Once Saved Always Saved?

Daciple

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Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
1,157
I and Jesus are just saying that faith in Him is not sufficient but in fact dead if we don't live our lives according to His words.
You say this, Jesus doesnt say this, you just have no ability to discern what Justification is and what Sanctification is. Something I do notice about you, you seem to not have the capacity to have any type of in depth conversation. I have asked you multiple direct question and you just keep repeating the same 2 sentences over and over.

Just an observation, but repeating the exact same thing over and over like a Parrot isnt going to convince anyone to look at or accept your positions. While I am not here to convince or get you to accept my positions, I am here to offer some insight to others who may be searching for the Truth or learning about the things we are discussing. You really are not offering anything worthwhile in a conversation to support your views at all.

You give your opinion say it over and over and maybe 2 verses, I mean to each their own, but I can assure you, no one is convinced by your posts to side with your ideology. And it is clear you cant answer any direct questions, possibly because you have zero answers...

Justification vs Sanctification, that is what this whole Topic revolves around, we are Justified by Faith in Christ by the Grace of God Alone, we are Sanctified by the washing of the Word, renewing of our Minds and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Justification is our standing before God for Salvation which isnt dependent on any Work we have or will do. Sanctification is the process of us being transformed into the likeness of Christ, which is done continually throughout our lives and has no bearing on our Justification before the Lord for Salvation.

If you study your Bible you would learn the difference, I hope one day you do brother and then we can have a deeper more meaningful conversation...
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
You say this, Jesus doesnt say this, you just have no ability to discern what Justification is and what Sanctification is. Something I do notice about you, you seem to not have the capacity to have any type of in depth conversation. I have asked you multiple direct question and you just keep repeating the same 2 sentences over and over.
I am not becoming a pharisee like you.. so i keep it short and sweet and on the mark.
 

Daciple

Star
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
1,157
I am not becoming a pharisee like you.. so i keep it short and sweet and on the mark.
Yeah, you are the Pharisees brother, except you are too blind to see it.

You cant even answer 2 simple questions, according to Scriptures what are the traits of a Pharisees?

What is Justification and Sanctification?

Bet you dont answer either, because you are not capable...
 
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,040
I commend you for putting thought into it.

I get that you want Christians in general to care more about being set apart and unworldly. ... I care about that too.

In fact, now more than ever, we have to crucify our flesh daily, pray more, fast more, looking ahead to the 2nd coming of Christ (which, although no one knows the exact date, I really believe will happen in my lifetime, if I live out the next 40 years of the average lifespan).

It is good to challenge ourselves to be more obedient, and call out sin & wickedness in a fallen world that wants us to embrace it.

The world is temporarily owned & operated by Satan. It WILL get WORSE.

It is a sinking ship, and there is nothing we can do to save it. It has already been written.

The most valuable use of our time on earth may seem like trying to “perfect” ourselves, but I’m telling you, it is NOT.

Our MAIN FOCUS must be SHARING the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ in hopes of getting the lost SAVED.

If we only work on bettering ourselves, HOW can we serve others??

We cannot be so self-absorbed that we do not do our first & most important works....getting people saved.

Because at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if Aunt Linda kicked her nicotine habit but died and went to Hell, does it?

NONE OF IT MATTERS IF PEOPLE DO NOT GET SAVED.
Thank you.
 
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Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,040
But... if it's really that simple, as in, you just have to say the words: I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, to be saved. And once you've been saved you're always saved no matter what.. What then, do we have the whole Bible for. If it's really that simple, then why did God give us a Bible, that is filled with History, Laws, Prophets and the Gospel?

If its all just that simple, why don't we just have a leaflet, that says something like, "Dear sinners/naughty children (you all need saving), please, follow the following steps carefully. This will only take a moment. Step 1: Say you believe "as follows". Great. We're just about done here. Now, if you've done this, please proceed on, to step 2. Step 2: If you have successfully followed step 1, then, you may now rejoice! You're saved now, forever. No matter what. Nothing else matters. Don't sweat it, don't worry about anything, don't worry, when you see bad things or bad people and especially, don't waste time or energy, thinking about silly and unimportant things, such as striving to be a better person, as that would just be a pointless distraction and it's of no importance whatsoever, anyways. We don't care at all, about that stuff. Just have as much fun as you are able, but tell others to follow the steps, so they can be saved forever too. It's ok if you want to use this situation to make some money.. why not?? Who doesn't like that. Have a ball, have at it! Make some wars too if you like. Who cares? None of this has any meaning, it's just stuff that happens because, why not? Who cares right? Oh and when you've had enough partying... please feel free, to then proceed to aisle 2, where you may collect your ticket to heaven at your convenience, which will be waiting for you, at the checkout. Sure hope this didn't take up too much of your valuable partying time. Hope this didn't cause you any worries. Because, nothing really matters (but the 2 steps). Happy travels."

