Were religions the first propagators of Fake News?

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Are you okay to say that parents are responsible of their children and should protect them?
If yes, why they refused to protect their children after many warnings ?

Because they refuse to believe God's instructions.
Yes or no?
Thanks for deflecting now answer the question I posed so that we might continue.

If you are not up to that simple task, then tell me, if you murder someone, am I justified in punishing your child?

That is what you are trying to condone and are not man enough to be honest with us.

Typical Christian hypocrisy, or you just do not have the intelligence to carry on a decent dialog.

Regards
DL
 

Red Sky at Morning

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A divinely inspired man who came to show people the true path and who’s message was later revised and hidden by the church that claims to worship him.
Expanding on that a bit, what true path or true things do you think the account of Jesus we have now contains?
 

Wigi

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If I warn my child not to touch a hot stove and they choose to do it anyway they are responsible for the damage, that’s correct. However, if I see them trying to touch the hot stove and do nothing to prevent them from doing so I’m an asshole and a shitty mom.
Your premise is 'God should prevent all harm caused by mankind.'

What makes you think that God did nothing to prevent them to get hurt?


Edit

You said
In your opinion.

And I reject that opinion based on what I said above and many additional things that are pointless to even list since you and any other bible believer here won’t listen to them anyway.
Theistic Satanists arguably disagree with your reasoning but why not.

In fact I'm listening what you're saying and, I think, I haven't read your definition of a good God in a fallen creation where sin is the norm and mankind proved himself to be selfish and violent.
 
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justjess

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I believe Pharaoh hardened his own heart a number of times first. In Hebrew the word translated “hardened” means “strengthened” which speaks to me of God giving him over to the decisions he had made, and would continue to make.

If your heart is not entirely “strengthened” against the Gospel, you have time and hope, if not you are following Pharaoh, something you were never created for, and warned against.
If pharaoh hardened his own heart that was his free will. If god gave us free will then removes it to serve his own purpose what exactly is the point of it at all?

If pharaoh hardened his own heart there was no reason for the Bible to explicitly point out that god hardened it himself. From what I recall pharaoh was at the point of conceding, softening his heart so to speak, when god hardened it that last time creating his own justification for his horrendous actions which still ARENT JUSTIFIED since he elsewhere professed the sins of the father would not be taken out on their children.

There are way too many issues with this whole story. And prior to my five year old son showing me them I was a professed practicing Catholic who never read the Bible because I was secure and happy with the teachings of my church. My sons reaction to this story, prompted me to actually read the Bible which entirely and completely changed my outlook on everything. From the mouths of babes.
 
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That is an assertion rather than a self evident truth. On a human level, you could put a serial killer to death yet fail to take the hatred out of his heart that led to those murders.
That god is is an assertion that you make often. This idiocy aside.

Again you limit your limitless god and even compare him to man.

Regards
DL
 

justjess

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Expanding on that a bit, what true path or true things do you think the account of Jesus we have now contains?
Love.

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
It isn’t complicated. Man makes it complicated himself.
 

Mr.Anderson

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Regarding the first question of the topic

The cavemen before the dawn of civilization heard the thunder:
*KABOOM*
It must have been the gods again.
After a while Gronk comes hurt from the hunt
He tells a half assed story about how he killed a bunch of rival tribesmen when in reality he had just tripped over a rock.

So, was religion the first source of fake news, fraud or wathever? In my humble opinion nope because these existed before any religion existed in an organized sense beyond simple beliefs.

I mean, some guard muskrats cry wolf so they can eat a bit more food. It's not na exclusive behavior to humans.
 

Wigi

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Thanks for deflecting now answer the question I posed so that we might continue.

If you are not up to that simple task, then tell me, if you murder someone, am I justified in punishing your child?

That is what you are trying to condone and are not man enough to be honest with us.
The problem with your question is your belief that disobeying God or sinning in other words should have zero consequences according to.. human standards.

Is it evil to murder someone ? Yes absolutely.
Is it evil for God to judge wickedness?
No.

If yes, i'm asking you to explain why God shouldn't judge anything at all and let people do what they want to do despite warnings.

I'm open for a debate.
 
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The problem with your question is the belief that disobeying God or sinnning in other words should have zero consequences according to.. human standards.

Is it evil to murder someone ? Yes absolutely.
Is it evil for God to judge wickedness?
No.

If yes, i'm asking you to explain why God shouldn't judge anything at all and let people do what they want to do despite warnings.

I'm open for a debate.

Why is God ok with some “wicked” things like slavery and war and genocide, but demands death for something as minor as homosexuality?
 

justjess

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Every time this particular story is brought up by skeptics it always leads to the same conclusion that is often correct in some basic sense (i.e., 'we should not want to worship a vengeful God who -- maliciously--slaughters innocent children instead of the guilty party'), but the reasoning which leads up to the conclusion that this applies to the biblical God is flawed. In other words, their ethics are okay, but their understanding of the historical and philosophical situation is inaccurate.

And--very often--the terms they use to describe the situation are imprecise, and need more refinement and clarity. Nuances and emotional overtones can be seriously misleading.

