Once Saved Always Saved?

[bible_student]

Never give up.

Isaiah
1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before Mine eyes; cease to do evil;
1:17 Learn to do well; seek Judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the "I AM": though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the "I AM" hath spoken [it].

Ezekiel
18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall DIE. The son shall not bear the inequity of the father, neither shall the father bear the inequity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all My Statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord "I AM": [and] not that he should return from his ways, and live?
18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth inequity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
18:25 Yet ye say, The Way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O "House of Israel"; Is not My Way equal? are not your ways unequal?
18:26 When a righteous [man] turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth inequity, and dieth in them; for his inequity that he hath done shall he die.
18:27 Again, when the wicked [man] turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
18:28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
18:29 Yet saith the "House of Israel", The Way of the Lord is not equal. O "House of Israel", are not My Ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O "House of Israel", every one according to his ways, saith the Lord "I AM". Repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so inequity shall not be your ruin.
18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O "House of Israel"?
18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord "I AM": wherefore turn [yourselves], and live ye.

33:1 Again the word of the "I AM" came unto me, saying,
33:2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:
33:3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
33:4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
33:5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take [any] person from among them, he is taken away in his inequity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
33:7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the "House of Israel"; therefore thou shalt hear the Word at My mouth, and warn them from Me.
33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked [man], thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked [man] shall die in his inequity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
33:9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his inequity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
33:10 Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the "House of Israel"; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins [be] upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?
33:11 Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord "I AM", I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O "House of Israel"?
33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his [righteousness] in the day that he sinneth.
33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, [that] he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit inequity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his inequity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
33:14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is Lawful and right;
33:15 [If] the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the Statutes of Life, without committing inequity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
33:16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is Lawful and right; he shall surely live.
33:17 Yet the children of thy people say, The Way of the "I AM" is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
33:18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth inequity, he shall even die thereby.
33:19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is Lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
33:20 Yet ye say, The Way of the Lord is not equal. O ye "House of Israel", I will judge you every one after his ways.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

The Way home or face The Fire 13:120 Once you are on God’s path, as long as you don’t give up, you are going to LIVE forever

 

[phipps]

I asked people what are we saved from ? Nobody cared to answer that...We are getting saved form eternal death nothing more nothing less...So it's not much. Many things can happen...
Im not in business of showing bible verses anymore. People take what they wan't from them and use it to support all sorts of nonsense.

That's right we are saved from eternal death but we have to start the process of being saved here and God has shown us how. There are conditions to to go to heaven. That is why He said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." Matthew 7:21. There is a lot more scripture like this that its hard to misunderstand the Bible on this subject. Obedience is one of the spiritual requirements for entrance into heaven to eternal life. The apostle John wrote, “there shall in no wise enter into it anything that defileth.” Revelation 21:27. It is sin that defiles. So no thieves, murderers, adulterers, etc. will enter heaven whether they professed to be Christ's or not. In order to be saved we have to stop wilfully sinning. We can only do it through Christ only.

You're not going to show me scripture that clearly says we can be saved without works? I think as Christians we should go to the source which is God's word because that is where we understand God from. If you make such a statement and can't back it up that is saying something and its not good.

 

[Vytas]

That's right we are saved from eternal death but we have to start the process of being saved here and God has shown us how. There are conditions to to go to heaven. That is why He said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." Matthew 7:21. There is a lot more scripture like this that its hard to misunderstand the Bible on this subject. Obedience is one of the spiritual requirements for entrance into heaven to eternal life. The apostle John wrote, “there shall in no wise enter into it anything that defileth.” Revelation 21:27. It is sin that defiles. So no thieves, murderers, adulterers, etc. will enter heaven whether they professed to be Christ's or not. In order to be saved we have to stop wilfully sinning. We can only do it through Christ only.

You're not going to show me scripture that clearly says we can be saved without works? I think as Christians we should go to the source which is God's word because that is where we understand God from. If you make such a statement and can't back it up that is saying something and its not good.

