Trump wants to clean up

justjess

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Is your vacation over already? That was a short 2 weeks...

Lol..what contempt? It’s not contempt to think that giving people handouts isn’t helping anyone out of homelessness but is enabling them. That the homeless shouldn’t be able to live on the streets, disrupt businesses and use the streets as a toilet. Why would I want to see people live in such a way, why would you want them to?
No Lisa. I’m sure you wish it was... I am capable of doing more than one thing at a time though. Kids (and husbands) take naps. I don’t.

You don’t have a positive or empathetic thing to say about anyone struggling with anything. That reads as contempt. Sorry. You call any form of assistance a handout and refuse to acknowledge any societal condition that contributes to these issues or offer any way to remedy them at all. Despite your god directly telling you to help the poor and disadvantaged. If that’s not contempt I don’t know what is.
 

Lisa

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No Lisa. I’m sure you wish it was... I am capable of doing more than one thing at a time though. Kids (and husbands) take naps. I don’t.

You don’t have a positive or empathetic thing to say about anyone struggling with anything. That reads as contempt. Sorry. You call any form of assistance a handout and refuse to acknowledge any societal condition that contributes to these issues or offer any way to remedy them at all. Despite your god directly telling you to help the poor and disadvantaged. If that’s not contempt I don’t know what is.
O, ok...

Societal conditions...like the opioid epidemic? Ya, that’s bad..probably contributes to the homeless population.

I say that handouts don’t fix the homelessness..don’t know why just saying that bothers you. Do I need to offer a remedy to know that handouts aren’t helping? :rolleyes:
 

justjess

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O, ok...

Societal conditions...like the opioid epidemic? Ya, that’s bad..probably contributes to the homeless population.

I say that handouts don’t fix the homelessness..don’t know why just saying that bothers you. Do I need to offer a remedy to know that handouts aren’t helping? :rolleyes:
Societal conditions like stagnating wages and skyrocketing housing costs. Conditions like those which you chose over and over again to ignore.

Giving a starving person food or shelter isn’t a handout - whatever the fuck that means. It’s the right thing to do. According to YOUR GOD. And all the things that do work - job programs, higher wages, public housing - you are against as well. That’s contemptful. That’s heartless. And Jesus won’t like it.
 
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I don’t read archaic languages...sorry.
I don’t read archaic languages...sorry.
Then look up Matthew 25:31-46 in your preferred translation and please tell me what you think it means. I'm trying to have a genuine conversation over the meaning of the passage since it related to the topic at hand. I'm not judging you; I just want to know what you think it means.

And for the record; I consider myself Christian. So you aren't arguing with a non-believer.
 

Lisa

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Societal conditions like stagnating wages and skyrocketing housing costs. Conditions like those which you chose over and over again to ignore.

Giving a starving person food or shelter isn’t a handout - whatever the fuck that means. It’s the right thing to do. According to YOUR GOD. And all the things that do work - job programs, higher wages, public housing - you are against as well. That’s contemptful. That’s heartless. And Jesus won’t like it.
What are ya talking about? I was in target today and the minimum wage there was $13...a few years ago the minimum wage there was $8.50.

I don’t ignore it, I just think the biggest problem is addiction and that’s hard to fix, you’re not fixing it with a food handout, that’s for sure. I think those food handouts are just so people feel good and think they are doing something for the homeless not that they are.

A handout...they didn’t work for it, it was given to them.

Now your grasping at straws! I’ve never said anything about higher wages or job programs.

I don’t think handouts should be a way of life but a helping hand and the problem is that many people use it as a way of life.
 

Lisa

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Then look up Matthew 25:31-46 in your preferred translation and please tell me what you think it means. I'm trying to have a genuine conversation over the meaning of the passage since it related to the topic at hand. I'm not judging you; I just want to know what you think it means.

And for the record; I consider myself Christian. So you aren't arguing with a non-believer.
O...I think you will use my reply to judge me and I already know that I won’t measure up.

