Why do you subscribe to the particular religious faith that you do as opposed to all other world religions?

SkepticCat

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I believe in the Christian God Jesus Christ because I recognize the human need for salvation through repentance. My life experience has revealed to me human beings as [deeply] flawed: intellectually inadequate, morally compromisable, easily controllable by malignant forces and tendencies. Moreover, in pure logical terms, the need for forgiveness appears obvious to me: Regardless of how well one performs in the future this can never retroactively remedy mistakes (sins) committed in the past. If we consider the combined animal realm not morally accountable for its actions - a point of view I imagine most will undersign - then human beings are the sole force on earth not acting in perfect accordance with the physical, mental and moral laws of Creation. We human beings are the only direct cause of everything that goes wrong here. This, to me, accounts for the perhaps at first glance illogical Christian theological belief that God had to die as sacrifice to Himself, to satifsy His own wrath - again, logically: no other option for saving Man without totally and irrevocably destroying him could possibly exist (though it does leave open the question of why Lucifer, in his original exalted position, would choose to rebel in the first place).

The addition of certain personal experiences I've had that I can describe only as highly implausible outside of a religious [Christian] understanding coupled with the utter improbability of a religion such as the Christian one developing and gaining traction to survive thousands of years while managing to predict beforehand the entire chain of world history events that has played out culminating with revelation of a grand conspiracy to the formation of a negative world government we see in the pipelines now serves simply as further accreditation.

I find comparison to the other 'Abrahamic' religions the most pertinent. With Judaism, outside of the fact the man Jesus fulfills a long list of Old Testament prophecies (something most followers choose to ignore?), the very nature of the God described in those books is one of wrath, who endures no slights. With the understanding of human nature outlined above it appears most improbable a God interested in saving human beings rather than just destroying them all completely and being done with it would leave no other way for salvation than 100% perfect fulfillment of and obedience to the given divine Law. How many people can we suppose would be lost if the requirements for salvation were indeed to flawlessly keep the Law during an entire lifetime?

With Islam, outside of tenets I (admittedly - subjectively) regard as utterly reprehensible (such as Al-Baqarah 2:191-193 - https://quran.com/2/191-193), more importantly it is also obvious to me that these teachings of the Quran are in direct contravention of what both the Old and New Testaments teach. I must therefore conclude that Mohammad would have me believe the Omnipotent Supreme Being and Ruler of the entire Universe would choose as his servants for the most important mission that one can imagine: creating, presenting and preserving the Holy Writings that hold the key to knowing God and to the salvation of all Mankind men that were so utterly incompetent in understanding what God wanted that they first wrote down the Old Testament (Torah) Law, then rejected that and instead wrote down the New Testament (Jesus) Law, then rejected that also and finally received the Quran through Mohammed (which is somehow flawless, this time around, finally!). Does this seem a likely course of events that a Holy Creator would conceive of? Nevermind how Islam is insistent upon no crucifixion of Messiah, which means Islam has no object for God to pour out his wrath on, that wrath therefore still resting on Man. Muslims must therefore logically believe the created being, Man, not only has to be able to uphold that divine wrath from God, but must also believe that Man is saved through works, not faith by itself. Logically, then, according to this doctrine, if a man is not brave, fast, strong or kind enough, he will go to Hell! This sound eerily familiar to Freemasonry which also rejects the need for a substitutory object of divine wrath (Jesus) and teaches salvation by own works (a teaching Bible Scripture adamantly condemns, YHVH destroys the sinful works of Man!), and is nothing like the characteristics of Jesus whom Muslims still (?!?!) regard as a prophet and the one who will return to face the anti-christ rather than the 'perfect Muslim' Mohammad (?!?!).