Why does it say, Jesus said not everyone who calls Him Lord, Lord.. only those who do.

Are all people who call Him Lord, Lord, not saved then? If they say, Jesus is Lord and that is what we call Him. Are thy not? How do you know then, who is who?

Why do we have the Bible, and not a 1 page leaflet, if that is all it takes anyone?

If it's really that simple, why can't we just print the leaflet and use it to quickly go and save everyone?

And once we're saved, why can't we then just go? etc. etc. etc.

If it's once saved always saved, then why does it say all the other things that it does?

How does that and probably a million other questions that could be asked like it, make any sense?

Because if it was like that, then well, we could just, Hey! Great to meet you all. You been saved? Yes? Ok. that's great news, it means we don't have to do anything, because job's done! You gonna hang around here some more, too? Yes, me too. I guess we all just do that, but we don't ask or wonder why, cause you know. Ok! Sure hope you all make it to heaven, I've got nothing more to say. Seeya around, and seeya there.. (hopefully..maybe?) Dang, those pesky questions keep coming back.

This is starting to seem almost like having to work.. I think I need a break.
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
1,367
But... if it's really that simple, as in, you just have to say the words: I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, to be saved. And once you've been saved you're always saved no matter what.. What then, do we have the whole Bible for. If it's really that simple, then why did God give us a Bible, that is filled with History, Laws, Prophets and the Gospel?

If its all just that simple, why don't we just have a leaflet, that says something like, "Dear sinners/naughty children (you all need saving), please, follow the following steps carefully. This will only take a moment. Step 1: Say you believe "as follows". Great. We're just about done here. Now, if you've done this, please proceed on, to step 2. Step 2: If you have successfully followed step 1, then, you may now rejoice! You're saved now, forever. No matter what. Nothing else matters. Don't sweat it, don't worry about anything, don't worry, when you see bad things or bad people and especially, don't waste time or energy, thinking about silly and unimportant things, such as striving to be a better person, as that would just be a pointless distraction and it's of no importance whatsoever, anyways. We don't care at all, about that stuff. Just have as much fun as you are able, but tell others to follow the steps, so they can be saved forever too. It's ok if you want to use this situation to make some money.. why not?? Who doesn't like that. Have a ball, have at it! Make some wars too if you like. Who cares? None of this has any meaning, it's just stuff that happens because, why not? Who cares right? Oh and when you've had enough partying... please feel free, to then proceed to aisle 2, where you may collect your ticket to heaven at your convenience, which will be waiting for you, at the checkout. Sure hope this didn't take up too much of your valuable partying time. Hope this didn't cause you any worries. Because, nothing really matters (but the 2 steps). Happy travels."

Why does it say, Jesus said not everyone who calls Him Lord, Lord.. only those who do.

Are all people who call Him Lord, Lord, not saved then? If they say, Jesus is Lord and that is what we call Him. Are thy not? How do you know then, who is who?

Why do we have the Bible, and not a 1 page leaflet, if that is all it takes anyone?

If it's really that simple, why can't we just print the leaflet and use it to quickly go and save everyone?

And once we're saved, why can't we then just go? etc. etc. etc.

If it's once saved always saved, then why does it say all the other things that it does?

How does that and probably a million other questions that could be asked like it, make any sense?

Because if it was like that, then well, we could just, Hey! Great to meet you all. You been saved? Yes? Ok. that's great news, it means we don't have to do anything, because job's done! You gonna hang around here some more, too? Yes, me too. I guess we all just do that, but we don't ask or wonder why, cause you know. Ok! Sure hope you all make it to heaven, I've got nothing more to say. Seeya around, and seeya there.. (hopefully..maybe?) Dang, those pesky questions keep coming back.

This is starting to seem almost like having to work.. I think I need a break.
Getting saved is just the beginning.

After we are saved, we DO need to do the work—-not to remain saved, because our salvation is forever secure—but BECAUSE we are saved.

It is BECAUSE we know the true love & sacrifice given by God, Who wants to give that salvation to a fallen world who doesn’t know Him that we preach His Gospel to others.

THAT is what Jesus said after His resurrection and just before He ascended to Heaven.

He gave us a MISSION and said:

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.”......Mark 16:15
(KJB)




That was His final words before ascending to Heaven. It is our duty, our job as Christians.

If we do not share it, how will people get saved?
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
1,367
But... if it's really that simple, as in, you just have to say the words: I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, to be saved. And once you've been saved you're always saved no matter what.. What then, do we have the whole Bible for. If it's really that simple, then why did God give us a Bible, that is filled with History, Laws, Prophets and the Gospel?