Being saved is not a process. Either you accept Jesus as your personal saviour or you don't.
MT 7:21 can be used in support of OSAS you know. As many preach faith but aren't even saved. Even in this forum...crazy i know...
Why do you think i can't ? I know my bible well enough for that. I simply won't...Did you ever changed your opinion about anything ? If you did please link it, i will become a believer then and give you verses, otherwise.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: making points , wining arguments,

 

[phipps]

Being saved is not a process. Either you accept Jesus as your personal saviour or you don't.
MT 7:21 can be used in support of OSAS you know. As many preach faith but aren't even saved. Even in this forum...crazy i know...
Why do you think i can't ? I know my bible well enough for that. I simply won't...Did you ever changed your opinion about anything ? If you did please link it, i will become a believer then and give you verses, otherwise.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: making points , wining arguments,

Being saved is not a process. Either you accept Jesus as your personal saviour or you don't.

Not according to the Bible. Being saved is a choice and a process. Its not a one time event. Its a process of being transformed into God's likeness through sanctification until Jesus returns. The process can be stopped and even reversed. That is why we have so many warnings in the Bible about what will happen if we don't obey, believe and accept Jesus as our personal Saviour. I have posted so many of those warnings on this forum. We should always seek righteousness daily. We need to daily re-confirm our choice to surrender our will, heart, mind and body to be conformed & transformed & re-created to have character like God.

MT 7:21 can be used in support of OSAS you know.

No it can't especially if they read the whole chapter. Verses 22-23 say, "Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ " We have to have to be saved and have faith and grow continually in Christ.

As many preach faith but aren't even saved. Even in this forum...crazy i know...Why do you think i can't ? I know my bible well enough for that.

Then we should pray for us all in this forum who have faith but aren't saved so that they can give their hearts to God. But God reads out hearts and knows who is saved and who isn't. We are anonymous here and its not really something you can tell just from reading one's posts.

Good for you for knowing your Bible but if you claim something and don't share the scripture from the source which is the Bible then its pointless to have discussions about God without proving it from His Word. You did not back up what you posted.

I simply won't...Did you ever changed your opinion about anything ?

I have changed my mind about many things in my life but if its not biblical I won't change my mind because God never changes His mind either. I'm at a point in my life where I don't compromise with the Word of God.

If you did please link it, i will become a believer then and give you verses, otherwise.

Lol this is immature. So because you can't back up what you said you've turned this around to make yourself seem better than me?
I haven't changed my mind on this forum yet because I haven't seen anything that God had led my mind to change my beliefs about. I'm also not here to prove myself to you or anyone else.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: making points , wining arguments,

Indeed, but you did not convict, correct on a point you made did you? This is not about winning an argument as you put in your small print, its about getting to understand the Word of God that is why I asked you for scripture to prove what you were saying. You refused to either because you couldn't or didn't want to.

 

[Lisa]

Not according to the Bible. Being saved is a choice and a process. Its not a one time event. Its a process of being transformed into God's likeness through sanctification until Jesus returns. The process can be stopped and even reversed.

This!

 

[Vytas]

Not according to the Bible. Being saved is a choice and a process. Its not a one time event. Its a process of being transformed into God's likeness through sanctification until Jesus returns. The process can be stopped and even reversed. That is why we have so many warnings in the Bible about what will happen if we don't obey, believe and accept Jesus as our personal Saviour. I have posted so many of those warnings on this forum. We should always seek righteousness daily. We need to daily re-confirm our choice to surrender our will, heart, mind and body to be conformed & transformed & re-created to have character like God.



No it can't especially if they read the whole chapter. Verses 22-23 say, "Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ " We have to have to be saved and have faith and grow continually in Christ.



Then we should pray for us all in this forum who have faith but aren't saved so that they can give their hearts to God. But God reads out hearts and knows who is saved and who isn't. We are anonymous here and its not really something you can tell just from reading one's posts.

Good for you for knowing your Bible but if you claim something and don't share the scripture from the source which is the Bible then its pointless to have discussions about God without proving it from His Word. You did not back up what you posted.



