Does Jesus/Yahweh love us or is he stalking us?

[Karlysymon]

It isn’t for you to know, you don’t even know me. I, however, do know myself and know I have zero desire to do any of those things therefore I won’t do them. Self control is remarkably underrated.

Iam sorry, i guess i should have used myself as the example. Life is unpredictable and unforseen things happen that push people over the edge. So while i may think myself squeaky clean, who knows what may happen in a decade? I always think about this unpredictability whenever a story such as this happens
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_family_homicides
How many people, on their wedding day think that in 10yrs, they'll be murdering their spouse and kids?

Its only the power of God, in Christ, that for me, keeps me in line. I can't boast of self-control. Where was it inChris Watt's case?

 

[Karlysymon]

Even you are morally superior to those like your god who use genocide and kill when they could just as easily cure.

Only barbaric immoral idiots will see justice in a god who demands his son's death to forgive us when he could just forgive us outright.

Are you not more moral than the satanic Yahweh?

Given his power, would you also kill instead of cure, or would you follow the way Jesus said he came to do, which was to look after the needy and not those who did not need his help?

Would you help them or kill them?

Regards
DL

You speak as though The Father forced the Cross on Christ. Don't you ever think the Christ had a say in it?
John 10:18 may give you the answer.

 

[justjess]

How do I know I would never kill my husband and children? I just know. If I haven’t already it ain’t in the cards.

The man was having an affair, her friend clearly knew enough about something to be monitoring her and checking in (how did she know she missed a pre natal?) obviously there were signs something was wrong.

I have no fear of doing something horrific in ten years or twenty or fifty because it is repulsive to me and goes against every single thing I believe and who I am as a person. If I ever did I’d deserve to rot in hell and I wouldn’t want anyone’s forgiveness anyway.

How do you reconcile the incompatible doctrines of free will and predetermination?

 

[Karlysymon]

How do I know I would never kill my husband and children? I just know. If I haven’t already it ain’t in the cards.

The man was having an affair, her friend clearly knew enough about something to be monitoring her and checking in (how did she know she missed a pre natal?) obviously there were signs something was wrong.

I have no fear of doing something horrific in ten years or twenty or fifty because it is repulsive to me and goes against every single thing I believe and who I am as a person. If I ever did I’d deserve to rot in hell and I wouldn’t want anyone’s forgiveness anyway.

How do you reconcile the incompatible doctrines of free will and predetermination?

I will get back to you on this.

 

[elsbet]

Does Jesus/Yahweh love us or is he stalking us?

Love without reciprocity, works and deeds, according toscriptures and Jesus’ own words, not that a supernatural Jesus ever existed, isnot a true love.

All you need to do, to know the truth of that notion; is tolook at your own standards of love. You would not love someone who does notreturn that love, as that is more a stalkers kind of love.

Some Christians and other believers will not see that. Mostwho are not led by faith, generally accept the truth stated above.

This link, in its message, gives about the same notion.

View attachment 21184

Your thoughts?

Regards
DL

I wonder why you don't know how it works.

 

[Colonel Valerio]

While this is an interesting observation, it is practically impossible

If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, [d]how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. 1 John 4:20-21

Then explain your attitude towards Jews or Claire’s hatred of homosexuals? Is it hate or love when a Christian murders an abortion doctor or a Muslim blows himself up at a bus stop?

It is a universal law that the creation cannot be greater than its creator. So if you think that you are good enough, not to have the world as it is for entertainment and that if you were God, you wouldn’t play this game, what then makes you think that the freak show that is the state of the world is His entertainment? You cannot be morally superior to your own Creator and you cannot be better than He is because He is the source of good. If you argue that it is possible for you to be morally superior than God is, you won’t be the first nor the last to make that claim. Countless others have gone before you and a one patron saint comes to mind.

