Revelation

Red Sky at Morning

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It would take you an hour to make your point?
Typing with one finger, an hour would be optimistic! Suffice it to say as an introduction that the meaning of the passage appears to be rooted in the wider message to the Hebrews, and the imagery and understanding is wrapped up in the culture (specifically the events of Kadesh Barnea) and actual spiritual issues (return to the Jewish sacrificial system) faced by this particular group...
 
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Thunderian

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Anyway, here's an article about the seven churches of Revelation. Make of it what you will, but it would appear that the letters have application not only to the Roman Catholic Church, but to the apostate church of today.


The Seven Letters​
Ask any Bible student how many epistles (letters) are in the New Testament. He will probably answer 21 : 13 authored by Paul, plus Hebrews, which appears anonymous;2 and the seven "general epistles" by Peter, James, John, and Jude.​
We usually overlook the seven most important letters: the seven authored by Jesus personally. For many reasons, these seven letters, comprising Chapters 2 and 3 of the Book of Revelation, are probably the most important part of this book for you and me.​
Why These Seven?​
There were many other churches at that time that would seem to be more historically significant than the seven that Jesus addressed: the churches at Jerusalem, Rome, Galatia, Corinth, Antioch, Colossae, Iconium, Lystra, Derbe, Miletus, to name a few. Why did Jesus select just these seven Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea?​
Four Levels of Meaning​
There appear to be at least four levels of application to these letters:​
Local: These were actual, historic churches, with valid needs. Archaeological discoveries have confirmed this.​
Admonitory: In each of the letters there appears the key phrase, "Hear what the Spirit says to the churches". Note the plural, churches. It turns out that each of the letters applies to all churches throughout history. As we understand the sevenfold internal structure, the uniquely tailored messages, and the specific admonitions in each of the letters, we discover that any church can be "mapped" in terms of these seven composite profiles.​
Homiletic: Each of the letters also contains the phrase, "He that hath an ear let him hear..." Doesn't each of us "have an ear"? Each letter applies to each of us. There are some elements of each of these seven "churches" in each of us. Thus, this may be the most practical application of the entire Book of Revelation.​
Prophetic: The most amazing discovery, however, of these seven letters is their apparent prophetic application. These letters describe, with remarkable precision, the unfolding of all subsequent church history.​
These letters describe, with remarkable precision, the unfolding of all subsequent church history. If these letters were in any other order, this would not be true!​
These letters appear to fill the interval between the 69th and 70th "weeks" of Daniel 9. The Book of Acts covers about 30 years; these two chapters of the Book of Revelation cover the next 1,900 years.​
Seven Key Elements​
A key aspect to understanding the letters is to grasp the structure of their design. A careful examination of the letters reveals seven key elements in their design:​
  • The meaning of the name of the church being addressed (see below);
    • The title of Jesus, each chosen relevant to the message to that particular church;
    • The commendation of things that have been done well;
    • The "criticism" of things that need attention;
    • The exhortation, specific to the condition of the particular church;
    • The promise to the "overcomer" included with each letter;
    • The key phrase, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches."
The Meaning of Names​
Epheses: The Desired One​
Smyrna: Myrrh; Death​
Pergamos: Mixed Marriage​
Thyatira: Semiramis​
Sardis: Remnant​
Philadelphia: Brotherly Love​
Laodicea: People Rule​
It is also interesting that this key phrase in element 7 is the final element in the last four letters, but appears before the "Promise to the Overcomer" (element 6) in the first three, leaving the promises as a kind of post script after the body of the letters themselves. This design suggests that the first three letters and the last four may share some particular characteristic. [It is also interesting that only the last four letters include explicit references to our Lord's Second Coming.]​
The Missing Elements​
Once the basic structure is evident, one also notices that two of the letters, Smyrna and Philadelphia, have no Criticism, Element 4. That's encouraging for them.​
Also, two of the letter, Sardis and Laodicea, have no Commendation, Element 5. That's rather grim.​
The Prophetic View​
If these seven letters really do include a preview of all church history, then where are we now? Are we, indeed, in the period suggested by the letter to Laodicea?​
Judge for yourself.​
Other Parallels​
Also, is there an intended parallel between these seven letters of Jesus Christ and His seven "Kingdom Parables" of Matthew 13?​
An what about Paul's letters? It is interesting that Paul signed 13 epistles; but 3 of these had "duplicate" addressees: Corinthians, Thessalonians, and Timothy. That is 13 - 3 = 10 addressees.​
But three addressees were individuals: Titus, Timothy, and Philemon. 10 - 3 = 7. Paul wrote seven churches.​
Is there a possible parallel between the seven churches Paul wrote to and the seven that Jesus addressed in Revelation 2 & 3?​
A detailed study of these seven letters exceeds the scope of this brief glimpse. These remarks have been included to stimulate you to take a closer look at these two chapters and conduct your own careful analysis.​
 
