Were religions the first propagators of Fake News?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

It was evil because God warned him and proved He didn't lie?
Is it evil for God to judge people in accordance to their actions ? If you can explain by what standard judgement is evil even after many warnings, I would like to hear your explanations.

??

Where in this story did god judge or warn the children he murdered?

Regards
DL

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Your ideology begins by saying that god is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways.

All that is said of god after that is obviously a lie.

Regards
DL

So you conclude that a true God should have your own limited human attributes? You are a confusing guy!

 

[justjess]

Ok @justjess - so we are all being open and honest, if there is a god you believe in...

1: What attributes does he/she/it possess?

2: What attributes commonly associated with a Judeo-Christian understanding to you reject? (E.g. omnipotence, eternality, holiness, omnipresence etc)

Thanks

P.s. don’t feel you have to get back to me right away but I would be genuinely interested in your response.

I believe in an impersonal god. It isn’t that complicated. A god/creator that is not invested in our petty human squabbles. The alternative is nonsensical and logically inconsistant. You can not be loving and forgiving and vengeful and spiteful and petty at the same time. You can not be above all human needs - omniscient, all powerful, eternally - and still bound by trivial human ego basing everything and anything on someone’s willingness to bow to you. I don’t reject god is any of the things you listed, only the idea that he can be all those things and still involved in the personal lives of his creation as the Bible claims he js.

You mean like how Pharaoh had ordered all newborn baby boys be thrown into the Nile?

The pharaoh is human and bound by human traits, god is not human and supposed to be above all that.

This is the problem with man creating god in his own image.

 

[justjess]

What makes you innocent before God :
Obedience or rebellion?



That's why He gave signs.



You're free to listen the warnings. If you refuse you're the only one who gets hurt.


Indeed God can heal the sick but some people refuse to be healed and/or refuse peace.

Are you saying that a good God need to deny your right to make choices in accordance to your will and force you to behave in a way that is considered good according to Him?

If I warn my child not to touch a hot stove and they choose to do it anyway they are responsible for the damage, that’s correct. However, if I see them trying to touch the hot stove and do nothing to prevent them from doing so I’m an asshole and a shitty mom.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I believe in an impersonal god. It isn’t that complicated. A god/creator that is not invested in our petty human squabbles. The alternative is nonsensical and logically inconsistant. You can not be loving and forgiving and vengeful and spiteful and petty at the same time. You can not be above all human needs - omniscient, all powerful, eternally - and still bound by trivial human ego basing everything and anything on someone’s willingness to bow to you. I don’t reject god is any of the things you listed, only the idea that he can be all those things and still involved in the personal lives of his creation as the Bible claims he js.



The pharaoh is human and bound by human traits, god is not human and supposed to be above all that.

This is the problem with man creating god in his own image.

Would you say then that the Muslim concept of Allah is closer the the nature of the god you believe in? Not judging, just asking?

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

What makes you innocent before God :
Obedience or rebellion?

You seem to have a reading comprehension problem both in the last response I gave and this one by you not knowing which characters you are speaking and talking about.

I was talking of Jesus who was innocent yet punish for the guilty which goes against the Jewish laws Jesus said he came to fulfill. I quoted those above.

Regards
DL

 

[Wigi]

??

Where in this story did god judge or warn the children he murdered?

Regards
DL

Are you okay to say that parents are responsible of their children and should protect them?
If yes, why they refused to protect their children after many warnings ?

Because they refuse to believe God's instructions.
Yes or no?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Are these just edicts?
Did god live up to their standards of excellence?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The sonshall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquityof the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and thewickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put todeath because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because oftheir fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Regards
DL

The only way those concepts can be reconciled in the atonement are within the Trinity, a concept which I believe you reject?

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Are you saying that a good God need to deny your right to make choices in accordance to your will and force you to behave in a way that is considered good according to Him?

If god can ignore a souls will to live and force a soul against it's will to die, he can force it it other more moral ways.