Edit:
Actually, I will say this...when Jesus says when I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, so you really think he meant feed someone for a lifetime? I don’t. And the reason I say this is because of Ruth. In the book of Ruth, they are poor and have nothing yet they didn’t go to get the handout..they went to glean in the fields.
RUTH‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭
And Ruth the Moabitess said to Naomi, “Please let me go to the field and glean among the ears of grain after one in whose sight I may find favor.” And she said to her, “Go, my daughter.”
The farmers always left a little on the outskirts for the poor people to come and glean from. They didn’t harvest it all and give to the poor, the poor had to work for their portion too.

It’s good for people to work and not get handouts. I think handouts make you more dependent and it makes you less likely to get out of whatever situation your in, makes you more depressed that you can’t help yourself. However, I think that going and working is a boost to your self esteem and is good for your soul. It’s not bad to want to teach someone to fish for their own supper instead of keeping them dependent on you by feeding them everyday.
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O...I think you will use my reply to judge me and I already know that I won’t measure up.

Edit:
Actually, I will say this...when Jesus says when I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, so you really think he meant feed someone for a lifetime? I don’t. And the reason I say this is because of Ruth. In the book of Ruth, they are poor and have nothing yet they didn’t go to get the handout..they went to glean in the fields.
RUTH‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭​

And Ruth the Moabitess said to Naomi, “Please let me go to the field and glean among the ears of grain after one in whose sight I may find favor.” And she said to her, “Go, my daughter.”​

The farmers always left a little on the outskirts for the poor people to come and glean from. They didn’t harvest it all and give to the poor, the poor had to work for their portion too.

It’s good for people to work and not get handouts. I think handouts make you more dependent and it makes you less likely to get out of whatever situation your in, makes you more depressed that you can’t help yourself. However, I think that going and working is a boost to your self esteem and is good for your soul. It’s not bad to want to teach someone to fish for their own supper instead of keeping them dependent on you by feeding them everyday.
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He didn't say how long. And you're right. Homeless people shouldn't have to live handout to handout. Unfortunately, the way things are set up (here in America, I can't speak for the rest of the world) homelessness means that you can't even qualify for a lot of aid programs we have. 'cause, you know, having no address means you can't apply for help. How can you even get off your feet when there's no floor to stand on?

And some of the stuff you've said in this thread is flat out ignorant. I don't mean that as an insult, mind you, as much as I mean you're unaware of certain things. Soup kitchens encourage homelessness? There were situations where my family had to use a local churches food pantry to have enough food to eat. We, and the vast majority of the people there weren't proud about it. We were ashamed. From what I hear about people who work in soup kitchens, most homeless feel the same.


Although seriously. You seeming disdain for the poor and the less fortunate... You wonder why Christianity has a bad wrap. It ain't the Illuminati. It's my fellow Christians.
 

Lisa

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He didn't say how long. And you're right. Homeless people shouldn't have to live handout to handout. Unfortunately, the way things are set up (here in America, I can't speak for the rest of the world) homelessness means that you can't even qualify for a lot of aid programs we have. 'cause, you know, having no address means you can't apply for help. How can you even get off your feet when there's no floor to stand on?

And some of the stuff you've said in this thread is flat out ignorant. I don't mean that as an insult, mind you, as much as I mean you're unaware of certain things. Soup kitchens encourage homelessness? There were situations where my family had to use a local churches food pantry to have enough food to eat. We, and the vast majority of the people there weren't proud about it. We were ashamed. From what I hear about people who work in soup kitchens, most homeless feel the same.


Although seriously. You seeming disdain for the poor and the less fortunate... You wonder why Christianity has a bad wrap. It ain't the Illuminati. It's my fellow Christians.
Homeless people shouldn’t live hand out to hand out..that’s very true. And I guess, if they got off the drugs, or stopped with the alcohol they probably would do much better in their recovery. There are addiction programs people can get into. The fact is that addicts want to be addicts and want to live that life of addiction and until they can admit to themselves that they have a problem then they aren’t going to be able to recover. I believe that is the truth, because the family friend I mentioned earlier, can’t admit he has a problem and he’s still got the problem.

Are you saying that soup kitchens and food pantry’s are the same? I think that food pantry’s are for people struggling to get by and if they need it than that is one thing. The other, is soup kitchens, feeding people who have no intention of supporting themselves and trying to work. I don’t see where feeding them for life is helping them but enabling them to continue in living the life they are living. If you don’t have any way to eat...maybe you might stop what you’re doing and go back to work..got to have some incentive for people to quit.