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It is still everlasting if you remain in Him. If you hold fast the beginning of your assurance firm to the end. If you continue in His kindness or you will be cut off. Too many ifs for me to think my salvation is assured. It’s not that I’m working for it, I can’t but I do have to continue on in the faith. I still have to be obedient to God I have to make sure that I’m a good Berean and make sure I am in the truth. Otherwise, I can be deceived with my itchy ears and turn to myths or things I’d rather believe than the truth. If it wasn’t a possibility then God wouldn’t have told me it was..
Your comment confirms that you are trusting in faith PLUS works, and you still don’t believe it is everlasting.

You say, “It is still everlasting IF you remain in Him”...”if” this, “if” that. ...

No! That is NOT “everlasting”! That is conditional, temporary, and relies on YOU to “do” something to ‘keep’ it. That is works based.

That is NOT trusting that the finished work on the Cross was sufficient to save you, because if you really BELIEVE it was sufficient, there would be NOTHING that could even cause your salvation to waver because the work done by Christ is DONE. Complete, FINISHED.

Nothing you do, or do not do, can ever change what Christ has already done.

That is why I say you do not BELIEVE the Gospel of Jesus Christ, because you are not trusting that He ALONE has purchased your salvation—ETERNAL & IN FULL—-because if you did, you would be CERTAIN that you are saved, and certain that you CANNOT EVER LOSE IT.

FE9DCA4C-70D8-42E1-815D-EB1160301741.jpeg
 

Allegra

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I watched this a few months ago and I really liked the explaination. I also watched this after, and it brought everything full circle:

I'm not sure about this guy. He is a 7th day Adventist. Some of his thoughts and opinions might be right but I dont know. The day he talked about Jesus is Michael the Archangel, it is already a warning sign for me and I prefer not to proceed.

AoC on the other hand is [for me] legit. He's a baptist and we both listen to John Piper.
 

TokiEl

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There are a lot of christian cults... the catholic cult the latter day moron cult the j witness cult the 7th day cult the prosperity cult the free grace cult and on and on...

So it's a christan mess... but since they all believe in Jesus Christ they are all saved... according to the free grace cult.


I just kick back and keep the Commandments of God and don't worry about a thing... for as long as i keep them Jesus Christ is with me.

John 14 21 Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.


If you don't know His commandments how can you keep them ? And if you don't keep them you don't love Him... and the Father won't love you and the Son won't reveal Himself to you.

This is also common folk sense... when you love an authority figure then you obey His rules. That's how you show your love and respect for Him.

If you believe in Him you will obey Him... it's as simple as that.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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There are a lot of christian cults... the catholic cult the latter day moron cult the j witness cult the 7th day cult the prosperity cult the free grace cult and on and on...

So it's a christan mess... but since they all believe in Jesus Christ they are all saved... according to the free grace cult.


I just kick back and keep the Commandments of God and don't worry about a thing... for as long as i keep them Jesus Christ is with me.

John 14 21 Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.