In a few decades we will probably create AI that is “superior” to us ( whatever that actually means ). It’s for his entertainment and ego, why does he desire to be worshipped? He could still let us have a choice but why does he not constantly show himself? At anytime he could come down and say hey guys! I’m God I created you, let me show you an example of my awesome and supreme power! So why the game? Why reveal Himself only to a group of desert nomads the rest of the world be damned?

I am morally superior to the mythological character of Yahweh. I’ve never burned cities to the ground, flooded the entire planet, asked a man to sacrifice his son, sacrificed my own, advocated for total war and r*pe, viewed women as property or supported slavery.

God is also by necessity the source of evil if he is the source of all things.

People do terrible things because we are selfish animals and so much relies on upbringing and brain chemistry.

We have a troubled evolution that necessitated violence from the get go followed by the long painful collective scar that is civilized history. Evolution teaches us our animal nature and science and reason and philosophy teaches us how to control it.


Once again if your conception of all knowing god is true, who knows everything that has or ever will happen, free will is impossible.

If the only thing keeping you decent is someone watching over you then it says more about you then it ever will me. I know myself and I know the darkest parts of my mind, I also know I can control myself and would never harm an innocent.

 

[DevaWolf]

You speak as though The Father forced the Cross on Christ. Don't you ever think the Christ had a say in it?
John 10:18 may give you the answer.

Well, did he have a choice?

According to the Bible we all have free will, but Jesus whole purpose was to do this right?

And this free will thing, well, I will keep my opinion of that out of here for now.

 

[DevaWolf]

Only barbaric immoral idiots will see justice in a god who demands his son's death to forgive us when he could just forgive us outright.



Regards
DL

That's well said and really puts forth one of the stranger things about the Bible story. God gives us free will , makes a mistake, sends us off to earth for it and then needs to create a son to fix the problem while he could just not have put that tree there OR just fixed the problem punishing maybe(?) only the deserving two humans who were Adam and Eve and not blame all the other humans for it.

Or maybe just not start this whole story alltogether because God knew what was going to happen ..

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

You speak as though The Father forced the Cross on Christ. Don't you ever think the Christ had a say in it?
John 10:18 may give you the answer.

Which is contradicted by Jesus being chosen and his saying that he can do nothing without the father.

You should know by now how contradictory your book of myths is. We can make it say almost anything, but if you think Yahweh's rejection of barbaric blood sacrifice is wrong, I don't blame you as your bible paints him as quite evil.

I guess you forgot Jesus whining the night before and praying to be let off the hook.

Human sacrifice is evil and you are evil if you plan to take advantage of abdicating your own responsibility for your sins.

You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fibre as Yahweh. Satan applauds you though as you are doing her work. Congratulations, Christian.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I wonder why you don't know how it works.

I do and I see it more as stocking than loving.

I wonder why you could not form an apology against my views and just decided to do the usual Christian insult while running away.

I guess you cannot justify how it work.

Not surprising as you would be trashing Jesus and the laws he said he came to fulfil.

Look above as you do not seem to know of those good laws ands prefer the law where someone else takes your rightful punishment. Cowards can never be moral.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Well, did he have a choice?

According to the Bible we all have free will, but Jesus whole purpose was to do this right?

And this free will thing, well, I will keep my opinion of that out of here for now.

Hi D W.

We are not free to never sin. That is why we are all sinners. We do have free will but must sin to survive as we must evolve and that means competing for resources and the losers will feel that evil has come their way.

That aside, here is what I say to Christians on their foolish views of free will.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature, then the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

That's well said and really puts forth one of the stranger things about the Bible story. God gives us free will , makes a mistake, sends us off to earth for it and then needs to create a son to fix the problem while he could just not have put that tree there OR just fixed the problem punishing maybe(?) only the deserving two humans who were Adam and Eve and not blame all the other humans for it.

Or maybe just not start this whole story alltogether because God knew what was going to happen ..

I agree, but that would not create a false guilt in people which is used by the lying clergy to loosed up the purse strings and increase their revenues.

Only the sick pay to get well. The well have no need of a lying doctor/preacher.