I don’t disdain the poor or the less fortunate but I have a hard time calling addicts poor and less fortunate. They are homeless by their own poor choices, their own selfishness.

I know why Christianity has a bad wrap..and you should too.
John‬ ‭15:18-19‬ ‭
If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
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Let me ask you @Corvus Metus, what did you think about Ruth going gleaning? She was poor and God had set it up that poor people could glean from the edges of other people’s fields..they weren’t given anything, but if they worked for it, they could have sustenance.
 
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Lisa

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Addiction will supersede all other survival instincts. I guess we can add addiction to the list of things you know nothing about, but will speak of feverishly.
How do you quit addiction? Or is it just hopeless?
 

Lurker

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How do you quit addiction? Or is it just hopeless?
The addict would have to hit rock bottom and want help. Cutting off the soup kitchen will not make that happen though. But it's not hopeless. You could go out there and try to help the addict see how they are at rock bottom. Or at least just feed them so they die on your precious sidewalk.
 
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Homeless people shouldn’t live hand out to hand out..that’s very true. And I guess, if they got off the drugs, or stopped with the alcohol they probably would do much better in their recovery. There are addiction programs people can get into. The fact is that addicts want to be addicts and want to live that life of addiction and until they can admit to themselves that they have a problem then they aren’t going to be able to recover. I believe that is the truth, because the family friend I mentioned earlier, can’t admit he has a problem and he’s still got the problem.
How do they get clean? There are programs that people can get into... But addiction is something that actually requires long-term care. You can't get that long-term care when you're living on the streets. You're also forgetting that addicts aren't the only homeless people. There are runaways who are fleeing abusive home lives, military veterans, and even families.


Are you saying that soup kitchens and food pantry’s are the same? I think that food pantry’s are for people struggling to get by and if they need it than that is one thing. The other, is soup kitchens, feeding people who have no intention of supporting themselves and trying to work. I don’t see where feeding them for life is helping them but enabling them to continue in living the life they are living. If you don’t have any way to eat...maybe you might stop what you’re doing and go back to work..got to have some incentive for people to quit.
Soup kitchens and food pantries have the same idea; a way to feed the less fortunate. A lot of homeless people can't support themselves for reasons I've already mentioned (no physical address makes it hard to get aid, not having long-term aid makes it hard to turn around). And frankly, I don't care if I'm "enabling" people if I'm keeping human beings alive. All people, "addicts" or clean, have value and deserve to eat.

I don’t disdain the poor or the less fortunate but I have a hard time calling addicts poor and less fortunate. They are homeless by their own poor choices, their own selfishness.
Comments like this prove you don't understand homelessness.

I know why Christianity has a bad wrap..and you should too.
John‬ ‭15:18-19‬ ‭​

If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.


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Except being Christian isn't the issue people have with Christians. It's the self-righteousness and judgemental hypocrisy a lot of them display. They love to focus on the rules and the laws of the Old Testament or even the writings of Paul while ignoring what Christ Himself has said... Since it's a whole lot easier.

After all, if you can write of addicts as inferior, deserving of their situation... Well, you don't need to feel all that bad about the fact that you (and me and everyone on this forum since we all live in the same world) are supporting systems that make the world a much worse place for the unfortunate.


Let me ask you @Corvus Metus, what did you think about Ruth going gleaning? She was poor and God had set it up that poor people could glean from the edges of other people’s fields..they weren’t given anything, but if they worked for it, they could have sustenance.
And if you can't work, you deserve to die? Ruth does speak of working, but not everyone can work. And Christ who's teaching should be more important than anything else didn't put any caveats on feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and visiting the sick and imprisoned. He simply commanded us to do it. And His judgment on the those who scorn the least of His people... Well, I don't know what could be more explict.
 

Lisa

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The addict would have to hit rock bottom and want help
So they have to want help then?

Cutting off the soup kitchen will not make that happen though.
It won’t? Not getting food will help? Huh...