If you don't know His commandments how can you keep them ? And if you don't keep them you don't love Him... and the Father won't love you and the Son won't reveal Himself to you.

This is also common folk sense... when you love an authority figure then you obey His rules. That's how you show your love and respect for Him.

If you believe in Him you will obey Him... it's as simple as that.
I think the best advice I ever heard was to “walk your own walk”.

Do Not Judge Your Brother
(Matthew 7:1-6; Luke 6:37-42)

“1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.”

If we are in relationship with the Lord, we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. We do not have a ministry of correcting and scolding one another. Do what the Lord asks of you and share the Gospel with the lost. That’s what we are in this world for, after all.
 

TokiEl

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I think the best advice I ever heard was to “walk your own walk”.
Or do what you wilt ?


Do Not Judge Your Brother
(Matthew 7:1-6; Luke 6:37-42)

“1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.”

If we are in relationship with the Lord, we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. We do not have a ministry of correcting and scolding one another. Do what the Lord asks of you and share the Gospel with the lost. That’s what we are in this world for, after all.
I reprove wrong doctrine.

And that is expected of me.

It's my duty.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Or do what you wilt ?
A good question.

It all hinges on whether Jesus is real and alive in a believer. A genuine born again Christian loses their appetite for sin. Sanctification is the outworking of the life of God within an individual.

When we try it on others it comes off as heavy handed and judgemental. When we allow the Lord to mould and change us to be “conformed to his image” it is the greatest witness to those who know us.
 

Thunderian

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The first part of your comment is describing a reprobate—someone who has so thoroughly & willfully rejected salvation that they cannot believe, and therefore can no longer be saved.

The Romans 1, Hebrews 6 person.

That person NEVER believed.

Reprobates are thankfully not that common, but do exist. Most lost people are just regular lost people....either they haven’t heard (or understood) a clear Gospel presentation or mistakenly think they can be saved by works, but either way, they don’t have hatred toward the Gospel.

Reprobates DO.

That’s the difference. If you ever meet a reprobate you will know what I’m talking about.
If we can't lose our salvation, we can't lose our chance at it, either. Please don't ever tell anyone they can. Please don't do this to people who are already in a deeper and darker spiritual hole than you could ever imagine. Jesus Christ is their only hope.

How can you believe in a grace sufficient enough to save us forever, and then turn right around and say it's not available to every sinner? When you're out soul winning with the gospel message of salvation in Jesus Christ, do you warn them that they might not qualify?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Whosoever means everyone in the world. God will let people be as depraved as they want to be, But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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If we can't lose our salvation, we can't lose our chance at it, either. Please don't ever tell anyone they can. Please don't do this to people who are already in a deeper and darker spiritual hole than you could ever imagine. Jesus Christ is their only hope.

How can you believe in a grace sufficient enough to save us forever, and then turn right around and say it's not available to every sinner? When you're out soul winning with the gospel message of salvation in Jesus Christ, do you warn them that they might not qualify?


For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Whosoever means everyone in the world. God will let people be as depraved as they want to be, But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.
As in:-

5BC093C5-0067-475D-B872-D87340601827.jpeg

https://www.vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/“loud-krazy-love”-the-story-of-korn’s-brian-“head”-welch.5774/
 

Allegra

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There are a lot of christian cults... the catholic cult the latter day moron cult the j witness cult the 7th day cult the prosperity cult the free grace cult and on and on...

So it's a christan mess... but since they all believe in Jesus Christ they are all saved... according to the free grace cult.


I just kick back and keep the Commandments of God and don't worry about a thing... for as long as i keep them Jesus Christ is with me.

John 14 21 Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.


If you don't know His commandments how can you keep them ? And if you don't keep them you don't love Him... and the Father won't love you and the Son won't reveal Himself to you.

This is also common folk sense... when you love an authority figure then you obey His rules. That's how you show your love and respect for Him.