I have changed my mind about many things in my life but if its not biblical I won't change my mind because God never changes His mind either. I'm at a point in my life where I don't compromise with the Word of God.



Lol this is immature. So because you can't back up what you said you've turned this around to make yourself seem better than me?
I haven't changed my mind on this forum yet because I haven't seen anything that God had led my mind to change my beliefs about. I'm also not here to prove myself to you or anyone else.



Indeed, but you did not convict, correct on a point you made did you? This is not about winning an argument as you put in your small print, its about getting to understand the Word of God that is why I asked you for scripture to prove what you were saying. You refused to either becaue you couldn't or didn't want to.

Ok fair enough, thanks for lengthy answer...

Not according to the Bible. Being saved is a choice and a process. Its not a one time event. Its a process of being transformed into God's likeness through sanctification until Jesus returns. The process can be stopped and even reversed. That is why we have so many warnings in the Bible about what will happen if we don't obey, believe and accept Jesus as our personal Saviour. I have posted so many of those warnings on this forum. We should always seek righteousness daily. We need to daily re-confirm our choice to surrender our will, heart, mind and body to be conformed & transformed & re-created to have character like God.

Transforming happens after you are saved. After exact moment and not sooner. Process can be reversed and stopped, after all we are in spiritual battle. And enemy is clever, he is going to have some victories... But even when we backslide or do not bring fruit for a while. We are still saved. Realization that Jesus died for your sins isn't going anywhere once you understood it. You have to be malicious on purpose and really want to perish to undone whats done from godly agape.

No it can't especially if they read the whole chapter. Verses 22-23 say, "Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ " We have to have to be saved and have faith and grow continually in Christ.

For me emphasis here is on "i never knew you" , as a kid i used to think that Jesus is really harsh , even heartless here, people tried their best and he answers them like that. Now i know there is nothing harsh, Jesus simply states the fact, they don't know Him, He don't know them. There is a lack of personal relationship between those believers and him. And everyone who is born again has personal relationship with him, therefore this verse doesn't apply to them..

Then we should pray for us all in this forum who have faith but aren't saved so that they can give their hearts to God. But God reads out hearts and knows who is saved and who isn't. We are anonymous here and its not really something you can tell just from reading one's posts.

I could tell easily who is saved and who isn't. Similarly how we can feel how far advanced in their journey other christians are.

Good for you for knowing your Bible but if you claim something and don't share the scripture from the source which is the Bible then its pointless to have discussions about God without proving it from His Word. You did not back up what you posted.

Because it's counterproductive, i know you wont change your opinion...why should i work for half hour gathering bible verses ?

Lol this is immature. So because you can't back up what you said you've turned this around to make yourself seem better than me?
I haven't changed my mind on this forum yet because I haven't seen anything that God had led my mind to change my beliefs about. I'm also not here to prove myself to you or anyone else.

I am immature, quite the pleasure most of the time too... Im not better than you, never said or implied that...

Indeed, but you did not convict, correct on a point you made did you? This is not about winning an argument as you put in your small print, its about getting to understand the Word of God that is why I asked you for scripture to prove what you were saying. You refused to either becaue you couldn't or didn't want to.

I only answered to offer you another angle. You wan't to argue about it find someone else. Daciple perhaps ?

 

[Daciple]

Daciple perhaps ?

Lol he blocked me cuz I wrote the Truth about the False Prophet Ellen G White, and rejected many of the False Doctrines upheld in Seventh Day Adventism. One of them tied into the idea that you can lose your Salvation, which is called the Investigative Judgement.

IDK if you have heard of that Doctrine or saw what I wrote concerning it, but essentially the Doctrine teaches that Jesus Christ "moved from the Holy Place, to the Most Holy Place" in 1844 and then began to go thru all of History from Adam and Eve on and Judge each "Christian" to see if they have properly Repented of each Sin. If they had then they will be let into Heaven, if not then even tho they believe in Him and even may have lived to the best of their ability for Him, if they didnt Repent of all their Sins in this lifetime, they are cast into Hell.