Or at least just feed them so they die on your precious sidewalk.
I don’t want them to die..and I don’t want them to live like they are, saying that they shouldn’t be able to camp on the sidewalk isn’t mean or a bad thing..they shouldn’t be able to camp on the sidewalk. They shouldn’t be able to use it as their living room or their toilet either. I don’t think that’s mean to not want that either as a business owner or as someone looking at their lives from the outside.
 

Lisa

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You're also forgetting that addicts aren't the only homeless people. There are runaways who are fleeing abusive home lives, military veterans, and even families.
I’m not but I think addicts are the majority.

How do they get clean?
The catholic charities have showers where the homeless are. And I think with addicts it’s hard because they want the drugs or that drink.

And frankly, I don't care if I'm "enabling" people if I'm keeping human beings alive. All people, "addicts" or clean, have value and deserve to eat.
Do you care that that is all your doing..you aren’t solving homelessness by doing that and homelessness creates more problems.

I didn’t say they didn’t have value...they are human and I hope they can come out of it too, I just don’t see feeding them as being the solution to homelessness. Do they deserve to eat if they won’t even help themselves? If they won’t do something for the food but show up?

Comments like this prove you don't understand homelessness.
Why? Wasn’t it a poor choice to start on drugs or drinking? Isn’t it selfishness to keep going although you were probably told by family and or friends that you weren’t a good person to be around while drinking or doing drugs? I worked with a girl who told me her parents were divorced because her mom wanted to drink more than she wanted to be a family...

Except being Christian isn't the issue people have with Christians. It's the self-righteousness and judgemental hypocrisy a lot of them display. They love to focus on the rules and the laws of the Old Testament or even the writings of Paul while ignoring what Christ Himself has said... Since it's a whole lot easier.
Being a Christian is the issue. We believe something other than what the world believes about problems, we believe people are sinners and that makes people mad. Then they don’t understand that even though you are saved, you aren’t perfect and still have sins that God is working on. They think then it’s hypocritical of you to even say anything to them even though you know that you still have God working on you but you’re still supposed to tell the unsaved the Good News.

To tell people about the Good News one must first let people know about sin so it would seem like they are being judgemental or self righteousness when they are actually just letting you know what constitutes sin, something they as a Christian also had to confess when they came to Christ.

Ya, being saved by grace through faith is easier than going to hell for your sins. Even Jesus said;
MATTHEW‬ ‭11:28-30‬ ‭
“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

After all, if you can write of addicts as inferior, deserving of their situation... Well, you don't need to feel all that bad about the fact that you (and me and everyone on this forum since we all live in the same world) are supporting systems that make the world a much worse place for the unfortunate.
If I murder someone would you say I deserve prison? Sometimes bad choices have negative consequences and I think they should so you would think twice about doing it. If being an addict had a very negative connotation maybe then people would think twice about it. But there are people even on the forum ok with marijuana. People are wanting it to be legal for people to do magic mushrooms...where does that end? Will we don’t out more and more now that all the illegal drugs should be legal because they ‘help’ something? There is an opioid epidemic where people are getting those kinds of drugs somehow. We seem to make it easier and easier on people to become addicts.

I never said that I feel bad about the system..again...I just don’t think it’s helping homelessness.

And if you can't work, you deserve to die? Ruth does speak of working, but not everyone can work. And Christ who's teaching should be more important than anything else didn't put any caveats on feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and visiting the sick and imprisoned. He simply commanded us to do it. And His judgment on the those who scorn the least of His people... Well, I don't know what could be more explict.
I didn’t say they deserve anything, except a free life to continue in their addictions and I think enabling people is sad and not helpful.

Ya, but He didn’t command to feed someone for life. Wasn’t it odd that the righteous had no idea that they had done all of that...
 
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justjess

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The National Coalition for the Homeless has found that 38% of homeless people are alcohol dependent, and 26% are dependent on other harmful chemicals.

That’s far from all homeless Lisa. That’s far from the majority since those things OVERLAP.

And addicts deserve help too. Shit... I’m such a devil worshipper apparantly but I’m a better Christian than many of you. Go figure.
 

Lisa

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I didn’t say they didn’t need help..but you aren’t helping someone who doesn’t want it and you surely aren’t helping them with being homeless by giving them food or some change. They are still homeless and that hasn’t changed their life.
 
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