If you wish to know how I read Genesis, read what the Jews have always thought and note how Christianity reversed that for the bigger cash flow.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/20/comparative-theodicy/
‘Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.

Regards
DL

 

[elsbet]

I do and I see it more as stocking than loving.

I wonder why you could not form an apology against my views and just decided to do the usual Christian insult while running away.

I guess you cannot justify how it work.

Not surprising as you would be trashing Jesus and the laws he said he came to fulfil.

Look above as you do not seem to know of those good laws ands prefer the law where someone else takes your rightful punishment. Cowards can never be moral.

Regards
DL

It's not an insult-- its a fact.

And no.. no man can ransom the life of another.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

It's not an insult-- its a fact.

And no.. no man can ransom the life of another.

So you do not believe that Jesus died for you. Right?

Regards
DL

 

[elsbet]

So you do not believe that Jesus died for you. Right?

Regards
DL

My response is to to this part of your post:

Look above as you do not seem to know of those good laws ands prefer the law where someone else takes your rightful punishment...​

"Someone else" implies another person.

Christians don't believe another person took our rightful punishment-- we believe God took our rightful punishment. Obviously, you don't have to believe in the divinity of Jesus.. that He was God, incarnate-- but we do-- and it really is that simple.

You don't incorporate that fact into your internet-wide arguments, so they are dishonest---> the reader should understand that.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

"Someone else" implies another person.

So Mary gave birth to something other than a person. Ok.
That would be an abomination, so are you saying Jesus was an abomination?
Whatever happened to the usual Christian idiocy that Jesus was 100% man and 100 % god?

Christians don't believe another person took our rightful punishment-- we believe God took our rightful punishment.

The wages of sin is death. Now you are saying that god can die.
Oh yee of little faith.

[']
and it really is that simple[/URL].

Yes. Simple and stupid.

You don't incorporate that fact into your internet-wide arguments, so they are dishonest---> the reader should understand that.

Thanks for being one of my groupies.

The fact that you are ignoring is that if your child came home and said he took advantage of an innocent boy's unjust punishment to escape his own punishment, you, if at all moral, would likely reprimand him severly and return him to the scene to make his apologies.

If not, you have a corrupted moral sense and are allowing your child to create the same vile morality as you have.

Regards
DL

 

[JoChris]

So Mary gave birth to something other than a person. Ok.
That would be an abomination, so are you saying Jesus was an abomination?
Whatever happened to the usual Christian idiocy that Jesus was 100% man and 100 % god?



The wages of sin is death. Now you are saying that god can die.
Oh yee of little faith.



Yes. Simple and stupid.



Thanks for being one of my groupies.

The fact that you are ignoring is that if your child came home and said he took advantage of an innocent boy's unjust punishment to escape his own punishment, you, if at all moral, would likely reprimand him severly and return him to the scene to make his apologies.

If not, you have a corrupted moral sense and are allowing your child to create the same vile morality as you have.

Regards
DL

https://englishhelponline.me/2011/05/01/idiom-to-be-a-broken-record/

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Go away you ignorant Christian genocidal god lover.

Regards
DL

 

[Colonel Valerio]

Go away you ignorant Christian genocidal god lover.

Regards
DL

You know their morality is twisted and vile; therefore they can never actually argue with you. We both know brother Bishop that they worship an evil entity, the most evil thing in world history. There is no defense of the creature so all they can do is insult you. They are weak and pathetic and admitting that they worship the devil would crush them so they double down.

Never stop telling the truth.

 

[TokiEl]

You know their morality is twisted and vile; therefore they can never actually argue with you. We both know brother Bishop that they worship an evil entity, the most evil thing in world history. There is no defense of the creature so all they can do is insult you. They are weak and pathetic and admitting that they worship the devil would crush them so they double down.

Never stop telling the truth.

Secret societies think that Jesus Christ is evil... while Lucifer is good.

This they think while they kill lie cheat steal and sacrifice people.

They are truly psychopaths.