So of course because he follows SDA he has a skewed ideology on Salvation and whether one can keep it by Faith Alone, or needs to have works. He is wrong on all accounts concerning his Doctrine on both the IJ and that we can Lose our Salvation.

As you know we can not lose it, it is forever secure in Christ and Christ by Grace thru Faith Alone. There is no working to keep it, just believe in your heart and you are Saved forever... Thats what the Bible declares over and over...

 

[Lisa]

Lol he blocked me cuz I wrote the Truth about the False Prophet Ellen G White, and rejected many of the False Doctrines upheld in Seventh Day Adventism. One of them tied into the idea that you can lose your Salvation, which is called the Investigative Judgement.

IDK if you have heard of that Doctrine or saw what I wrote concerning it, but essentially the Doctrine teaches that Jesus Christ "moved from the Holy Place, to the Most Holy Place" in 1844 and then began to go thru all of History from Adam and Eve on and Judge each "Christian" to see if they have properly Repented of each Sin. If they had then they will be let into Heaven, if not then even tho they believe in Him and even may have lived to the best of their ability for Him, if they didnt Repent of all their Sins in this lifetime, they are cast into Hell.

So of course because he follows SDA he has a skewed ideology on Salvation and whether one can keep it by Faith Alone, or needs to have works. He is wrong on all accounts concerning his Doctrine on both the IJ and that we can Lose our Salvation.

As you know we can not lose it, it is forever secure in Christ and Christ by Grace thru Faith Alone. There is no working to keep it, just believe in your heart and you are Saved forever... Thats what the Bible declares over and over...

Perhaps he just got tired of your mountains of words?

 

[Daciple]

Perhaps he just got tired of your mountains of words?

Well that is not what he said, but maybe you are projecting?

 

[Lisa]

Well that is not what he said, but maybe you are projecting?

I know I am tired of your mountains of words, yes. But I thought maybe he was also, I didn’t know he gave a reason, haha maybe you mentioned it in that mountain of words you posted earlier? I got bored after the first couple of words.

 

[Daciple]

I know I am tired of your mountains of words, yes. But I thought maybe he was also, I didn’t know he gave a reason, haha maybe you mentioned it in that mountain of words you posted earlier? I got bored after the first couple of words.

Aww, I am sorry you dont enjoy discussions with people who are willing to take the time to thoroughly explain their point of view.

I personally find it funny that you in particular have a problem, when a few pages ago you basically called me out for not being through enough in my response on this subject. However once I gave an in depth response then all the sudden, "you get bored after the first couple of words".

Sounds like someone who cant give a detailed explanation in rebuttal so they have some lame excuse as to why they dont want to engage in the debate. Oh well, regardless just know that you are forever assured of your Salvation if you have had that Born Again Experience!!

 

[Vytas]

Lol he blocked me cuz I wrote the Truth about the False Prophet Ellen G White, and rejected many of the False Doctrines upheld in Seventh Day Adventism. One of them tied into the idea that you can lose your Salvation, which is called the Investigative Judgement.

IDK if you have heard of that Doctrine or saw what I wrote concerning it, but essentially the Doctrine teaches that Jesus Christ "moved from the Holy Place, to the Most Holy Place" in 1844 and then began to go thru all of History from Adam and Eve on and Judge each "Christian" to see if they have properly Repented of each Sin. If they had then they will be let into Heaven, if not then even tho they believe in Him and even may have lived to the best of their ability for Him, if they didnt Repent of all their Sins in this lifetime, they are cast into Hell.

So of course because he follows SDA he has a skewed ideology on Salvation and whether one can keep it by Faith Alone, or needs to have works. He is wrong on all accounts concerning his Doctrine on both the IJ and that we can Lose our Salvation.

As you know we can not lose it, it is forever secure in Christ and Christ by Grace thru Faith Alone. There is no working to keep it, just believe in your heart and you are Saved forever... Thats what the Bible declares over and over...

I read yours back and forth with him , thats why I offered you

 

[Lisa]

Aww, I am sorry you dont enjoy discussions with people who are willing to take the time to thoroughly explain their point of view.

