Is medical martial law really here???

manama

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You're vaccinated, you're protected so what are you worried about???
Maybe she is worried about her children, other innocent children, newborns, pregnant women, people who are immunosuppressed like elderly or people who've had a surgery or an organ transplant or maybe people who have cancer or aids. All the people who can be killed by the presence of an unvaccinated kid.
 

Lurker

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Maybe she is worried about her children, other innocent children, newborns, pregnant women, people who are immunosuppressed like elderly or people who've had a surgery or an organ transplant or maybe people who have cancer or aids. All the people who can be killed by the presence of an unvaccinated kid.
Maybe those are the people that should be excluded from the public sphere instead of banning, otherwise healthy, unvaccinated children.
 

manama

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Maybe those are the people that should be excluded from the public sphere instead of banning, otherwise healthy, unvaccinated children.
Why should we ban normal people who are at risk of death not because of their own beliefs but because of other people's late abortion plans?

Plus those people are not the ones putting other people at risk, the "healthy" unvaccinated children are.
 

justjess

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You're vaccinated, you're protected so what are you worried about???
My daughter is too young to have the full mmr vaccine and only got the first dose less than a month ago.

And I’m not worried, I don’t live where there is an active outbreak but if I did yes I would be rightfully worried for my daughters health since measles can be fatal for small children.

Does everyone participating in this thread need to have a personal reason to participate? Or am I just being singled out because we don’t agree?

If the plague came back would u want potential carriers free to roam around and infect everyone else at will? Would u want something to be done to stop the spread of the disease or would u be okay incubating yourself and stopping your own life so other people could willingly choice to put you a risk without concern?
 

justjess

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And just for the record for the millionth time mmr vaccine does not cause autism, the only potentially dangerous additive has been removed from it for years. There’s no real reason to not get vaccinated. And if it’s just on principle then have enough principle to make all the other necessary adjustments to your life instead of forcing your potentially dangerous decision onto others endangering them.

There are other vaccines I can see the argument against (gardasil specifically) but this one isn’t one of them.
 

Dalit

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And just for the record for the millionth time mmr vaccine does not cause autism, the only potentially dangerous additive has been removed from it for years. There’s no real reason to not get vaccinated. And if it’s just on principle then have enough principle to make all the other necessary adjustments to your life instead of forcing your potentially dangerous decision onto others endangering them.

There are other vaccines I can see the argument against (gardasil specifically) but this one isn’t one of them.
Good to know. Have heard various reports depending on who I talk to that all vaccines have aluminum in them or heavy metals or whatever.
 

manama

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And even then thimerosal is very very safe. A "single" pear contains 10+ times the dose of thimerosal than the vaccines a person gets in his entire life.
And yet they took it out of some vaccines because of public scare that was a result of misinformation.


Good to know. Have heard various reports depending on who I talk to that all vaccines have aluminum in them or heavy metals or whatever.
Not a reply to me, but ill still add that anyone who mentions the existence of heavy metals or aluminium in vaccines has likely no knowledge of chemistry or biochemistry or even knows anything about the said "metals".
The specific type of aluminium that is used in some vaccines is actually so safe that even if you were to swallow a rock of raw aluminium, you'd just pass it out in stool. It wouldn't cause any harm.
If it did cause harm, everyone who ate any kind of seafood would've died instantly because of the amount of Al.

The entire anti-vaxxer movement is based around misinformation.
Some of this misinformation is willful ignorance and some of it is a business tactic by people selling things like essential oils and these business are worth up to billions just because of the misinformation they spread and the lies they tell. .




Edit: Also no one that i've talked to regarding the "metals" or whatever in vaccines, even knew that there are different kinds of mercury or aluminium or other elements/compounds. I don't remember if it was this forum or somewhere else, but i had some woman telling me how a vaccine was bad because it had IRON in it.
 

Damien50

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My question is who makes the vaccines? Is there enough transparency for us to trust medical professionals getting their information secondhand? Who owns the companies making the vaccines? How trustworthy is the FDA? Who runs the FDA? How trustworthy is the FDA? Who funds these companies?