The pictures and videos below say it all, really:









 

Scars512

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May 21, 2019
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Actually there is much more in common between Christianity and Islam than there is between Christianity and Judaism. Islam at least accepts that Jesus was a prophet of God (though they reject his divinity -- because they reject the concept of the trinity thus the "there is only one God" position of their faith). Judaism outright rejects Jesus as a fake messiah. Have you ever read the Talmud? According that that "holy" book, Jesus was not conceived by a miracle but by his mother playing the harlot with a roman soldier. And he is now, according to the Talmud, burning in hell in a vat of excrement. At least in Islam Jesus gets some measure of respect. Not to mention that the "technical language, symbolism, and rites of freemasonry are full of Jewish ideas and of terms like 'Urim and Thummim,' 'Acharon Schilton,' 'Rehum,' 'Sephirot,' 'Jachin,' 'Ish Chotzeb'" -- at least according to the Jewish Encylopedia. To be fair, they say that these terms may have been appropriated by non-Jews. But, these terms didn't come from the Quran, so there is more of a link between Freemasonry and Judaism than Freemasonry and Islam. Just saying.

By your own logic, how can Christians think that the Old Testament got it so wrong that Jesus had to come down to earth to give us new rules to follow? The OT said "an eye for an eye", but Jesus said, "turn the other cheek". The OT commanded that adulterers be stoned to death and Jesus said, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Judaism says that the Jews were a chosen people and Yahweh was the god of their people -- not the gentiles. Jesus opened the doors to heaven for ALL -- gentile and Jew alike. Did God get it wrong and Jesus had to come back to fix it for him? And why exactly would God need Jesus to "pour his wrath" upon? Couldn't God just forgive us without requiring an actual blood sacrifice? Maybe Jesus didn't die because God required that, but rather he gave up his life as an example that giving up your earthly life is preferable to choosing wrong (like denying his Father in exchange for a stay of execution) and losing one's soul and eternal life. I know the OT is big on blood sacrifices, but the NT doesn't ask us to do that. Did God change his mind or did the OT get it wrong? If Christians are able to accept the changes to the law in the NT, why is it hard to imagine that Muslims are able to accept changes in the Quran?

At first, I thought you were actually asking why people believe what they do --but instead it seems like you just wanted an opportunity to rail against a religion instead and whatever that last part was -- Torah Christianity(?). Not sure what you hope to accomplish with this.

Personally, I am a Christian, but I reject most of the OT (some portions -- like Genesis, I accept). Yes, I know that is considered blasphemous. My reasoning is that Jesus contradicted the OT numerous times. Much of those OT laws are the teachings of the Pharisees. Jesus said that they were "teaching for doctrines the commandments of men". He also called them a synagogue of Satan. So, I prefer to follow the words in red. Jesus tells us all we need to know. I don't have to refrain from eating pork (though I do because I'm a vegetarian), or refrain from wearing mixed fibers, or set myself apart when I have a menstrual cycle. Those are commandments of men. I only need to live (or at least try my best to live -- I am not perfect, after all, and fall short every day) the way Jesus said I should live. Everything else seems like pomp and circumstance and getting lost in a maze of biblical legalese rather than living the spirit of the law. But that is just my take on it. I may be wrong, but I can't blindly follow anyone else. I have to use my brain and make decisions based upon what my own moral compass tells me is the right path. It is the best I can do. If I gave lip service to the "orthodox" view, it would be no better because God can read my heart and know whether I truly believe or not. So, it would do me no good to simply parrot something I don't believe. I hope God is merciful -- just as Jesus said he is -- and will judge me by my heart with lenience for my human brain which cannot comprehend everything. If he is a jealous, vengeful God like it says in the OT, I pretty much don't have a chance.
 