If its all just that simple, why don't we just have a leaflet, that says something like, "Dear sinners/naughty children (you all need saving), please, follow the following steps carefully. This will only take a moment. Step 1: Say you believe "as follows". Great. We're just about done here. Now, if you've done this, please proceed on, to step 2. Step 2: If you have successfully followed step 1, then, you may now rejoice! You're saved now, forever. No matter what. Nothing else matters. Don't sweat it, don't worry about anything, don't worry, when you see bad things or bad people and especially, don't waste time or energy, thinking about silly and unimportant things, such as striving to be a better person, as that would just be a pointless distraction and it's of no importance whatsoever, anyways. We don't care at all, about that stuff. Just have as much fun as you are able, but tell others to follow the steps, so they can be saved forever too. It's ok if you want to use this situation to make some money.. why not?? Who doesn't like that. Have a ball, have at it! Make some wars too if you like. Who cares? None of this has any meaning, it's just stuff that happens because, why not? Who cares right? Oh and when you've had enough partying... please feel free, to then proceed to aisle 2, where you may collect your ticket to heaven at your convenience, which will be waiting for you, at the checkout. Sure hope this didn't take up too much of your valuable partying time. Hope this didn't cause you any worries. Because, nothing really matters (but the 2 steps). Happy travels."

Why does it say, Jesus said not everyone who calls Him Lord, Lord.. only those who do.

Are all people who call Him Lord, Lord, not saved then? If they say, Jesus is Lord and that is what we call Him. Are thy not? How do you know then, who is who?

Why do we have the Bible, and not a 1 page leaflet, if that is all it takes anyone?

If it's really that simple, why can't we just print the leaflet and use it to quickly go and save everyone?

And once we're saved, why can't we then just go? etc. etc. etc.

If it's once saved always saved, then why does it say all the other things that it does?

How does that and probably a million other questions that could be asked like it, make any sense?

Because if it was like that, then well, we could just, Hey! Great to meet you all. You been saved? Yes? Ok. that's great news, it means we don't have to do anything, because job's done! You gonna hang around here some more, too? Yes, me too. I guess we all just do that, but we don't ask or wonder why, cause you know. Ok! Sure hope you all make it to heaven, I've got nothing more to say. Seeya around, and seeya there.. (hopefully..maybe?) Dang, those pesky questions keep coming back.

This is starting to seem almost like having to work.. I think I need a break.
To answer some of your other questions, just saying you believe in Jesus , isn’t what saves you.

I went through my first 20 years of life wanting to know God, hearing the Gospel, saying I believed yet never getting saved.

It was confusing because I didn’t have the assurance of salvation that I thought would come from merely saying I believed. I would pray for God to save me, but always doubting if it “worked”.

I know now it was because I was not saved. And that was because I THOUGHT I believed, but I really didn’t, because I did not even truly UNDERSTAND the Gospel.

I was told to believe it, so I said I did, but I didn’t get saved because I did not even KNOW WHY I needed salvation.

I did not know that I was already on my way to Hell when I died. I thought you had to be REALLY, REALLY “bad” to go to Hell. I had never raped, murdered, or done anything that would make myself or those around me say, “You are a bad person”.

So, I ignorantly assumed I would go to Heaven.

NOBODY actually broke it down for me & showed me directly from the Bible that my assumptions were indeed FALSE, and that I was NOT “good”, as I had thought.....my pride kept me blinded for so long, and I just went through life as usual.

Then my younger brother was murdered in October 2003....months before his 21st birthday. I was closer to him than anyone else on earth. At his funeral a couple of his friends told me who did it....they were there, but afraid to go to the police because they were terrified they would be “silenced”.

I spent the first several months afterward in denial, drinking & using drugs to self-medicate until that no longer worked.

I worried about where my brother was, which was something no doctor, scientist or specialist on earth could answer. So I sought out God with ALL my heart, soul, mind, spirit and might.

I cried and begged Him to show me where my brother was, that I just wanted to know the truth, even if it was bad.

I felt like He wasn’t listening. A couple more months passed.

Then came the RAGE. It was unlike anything I had ever experienced before and is indescribable. I was furious at God—for allowing my sweet brother who was caring, kind, unselfish and so easy to love—-to be brutally ripped from my life forever. He would never finish school (he wanted to be a pediatrician), never fall in love, never have children, never make it to his Praciat ceremony scheduled a week after his death for completing Muay Thai training...nothing. It was just over, he was gone, and God did not even allow me the choice to let Him take me instead.

The rage I felt so powerfully grew into vengeance. I knew who did it, found out where they lived and loaded a revolver & a .45 to go avenge my brother’s murder. As I headed to the car, I stopped. I looked around at the night, it was a misty April night and the street lights were blurry through my tears.

I quickly came up with a plan: drive over to the murderers house, pull a kick door and rain bullets on any adult in there. I anticipated the feeling of revenge that would follow as I took from them what had been mercilessly stolen from me. .....it was potent, gave me a strange high followed by a presence that surrounded me that felt larger than the universe itself.

