@Daciple
If you know my position then why were you asking me questions about losing salvation for one sin?
That is the million dollar question is it not? How low can you go before that’s it?
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brethren, that there
not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ,
if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end.
Sounds like you have to hold fast from beginning to end to not lose it..anyway.
I have told you, I felt as if you were ignoring the verses I brought in by not talking about them and I thought they were the main focus as to why I believe the way I do, so how can I talk with you if you won’t even acknowledge what they say? Bringing other verses in and saying this is why osas isn’t the same as talking about the verse that I brought up. Because the verse I brought up actually says that some will fall away from the faith. Argue how that doesn’t mean what it says it does first.
It it a works based salvation when you have to stay in the faith? It is by works that I have to stay in the faith or by belief? We all had to believe to be saved, would you call that works? We must therefore stay in the faith by continuing to believe the truth and not fall away from that truth into deception and lies.
Aren’t we justified by faith but can we continue to be sanctified if we fall away from the faith that justified us?
The verse John is not talking about the same thing as falling away. The verse in 1Timothy explicitly says that the people who fall away fall from the faith. They were in the faith..if we go to Hebrews, we find that they are true believers, who even have had the Holy Spirit, but they fell away from the faith. This verse gives credence to the other verse. I am not just clinging to two verses..there are many.
Hebrews 6:4-8
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
I don’t agree, the people in 2Timothy 4:3 have endured sound doctrine...the verse says the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine. He’s being told in the verse 2 to preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction and then verse 3 that says there will be a time when they won’t endure it.
Well, that is really a different story about all the non Christians being lured by a false gospel, you can’t really say that they are in the faith or have ever been in the faith in that case. If, however they began as true born again Christians then that is who the verse would be talking about.
I don’t just have one or two verses...I have many verses that say the same things and a bunch of if’s that are alarming too. I can share that post I put together again if you’d like to read it?
But I am not writing to others, I am writing to you and asking you to look at the evidence I have and refute it. Not by adding the verses you think disprove it but by talking about those exact verses and how they don’t mean what they seem to me to mean. I mean really, if the Spirit explicitly says that people fall away but you tell me that verse doesn’t mean what I think it means when I take it literally, then tell me how that could possibly be in the context of that verse. Not by bringing some other verse into it.
Those verses don’t make Jesus out to be a monster. Just like God was not a monster in his dealings with the Israelites who weren’t promised that they had a forever salvation just because they were God’s chosen people. If it happened to them it can happen to you.
Romans 11:17-25
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
Well, I did pick one or two verses out of the many I have and said this is what they mean, because they are all saying the same things..if those verses say the same things, then how can you say that its not the correct exegesis?
Well, I think in the term of being backslidden, I take it to mean that you commit say one sin, I don’t think in terms of falling away that that’s what it means to fall away from the faith. We all stumble and we are all being sanctified so we make mistakes and learn...but if you aren’t pressing on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Jesus Christ, and you decide you’d much rather have an easier path and have those itchy ears...well then, you aren’t you then on the path towards falling away.
And for the record, the Bible tells us that people can fall away and the Bible also tells us what happens to those that do.
I must have been in a time in my life where I was convicted of my sins otherwise I couldn’t be saved right? So, I disagree with you there. I did like to bully my brothers when I was a kid and in fact I liked the peanuts character Lucy and thought that was the way to treat my brothers, if that’s what you are talking about. Perhaps you think that’s not the same as the sin you are talking about in your life but isn’t all sin bad and wrong to God? However, to be saved by God you would have had to know what you did was wrong at some point. Plus, I think you are not taking into consideration...
Romans 2:14-16
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
No one is immune to the effects of sin even if you are saved.
O, I’m sure that God will finish what He started if you remain in the faith. In fact Paul felt certain that would happen to the Philippians because he says “For it is only right for me to feel this way about you all, because I have you in my hearts, since both my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers of grace with me.” He believes they are because he believes they are partakers with him.
Hebrews 3:14
For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end.
God is working out our salvation but we are also told that we can fall away from the faith by the Holy Spirit, so you have to balance both those verses don’t ya think. That
if we indeed continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast...are we working for salvation then? And not moved away from the hope of the gospel that we have heard. Colossians 1:23
I don’t doubt that God did a wonderful work in your life...and maybe you have a point to my having a preconceived notion and that added to how I read your testimony. However it seems to me that believing that you are osas could have spurred you on to go back so thoroughly into your old life of sin, couldn’t it?
Because you seeemed to have taken that liberty yourself?
Edit: am sorry for the length, but I added other verses to back up my claim.
Edit again, I had to move this reply from accidentally putting it in another thread.
.