If you believe in Him you will obey Him... it's as simple as that.
So you don’t believe in “Sola Fide and Sola Gratia”? (I'm just asking so don't be too sensitive here, we are all in good faith to discuss doctrines and stuffs, so idk why some people here get upset when being asked their belief, hmm?? something not right. or there is some unwritten rules? i dont know!)


I remember Martin Luther tried to remove the book of Hebrews, James, Jude And Revelation from canon cuz he perceived that those books against Sola Fide and Sola Gratia. That’s why to this day these books are the last ordered in Luther’s canon.

If the person who started the doctrine believe that some of the books in the bible seem to against it then that means the doctrine might need some ‘work’ because he also believed in Sola Scriptura.

However I personally believe in Sola Fide and Sola Gratia [also Sola Scriptura], but that because once we receive, we are made new by the Holy Spirit and with it comes obedience. If a person doesn’t have the obedience, or the effort to obey God’s will and commandments then, he can’t be justified with “Sola Fide and Sola Gratia”, unless God says otherwise cuz at the end, only God has the right to say the last word. No man knows all the Truth.
 

Lisa

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Your comment confirms that you are trusting in faith PLUS works, and you still don’t believe it is everlasting.

You say, “It is still everlasting IF you remain in Him”...”if” this, “if” that. ...

No! That is NOT “everlasting”! That is conditional, temporary, and relies on YOU to “do” something to ‘keep’ it. That is works based.

That is NOT trusting that the finished work on the Cross was sufficient to save you, because if you really BELIEVE it was sufficient, there would be NOTHING that could even cause your salvation to waver because the work done by Christ is DONE. Complete, FINISHED.

Nothing you do, or do not do, can ever change what Christ has already done.

That is why I say you do not BELIEVE the Gospel of Jesus Christ, because you are not trusting that He ALONE has purchased your salvation—ETERNAL & IN FULL—-because if you did, you would be CERTAIN that you are saved, and certain that you CANNOT EVER LOSE IT.

View attachment 22642
It’s not me saying IF, those If’s were quoted from the Bible. You do have to stay in the faith and not leave it...it was faith that saved you, if you stop believing in the one true God..then aren’t you out of the faith? You have to keep the faith.

Let me ask you...once we believe do we still have free will? Is it works to say no to sinful things? I still have free will to live in sin if I want to after I am saved. We aren’t supposed to and we have the Holy Spirit to help us but satan still tempts us to sin. How do we then get back into a right relationship with God after we sin? We confess our sins so we can be forgiven....is that works too? Because if you have sin between you and God aren’t you therefore separated again from Him? And again, I’m not saying one sin or one time you were deceived and therefore you have fallen away...I’m saying its a continual falling away from the truth. God doesn’t let you go easy but one has to wonder why He would warn us that we could fall away if it wasn’t possible, going even so far as to having many if’s in the Bible to show us that it is a conditional on us being in the faith that saved us in the first place.

Even our salvation is conditional on us believing in Jesus. That is conditional and a lot of people hate that one condition on salvation so much they won’t believe or they make up other ways to be saved without having to have Jesus as a ‘crutch.’

I do believe that Jesus’ work on the cross was final, that if I believe on the Lord Jesus Christ I will be saved but no where in that is a promise to be saved even in unbelief, you must believe on Jesus to be saved.
2 Timothy 4:7‬ ‭
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith
Is Paul works based here when he says he has kept the faith? I don’t think so, that just means that he stayed faithful to the end, which is what we also need to do. Because the one who endures to the end will be saved...also conditional don’t you think? But its Jesus who said it Matthew 24.
‭‭
 

TokiEl

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So you don’t believe in “Sola Fide and Sola Gratia”?
Those are the man and antisemite Martin Luther's slogans. I spit on it.L0L


The Bible is very clear that it is only the spilt Blood of Jesus Christ that can remove sins from sinners.

The contention is how do sinners apply for that Blood to remove their sins right ? Some say by faith and some say by more sins and some say this and that and... but Jesus answer is by repentance.

Luke 24 46And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.


