Revelation

[Claire Rousseau]

It seems to me that the muslims have gone out to conquer the west, honestly. All the muslims that have been let into Western Europe and for what reason, really? They are immigrants? Just fighting aged men coming without wives or children and are now causing trouble in Western Europe? Seems like they are there for some fight maybe? You add that with the clay and iron prophecy...I think the 1st seal has been opened. Or even when God talked about how Ishmael will be a wild donkey of a man and his hand will be against everyone and everyone against him.

I thought the 2nd seal was opened long ago...but it could just be the wars and rumors of wars...perhaps when the conquering does actually start and people start to fight for their lives...and their children’s lives...then that seal will be opened. But I definitely think the first seal is opened.

The antichrist is only revealed after the Christians fall away..but we aren’t told exactly when, but then
Daniel talks about the antichrist cutting off the sacrifices and the abomination of desolation...I kinda think he gets revealed then in the middle of the tribulation. Though that isn’t a firm belief.

I personally think we ARE in the great falling away, now.

Most churches have become fun centers, look exactly like the world, even though we are commanded to be not of the world. Pastors don’t rebuke sin like divorce, fornication, adultery....as a result people have gotten soft & the new generation sees it as normal.

All these strange denominations like Charismatics, agnostics, Mormons, JW, Hebrew Roots, Modalists, etc...it’s like people have no concept of who Jesus is.

They have turned Him into a parody, like some long-haired, dress wearing hippie that loves everything. That just IS NOT who He is.

Jesus sat down and literally braided cords into a whip and chased out the moneychangers and people selling doves in the house of God and threw over tables lashing at those that make merchandise of the church.....can you imagine what He would do to the “ministries” of today that sell books & coffee in the lobby?

When He returns, it will be with eyes of flaming fire, pouring out Judgment. People aren’t going to be prepared for the wrath He will bring.

But since Everyone has itching ears and want to hear smooth things preached, that’s what the people-pleasing Pastors preach.

Their riches won’t save them when Jesus comes back with a vengeance, and judgment always comes first to the house of God.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

So...what happens to the 5 permanent members? I mean, are we gonna just say, well there’s 10 of something here that must fit, but ignore the 5 permanent members cause that won’t fit?

No, all 10 will hand over their power to the one world dictator—the Antichrist, who is the Beast, but his system (one world government) is also the beast, the beast system.

 

[Lisa]

No, all 10 will hand over their power to the one world dictator—the Antichrist, who is the Beast, but his system (one world government) is also the beast, the beast system.

Maybe its me but you said there are 5 permanent members and 10 non permanent members...what happens to the 5 permanent members?

 

[Lisa]

I personally think we ARE in the great falling away, now.

Most churches have become fun centers, look exactly like the world, even though we are commanded to be not of the world. Pastors don’t rebuke sin like divorce, fornication, adultery....as a result people have gotten soft & the new generation sees it as normal.

All these strange denominations like Charismatics, agnostics, Mormons, JW, Hebrew Roots, Modalists, etc...it’s like people have no concept of who Jesus is.

They have turned Him into a parody, like some long-haired, dress wearing hippie that loves everything. That just IS NOT who He is.

Jesus sat down and literally braided cords into a whip and chased out the moneychangers and people selling doves in the house of God and threw over tables lashing at those that make merchandise of the church.....can you imagine what He would do to the “ministries” of today that sell books & coffee in the lobby?

When He returns, it will be with eyes of flaming fire, pouring out Judgment. People aren’t going to be prepared for the wrath He will bring.

But since Everyone has itching ears and want to hear smooth things preached, that’s what the people-pleasing Pastors preach.

Their riches won’t save them when Jesus comes back with a vengeance, and judgment always comes first to the house of God.

Ya, I agree, we are in the falling away. Is it a great falling away though? I used to think it was the great falling away too, but the verse says that some will fall away from the faith. Reminds me of Eve saying that they couldn’t even touch the fruit...but anyways..

I don’t tend to think like that, what would Jesus do with the ministries of today? He tells us there will be false teachers and prophets and to watch out for them.

Is there scripture to back up the phrase that judgement always comes first to the house of God?

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Maybe its me but you said there are 5 permanent members and 10 non permanent members...what happens to the 5 permanent members?

Hold on, there’s a tornado passing through, will respond after it passes.

 

[TokiEl]

I don’t hate Jews.

I wish they would get saved.

But if you think they are not under God’s Wrath today, you are wrong.

They STILL don’t believe.

Who do you think defended little Israel three times against collective Arab invasion attempts ?

They don't believe for God has blinded them to their Messiah. If God did not blind them... they would become christians a long time ago and assimilated into christian nations with no desire to ever return to the Holy land... and so make God a liar.