Etagloc

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Joined
Mar 26, 2017
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5,291
Actually there is much more in common between Christianity and Islam than there is between Christianity and Judaism. Islam at least accepts that Jesus was a prophet of God (though they reject his divinity -- because they reject the concept of the trinity thus the "there is only one God" position of their faith). Judaism outright rejects Jesus as a fake messiah. Have you ever read the Talmud? According that that "holy" book, Jesus was not conceived by a miracle but by his mother playing the harlot with a roman soldier. And he is now, according to the Talmud, burning in hell in a vat of excrement. At least in Islam Jesus gets some measure of respect. Not to mention that the "technical language, symbolism, and rites of freemasonry are full of Jewish ideas and of terms like 'Urim and Thummim,' 'Acharon Schilton,' 'Rehum,' 'Sephirot,' 'Jachin,' 'Ish Chotzeb'" -- at least according to the Jewish Encylopedia. To be fair, they say that these terms may have been appropriated by non-Jews. But, these terms didn't come from the Quran, so there is more of a link between Freemasonry and Judaism than Freemasonry and Islam. Just saying.

By your own logic, how can Christians think that the Old Testament got it so wrong that Jesus had to come down to earth to give us new rules to follow? The OT said "an eye for an eye", but Jesus said, "turn the other cheek". The OT commanded that adulterers be stoned to death and Jesus said, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Judaism says that the Jews were a chosen people and Yahweh was the god of their people -- not the gentiles. Jesus opened the doors to heaven for ALL -- gentile and Jew alike. Did God get it wrong and Jesus had to come back to fix it for him? And why exactly would God need Jesus to "pour his wrath" upon? Couldn't God just forgive us without requiring an actual blood sacrifice? Maybe Jesus didn't die because God required that, but rather he gave up his life as an example that giving up your earthly life is preferable to choosing wrong (like denying his Father in exchange for a stay of execution) and losing one's soul and eternal life. I know the OT is big on blood sacrifices, but the NT doesn't ask us to do that. Did God change his mind or did the OT get it wrong? If Christians are able to accept the changes to the law in the NT, why is it hard to imagine that Muslims are able to accept changes in the Quran?

At first, I thought you were actually asking why people believe what they do --but instead it seems like you just wanted an opportunity to rail against a religion instead and whatever that last part was -- Torah Christianity(?). Not sure what you hope to accomplish with this.

Personally, I am a Christian, but I reject most of the OT (some portions -- like Genesis, I accept). Yes, I know that is considered blasphemous. My reasoning is that Jesus contradicted the OT numerous times. Much of those OT laws are the teachings of the Pharisees. Jesus said that they were "teaching for doctrines the commandments of men". He also called them a synagogue of Satan. So, I prefer to follow the words in red. Jesus tells us all we need to know. I don't have to refrain from eating pork (though I do because I'm a vegetarian), or refrain from wearing mixed fibers, or set myself apart when I have a menstrual cycle. Those are commandments of men. I only need to live (or at least try my best to live -- I am not perfect, after all, and fall short every day) the way Jesus said I should live. Everything else seems like pomp and circumstance and getting lost in a maze of biblical legalese rather than living the spirit of the law. But that is just my take on it. I may be wrong, but I can't blindly follow anyone else. I have to use my brain and make decisions based upon what my own moral compass tells me is the right path. It is the best I can do. If I gave lip service to the "orthodox" view, it would be no better because God can read my heart and know whether I truly believe or not. So, it would do me no good to simply parrot something I don't believe. I hope God is merciful -- just as Jesus said he is -- and will judge me by my heart with lenience for my human brain which cannot comprehend everything. If he is a jealous, vengeful God like it says in the OT, I pretty much don't have a chance.
I would say Islam is actually more similar to Judaism than Christianity. I think Islam and Judaism are more similar whereas Christianity is sort of..... "weird".... in a sense. I mean it's sort of a third category if we compare the three major Abrahamic religions. Islam and Judaism actually have a lot more similarities and I think are more similar than Islam and Christianity.
 