Of course if people don't know what repentance is... they are none the wiser nor forgiven.



But don't tell anybody the truth as i want lebensraum in Heaven you hear ? I've never cared much for a crowd. L0L
 
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Allegra

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Those are the man and antisemite Martin Luther's slogans. I spit on it.L0L


The Bible is very clear that it is only the spilt Blood of Jesus Christ that can remove sins from sinners.

The contention is how do sinners apply for that Blood to remove their sins right ? Some say by faith and some say by more sins and some say this and that and... but Jesus answer is by repentance.

Luke 24 46And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.


Of course if people don't know what repentance is... they are none the wiser nor forgiven.



But don't tell anybody the truth as i want lebensraum in Heaven you hear ? I've never cared much for a crowd. L0L
In all honesty, dear brother in Christ, I do not dare to spit on God's work.

I believe God worked through Martin Luther to free us from the cult called Roman Catholic Church. Through him, God presents us 5 Solas, these are also God's Truth.
  1. Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.
  2. Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
  3. Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
  4. Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
  5. Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.
We are saved through faith by the grace of God. Period.
But we ought to live for God. If you don't have obedience, then.. sigh... I dont know. It's up to God's judgement.

Anyhow, that's all from me I guess, I'm not really into OSAS debates.
 

Dalit

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In all honesty, dear brother in Christ, I do not dare to spit on God's work.

I believe God worked through Martin Luther to free us from the cult called Roman Catholic Church. Through him, God presents us 5 Solas, these are also God's Truth.
  1. Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.
  2. Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
  3. Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
  4. Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
  5. Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.
We are saved through faith by the grace of God. Period.
But we ought to live for God. If you don't have obedience, then.. sigh... I dont know. It's up to God's judgement.

Anyhow, that's all from me I guess, I'm not really into OSAS debates.
Thank you for sharing the 5 Solas. They've really been a blessing to me lately.
 
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It’s not me saying IF, those If’s were quoted from the Bible. You do have to stay in the faith and not leave it...it was faith that saved you, if you stop believing in the one true God..then aren’t you out of the faith? You have to keep the faith.

Let me ask you...once we believe do we still have free will? Is it works to say no to sinful things? I still have free will to live in sin if I want to after I am saved. We aren’t supposed to and we have the Holy Spirit to help us but satan still tempts us to sin. How do we then get back into a right relationship with God after we sin? We confess our sins so we can be forgiven....is that works too? Because if you have sin between you and God aren’t you therefore separated again from Him? And again, I’m not saying one sin or one time you were deceived and therefore you have fallen away...I’m saying its a continual falling away from the truth. God doesn’t let you go easy but one has to wonder why He would warn us that we could fall away if it wasn’t possible, going even so far as to having many if’s in the Bible to show us that it is a conditional on us being in the faith that saved us in the first place.

Even our salvation is conditional on us believing in Jesus. That is conditional and a lot of people hate that one condition on salvation so much they won’t believe or they make up other ways to be saved without having to have Jesus as a ‘crutch.’

I do believe that Jesus’ work on the cross was final, that if I believe on the Lord Jesus Christ I will be saved but no where in that is a promise to be saved even in unbelief, you must believe on Jesus to be saved.
2 Timothy 4:7‬ ‭
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith
Is Paul works based here when he says he has kept the faith? I don’t think so, that just means that he stayed faithful to the end, which is what we also need to do. Because the one who endures to the end will be saved...also conditional don’t you think? But its Jesus who said it Matthew 24.
‭‭
The verse (13) you are speaking of in Matthew 24 is referring to PHYSICAL salvation (this is clarified in verse 22)....NOT spiritual salvation.

Look at the passage:

Matthew 24 (KJB):
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


I’m talking about SPIRITUAL salvation, not physical. We are all going to physically die, and I don’t know of any way to save you from that.