For God said He would return them.

Anyway it's just a matter of time before God remove their scales so they can see Jesus Christ is their Messiah.

 

[TokiEl]

It seems to me that the muslims have gone out to conquer the west, honestly. All the muslims that have been let into Western Europe and for what reason, really? They are immigrants? Just fighting aged men coming without wives or children and are now causing trouble in Western Europe? Seems like they are there for some fight maybe? You add that with the clay and iron prophecy...I think the 1st seal has been opened. Or even when God talked about how Ishmael will be a wild donkey of a man and his hand will be against everyone and everyone against him.

The five first seals has already been opened.

Seal 1 Papacy from Vatican I. Seal 2 Communism. Seal 3 Famine from world wars and Communism and drought in Africa etc etc . Seal 4 Radical Islam. Seal 5 Christian martyrs victims of Communism and radical Islam.

Seal 6 God's wrath any day now just over the horizon.

The antichrist is only revealed after the Christians fall away..

The Antichrist has been revealed on TV.

Very few had the chance to see the pope in person but with the unrestrained advancements of technology like TV... the pope has been revealed to the whole world for half a century already. About the same time the falling away from true Christian faith gained momentum.

The times of the Gentiles would be fulfilled when the Jews restored Jerusalem according to Jesus. So no wonder organized christianity since June 7 1967 has been falling away... falling away from true faith in numbers.

 

[TokiEl]

No, all 10 will hand over their power to the one world dictator—the Antichrist, who is the Beast, but his system (one world government) is also the beast, the beast system.

The Dictator is the little horn the revived Third reich Führer... and the Antichrist is his right hand man the prince who is to come the man of sin the pope.

 

[TokiEl]

Hold on, there’s a tornado passing through, will respond after it passes.

Be safe. The Midwest is just being pummeled from above isn't it ?

 

[Lisa]

The five first seals has already been opened.

I don’t think so. The muslims have gone out conquering and to conquer by going into Western Europe. They’ve already invaded Asia, Africa and the Middle East. They’ve come to the US and Canada...
Daniel tells us in the last government that the iron and the clay won’t get along too well. Well those muslims and the European way don’t get along to well..

The second seal may be ready to open or maybe it’s already opened and the pope is correct that WWIII has already been going on?

I don’t believe that we’ve had the economic disaster everyone is waiting for and has been predicting forever..

I also don’t believe that this has happened yet either.
“I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.”‭‭REVELATION‬ ‭6:8‬ ‭
Only because the seals go in order. They can’t be all open already.
And I don’t believe the 5th seal with the martyrs has been opened because Jesus tells us that those people will be martyred for their testimonies. I haven’t heard anyone being murdered for their testimonies but they are killed because the muslims think they are catholics who muslims think are Christians. The catholics don’t give a testimony when they are killed.

No, God’s wrath is still a few seals away as the world gets set up for a one world government. And the Jews haven’t rebuilt the temple...that is a big end time prophecy having yet to be fulfilled.

The pope might be the antichrist but he hasn’t been revealed to be the antichrist and he hasn’t stood in the holy of holies either...

But, I agree that Christians have been falling away and Christianity is in the decline...how else can lawlessness increase?

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Ya, I agree, we are in the falling away. Is it a great falling away though? I used to think it was the great falling away too, but the verse says that some will fall away from the faith. Reminds me of Eve saying that they couldn’t even touch the fruit...but anyways..

I don’t tend to think like that, what would Jesus do with the ministries of today? He tells us there will be false teachers and prophets and to watch out for them.

Is there scripture to back up the phrase that judgement always comes first to the house of God?

There’s always been false prophets and such, but I don’t see how apostasy can get any worse than it already is.

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”....1 Peter 4:17 KJB

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Be safe. The Midwest is just being pummeled from above isn't it ?

Thanks, Toki.

I’m in North Texas, DFW.

We have tornadoes regularly, spring is tornado season around here so we are used to them. They are actually quite beautiful sometimes, though we must respect the danger of them.

Thank God, we’ve never never been injured, just had our shed demolished once, and sometimes our fencing or roof will get damaged.

We get the most tornadoes in Texas, but they tend to be weaker here than the ones they get in Oklahoma.

 

[Thunderian]

I am NOT a Jew, I am a Christian.

Galatians 3:
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

When a person gets saved, they don't stop being what they are. In Christ, we are one body, but you are still a woman, I am still a man, and Jews are still Jews. Remember, Paul said of himself that he was "of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews." Clearly, a distinction is still made, as long as we are in the flesh.

Do you believe that God is done with Israel? If you do, then there's a problem, because God promised some things to Abraham regarding his seed. Did God mean what he said to Abraham?

and heirs according to the promise

What promise do you suppose Paul was speaking of?