It felt like God Himself had intervened in the midst of my revenge fantasy & was holding up a mirror that “showed” me how I appeared in that moment, and it SCARED ME.

I no longer enjoyed the feeling that I anticipated, and it felt like pure evil. That terrified me to my very bones.

I immediately began to rethink if I should go through with it.

I didn’t see this presence, but I heard Him. He knew what I was thinking and that I was debating if I should go kill those people, when I distinctly heard a booming voice that tenderly warned, “But then you will become like them.”

My heart softened and I dropped the guns and fell to the ground sobbing. I no longer wanted revenge. Murdering them would only make me a murderer too....something I never thought I was capable of, yet just moments earlier I was relishing the idea of.

In that moment, and for the first time in my life, I saw why I was a sinner, why I was not good like I thought I was, why I could never enter Heaven. And I never felt so alone, wretched, abandoned & forsaken, and an overwhelming grief that I cannot explain with words consumed me.

I whispered up to the presence (I am not sure if it was God, an angel or what, but I believe now that it was the Holy Spirit) to please help me.

And in a millisecond, everything I had ever heard about Jesus—-His sinless life, virgin birth, death on the cross to pay for our sins, His resurrection, His Sonship to God the Father—-EVERYTHING, suddenly became completely clear, as if God Himself was showing me it was TRUE, and that it was done so long ago for my sake (and everyone’s) to save a nobody like me, over 2,000 years later, because He knew I could never save myself but did not want me to go to Hell....for no other reason except He truly loves us.

I distinctly felt like this was offered to me personally, but not forced. I could have rejected this gift and walked away, but I WANTED it.

Not only was it the best news I ever heard in my life, but it was the truest, most pure expression of love, one I never dreamed existed, and I asked God then & there to please give that gift, that love, that salvation.

And no sooner did those words leave my lips, something happened to me, faster than lightning striking, my spirit was brought to life.

And I knew that I was saved, reborn, quickened to spiritual life from death forever.


***Curiously, a few weeks after that, I found a green spiral notebook on my brother’s closet shelf. I had NO IDEA where it came from....we had cleared out his entire room the day he died.
In the notebook I found 2 journal entries my brother had written. His unique handwriting was unmistakable. The first was written 2 weeks before he died, and stated that he was afraid his friends were going to kill him, and he was scared & didn’t know what to do.
The second and final entry he wrote was exactly 5 days before he died. He wrote that he now knew his friends were going to kill him but he was no longer afraid because now he “knows Jesus, and the love of God” and that he “understood”.

What he knew, and why he died, I will not know until I meet him again in Heaven.

That is my full testimony, every word is true, and that is how I came to be saved by Jesus Christ.
 

Dalit

Star
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
1,911
To answer some of your other questions, just saying you believe in Jesus , isn’t what saves you.

I went through my first 20 years of life wanting to know God, hearing the Gospel, saying I believed yet never getting saved.

It was confusing because I didn’t have the assurance of salvation that I thought would come from merely saying I believed. I would pray for God to save me, but always doubting if it “worked”.

I know now it was because I was not saved. And that was because I THOUGHT I believed, but I really didn’t, because I did not even truly UNDERSTAND the Gospel.

I was told to believe it, so I said I did, but I didn’t get saved because I did not even KNOW WHY I needed salvation.

I did not know that I was already on my way to Hell when I died. I thought you had to be REALLY, REALLY “bad” to go to Hell. I had never raped, murdered, or done anything that would make myself or those around me say, “You are a bad person”.

So, I ignorantly assumed I would go to Heaven.

NOBODY actually broke it down for me & showed me directly from the Bible that my assumptions were indeed FALSE, and that I was NOT “good”, as I had thought.....my pride kept me blinded for so long, and I just went through life as usual.

Then my younger brother was murdered in October 2003....months before his 21st birthday. I was closer to him than anyone else on earth. At his funeral a couple of his friends told me who did it....they were there, but afraid to go to the police because they were terrified they would be “silenced”.

I spent the first several months afterward in denial, drinking & using drugs to self-medicate until that no longer worked.

I worried about where my brother was, which was something no doctor, scientist or specialist on earth could answer. So I sought out God with ALL my heart, soul, mind, spirit and might.

I cried and begged Him to show me where my brother was, that I just wanted to know the truth, even if it was bad.

I felt like He wasn’t listening. A couple more months passed.

Then came the RAGE. It was unlike anything I had ever experienced before and is indescribable. I was furious at God—for allowing my sweet brother who was caring, kind, unselfish and so easy to love—-to be brutally ripped from my life forever. He would never finish school (he wanted to be a pediatrician), never fall in love, never have children, never make it to his Praciat ceremony scheduled a week after his death for completing Muay Thai training...nothing. It was just over, he was gone, and God did not even allow me the choice to let Him take me instead.