Regards
DL

 

[Wigi]

I believe in an impersonal god. It isn’t that complicated. A god/creator that is not invested in our petty human squabbles. The alternative is nonsensical and logically inconsistant. You can not be loving and forgiving and vengeful and spiteful and petty at the same time. You can not be above all human needs - omniscient, all powerful, eternally - and still bound by trivial human ego basing everything and anything on someone’s willingness to bow to you. I don’t reject god is any of the things you listed, only the idea that he can be all those things and still involved in the personal lives of his creation as the Bible claims he js.



The pharaoh is human and bound by human traits, god is not human and supposed to be above all that.

This is the problem with man creating god in his own image.

God is involved in this life just like Satan and his angels. We're born in the middle of a spiritual battlefield

 

[justjess]

Would you say then that the Muslim concept of Allah is closer the the nature of the god you believe in? Not judging, just asking?

I have not studied Islam enough to even remotely say. I do see some parts of Islam that I agree with, just as there are some aspects of Christianity and Judaism I agree with. I think there is some truth in all religion but most is clouded to deceive us.

But I will make this clear, I do not believe Mohammed to be a prophet so whether Islam lines up more closely or not I would never follow it since I reject Mohammed. I do not reject Jesus. I just differ in opinion over what exactly he was.

 

[Wigi]

If god can ignore a souls will to live and force a soul against it's will to die, he can force it it other more moral ways.

Regards
DL

It doesn't work like that :

"But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul; All those who hate me love death."
Proverbs 8:36

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

You mean like how Pharaoh had ordered all newborn baby boys be thrown into the Nile?

Correct. If you see the injustice in that, why can you not see the same injustice when your god does it?

Regards
DL

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

If god can ignore a souls will to live and force a soul against it's will to die, he can force it it other more moral ways.

Regards
DL

That is an assertion rather than a self evident truth. On a human level, you could put a serial killer to death yet fail to take the hatred out of his heart that led to those murders.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I have not studied Islam enough to even remotely say. I do see some parts of Islam that I agree with, just as there are some aspects of Christianity and Judaism I agree with. I think there is some truth in all religion but most is clouded to deceive us.

But I will make this clear, I do not believe Mohammed to be a prophet so whether Islam lines up more closely or not I would never follow it since I reject Mohammed. I do not reject Jesus. I just differ in opinion over what exactly he was.

I believe this is the first real conversation we have had Jess! Who do you think Jesus really was?

 

[justjess]

Are you okay to say that parents are responsible of their children and should protect them?
If yes, why they refused to protect their children after many warnings ?

Because they refuse to believe God's instructions.
Yes or no?

God hardened pharaohs heart so he would not listen. It literally and clearly says it right there in the Bible.

Even if he did not - god can not say in one breath that the sins of the father will not belong to their children and then in the very next kill children for their fathers sins.

 

[justjess]

So God should have let the 400 years of subjugation and slaughter of their sons go without any response?

He could have struck down the pharaoh or the actual people who did this, atleast that would have made sense with his own edicts.

Or alternatively he could have been the forgiving god he claims to be and let Israel leave without vengeance.

Or he could have ensured they were never stuck their to begin with.

The fact that you fail to see other acceptable options and scenarios says more about you than it does about me. And actually says more about you and human kind than it does about god.

 

[justjess]

God is involved in this life just like Satan and his angels. We're born in the middle of a spiritual battlefield

In your opinion.

And I reject that opinion based on what I said above and many additional things that are pointless to even list since you and any other bible believer here won’t listen to them anyway.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

God hardened pharaohs heart so he would not listen. It literally and clearly says it right there in the Bible.

Even if he did not - god can not say in one breath that the sins of the father will not belong to their children and then in the very next kill children for their fathers sins.

I believe Pharaoh hardened his own heart a number of times first. In Hebrew the word translated “hardened” means “strengthened” which speaks to me of God giving him over to the decisions he had made, and would continue to make.

If your heart is not entirely “strengthened” against the Gospel, you have time and hope, if not you are following Pharaoh, something you were never created for, and warned against.

 

[justjess]

I believe this is the first real conversation we have had Jess! Who do you think Jesus really was?

A divinely inspired man who came to show people the true path and who’s message was later revised and hidden by the church that claims to worship him.