BTS discussion thread

NotDelulu

Established
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
255
theres this person in this thread who has a theory that nj is the leader of the cult the one who controls everyone, sg is the magician, the one who is in charge of the rituals and stuff, and th is the lurer, the one who invites people to join his cult, just like what b0gum does.

although i dont believe that they have those "leader" or "shadow leader" roles, theyre all just silly puppets, traumatized and neglected since childhood and is doing what they are forced to, but i do think all of them is somewhat happy to be in this position because their true selves are no longer there, their alters have taken a good control over them.
I tend to agree with this more than the other theories. I do think rm is like a supervisor and a snitch to managment. maybe he gets additional perks for that such as more credits on the songs (and therefore more money)
 

Scars512

Established
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
330
Other people write that people dying on a boat is sacrifice for a kpop group. As if every death/accident is a sacrifice. Assuming it is, why for a shitty pop act? Aren’t there any more important things in the world? The world doesn’t revolve around BTS, less than 0,01% of the world population know them, if even that. No offense,I mean sometimes certain ridiculous theories are the reason people don’t take anything written in this thread seriously.
I have no idea if the ferry thing was a sacrifice or not, but considering that BTS brings in billions to the SK economy, I don't think that they are completely unimportant. Unimportant to most of the world, certainly, but not SK. So, would psychopaths at the top sacrifice a boat full of people for billions of dollars and bringing attention to SK? Absolutely.

Sometimes I do think that the idea of sacrifices and symbolism and all that seems ridiculous. But, I remind myself that I don't have to believe that any of these things actually work (rituals) or have power (symbols) to understand their importance to those using them. It is clear that those in power believe they need to do this. Their success most likely comes from their lack of conscience, not because they flash a one-eye sign or sacrifice a loved one. But they are obviously superstitious enough to keep doing it because they think it is working. I mean, Satan is not as powerful as God. There is only so much he can do. I suspect that these rituals and things serve to bolster the illusion of Satanic power. It is quite easy to be rich and successful if you have no morals and are willing to do literally anything to achieve it. It is very hard to get rich if you have a conscience and do the right thing. Satan doesn't need actual power to make you rich. He just has to convince you to reject morality -- which is the real agenda of using entertainers like BTS. They are the "pied pipers" who are working to lure you away from the moral path. They aren't the only ones, obviously, but they are there to appeal to a certain demographic. Yes, a wheel in the cog ... but even the smallest wheels are needed for the entire machinery to work.
 

Truthteller

Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
793
I have no idea if the ferry thing was a sacrifice or not, but considering that BTS brings in billions to the SK economy, I don't think that they are completely unimportant. Unimportant to most of the world, certainly, but not SK. So, would psychopaths at the top sacrifice a boat full of people for billions of dollars and bringing attention to SK? Absolutely.

Sometimes I do think that the idea of sacrifices and symbolism and all that seems ridiculous. But, I remind myself that I don't have to believe that any of these things actually work (rituals) or have power (symbols) to understand their importance to those using them. It is clear that those in power believe they need to do this. Their success most likely comes from their lack of conscience, not because they flash a one-eye sign or sacrifice a loved one. But they are obviously superstitious enough to keep doing it because they think it is working. I mean, Satan is not as powerful as God. There is only so much he can do. I suspect that these rituals and things serve to bolster the illusion of Satanic power. It is quite easy to be rich and successful if you have no morals and are willing to do literally anything to achieve it. It is very hard to get rich if you have a conscience and do the right thing. Satan doesn't need actual power to make you rich. He just has to convince you to reject morality -- which is the real agenda of using entertainers like BTS. They are the "pied pipers" who are working to lure you away from the moral path. They aren't the only ones, obviously, but they are there to appeal to a certain demographic. Yes, a wheel in the cog ... but even the smallest wheels are needed for the entire machinery to work.
Yes I am sorry but who says BTS bring billions to the economy? Who has verified those numbers? Their sponsors? SK entertainment industry as a whole is worth a couple billion, but that is the entire industry made up of past and present companies and groups. It includes the music, movie, tv, modeling, dance etc industries. Bighit entire revenue was under 200 million USD and their net profit was under 60 USD, yet they bring billions to SK??? It is as believable as Kylie Jenner being the youngest self made billionaire in the world (sarcasm).
 