The rage I felt so powerfully grew into vengeance. I knew who did it, found out where they lived and loaded a revolver & a .45 to go avenge my brother’s murder. As I headed to the car, I stopped. I looked around at the night, it was a misty April night and the street lights were blurry through my tears.

I quickly came up with a plan: drive over to the murderers house, pull a kick door and rain bullets on any adult in there. I anticipated the feeling of revenge that would follow as I took from them what had been mercilessly stolen from me. .....it was potent, gave me a strange high followed by a presence that surrounded me that felt larger than the universe itself.

It felt like God Himself had intervened in the midst of my revenge fantasy & was holding up a mirror that “showed” me how I appeared in that moment, and it SCARED ME.

I no longer enjoyed the feeling that I anticipated, and it felt like pure evil. That terrified me to my very bones.

I immediately began to rethink if I should go through with it.

I didn’t see this presence, but I heard Him. He knew what I was thinking and that I was debating if I should go kill those people, when I distinctly heard a booming voice that tenderly warned, “But then you will become like them.”

My heart softened and I dropped the guns and fell to the ground sobbing. I no longer wanted revenge. Murdering them would only make me a murderer too....something I never thought I was capable of, yet just moments earlier I was relishing the idea of.

In that moment, and for the first time in my life, I saw why I was a sinner, why I was not good like I thought I was, why I could never enter Heaven. And I never felt so alone, wretched, abandoned & forsaken, and an overwhelming grief that I cannot explain with words consumed me.

I whispered up to the presence (I am not sure if it was God, an angel or what, but I believe now that it was the Holy Spirit) to please help me.

And in a millisecond, everything I had ever heard about Jesus—-His sinless life, virgin birth, death on the cross to pay for our sins, His resurrection, His Sonship to God the Father—-EVERYTHING, suddenly became completely clear, as if God Himself was showing me it was TRUE, and that it was done so long ago for my sake (and everyone’s) to save a nobody like me, over 2,000 years later, because He knew I could never save myself but did not want me to go to Hell....for no other reason except He truly loves us.

I distinctly felt like this was offered to me personally, but not forced. I could have rejected this gift and walked away, but I WANTED it.

Not only was it the best news I ever heard in my life, but it was the truest, most pure expression of love, one I never dreamed existed, and I asked God then & there to please give that gift, that love, that salvation.

And no sooner did those words leave my lips, something happened to me, faster than lightning striking, my spirit was brought to life.

And I knew that I was saved, reborn, quickened to spiritual life from death forever.


***Curiously, a few weeks after that, I found a green spiral notebook on my brother’s closet shelf. I had NO IDEA where it came from....we had cleared out his entire room the day he died.
In the notebook I found 2 journal entries my brother had written. His unique handwriting was unmistakable. The first was written 2 weeks before he died, and stated that he was afraid his friends were going to kill him, and he was scared & didn’t know what to do.
The second and final entry he wrote was exactly 5 days before he died. He wrote that he now knew his friends were going to kill him but he was no longer afraid because now he “knows Jesus, and the love of God” and that he “understood”.

What he knew, and why he died, I will not know until I meet him again in Heaven.

That is my full testimony, every word is true, and that is how I came to be saved by Jesus Christ.
Thank you for sharing! That is beautiful.
 

phipps

Star
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
4,891
Getting saved is just the beginning.

After we are saved, we DO need to do the work—-not to remain saved, because our salvation is forever secure—but BECAUSE we are saved.
Please stop preaching this false and satanic message repeatedly about security in salvation especially on this forum. Salvation is conditional upon the person who has given their life to God to obey God's commandments, have faith and endure to the end. No one's salvation is secure if they wilfully sin. What you are posting is not of God.

“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die." Ezekiel 18:24.

"For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:20-22.

"For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses." Hebrews 10:26-28.

"Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him." John 9:31.

"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love."
John 15:10.


"And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.” Acts 5:32.

These verses could not be clearer.
 
Last edited:

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
If their salvation is secure why would they need to work anyway?
Well, one does wonder about that...we can go a little farther and say why not sin? You can’t lose your salvation and some time soon you’ll even be taken out of this world before the really bad stuff happens...man why not be a Christian now?
 

phipps

Star
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
4,891
Well, one does wonder about that...we can go a little farther and say why not sin? You can’t lose your salvation and some time soon you’ll even be taken out of this world before the really bad stuff happens...man why not be a Christian now?
I asked you a question I should have asked @Claire Rousseau. Many Christians who believe in osas do not sustain their relationship with God as they should because they think it doesn't matter since they are securely saved.
 

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
I asked you a question I should have asked @Claire Rousseau. Many Christians who believe in osas do not sustain their relationship with God as they should because they think it doesn't matter since they are securely saved.
Sure, I thought it was strange you asked me that. I can see that happening, think of all the people who believe osas here that won’t even really look at the verses posted against osas because they believe in their hearts they are osas. I don’t believe anything will really change their minds.
 