I personally find it funny that you in particular have a problem, when a few pages ago you basically called me out for not being through enough in my response on this subject. However once I gave an in depth response then all the sudden, "you get bored after the first couple of words".

Sounds like someone who cant give a detailed explanation in rebuttal so they have some lame excuse as to why they dont want to engage in the debate. Oh well, regardless just know that you are forever assured of your Salvation if you have had that Born Again Experience!!

I called you out for not reading my reply, not for not being thorough enough in yours.
I think it has more to do that I don’t want to take the time to read your mountain of words only to be confronted by another mountain and another mountain. At that point it all just morphs into blah, blah blah.

 

[Daciple]

I called you out for not reading my reply, not for not being thorough enough in yours.
I think it has more to do that I don’t want to take the time to read your mountain of words only to be confronted by another mountain and another mountain. At that point it all just morphs into blah, blah blah.

To each their own Lisa, and I read your reply and responded in turn, of which you said I didnt use enough Scripture to back up my point, so then I proceeded to lay out a response as emotionless and as full of Scripture as I could, like you literally asked me to.

And of course you had a problem with that as well, I rather enjoy discussions with you or anyone honestly, but if you dont want to have a discourse then IDK dont call me out maybe?

Regardless of you personal objections with my writing style, I dont write for you, I write for those who may be seeking to understand these topics better, I would rather lay out as much information as I can about them, than leave that person with less knowledge.

You probably stopped reading after the first 2 words, but its all Good, I still Love You and hope one day you rest in assurance of your Salvation in Christ, like He wants you too!!

 

[Lisa]

To each their own Lisa, and I read your reply and responded in turn, of which you said I didnt use enough Scripture to back up my point, so then I proceeded to lay out a response as emotionless and as full of Scripture as I could, like you literally asked me to.

And of course you had a problem with that as well, I rather enjoy discussions with you or anyone honestly, but if you dont want to have a discourse then IDK dont call me out maybe?

Regardless of you personal objections with my writing style, I dont write for you, I write for those who may be seeking to understand these topics better, I would rather lay out as much information as I can about them, than leave that person with less knowledge.

You probably stopped reading after the first 2 words, but its all Good, I still Love You and hope one day you rest in assurance of your Salvation in Christ, like He wants you too!!

Thanks, but I don’t really enjoy reading your mountains of words, sorry. It really puts me off wanting to converse with you.

I am assured that I am saved, if I remain in Him. Its the one little if you have to pay attention to. And of course 1 Timothy, but lets not go there, I’m sure I won’t be able to get through your reply.

 

[Daciple]

Thanks, but I don’t really enjoy reading your mountains of words, sorry.

Then stop responding to me? Not too hard there Lisa.

I am assured that I am saved, if I remain in Him. Its the one little if you have to pay attention to. And of course 1 Timothy, but lets not go there, I’m sure I won’t be able to get through your reply.

Right because unless a response is 140 characters or less its too much for you to read or comprehend I suppose.

And why bring up verses to try and start a debate then cry when people answer you? Just stop quoting me lol

 

[Lisa]

Just stop quoting me

You got it!

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Amazing, throughly moved, thank you for sharing, that was a blessing!

When people have these experiences, they will know they are saved forever.

My Pastor preached a message tonight from this passage:

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

His message focused on stirring up your pure minds in remembrance, and he lead with our Salvation Experience. When things are hard, times are rough, and we find ourselves in doubt, even about our Salvation as can happen, we need to keep in mind God's Promises and our Salvation Experience.

II couldn't imagine being someone that believes they can lose their Salvation and have no Salvation Experience, I don't believe God wants us to continually doubt our Salvation. I've been down that road and it's miserable, why would God not want to give us assurance about our destination with Him?

I am sure there have been days you've dealt with full of doubts, but I know when it comes down to it, you can go back to that night, go back in remembrance and God brings you Peace and Joy in assurance of your Salvation!

Thanks again for sharing, God is amazing to give you such a powerful testimony, Praise His Name!