Etagloc

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Joined
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I believe in the Christian God Jesus Christ because I recognize the human need for salvation through repentance. My life experience has revealed to me human beings as [deeply] flawed: intellectually inadequate, morally compromisable, easily controllable by malignant forces and tendencies. Moreover, in pure logical terms, the need for forgiveness appears obvious to me: Regardless of how well one performs in the future this can never retroactively remedy mistakes (sins) committed in the past. If we consider the combined animal realm not morally accountable for its actions - a point of view I imagine most will undersign - then human beings are the sole force on earth not acting in perfect accordance with the physical, mental and moral laws of Creation. We human beings are the only direct cause of everything that goes wrong here. This, to me, accounts for the perhaps at first glance illogical Christian theological belief that God had to die as sacrifice to Himself, to satifsy His own wrath - again, logically: no other option for saving Man without totally and irrevocably destroying him could possibly exist (though it does leave open the question of why Lucifer, in his original exalted position, would choose to rebel in the first place).

The addition of certain personal experiences I've had that I can describe only as highly implausible outside of a religious [Christian] understanding coupled with the utter improbability of a religion such as the Christian one developing and gaining traction to survive thousands of years while managing to predict beforehand the entire chain of world history events that has played out culminating with revelation of a grand conspiracy to the formation of a negative world government we see in the pipelines now serves simply as further accreditation.

I find comparison to the other 'Abrahamic' religions the most pertinent. With Judaism, outside of the fact the man Jesus fulfills a long list of Old Testament prophecies (something most followers choose to ignore?), the very nature of the God described in those books is one of wrath, who endures no slights. With the understanding of human nature outlined above it appears most improbable a God interested in saving human beings rather than just destroying them all completely and being done with it would leave no other way for salvation than 100% perfect fulfillment of and obedience to the given divine Law. How many people can we suppose would be lost if the requirements for salvation were indeed to flawlessly keep the Law during an entire lifetime?

With Islam, outside of tenets I (admittedly - subjectively) regard as utterly reprehensible (such as Al-Baqarah 2:191-193 - https://quran.com/2/191-193), more importantly it is also obvious to me that these teachings of the Quran are in direct contravention of what both the Old and New Testaments teach. I must therefore conclude that Mohammad would have me believe the Omnipotent Supreme Being and Ruler of the entire Universe would choose as his servants for the most important mission that one can imagine: creating, presenting and preserving the Holy Writings that hold the key to knowing God and to the salvation of all Mankind men that were so utterly incompetent in understanding what God wanted that they first wrote down the Old Testament (Torah) Law, then rejected that and instead wrote down the New Testament (Jesus) Law, then rejected that also and finally received the Quran through Mohammed (which is somehow flawless, this time around, finally!). Does this seem a likely course of events that a Holy Creator would conceive of? Nevermind how Islam is insistent upon no crucifixion of Messiah, which means Islam has no object for God to pour out his wrath on, that wrath therefore still resting on Man. Muslims must therefore logically believe the created being, Man, not only has to be able to uphold that divine wrath from God, but must also believe that Man is saved through works, not faith by itself. Logically, then, according to this doctrine, if a man is not brave, fast, strong or kind enough, he will go to Hell! This sound eerily familiar to Freemasonry which also rejects the need for a substitutory object of divine wrath (Jesus) and teaches salvation by own works (a teaching Bible Scripture adamantly condemns, YHVH destroys the sinful works of Man!), and is nothing like the characteristics of Jesus whom Muslims still (?!?!) regard as a prophet and the one who will return to face the anti-christ rather than the 'perfect Muslim' Mohammad (?!?!).

The pictures and videos below say it all, really:









You're free to your views but anyone with a most rudimentary understanding of the Quran should be able to see that the verse from Surah Al-Baqarah is taken from out of context.

Continually, Christians attempt to attack the Quran but haven't really learned much about it.

A lot of such discourse is founded and relies upon lack of knowledge regarding the Quran. That particular verse is obviously referring to a particular historical context.
 

elsbet

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I hope God is merciful -- just as Jesus said he is -- and will judge me by my heart with lenience for my human brain which cannot comprehend everything. If he is a jealous, vengeful God like it says in the OT, I pretty much don't have a chance.
Though God knows the heart, none of us will be judged it.
By your own logic, how can Christians think that the Old Testament got it so wrong that Jesus had to come down to earth to give us new rules to follow?​

We don't. Even nominal Christians typically understand this stuff you're on about. Were you thinking of converting from Islam?
 