Camidria

Veteran
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
736
To answer some of your other questions, just saying you believe in Jesus , isn’t what saves you.

I went through my first 20 years of life wanting to know God, hearing the Gospel, saying I believed yet never getting saved.

It was confusing because I didn’t have the assurance of salvation that I thought would come from merely saying I believed. I would pray for God to save me, but always doubting if it “worked”.

I know now it was because I was not saved. And that was because I THOUGHT I believed, but I really didn’t, because I did not even truly UNDERSTAND the Gospel.

I was told to believe it, so I said I did, but I didn’t get saved because I did not even KNOW WHY I needed salvation.

I did not know that I was already on my way to Hell when I died. I thought you had to be REALLY, REALLY “bad” to go to Hell. I had never raped, murdered, or done anything that would make myself or those around me say, “You are a bad person”.

So, I ignorantly assumed I would go to Heaven.

NOBODY actually broke it down for me & showed me directly from the Bible that my assumptions were indeed FALSE, and that I was NOT “good”, as I had thought.....my pride kept me blinded for so long, and I just went through life as usual.

Then my younger brother was murdered in October 2003....months before his 21st birthday. I was closer to him than anyone else on earth. At his funeral a couple of his friends told me who did it....they were there, but afraid to go to the police because they were terrified they would be “silenced”.

I spent the first several months afterward in denial, drinking & using drugs to self-medicate until that no longer worked.

I worried about where my brother was, which was something no doctor, scientist or specialist on earth could answer. So I sought out God with ALL my heart, soul, mind, spirit and might.

I cried and begged Him to show me where my brother was, that I just wanted to know the truth, even if it was bad.

I felt like He wasn’t listening. A couple more months passed.

Then came the RAGE. It was unlike anything I had ever experienced before and is indescribable. I was furious at God—for allowing my sweet brother who was caring, kind, unselfish and so easy to love—-to be brutally ripped from my life forever. He would never finish school (he wanted to be a pediatrician), never fall in love, never have children, never make it to his Praciat ceremony scheduled a week after his death for completing Muay Thai training...nothing. It was just over, he was gone, and God did not even allow me the choice to let Him take me instead.

The rage I felt so powerfully grew into vengeance. I knew who did it, found out where they lived and loaded a revolver & a .45 to go avenge my brother’s murder. As I headed to the car, I stopped. I looked around at the night, it was a misty April night and the street lights were blurry through my tears.

I quickly came up with a plan: drive over to the murderers house, pull a kick door and rain bullets on any adult in there. I anticipated the feeling of revenge that would follow as I took from them what had been mercilessly stolen from me. .....it was potent, gave me a strange high followed by a presence that surrounded me that felt larger than the universe itself.

It felt like God Himself had intervened in the midst of my revenge fantasy & was holding up a mirror that “showed” me how I appeared in that moment, and it SCARED ME.

I no longer enjoyed the feeling that I anticipated, and it felt like pure evil. That terrified me to my very bones.

I immediately began to rethink if I should go through with it.

I didn’t see this presence, but I heard Him. He knew what I was thinking and that I was debating if I should go kill those people, when I distinctly heard a booming voice that tenderly warned, “But then you will become like them.”

My heart softened and I dropped the guns and fell to the ground sobbing. I no longer wanted revenge. Murdering them would only make me a murderer too....something I never thought I was capable of, yet just moments earlier I was relishing the idea of.

In that moment, and for the first time in my life, I saw why I was a sinner, why I was not good like I thought I was, why I could never enter Heaven. And I never felt so alone, wretched, abandoned & forsaken, and an overwhelming grief that I cannot explain with words consumed me.

I whispered up to the presence (I am not sure if it was God, an angel or what, but I believe now that it was the Holy Spirit) to please help me.

And in a millisecond, everything I had ever heard about Jesus—-His sinless life, virgin birth, death on the cross to pay for our sins, His resurrection, His Sonship to God the Father—-EVERYTHING, suddenly became completely clear, as if God Himself was showing me it was TRUE, and that it was done so long ago for my sake (and everyone’s) to save a nobody like me, over 2,000 years later, because He knew I could never save myself but did not want me to go to Hell....for no other reason except He truly loves us.

I distinctly felt like this was offered to me personally, but not forced. I could have rejected this gift and walked away, but I WANTED it.

Not only was it the best news I ever heard in my life, but it was the truest, most pure expression of love, one I never dreamed existed, and I asked God then & there to please give that gift, that love, that salvation.

And no sooner did those words leave my lips, something happened to me, faster than lightning striking, my spirit was brought to life.

And I knew that I was saved, reborn, quickened to spiritual life from death forever.