For example, "vengeful" to a modern reader sounds like someone is consumed by and/or enslaved to a revenge-centered passion. But to the biblical participant, 'vengeance' is strictly a 'passion for true justice--both social and ethical'. And take "innocent". This word suggests that there is somehow a 'merit' issue involved--that only "guilty" people should be forced to die before they "get old". It suggests (via nuance or connotation) that there should be a linear correlation between life span and morality, when even the Bible consistently points out that the 'wicked' often live long, satisfying lives--at the expense of the righteous and/or poor. It suggests that God is somehow "obligated" to keep everyone alive to some statistical average age. Or that the countless children who have died from natural causes in infancy or in minority over the millennia were somehow 'wronged' by God--in spite of their innocence. We feel grief and violation and shock and a sense of imbalance/injustice when such occurs, but there is no solid logic for believing that a breach of ethics has occurred. God expresses grief about even judgments on the wicked when death or tragedy is inflicted on them in His judgment--even when we might not (See His weeping over His judgment on Moab in Jeremiah 48:29-33).

So, we must attempt a clarity of vocabulary and argument to avoid the extremes of either inflammatory slander or facile justifications (like referring to God as a "genocidal son-murdering prick for example).

Firstly, this wasn't a "genocide" of the Egyptians first borns.
Moses said, “Thus says the Lord: About midnight I will go out through Egypt. 5 Every firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sits on his throne to the firstborn of the female slave who is behind the handmill, and all the firstborn of the livestock. 6 Then there will be a loud cry throughout the whole land of Egypt, such as has never been or will ever be again. 7 But not a dog shall growl at any of the Israelites—not at people, not at animals—so that you may know that the Lord makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel. 8 Then all these officials of yours shall come down to me, and bow low to me, saying, ‘Leave us, you and all the people who follow you.’ After that I will leave.” And in hot anger he left Pharaoh.

Strictly speaking, God's action on that first Passover night was somehow/strangely impartial. When He judged Egypt, he somehow did something 'analogous' to Israel. This tenth plague is a last resort by God, to overthrow the Pharaoh-led (and hence, divinely-sanctioned under Egyptian theology) oppression of the Israelites. There are nine+ earlier messages to Egypt to abandon their systematic oppression (plus the additional sign given at the beginning, duplicated in some way by the Egyptian magicians).

All of the plagues/disasters/blows to Egypt were designed to subvert the moral and theological justifications of the use of Pharaonic power/authority against the Israelites. This can be seen from the texture of the plagues: they were deliberate challenges to many of the Egyptian deities (one of whom was Pharaoh himself), demonstrating their powerlessness and unreality. Even the choosing the 'firstborn' motif fits into this texture. This would also witness to the superiority of God to the Egyptian people -this was not a mere petty slight by God. As with everything He does, it had purposes that far extended the basic surface reading most do when confronted with the Genesis story.
You’d make a fantastic defense lawyer, but sorry I’m not swayed. All the explanations ever do is offer half assed justifications without resolving the inconsistencies in nature and willingness to break his own edicts.

“He who has ears to hear, let him hear”
 

justjess

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In the context of love, which 1 Corinthians 13 expressed so powerfully, do you acknowledge holiness (even as an ideal attribute) or embrace dualism instead?
You will have to further explain your question, I’m sorry.

I’m trying to answer you but I do feel like you are perhaps unintentionally making the things I said more complicated then they actually are.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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If pharaoh hardened his own heart that was his free will. If god gave us free will then removes it to serve his own purpose what exactly is the point of it at all?

If pharaoh hardened his own heart there was no reason for the Bible to explicitly point out that god hardened it himself. From what I recall pharaoh was at the point of conceding, softening his heart so to speak, when god hardened it that last time creating his own justification for his horrendous actions which still ARENT JUSTIFIED since he elsewhere professed the sins of the father would not be taken out on their children.

There are way too many issues with this whole story. And prior to my five year old son showing me them I was a professed practicing Catholic who never read the Bible because I was secure and happy with the teachings of my church. My sons reaction to this story, prompted me to actually read the Bible which entirely and completely changed my outlook on everything. From the mouths of babes.
I sense that was a pivotal conversation and one worth returning to?

It occurs to me that God possesses attributes that we do not. Given that, I suspect that He knows what we would do in any given situation (without being responsible for that choice). In the context you cite, it appears that God knew Pharaoh’s heart and knew that if he had been offered a thousand chances, he would not have changed course. We only see from the outside of that heart and read that Pharaoh was strengthened in the course he had chosen.

You have no doubt had many conversations along these lines and I genuinely pray that while there is time, something happens that makes you reconsider the God who made you and paid for you.

In the words of the l’Oreal advert, as He sees you “You’re worth it!”

God bless you @justjess
 
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You’d make a fantastic defense lawyer, but sorry I’m not swayed. All the explanations ever do is offer half assed justifications without resolving the inconsistencies in nature and willingness to break his own edicts.

“He who has ears to hear, let him hear”

I don’t think their defense was very good, semantical games, and their comparison of children dying from disease or war to the deliberate actions of The Supreme Being is laughable.
 

justjess

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Your premise is 'God should prevent all harm caused by mankind.'

What makes you think that God did nothing to prevent them to get hurt?


Edit

You said


Theistic Satanists arguably disagree with your reasoning but why not.

In fact I'm listening what you're saying and, I think, I haven't read your definition of a good God in a fallen creation where sin is the norm and mankind proved himself to be selfish and violent.
I do not agree with your conception of a fallen creation therefore I can not answer your question. However the nature of god should not differ based on the nature of man. That is reactionary and beneath god.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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You will have to further explain your question, I’m sorry.

I’m trying to answer you but I do feel like you are perhaps unintentionally making the things I said more complicated then they actually are.
In the measure to which “God is love”, do you feel the claim that “God is holy” represents Him equally well?
 
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