Scars512

Established
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
330
Yes I am sorry but who says BTS bring billions to the economy? Who has verified those numbers? Their sponsors? SK entertainment industry as a whole is worth a couple billion, but that is the entire industry made up of past and present companies and groups. It includes the music, movie, tv, modeling, dance etc industries. Bighit entire revenue was under 200 million USD and their net profit was under 60 USD, yet they bring billions to SK??? It is as believable as Kylie Jenner being the youngest self made billionaire in the world (sarcasm).
I have no idea if those numbers are real or propaganda, but that is what is being claimed.

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/2178540/bts-billions-k-pop-superstars-worth-more-us36-billion-year-south

It isn't claimed that they make that much money, but rather it is through merchandise exports (they do ads and endorsements for many products) and also an increase in tourism (1 in 13 visitors to Korea, it is claimed, visit because of BTS).

Even if they are made up statistics, they certainly WANT us to believe it is true. That still shows that they consider BTS to be important -- certainly more important than other kpop groups -- many of which seem to be more popular in SK than BTS. Maybe they just chose to push BTS because the "underdog" story resonates more in America. Or maybe they are pushing them as a reward for Bighit's CEO making deals behind the scene. I don't know -- I can only speculate. But, they are important enough to be mounting a very big campaign to try make them into the next "Beatles". It is a co-ordinated effort on the part of SK and the western media. I think you have to be a little suspicious when you see something like that going on. And just like the Kylie Jenner thing, you have to wonder why they are pushing that narrative if it isn't true.

And their impact may not be designed to affect the US. My theory is that they are designed to break down the conservative society of Korea. Their popularity in the West seems a little manufactured. They are popular to a degree, but they aren't sweeping the US. But, it may be that they are building up this rep so that they will have a bigger influence in Korea. The US doesn't need any help accepting transgender/gender fluidity concepts or LGBQT rights. But Korea does. And I think that is really what is at the heart of BTS's meteoric rise. Which, if it was just about tolerance, I wouldn't care. As we see in the US, though, they don't want tolerance -- they want special treatment and they also want to push this idea that it is a lifestyle choice. But, again, just a theory. I have no connections or inside information -- so I could be completely wrong.
 

cadiz

Star
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
1,989
Even if they are made up statistics, they certainly WANT us to believe it is true. That still shows that they consider BTS to be important -- certainly more important than other kpop groups -- many of which seem to be more popular in SK than BTS. Maybe they just chose to push BTS because the "underdog" story resonates more in America. Or maybe they are pushing them as a reward for Bighit's CEO making deals behind the scene. I don't know -- I can only speculate. But, they are important enough to be mounting a very big campaign to try make them into the next "Beatles". It is a co-ordinated effort on the part of SK and the western media. I think you have to be a little suspicious when you see something like that going on. And just like the Kylie Jenner thing, you have to wonder why they are pushing that narrative if it isn't true..
you are correct. BTS are protected by the korean goverment
they were included in the official clip for the national anthem and the president loves them

the media dont report anything negative about them and overhypes their popularity because the public are supposed to see them as the "perfect group"

they are only a kpop group? YES....but they are used to braiwash teens (the next generation) so they are important to the "poweful crowd" just like Redmon the trans kid is important and promoted too....all puppets used for a certain period of time and then descarted when they get too old

is naive to believe all sacrifices are for BTS? obviously yes..... the occult does sacrifices in typical dates they consider ritualistic and BTS are not the center of the world
But I also think is naive to believe this V guy has so many deaths around him for no reason.....we all have different opinions about that one
 