***Curiously, a few weeks after that, I found a green spiral notebook on my brother’s closet shelf. I had NO IDEA where it came from....we had cleared out his entire room the day he died.
In the notebook I found 2 journal entries my brother had written. His unique handwriting was unmistakable. The first was written 2 weeks before he died, and stated that he was afraid his friends were going to kill him, and he was scared & didn’t know what to do.
The second and final entry he wrote was exactly 5 days before he died. He wrote that he now knew his friends were going to kill him but he was no longer afraid because now he “knows Jesus, and the love of God” and that he “understood”.

What he knew, and why he died, I will not know until I meet him again in Heaven.

That is my full testimony, every word is true, and that is how I came to be saved by Jesus Christ.
Wow thank you so much for sharing that wonderful testimony!
 

Vytas

Star
Joined
Jun 29, 2017
Messages
1,904
If their salvation is secure why would they need to work anyway?
Thats comes from love and obedience. There is no "need" involved at any point in time. And getting saved is not some sort of final job. Nobody who understands think like that. As we allow spirit to renew our minds, then works starts, not before, before you are useless as you use your own judgment to decide what needs to be done. Works are "side effect" of being saved. And they might not start right away, if we struggle with obedience, backslide etc. You can be saved without works, but no amount of works can get you saved...
 

phipps

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Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
4,891
Thats comes from love and obedience. There is no "need" involved at any point in time. And getting saved is not some sort of final job. Nobody who understands think like that. As we allow spirit to renew our minds, then works starts, not before, before you are useless as you use your own judgment to decide what needs to be done. Works are "side effect" of being saved. And they might not start right away, if we struggle with obedience, backslide etc. You can be saved without works, but no amount of works can get you saved...
I know what being saved involves and I agree with most of what you've posted. What I asked was based on what @Claire Rousseau posted. Because according to her and most people on this forum who believe in osas, it doesn't matter what a saved person does good or bad, they are still saved and will go to heaven no matter what which is contrary to the Bible. And no Christian can work for their salvation anyway.

I disagree about being saved without works. Can you show me from the Bible where it says that?
 

Daciple

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Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
1,157
To answer some of your other questions, just saying you believe in Jesus , isn’t what saves you.

I went through my first 20 years of life wanting to know God, hearing the Gospel, saying I believed yet never getting saved.

It was confusing because I didn’t have the assurance of salvation that I thought would come from merely saying I believed. I would pray for God to save me, but always doubting if it “worked”.

I know now it was because I was not saved. And that was because I THOUGHT I believed, but I really didn’t, because I did not even truly UNDERSTAND the Gospel.

I was told to believe it, so I said I did, but I didn’t get saved because I did not even KNOW WHY I needed salvation.

I did not know that I was already on my way to Hell when I died. I thought you had to be REALLY, REALLY “bad” to go to Hell. I had never raped, murdered, or done anything that would make myself or those around me say, “You are a bad person”.

So, I ignorantly assumed I would go to Heaven.

NOBODY actually broke it down for me & showed me directly from the Bible that my assumptions were indeed FALSE, and that I was NOT “good”, as I had thought.....my pride kept me blinded for so long, and I just went through life as usual.

Then my younger brother was murdered in October 2003....months before his 21st birthday. I was closer to him than anyone else on earth. At his funeral a couple of his friends told me who did it....they were there, but afraid to go to the police because they were terrified they would be “silenced”.

I spent the first several months afterward in denial, drinking & using drugs to self-medicate until that no longer worked.

I worried about where my brother was, which was something no doctor, scientist or specialist on earth could answer. So I sought out God with ALL my heart, soul, mind, spirit and might.

I cried and begged Him to show me where my brother was, that I just wanted to know the truth, even if it was bad.

I felt like He wasn’t listening. A couple more months passed.

Then came the RAGE. It was unlike anything I had ever experienced before and is indescribable. I was furious at God—for allowing my sweet brother who was caring, kind, unselfish and so easy to love—-to be brutally ripped from my life forever. He would never finish school (he wanted to be a pediatrician), never fall in love, never have children, never make it to his Praciat ceremony scheduled a week after his death for completing Muay Thai training...nothing. It was just over, he was gone, and God did not even allow me the choice to let Him take me instead.

The rage I felt so powerfully grew into vengeance. I knew who did it, found out where they lived and loaded a revolver & a .45 to go avenge my brother’s murder. As I headed to the car, I stopped. I looked around at the night, it was a misty April night and the street lights were blurry through my tears.

I quickly came up with a plan: drive over to the murderers house, pull a kick door and rain bullets on any adult in there. I anticipated the feeling of revenge that would follow as I took from them what had been mercilessly stolen from me. .....it was potent, gave me a strange high followed by a presence that surrounded me that felt larger than the universe itself.

It felt like God Himself had intervened in the midst of my revenge fantasy & was holding up a mirror that “showed” me how I appeared in that moment, and it SCARED ME.