I can only help you with the spiritual salvation, because I know how to be saved from that, and the only way is to TRULY BELIEVE on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

You must STOP believing that YOU have anything to do with gaining, losing, “keeping” or otherwise maintaining salvation, because nothing you do or don’t do will change the fact that Jesus Christ has ALREADY paid for ALL of YOUR sins—past, present AND future—with His sinless blood on the Cross.
 
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13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Yes, those who suffer physical persecution and endure it will be justified by the judgement of God upon their persecutors at His return. This is talking about the Great Tribulation and Christ return. Compare with (Rev. 6:9-11)
 

Lisa

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The verse (13) you are speaking of in Matthew 24 is referring to PHYSICAL salvation (this is clarified in verse 22)....NOT spiritual salvation.

Look at the passage:

Matthew 24 (KJB):
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


I’m talking about SPIRITUAL salvation, not physical. We are all going to physically die, and I don’t know of any way to save you from that.

I can only help you with the spiritual salvation, because I know how to be saved from that, and the only way is to TRULY BELIEVE on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

You must STOP believing that YOU have anything to do with gaining, losing, “keeping” or otherwise maintaining salvation, because nothing you do or don’t do will change the fact that Jesus Christ has ALREADY paid for ALL of YOUR sins—past, present AND future—with His sinless blood on the Cross.
I don’t see the correlation between the verses honestly.

I don’t have to stop believing that, you haven’t shown me where the verses I brought up don’t mean what they say they mean. It’s hard to say the Holy Spirit doesn’t mean what He says though the verse says the Spirit explicitly says that in the last days some will fall away from the faith. Then there are other verses that back up the 2Timothy verse....I think it’s you who are wrong here.
 

TokiEl

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In all honesty, dear brother in Christ, I do not dare to spit on God's work.

I believe God worked through Martin Luther to free us from the cult called Roman Catholic Church. Through him, God presents us 5 Solas, these are also God's Truth.
  1. Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.
  2. Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
  3. Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
  4. Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
  5. Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.
I am of the old school who hear what Jesus Christ said in the four gospels. That's my theology from the mouth of the Lord God himself. And true He said believe in Him but He also mentioned the necessity of repentance for remission of sins. That is to regret and turn from former sins and start living righteously according to His words.

It's unsettling that christians believe they can get away with adultery and premeditated murder just because they believe in Jesus. But that's Free grace theology for you... or Babylon christianity as i call it.

And we all know what happens to Babylon.
 
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I don’t see the correlation between the verses honestly.

I don’t have to stop believing that, you haven’t shown me where the verses I brought up don’t mean what they say they mean. It’s hard to say the Holy Spirit doesn’t mean what He says though the verse says the Spirit explicitly says that in the last days some will fall away from the faith. Then there are other verses that back up the 2Timothy verse....I think it’s you who are wrong here.
It’s crystal clear, Lisa, so if you don’t understand it, you should ask yourself why.

This popped into my head when I read your response:

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”.....1 Corinthians 2:14 KJB

One thing I have noticed about you that has changed since the old VC forums is that nowadays, you seem very preoccupied with falling away from the faith.

You should think on that, and ask yourself why that is.

We already KNOW that many will fall away THE faith (Christianity), because not everyone who claims to be Christian is even saved.

But that should not be misinterpreted to mean that a saved person can fall away from faith (belief) in Jesus Christ because NO saved, born-again believer can just “stop” believing—even if they tried.

When you believe, you become aware of the TRUTH of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is no longer merely a story or historical event....but an absolute fact that is undeniable.

It doesn’t require constant reaffirmation or reassurance that it is the truth. It is believed on with all your heart unto salvation and NEVER stops being true.

This is how it is for me, and I am certain that it is the same for ALL saved individuals.

If you need to constantly reassure yourself that the Gospel is true, you haven’t really believed it.

By thinking you must “keep” believing or else it will somehow ‘slip away’ means you are working for your faith because you do not really BELIEVE it.

You are trusting in yourself & that is why you are continually doubting. When you stop trusting in yourself & trust instead in Christ, you will be saved. Then you will KNOW your salvation is secure and you can rest in that knowledge.

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