wow

Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Messages
781
bt$ made a speech at the UN, even only one of them knows how to speak english and how to understand them, they still get invited, thats how important they are, korean president and first lady admires them, now theyre saying bts is the next beatles which is yall know beatles is the legend of all the legends, as crazy as it sounds, bt$ and bigshit is fuxking powerful, now im not saying all deaths are because of them, but yall, about that thing with pluto and dionysus sculpture found after they released something about it, its not just a coincidence, nothing is a coicidence here, and im also not saying the sew0l tragedy is because of them, but i remember that JY!P got involved and you guys know how b@ng said that he got all the support and some money from JY!P before bt$ is famous, and not to mention the date of the incident and bts' debut is terrifyingly coincidential. and my boi JN and TH, now i dont even know what is going on with them and the company but you guys know how they have deaths surrounding them right? also not to mention TH's dog with j0nghyun, bigshit has insiders, they have strong people, and they couldve just swooped in if someone is planning a sacrifice and be like "oh hey guys, share it with some of us, we will give you bt$ service ;^) " if that makes sense. now pls tell me im delulu and sorry if i sound delulu, its jusf a very rough theory and thought i have :)
 
Last edited:

wow

Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Messages
781
I tend to agree with this more than the other theories. I do think rm is like a supervisor and a snitch to managment. maybe he gets additional perks for that such as more credits on the songs (and therefore more money)
exactly, and not to mention that they actually have ghostwriters, they dont write their songs anymore, they just wanted to be like the next bigb@ng that time and have that "unique" aspect of "we write our own songs, our company doesnt do sh*t" vibe going on and now its dead cause i dont buy that bs anymore after knowing how everything are all lies.
 

Truthteller

Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
793
you are correct. BTS are protected by the korean goverment
they were included in the official clip for the national anthem and the president loves them

the media dont report anything negative about them and overhypes their popularity because the public are supposed to see them as the "perfect group"

they are only a kpop group? YES....but they are used to braiwash teens (the next generation) so they are important to the "poweful crowd" just like Redmon the trans kid is important and promoted too....all puppets used for a certain period of time and then descarted when they get too old

is naive to believe all sacrifices are for BTS? obviously yes..... the occult does sacrifices in typical dates they consider ritualistic and BTS are not the center of the world
But I also think is naive to believe this V guy has so many deaths around him for no reason.....we all have different opinions about that one
I agree that they are protected by the government at this point. Remeber that BTs didn’t need exclusive govenrment support from the beginning. I have previosuly wirtten about how their CEO has a cousin who is one of the richest men in SK,a gaming billionaire and a hge investor in Bigshit. Look up Netmarble. The whole started at the bottom is greatly over exagerted. However the great supprt and praise came only after they made it to the Billbaords and started to get promoted by the US music industry. SK as a country really looks up to the US both culturally and politically, much more so than Japan and China. I say this because to me their entertainment seems much more americanized than the latter and also seeing interviews of their general public it becomes evident that many view the US as the ultimate power in many fields. So seeing a korean group get promoted by the American music industry and making it in the west is a pretty big deal for them. They think of it as global soft power. This is open for discussion, but I will not get into it.

It is also not coicindental that they started winning all their major awards and getting invited to the Billboards soon after releasing BST their most occultic and homoerotic video to date. Before that they were a B list group, but after it they became A list and the US music excecutives opened them with open arms, which obviously had been a goal and dream of the company all along. Soon after they went from big to legend status in their country with the media and even politicians singing their praise.

People think that BTS going to the UN is not something that celebrities can do, but it is not true, quite a few have done it. For e.g Lilly Singh (superwoman) who is not even a celebrtity, but a youtuber was there and made a speech during the same session. It was for UNICEF, not the main meeting anyways. The problem with BTS going to the UN however was the fact that their speech was absolutely terrible with no substance (expect pushing their gender queer agenda) and most of them seemed completely clueless as to why they were there. At least when others get invited they are actively involved in the cause, not just a face for a compaign and have something substantial to say. A lot of media play is involved with them, the Hyundai report on their contribution to the economy is one great example and Bigshit will likely use it to delay military service or get special advantages. Recently a lot of SK people have been disliking BS articles related to them on the internet because they are fed up.