Last edited:

Thunderian

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Continually, Christians attempt to attack the Quran but haven't really learned much about it.
If Muslims see questions about the Quran as attacks, it's no wonder Christians don't know much about it.

Over the years on VC boards, I've had the door slammed in my face by Muslims more times than I can count, when I've asked about their beliefs or the Quran. The reason given is always that I'm not asking seriously. Well, who cares what my intentions are? What true believer wouldn't want to talk about their faith and the words of God, no matter who's asking the question?

No matter how stupid or offensive the accusations and questions against Christianity are from unbelievers on this board, you will always find a Christian (usually @Red Sky at Morning lol) who is willing to address them and do their best to give Christian reason for the hope within us. Why doesn't Islam do that? I think it's because there's no hope in Islam. Our joy as Christians is predicated on the idea that God loves us and that one day we will walk with him forever. In Islam, the believer can only hope to be good enough.
 

Allegra

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Mar 11, 2019
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i've been talking to a lot of muslims (well im from a muslim country after all), a lot of them didn't even understand their own quran. They are able to recite but they don't really understand and most of their belief and knowledge are coming from their imams.

There is one occasion, I saw a muslim (who happened to be from the same country as me) attacking Christians out of no where, like no one even bashing anything, he just came and be like "Jesus is not God! bible is corrupted!"

So I replied to him, after a few discussions, I talked to him about the eaten scripture in Hadith, a claim by Muhammad's wife, Aisha, he was surprised about it, he was like "its not true!! it's a lie! there is nothing like that!", but then I linked him the verse and he didnt answer me. He kept dodging my questions about other quran verses and instead he kept talking about how corrupted bible is and even complained about Jesus' name! LOL.

I was like, look I can tell you all about Bible all you want but answer my questions first. He couldn't lol. He ended up never replying me anymore.

I noticed one thing about this person, he seems to be quite understand about greek words and christian terms, but he doesn't seem to be that knowledgeable about his own quran. Interesting. If he talked to Christian who doesn't understand Islam and have deeper knowledge about Bible, he could destroy them.

I love talking with Muslims, but a lot of times, every time we discuss about quran, their words become harsh and soon it becomes personal attacks and insults. Like, can't we sit and talk like a civilized person?

Anyhow, I don't wanna debate about this. I'm just sharing my story about my quite recent encounter with a muslim.
 

Allegra

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I believe in Jesus because He is my saviour and because I have relationship with Him and His Father and The Holy Spirit.

Every time there is something in my mind, whenever I open bible or reading a devotional, there are always something and verses about something that is in my mind, and it brings me so much comfort.

Just a testimony from me.
I remember debating about the deity of Christ or that Jesus is God. You know some Christian don't believe it. I ended up leaving the debate, if they don't want to believe it is not my problem anymore I already told them what I had to say. But that upset feeling because why Christians don't believe Jesus is GOD. The debates stirred up my heart even though I've been dealing the same situation before.

So I prayed that night after that, and told Him, Jesus, about my feelings about this. After the prayer my anger was gone, like really gone. No stuffy feeling anymore. Then I proceeded to read my Spurgeon's devotional Morning & Night 365 days (I highly recommend this) like I always do every night and in that devotional that day, it was talking about this. (I took screenshot lol so I could read again as a reminder!)

25a6a953-4c9f-4e69-a7cb-c60666(1).jpg

I always feel that God is always watching over me, and I'm so happy, nothing is more worthy than Him. Glad that I'm blessed.
 

Vytas

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At first, I thought you were actually asking why people believe what they do --but instead it seems like you just wanted an opportunity to rail against a religion instead and whatever that last part was -- Torah Christianity(?). Not sure what you hope to accomplish with this.
He simply answered to his own question. Making himself first participant. I prefer that over empty thread.
 
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