I no longer enjoyed the feeling that I anticipated, and it felt like pure evil. That terrified me to my very bones.

I immediately began to rethink if I should go through with it.

I didn’t see this presence, but I heard Him. He knew what I was thinking and that I was debating if I should go kill those people, when I distinctly heard a booming voice that tenderly warned, “But then you will become like them.”

My heart softened and I dropped the guns and fell to the ground sobbing. I no longer wanted revenge. Murdering them would only make me a murderer too....something I never thought I was capable of, yet just moments earlier I was relishing the idea of.

In that moment, and for the first time in my life, I saw why I was a sinner, why I was not good like I thought I was, why I could never enter Heaven. And I never felt so alone, wretched, abandoned & forsaken, and an overwhelming grief that I cannot explain with words consumed me.

I whispered up to the presence (I am not sure if it was God, an angel or what, but I believe now that it was the Holy Spirit) to please help me.

And in a millisecond, everything I had ever heard about Jesus—-His sinless life, virgin birth, death on the cross to pay for our sins, His resurrection, His Sonship to God the Father—-EVERYTHING, suddenly became completely clear, as if God Himself was showing me it was TRUE, and that it was done so long ago for my sake (and everyone’s) to save a nobody like me, over 2,000 years later, because He knew I could never save myself but did not want me to go to Hell....for no other reason except He truly loves us.

I distinctly felt like this was offered to me personally, but not forced. I could have rejected this gift and walked away, but I WANTED it.

Not only was it the best news I ever heard in my life, but it was the truest, most pure expression of love, one I never dreamed existed, and I asked God then & there to please give that gift, that love, that salvation.

And no sooner did those words leave my lips, something happened to me, faster than lightning striking, my spirit was brought to life.

And I knew that I was saved, reborn, quickened to spiritual life from death forever.


***Curiously, a few weeks after that, I found a green spiral notebook on my brother’s closet shelf. I had NO IDEA where it came from....we had cleared out his entire room the day he died.
In the notebook I found 2 journal entries my brother had written. His unique handwriting was unmistakable. The first was written 2 weeks before he died, and stated that he was afraid his friends were going to kill him, and he was scared & didn’t know what to do.
The second and final entry he wrote was exactly 5 days before he died. He wrote that he now knew his friends were going to kill him but he was no longer afraid because now he “knows Jesus, and the love of God” and that he “understood”.

What he knew, and why he died, I will not know until I meet him again in Heaven.

That is my full testimony, every word is true, and that is how I came to be saved by Jesus Christ.
Amazing, throughly moved, thank you for sharing, that was a blessing!

When people have these experiences, they will know they are saved forever.

My Pastor preached a message tonight from this passage:

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour
:

His message focused on stirring up your pure minds in remembrance, and he lead with our Salvation Experience. When things are hard, times are rough, and we find ourselves in doubt, even about our Salvation as can happen, we need to keep in mind God's Promises and our Salvation Experience.

II couldn't imagine being someone that believes they can lose their Salvation and have no Salvation Experience, I don't believe God wants us to continually doubt our Salvation. I've been down that road and it's miserable, why would God not want to give us assurance about our destination with Him?

I am sure there have been days you've dealt with full of doubts, but I know when it comes down to it, you can go back to that night, go back in remembrance and God brings you Peace and Joy in assurance of your Salvation!

Thanks again for sharing, God is amazing to give you such a powerful testimony, Praise His Name!
 

Vytas

Star
Joined
Jun 29, 2017
Messages
1,904
I know what being saved involves and I agree with most of what you've posted. What I asked was based on what @Claire Rousseau posted. Because according to her and most people on this forum who believe in osas, it doesn't matter what a saved person does good or bad, they are still saved and will go to heaven no matter what which is contrary to the Bible. And no Christian can work for their salvation anyway.

I disagree about being saved without works. Can you show me from the Bible where it says that?
I asked people what are we saved from ? Nobody cared to answer that...We are getting saved form eternal death nothing more nothing less...So it's not much. Many things can happen...
Im not in business of showing bible verses anymore. People take what they wan't from them and use it to support all sorts of nonsense.
 
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,040
Souls That Smile. - May 2

To conquer adverse circumstances, first conquer yourselves. The answer to the desire of My Disciples to follow Me was "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father Who is in Heaven is perfect."

To accomplish much, be much. In all cases the doing, to be well-doing, must be the mere unconscious expression of the being.

Fear not, fear not, all is well. Let the day be full of little prayers to Me, little turnings towards Me. The smiles of the soul at one it loves.

Men call the Father the First Cause. Yes! See Him as the First Cause of every warm ray, every colour in the sunset, every gleam on the water, every beautiful flower, every planned enjoyment.

- "God Calling, by the Two Listeners"
 
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