We are lied to about so much already it's justifiable to question the vaccines and the medical experts pushing them instead of blindly obeying what experts say we should do. Not everything is a conspiracy but not everything is a coincidence either. It's like some of the people that frequent this site are bots sent to discredit conspiracy theorist or anyone asking legitimate questions.

The indoctrination runs deep and reaches so many facets of our lives but this site is like reading Fahrenheit 451 and some of us keep putting the eye drops in unquestionably.
 

justjess

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Look... vaccines have been used safely for a really long time. Most of us are vaccinated and had no issues. The increase in autism has nothing to do with vaccines and I could explain it in depth but no one ever listens to me regarding it so why bother?

If autism isn’t caused by vaccines then what is the concern? Gardasil I absolutely understand and have refused for my son and will refuse for my daughter. I don’t take the yearly flu vaccine or have my son get it but my daughter does because of her young age and the risks associated with her not getting it. And in general I question all medical advice etc and look into it on my own (I refuse all current MS medications for myself due to my own research and my neurologist basically fired me as a result) but with all that said everything I’ve read about childhood vaccines says they are generally safe and definately safer then being unvaccinated so my kids are vaccinated, my niece is on a slow vaccination schedule due to her moms own research but will still be vaccinated completely eventually.

I don’t understand the concern because once you take autism out of the picture I haven’t even heard a legitimate concern.

And yes we should all be free to choose what we want but you can’t expect a public school or any other public institution not to implement its own requirements. If you don’t agree with said requirements you are not being forced to participate. Hell this happened in New York State which has some of the most lax homeschool requirements in the country - I know because I homeschooled my son in New York and it was basically “free schooling” and it was fine.
 

manama

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My question is who makes the vaccines? Is there enough transparency for us to trust medical professionals getting their information secondhand? Who owns the companies making the vaccines? How trustworthy is the FDA? Who runs the FDA? How trustworthy is the FDA? Who funds these companies?

We are lied to about so much already it's justifiable to question the vaccines and the medical experts pushing them instead of blindly obeying what experts say we should do. Not everything is a conspiracy but not everything is a coincidence either. It's like some of the people that frequent this site are bots sent to discredit conspiracy theorist or anyone asking legitimate questions.

The indoctrination runs deep and reaches so many facets of our lives but this site is like reading Fahrenheit 451 and some of us keep putting the eye drops in unquestionably.
Almost all of the information in the first paragraph is public. You can look them up, you can even go to vaccine manufacturing labs. Although its a bit difficult because obviously they are dealing with viruses and they can't risk contamination when even the air in these labs is sterilized.

Its good to question things but people have to accept the fact that in some cases even if they get answers they simply won't understand it. Not because they are idiots (well some are) but because they have absolutely no idea what they are even questioning. There is a difference between being confused about something and asking a professional, and thinking you're better than the professional.

We aren't bots here calling out conspiracies but we understand that conspiracy like trump is a lizard man is different from the conspiracy that vaccines are bad. One does nothing other than makes people look at you funny, the other can cause mass scale deaths.
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Not to mention. people who have zero knowledge or education in the fields of virology, microbiology, biochemistry etc would never understand what we are talking about no matter how many times we say it to them. Its so clear in the vaccine debate, no matter how many times, how many millions of people explain the "Heavy metals" or the "thimerosal" it doesn't make a difference because the people being explained to, have no idea what the other person is saying and since they know "mercury bad, nature good" they keep parroting that.

Questioning is good, but with questions you LOOK FOR answers. You don't just disbelieve everything as "they are lying to me" and then put up your own child and other people up to die by googling articles that agree with you.
Sometimes you have to accept that you aren't right and that other people know more than you.

MOST IMPORTANTLY on the topic of "lying". Keep in mind that the anti-vaxxer conspiracy is pushed up mostly by businesses or people who also throw claims of alternative medicines or organic diet or whatever fancy words they can come up with. And they have made billions out of these bogus claims. Maybe people should recheck who really is lying.