Thank you for the kind words.

It really is about faith.

One of the most amazing things about God is that when He answers prayers, He does so in a way that you KNOW it was Him.

Like when I found the green spiral in my brother’s closet. That was NOT THERE before. Nobody in my family had ever seen it and my Mom cleared out his room & closet completely and vacuumed it from ceiling to floor.

There is literally NO OTHER explanation how it got there.

Finding that notebook and reading those entries confirmed that my brother had gotten saved, which brought me so much relief to know that I would see him again.

It transformed my heart, allowing me to forgive my brother’s murderers, and I went from wanting to murder them to praying for their salvation.

I could never have done that without the peace instilled in me by God.

It is His mercy, forbearance & forgiveness that continues to amaze me.

He is absolutely perfect, and I wish everyone would get saved so they could know Him.

 

[Daciple]

So I was reading from Ephesians at lunch today and I as reading it all I can see in the Scriptures is Assurance of Salvation in Christ. I wonder how people who reject that our Salvation is Assured by Faith in Christ interpret and read these passages?

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

According to these verses, those of us who are Saved, were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World, He knew that we would accept Him and be Saved, and thus has predestinated us to be adopted because of Christ and in Christ.

It also says it is His Will that this was done and that He, God, has made, not will make, not possibly make, but past tense has made us accepted, in Christ.

That seems pretty definitive that those who are Saved, the ones that Truly Believe on and in Christ, they were KNOWN before the foundation of the world and that it is Gods good pleasure and His Will that we be adopted as Children in Christ. Those who believe we can lose our Salvation dont seem to understand the massive implications of adoption and the legal status surrounding it.

Essentially someone is more legally bound to children that are adopted than they are their own flesh, and it is next to impossible to disown a child that is adopted. I dont believe its of coincidence that we are named as being adopted in and thru Christ back to the Father. This language conveys purposefully the idea that God has entered into a legal contract with us as adopted children from which He Himself wouldnt or even cant disown us. Just think how often the Old Testament speaks of legal transactions concerning Israel, and concerning heirs. Even the entire ideology of a Covenant is based upon legal transactions. So its of no light manner that God has it in His Word that we have been adopted by Him, into a legal "purchase" of which there is no ability to reject or return.

Furthermore in Ephesians from the same chapter is this:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Again these are definitive statements declarations, we HAVE obtained, not might, not possibly, but HAVE past tense obtained, because we were predestined, not because of what we have done or will do but why and how were we predestined? By the purpose of God, who works all things after His will, for the reason that we are the praise of His Glory, why? Because we trusted in Christ.

Do any of you see room for your own personal works in these verses? Do any of you see where our works can even slightly cause us to lose that which God predestined to obtain because of His purpose and His will?

The next few verses go even more to speak to an absolute irrevocable action that has taken place, an absolute assurance that has happened when we are Born Again.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So many absolute and eternal and unbreakable promises concerning the securing of our Salvation by God and Christ thru Faith in just these 2 verses alone. It is saying that once we have trusted and believed on the Truth and the Gospel of Salvation, we WERE sealed, not will be sealed, not possibly might, but WERE as in past tense, the moment of Salvation, sealed with the Holy Spirit.

What does a seal mean to all of you that reject that we have been Eternally Saved when we first believed? Is the language of sealing meant to describe something that is going to be lost? What do you think Paul had in mind when he penned these words?

I believe that Paul had in mind the idea of envelopes which in those times were sealed with a specific seal, a marker and there was always one seal that was created and used by dignitaries when sending letters to or from or for the King. These seals were NEVER to be opened by anyone other than to whom it was sent, in other words if you sent a letter as a dignitary to the King it would be marked and sealed and PRESERVED and ONLY the King could open it. To do otherwise would result in your death.

The Holy Spirit is our SEAL from God, we have been marked and sealed and just as in times past that Seal contained 4 elements, Security, Authenticity, Ownership, and Authority. When a letter was sealed it was sealed to preserve and bring security from whomever sent it, to whomever received it. It was a guarantee that no one had read or forged what was contained in the envelope, the receiver was secure that what they received was not tampered with and the sender was assured what he sent was received properly. The Holy Spirit is our assurance from God, that we will be delivered just as He asked which is Justified in Righteousness by Faith in Christ.