About V, he has only lost two grandparents which is a pretty common.That friend who committed suicide was just an acquaintance, not a close friend. He happened to know the guy, but so did tons of other people. Suicide attempts in SK entertainment seem to be a all too common occurence. I just don’t believe in sacrifices or magic rituals I am sorry. Even if innocent people are murdered for the sake of evil, this is not the way they go about it. Also they are not ”sacrifices,”, their deaths serve other purposes, e.g. political motives etc.
 

cadiz

Star
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
1,989
I just don’t believe in sacrifices or magic rituals I am sorry. Even if innocent people are murdered for the sake of evil, this is not the way they go about it. Also they are not ”sacrifices,”, their deaths serve other purposes, e.g. political motives etc.
thats fine like I said we all have different opinions
I do believe in blood sacrifices and rituals in general..... so we are never going to agree on that one
 

rottielover

Established
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
123
I just don’t believe in sacrifices or magic rituals I am sorry. Even if innocent people are murdered for the sake of evil, this is not the way they go about it. Also they are not ”sacrifices,”, their deaths serve other purposes, e.g. political motives etc.
thats fine like I said we all have different opinions
I do believe in blood sacrifices and rituals in general..... so we are never going to agree on that one
speaking of blood sacrifices.. i know religion is a sensitive topic and i'm not going to force anyone on what to believe here.. but just something to ponder on from what ive known and studied...when we look at the story of Christianity & Jesus, the action of blood sacrifice is a huge deal in both the old and new testament, if you believe in the bible, it signifies a covenant ,which is a promise or pact, and an atonement, meaning something you do for another's ones wrongdoing. there are many evidences in the old testament that animals were used be sacrificed to cover up the sins of the people, when it came to the new testament, Christ was that blood sacrifice once and for all when He died for the salvation of the lost as Christians believe. God to be known as just meant there was to be payment for a wrongdoing, death was the price. just as there is a price to pay for sins. if we associate the evilness of this world to the devil, we all know that whatever God does, the enemy likes to twist it and do a counterfeit/opposite of what was meant for good originally to the bad. he's always done it from the beginning of time (garden of eden). Deception. so this idea of blood sacrifices today even though its hard and crazy to believe that it's may still be happening and that the enemy still uses this horrible ritual nowadays for his purposes, makes you wonder and think it could be so sad but a possibility. i hate to imagine it too coz its just so wrong and inhumane but with everything going on in this world and especially the things we don't see even with our physical eyes, i wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be true. but just sharing this thought and respecting everyone's opinion regardless. the spiritual battle is real as much as the physical battle.
 
Last edited:

Deadlylady

Established
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
399
Posing with a mickey mouse doll in a Cinderella carriage is so lit :)
http://instagr.am/p/ByIrT14n0q1/
I cannot see mickey mouse merch without associating it to mkultra anymore tsk tsk
But a lot of people love disn3y merch and most people have grown watching their classic movies. Only now we know what was hidden inside that brand. And also collecting figurines is that the new trend? It gives idols vibes. I wouldn't recommand it to anybody.

1559332811848.png

1559331216983.png1559332727200.png
 

Deadlylady

Established
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
399
speaking of blood sacrifices.. i know religion is a sensitive topic and i'm not going to force anyone on what to believe here.. but just something to ponder on from what ive known and studied...when we look at the story of Christianity & Jesus, the action of blood sacrifice is a huge deal in both the old and new testament, if you believe in the bible, it signifies a covenant ,which is a promise or pact, and an atonement, meaning something you do for another's ones wrongdoing. there are many evidences in the old testament that animals were used be sacrificed to cover up the sins of the people, when it came to the new testament, Christ was that blood sacrifice once and for all when He died for the salvation of the lost as Christians believe. God to be known as just meant there was to be payment for a wrongdoing, death was the price. just as there is a price to pay for sins. if we associate the evilness of this world to the devil, we all know that whatever God does, the enemy likes to twist it and do a counterfeit/opposite of what was meant for good originally to the bad. he's always done it from the beginning of time (garden of eden). Deception. so this idea of blood sacrifices today even though its hard and crazy to believe that it's may still be happening and that the enemy still uses this horrible ritual nowadays for his purposes, makes you wonder and think it could be so sad but a possibility. i hate to imagine it too coz its just so wrong and inhumane but with everything going on in this world and especially the things we don't see even with our physical eyes, i wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be true. but just sharing this thought and respecting everyone's opinion regardless. the spiritual battle is real as much as the physical battle.
In Islam every animal killed for food is sacrified in the name of god/Allah. And it's forbidden for us to eat an animal meat that was killed in the name of somebody else.
So just imagine if all your life the meat you bought at the store was infact killed in the name of satan. Of course this is a wild guess. And nobody really knows what is going in the slaughterhouse. But could it be? Who knows. Also the trend nowdays is impossible burgers and meat made of veggies? They want everybody to go vegan because its more humane and better for the world. This also could have an ulterior motive.
 

