meant.
You know, the sound mind would automatically conclude most women don't have a choice but to send their kids to daycare. They'd probably criticize the lack of support they get from the local authority but no, not you....

Are you ever going to show empathy for others?
 

Haich

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I mean I feel quite strongly about that which is why i pulled you up on it.

Where i live, i see women rushing to work and dropping their under 3s at private nurseries which cost an absolute fortune. Not everyone has it easy and having spoken to some of these women, it pains them to leave their kids in the company of others but they have no choice.

Just to give you an idea of british life, there are various taxes you pay on top of you normal government taxes. There's council tax (£100-£180 per month depending on where you live), you have road tax and extortionate car insurance rates which can cost upwards of £3,000 if you're a young driver. Theres rent which in london has sky rocketed, there's utilities, there's the cost of public transport which again is crazy high...

Who exactly is going to help these single parents pay for all this? The only help they get from the government is the flawed universal credit which if they're lucky, will probably give them £80 a fortnight.

Consider yourself blessed that you don't have to struggle like they do.
 

Haich

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So the crazy cost of living and stagnate pay, is probably another reason parents just send their kids to school. They can't simply afford to take them out and explore alternative modes of education.

Unless your parents are of blue blood, you're going to the local school!
 

Lisa

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You know, the sound mind would automatically conclude most women don't have a choice but to send their kids to daycare. They'd probably criticize the lack of support they get from the local authority but no, not you....

Are you ever going to show empathy for others?
The sound mind would think there are many different reasons why people send their kids to daycare. However, it is a true statement whether liked or not that daycare raises people children.

I mean I feel quite strongly about that which is why i pulled you up on it.

Where i live, i see women rushing to work and dropping their under 3s at private nurseries which cost an absolute fortune. Not everyone has it easy and having spoken to some of these women, it pains them to leave their kids in the company of others but they have no choice.

Just to give you an idea of british life, there are various taxes you pay on top of you normal government taxes. There's council tax (£100-£180 per month depending on where you live), you have road tax and extortionate car insurance rates which can cost upwards of £3,000 if you're a young driver. Theres rent which in london has sky rocketed, there's utilities, there's the cost of public transport which again is crazy high...

Who exactly is going to help these single parents pay for all this? The only help they get from the government is the flawed universal credit which if they're lucky, will probably give them £80 a fortnight.

Consider yourself blessed that you don't have to struggle like they do.
Life is hard anywhere you live..

I am blessed that God had a plan and that plan was that I stayed home with my kids. We were the poorest people in the neighborhood, but that was ok because I could stay home.
 

Dalit

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https://www.wral.com/mvp-math-suing-wake-county-parent-for-libel-and-slander-after-he-criticized-program/18540021/

MVP math suing Wake County parent for 'libel and slander' after he criticized program

Raleigh, N.C. — The company behind a controversial math curriculum being used in Wake County public schools has filed a lawsuit against a Cary parent, accusing him of "libel and slander" and "tortious interference with business relations" after he criticized the program.... (more on link)
Wow. It's probably like Common Core. Schools went from more common sense learning to confusing students and parents. Never thought I would say this, but I get why homeschooling is growing and why good teachers are leaving the profession. I know two excellent teachers (one teacher of the year!) who got fed up and left.
 

Haich

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The sound mind would think there are many different reasons why people send their kids to daycare. However, it is a true statement whether liked or not that daycare raises people children.


Life is hard anywhere you live..

I am blessed that God had a plan and that plan was that I stayed home with my kids. We were the poorest people in the neighborhood, but that was ok because I could stay home.
I'm sure there are plenty of parents who take their kids to daycare and instill some goodness in them. I think we should be more critical of the factors which cause this.

That's fine, that post wasn't directed at you. I just wanted people to appreciate the struggle of single parents where I live. People are mistaken if they think that in the west, everyone has it super easy.

The key word is could, you were able to. Most aren't.
 
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