The Holy Spirit also shows that we have been Authentically marked by God, that we are owned by God and have His Authority over our lives. These seals are something written to convey an Eternal and Inherent aspect of our Salvation and in dwelling of the Holy Spirit.

And the next verse is the ultimate promise that we who are Saved ought to rest in, because it states that the Holy Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. What does that mean?

It means that the Holy Spirit is the down payment God put down UNTIL He comes and gets us. We are the purchased possession, and again that is PAST TENSE. If you have the Holy Spirit then it means God has completely and totally purchased you, you are now His and He has given us the Holy Spirit to hold our place essentially until the time comes that He either calls us Home or comes back and gets us.

These verses are written to specifically show that Salvation is a transaction that is Non Refundable, that has in Gods eyes already been completed and has ZERO to do with our Works. If it has nothing to do with us, if the transaction is 100% completed and He has stated it is His will that we be adopted, taken, redeemed, unto Him, ONLY because of our Faith, then how possibly can it be Lost?

The answer is it can not. I hope whomever it was that was asking others if they can lose their Salvation reads this and the other posts from those who understand the Truth. If you have been Born Again, if you believe in Christ and have received the Holy Spirit, then the transaction is 100% completed, the Holy Spirit has sealed you and signifies that you are 100% owned by God and He is here for one reason to assure you of your Salvation until that day comes that God picks up what He put the downpayment on which is your Perfected Soul washed in the Blood of Christ.

I would love to see how those who believe they can lose Salvation interpret all of these verses?

What I always notice in this debate, is that those who believe that Salvation is Eternal are able to answer the questions and Scriptures used by the other side of the argument. Such as when someone quotes a passage as a Proof Text that Salvation can be Lost, those who know it can not, are able to interpret and then give an explanation as to why that passage isnt really a Proof Text for the ability to Lose Salvation.

However I hardly ever see the other side being able to interpret or contextualize the Proof Texts we bring and merit it out with the idea that Salvation can be Lost. How can Ephesians 1 be read in a manner in which Salvation is dependent on our Works or can be Lost?

I cant see it, all I see is Promise after Promise of our Salvation being Eternally Secured and given to us by Faith thru Grace Alone...

 

[Dalit]

So I was reading from Ephesians at lunch today and I as reading it all I can see in the Scriptures is Assurance of Salvation in Christ. I wonder how people who reject that our Salvation is Assured by Faith in Christ interpret and read these passages?

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

According to these verses, those of us who are Saved, were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World, He knew that we would accept Him and be Saved, and thus has predestinated us to be adopted because of Christ and in Christ.

It also says it is His Will that this was done and that He, God, has made, not will make, not possibly make, but past tense has made us accepted, in Christ.

That seems pretty definitive that those who are Saved, the ones that Truly Believe on and in Christ, they were KNOWN before the foundation of the world and that it is Gods good pleasure and His Will that we be adopted as Children in Christ. Those who believe we can lose our Salvation dont seem to understand the massive implications of adoption and the legal status surrounding it.

Essentially someone is more legally bound to children that are adopted than they are their own flesh, and it is next to impossible to disown a child that is adopted. I dont believe its of coincidence that we are named as being adopted in and thru Christ back to the Father. This language conveys purposefully the idea that God has entered into a legal contract with us as adopted children from which He Himself wouldnt or even cant disown us. Just think how often the Old Testament speaks of legal transactions concerning Israel, and concerning heirs. Even the entire ideology of a Covenant is based upon legal transactions. So its of no light manner that God has it in His Word that we have been adopted by Him, into a legal "purchase" of which there is no ability to reject or return.

Furthermore in Ephesians from the same chapter is this:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Again these are definitive statements declarations, we HAVE obtained, not might, not possibly, but HAVE past tense obtained, because we were predestined, not because of what we have done or will do but why and how were we predestined? By the purpose of God, who works all things after His will, for the reason that we are the praise of His Glory, why? Because we trusted in Christ.