Truthteller

Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
793
speaking of blood sacrifices.. i know religion is a sensitive topic and i'm not going to force anyone on what to believe here.. but just something to ponder on from what ive known and studied...when we look at the story of Christianity & Jesus, the action of blood sacrifice is a huge deal in both the old and new testament, if you believe in the bible, it signifies a covenant ,which is a promise or pact, and an atonement, meaning something you do for another's ones wrongdoing. there are many evidences in the old testament that animals were used be sacrificed to cover up the sins of the people, when it came to the new testament, Christ was that blood sacrifice once and for all when He died for the salvation of the lost as Christians believe. God to be known as just meant there was to be payment for a wrongdoing, death was the price. just as there is a price to pay for sins. if we associate the evilness of this world to the devil, we all know that whatever God does, the enemy likes to twist it and do a counterfeit/opposite of what was meant for good originally to the bad. he's always done it from the beginning of time (garden of eden). Deception. so this idea of blood sacrifices today even though its hard and crazy to believe that it's may still be happening and that the enemy still uses this horrible ritual nowadays for his purposes, makes you wonder and think it could be so sad but a possibility. i hate to imagine it too coz its just so wrong and inhumane but with everything going on in this world and especially the things we don't see even with our physical eyes, i wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be true. but just sharing this thought and respecting everyone's opinion regardless. the spiritual battle is real as much as the physical battle.
Blood sacrifices go back to ancient times and I there are probably people out there doing them with humans, e.g certain groups of satanists. What I meant to say is that I don’t believe these rituals give anyone special powers, they don’t account for anyone’s failure or success. It is sacreligious to practice or believe that killing or magic rituals will grant you special powers. Rather they are just a manifestation of corruption and evil and false beliefs. Also if these kind of murders are done, they will be ritualisitic and blood has to be spilled as in slaughtering a sheep, it won’t just be a suicide or random accident. Considering someone’s grandparents dying in a hospital of disease to be a sacrifice is ridiculous.
Furthermore, these heinous murders are usually done on the most innocent and vulnerable souls, such as small
missing children who are bought and sold as slaves. Unfortunately these things do exist and there is plenty of proof. Every year thousands of children are bought and sold, some into prostitution, some into slavery and many are killed. Without a single trace. A prolific figure dying of suicide is not a sacrifice. Directly relating someone’s suicide to another’s success is not an idea I will ever buy, but each to their own. I just think there are more plausible explanations for both cases, that make much more sense and sound less crazy.
 
Last edited:

Deadlylady

Established
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
399
Blood sacrifices go back to ancient times and I there are probably people out there doing them with humans, e.g certain groups of satanists. What I meant to say is that I don’t believe these rituals give anyone special powers, they don’t account for anyone’s failure or success. It is sacreligious to practice or believe that killing or magic rituals will grant you special powers. Rather they are just a manifestation of corruption and evil and false beliefs. Also if these kind of murders are done, they will be ritualisitic and blood has to be spilled as in slaughtering a sheep, it won’t just be a suicide or random accident. Considering someone’s grandparents dying in a hospital of disease to be a sacrifice is ridiculous.
Furthermore, these heinous murders are usually done on the most innocent and vulnerable souls, such as small
missing children who are bought and sold as slaves. Unfortunately these things do exist and there is plenty of proof. Every year thousands of children are bought and sold, some into prostitution, some into slavery and many are killed. Without a single trace. A prolific figure dying of suicide is not a sacrifice. Directly relating someone’s suicide to another’s success is not an idea I will ever buy, but each to their own. I just think there are more plausible explanations for both cases, that make much more sense and sound less crazy.
This is how "magic" is done. Because nothing is free. Even though when you accept doing magic you automaticlly sell your soul/ your hereafter. Because doing magic is forbiden. What magic is really is a person making a pact with a demon to do "whatever" they want. The demon wants sacrifices in their master name and also wants them to make people deviate from the right path. Otherwise why would he bother helping that person out. Magic lead many "artist" to be worldwide famous. I mean I heard from a lot of people in here that they keep seeing bt3 in their dreams and it has a drug like addiction. Nobody has this kind of affect on someone especially when they don't even speak and sing in your language.
This "magic" can make a husband and wife get a divorce, make someone fall in love with you, even kill a person, make some tricks magician do etc. Of course after doing human sacrifices they must be getting way more powerfull stuff, nobody knows what, but they must be getting something in return that they continue doing these things.They do all kind of inhumane and disgusting things.