Gal 3:14​

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.​

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The promise Paul speaks of, that we inherit from Abraham, is the promise of Jesus Christ. Jesus said to the Pharisees, Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day. Abraham had faith that a redeemer would come.

 

[UnspokenSoliloquy]

I personally have no inclined belief to any interpretation of The Book of Revelation. For me it's sacred that no one knows all the truth and the right interpretation. The book is very tricky. If a pastor wrongly misinterpret the book, it can mislead a lot of people.

I do watch some videos from https://www.youtube.com/user/jclewis/videos (AoC Network) and he talks a lot about end times thing and also about "The Two Witnesses", "Daniel's Prophecy", etc. What I like about him that he explains it based on scriptures and he explores it. So not much about his own opinions.

I watched this a few months ago and I really liked the explaination. I also watched this after, and it brought everything full circle:

 

[UnspokenSoliloquy]

You are welcome to bring whatever you want to this thread that has bearing on the subject, but it should be in line with scripture.

As for the seals being opened:

1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.​

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2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.​

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3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.​

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4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.​

Who is the rider on the white horse?

The Wonder Woman movie seemed to reference the Red horse and the "This is America" video by Childish Gambino included the white horse.

 

[Lisa]

There’s always been false prophets and such, but I don’t see how apostasy can get any worse than it already is.

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”....1 Peter 4:17 KJB

At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
‭‭Matthew 24:10‬
Sounds like it could get worse.

 

[TokiEl]

And I don’t believe the 5th seal with the martyrs has been opened because Jesus tells us that those people will be martyred for their testimonies. I haven’t heard anyone being murdered for their testimonies but they are killed because the muslims think they are catholics who muslims think are Christians. The catholics don’t give a testimony when they are killed.

A lot of Christians have been martyred by Communism and radical Islam this past century.

And the 4th seal where Death and Hell have power over one fourth of the earth to kill with sword famine pestilence and wild beasts... well Islam make up one fourth of the world population. And Islam terrorism is a world wide problem.

 

[Lisa]

A lot of Christians have been martyred by Communism and radical Islam this past century.

And the 4th seal where Death and Hell have power over one fourth of the earth to kill with sword famine pestilence and wild beasts... well Islam make up one fourth of the world population. And Islam terrorism is a world wide problem.

Good point, but much of that is this here...
For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
‭‭Matthew 24:7-8‬

As to the killing of Christians...a lot of those killed ‘Christians’ are catholics. Can catholics really be Christian martyrs? They have a different gospel to the true gospel of the Bible.

And this has not happened yet..
But be on your guard; for they will deliver you to the courts, and you will be flogged in the synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them. The gospel must first be preached to all the nations.
‭‭Mark ‭13:9-10‬ ‭

 

[TokiEl]

As to the killing of Christians...a lot of those killed ‘Christians’ are catholics. Can catholics really be Christian martyrs? They have a different gospel to the true gospel of the Bible.

Yes Catholics can be Christian martyrs... but i think it's mostly the Eastern Orthdox Church that has spilt the most blood this past century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians

In the 20th century, Christians were persecuted by various governments including the Islamic Ottoman Empire in the form of the Armenian Genocide, the Assyrian Genocide and the Greek Genocide, as well as by atheistic states such as the Soviet Union, Communist Albania and North Korea.

And this has not happened yet..
But be on your guard; for they will deliver you to the courts, and you will be flogged in the synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them. The gospel must first be preached to all the nations.
‭‭Mark ‭13:9-10‬ ‭

The Pharisees persecuted Christians before Rome came and slaughtered the Jews and enslaved the rest.

 

[Lisa]

Yes Catholics can be Christian martyrs... but i think it's mostly the Eastern Orthdox Church that has spilt the most blood this past century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians

In the 20th century, Christians were persecuted by various governments including the Islamic Ottoman Empire in the form of the Armenian Genocide, the Assyrian Genocide and the Greek Genocide, as well as by atheistic states such as the Soviet Union, Communist Albania and North Korea.




The Pharisees persecuted Christians before Rome came and slaughtered the Jews and enslaved the rest.

How can catholics be Christian martyrs? They aren’t really even Christians. They don’t believe Jesus is the once for all sacrifice for sins. Catholics believe you need Mary and the church and Sunday mass. That’s not Christianity.

Again not to split hairs here...how many of those killed were actually believing Christians? And since the seals are in numerical order...those killed before the seals are even opened don’t count.

Again, what Christians have gone up against today’s kings and governors as a testimony to them? How many have been beheaded for their testimonies? Those prophecies haven’t been fulfilled yet.