Do any of you see room for your own personal works in these verses? Do any of you see where our works can even slightly cause us to lose that which God predestined to obtain because of His purpose and His will?

The next few verses go even more to speak to an absolute irrevocable action that has taken place, an absolute assurance that has happened when we are Born Again.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So many absolute and eternal and unbreakable promises concerning the securing of our Salvation by God and Christ thru Faith in just these 2 verses alone. It is saying that once we have trusted and believed on the Truth and the Gospel of Salvation, we WERE sealed, not will be sealed, not possibly might, but WERE as in past tense, the moment of Salvation, sealed with the Holy Spirit.

What does a seal mean to all of you that reject that we have been Eternally Saved when we first believed? Is the language of sealing meant to describe something that is going to be lost? What do you think Paul had in mind when he penned these words?

I believe that Paul had in mind the idea of envelopes which in those times were sealed with a specific seal, a marker and there was always one seal that was created and used by dignitaries when sending letters to or from or for the King. These seals were NEVER to be opened by anyone other than to whom it was sent, in other words if you sent a letter as a dignitary to the King it would be marked and sealed and PRESERVED and ONLY the King could open it. To do otherwise would result in your death.

The Holy Spirit is our SEAL from God, we have been marked and sealed and just as in times past that Seal contained 4 elements, Security, Authenticity, Ownership, and Authority. When a letter was sealed it was sealed to preserve and bring security from whomever sent it, to whomever received it. It was a guarantee that no one had read or forged what was contained in the envelope, the receiver was secure that what they received was not tampered with and the sender was assured what he sent was received properly. The Holy Spirit is our assurance from God, that we will be delivered just as He asked which is Justified in Righteousness by Faith in Christ.

The Holy Spirit also shows that we have been Authentically marked by God, that we are owned by God and have His Authority over our lives. These seals are something written to convey an Eternal and Inherent aspect of our Salvation and in dwelling of the Holy Spirit.

And the next verse is the ultimate promise that we who are Saved ought to rest in, because it states that the Holy Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. What does that mean?

It means that the Holy Spirit is the down payment God put down UNTIL He comes and gets us. We are the purchased possession, and again that is PAST TENSE. If you have the Holy Spirit then it means God has completely and totally purchased you, you are now His and He has given us the Holy Spirit to hold our place essentially until the time comes that He either calls us Home or comes back and gets us.

These verses are written to specifically show that Salvation is a transaction that is Non Refundable, that has in Gods eyes already been completed and has ZERO to do with our Works. If it has nothing to do with us, if the transaction is 100% completed and He has stated it is His will that we be adopted, taken, redeemed, unto Him, ONLY because of our Faith, then how possibly can it be Lost?

The answer is it can not. I hope whomever it was that was asking others if they can lose their Salvation reads this and the other posts from those who understand the Truth. If you have been Born Again, if you believe in Christ and have received the Holy Spirit, then the transaction is 100% completed, the Holy Spirit has sealed you and signifies that you are 100% owned by God and He is here for one reason to assure you of your Salvation until that day comes that God picks up what He put the downpayment on which is your Perfected Soul washed in the Blood of Christ.

I would love to see how those who believe they can lose Salvation interpret all of these verses?

What I always notice in this debate, is that those who believe that Salvation is Eternal are able to answer the questions and Scriptures used by the other side of the argument. Such as when someone quotes a passage as a Proof Text that Salvation can be Lost, those who know it can not, are able to interpret and then give an explanation as to why that passage isnt really a Proof Text for the ability to Lose Salvation.

However I hardly ever see the other side being able to interpret or contextualize the Proof Texts we bring and merit it out with the idea that Salvation can be Lost. How can Ephesians 1 be read in a manner in which Salvation is dependent on our Works or can be Lost?

I cant see it, all I see is Promise after Promise of our Salvation being Eternally Secured and given to us by Faith thru Grace Alone...

(standing ovation)