1559390497554.png1559390517369.png
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Messages
1,398
Hi guys
I hope youre all doing good
So BTS are here in the UK right.....
I was a little shocked to see their appearance on BGT and the handsigns at the end of the performance were definetely sending some type of signal to British celebs
However what I came on here to discuss was the dysfunctional family V seems to have
So you know that V is quite family orientated right and he has two younger siblings however it was his grandparents who bought him up and he seems to have a lot of love for them, but his actual parents seem to be quite distant from the family picture
Why did hs Grandparents bring him up?
I do think Vs grandparents were farmers but his parents makes me less inclined to believe so, especiallys after his father passed him the watch right.
I think i have mentioned before that Stigma seems to be a cry of help but i think i might have a new interpretation of the song.
Maybe he has been tortured from a young age and has been bught up in occultism as many rituals have to take place so in Stigma maybe his song is of guilt that he cant help his siblings who may be receiving the same fate and that is why the song could be directed to them.
Also in Singularity he was surrounded by flowers which seem like a key ingredient in occultic rituals and could be aso seen asa a commemoration of the sacrifice the Kims made.
I think that both Jins and Taes family seemed to have a contract with Bang PD because why would Jins parents allow him to enter a poor company when they were worth so much
Allowing their sons into the company could be seen to benefit the family if they are satanists.
BTS are receiving worldwide fame and therefore they are diamonds in fullfilling the elites agendas and herefore this contract between the company and the familiy could benefit the family by securing or even increasing their reputation in the occult as hierarchy is so important to satansits
Sorry this was rushed, it was just something i thought and liked to share
 

wow

Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Messages
781
Hi guys
I hope youre all doing good
So BTS are here in the UK right.....
I was a little shocked to see their appearance on BGT and the handsigns at the end of the performance were definetely sending some type of signal to British celebs
However what I came on here to discuss was the dysfunctional family V seems to have
So you know that V is quite family orientated right and he has two younger siblings however it was his grandparents who bought him up and he seems to have a lot of love for them, but his actual parents seem to be quite distant from the family picture
Why did hs Grandparents bring him up?
I do think Vs grandparents were farmers but his parents makes me less inclined to believe so, especiallys after his father passed him the watch right.
I think i have mentioned before that Stigma seems to be a cry of help but i think i might have a new interpretation of the song.
Maybe he has been tortured from a young age and has been bught up in occultism as many rituals have to take place so in Stigma maybe his song is of guilt that he cant help his siblings who may be receiving the same fate and that is why the song could be directed to them.
Also in Singularity he was surrounded by flowers which seem like a key ingredient in occultic rituals and could be aso seen asa a commemoration of the sacrifice the Kims made.
I think that both Jins and Taes family seemed to have a contract with Bang PD because why would Jins parents allow him to enter a poor company when they were worth so much
Allowing their sons into the company could be seen to benefit the family if they are satanists.
BTS are receiving worldwide fame and therefore they are diamonds in fullfilling the elites agendas and herefore this contract between the company and the familiy could benefit the family by securing or even increasing their reputation in the occult as hierarchy is so important to satansits
Sorry this was rushed, it was just something i thought and liked to share
theres a person here who asked a shaman about bts, they said that 3 of them are magicians, 2 are born into it, and one of them are in debt with the company, and i believe its either th or jn, but now the more i dig into it, it could probably be th cause jin is already rich and th sacrifices more, but those are just my two cents.

i still think stigma is for his grandmother tho, it fits well with the lyrics more and it was released in the time his grandma died
 
Top