Edit: For people who are worried about FDA regulations and that if they know what is going on. FDA can take a decade and sometimes even more, after a vaccine or any other medicine or medical procedure is developed, to determine its safety and its widespread use. That is how strict they are about what they consider safe.
 
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Damien50

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Almost all of the information in the first paragraph is public. You can look them up, you can even go to vaccine manufacturing labs. Although its a bit difficult because obviously they are dealing with viruses and they can't risk contamination when even the air in these labs is sterilized.

I'll be answering in bold.

Its good to question things but people have to accept the fact that in some cases even if they get answers they simply won't understand it. Not because they are idiots (well some are) but because they have absolutely no idea what they are even questioning. There is a difference between being confused about something and asking a professional, and thinking you're better than the professional.

Some would argue that to some degree professionals could be indoctrinated by way of secondary education. I've heard of the autism angle and everything but I've never looked into enough to say one way or the other confidently. But we have claims of cures for aids and advanced technologies that the common people will never have access to so whether they are possibly confused or misinformed there are many professional idiots that don't question everything they've been taught and parrot narratives taught you them in class.

We aren't bots here calling out conspiracies but we understand that conspiracy like trump is a lizard man is different from the conspiracy that vaccines are bad. One does nothing other than makes people look at you funny, the other can cause mass scale deaths.
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Not even insinuating that you are a bit but rather certain individuals will appear and rather than entertain or even be objective there is an instantaneous knee jerk reaction. Granted we have headline readers in here that can't even discern the accuracy of a survey of racism because their reading comprehension and critical thinking skills are lacking. I'm just saying not everyone here is a conspiracy theorist but rather quite the opposite.

Not to mention. people who have zero knowledge or education in the fields of virology, microbiology, biochemistry etc would never understand what we are talking about no matter how many times we say it to them. Its so clear in the vaccine debate, no matter how many times, how many millions of people explain the "Heavy metals" or the "thimerosal" it doesn't make a difference because the people being explained to, have no idea what the other person is saying and since they know "mercury bad, nature good" they keep parroting that.

Well to be fair the average person only knows so much about the medical field and this opens a path for abuse by those of a 'higher' knowledge and could be construed as a conspiracy because collectively we are divided, weak, and ignorant. To go further and why I asked about transparency, one may be able to tour these facilities but that doesn't mean that the workers or anyone of a certain level is actually cognizant to the actual ingredients in these vaccines. I think from your perspective it could be seen as clear there have been plenty of professionals that have received an exodus from their jobs for blowing the whistle and then being discredited and people latch on to individuals like them because there could be some truth.

Questioning is good, but with questions you LOOK FOR answers. You don't just disbelieve everything as "they are lying to me" and then put up your own child and other people up to die by googling articles that agree with you.
Sometimes you have to accept that you aren't right and that other people know more than you.

However the answers they find may not be what you or another are willing to accept and battles over facts are pointless. The truth supersedes facts because it is undeniable and not everyone is on-board with vaccines for some reason.

MOST IMPORTANTLY on the topic of "lying". Keep in mind that the anti-vaxxer conspiracy is pushed up mostly by businesses or people who also throw claims of alternative medicines or organic diet or whatever fancy words they can come up with. And they have made billions out of these bogus claims. Maybe people should recheck who really is lying.

I've seen it pushed in earnest with no agenda by various individuals. Though i agree as to who is paying them and for what reason. There's a lack of transparency on both sides.

Edit: For people who are worried about FDA regulations and that if they know what is going on. FDA can take a decade and sometimes even more, after a vaccine or any other medicine or medical procedure is developed, to determine its safety and its widespread use. That is how strict they are about what they consider safe.

Though while that sounds nice, dangerous medicines and treatments still make it through the FDA on a regular basis. Everything isn't a conspiracy but everything isn't by coincidence either.
 

justjess

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There are numerous conspiracy theories you shouldn’t have to believe in ALL of them to be a conspiracy theorist.
 

manama

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@Damien50
There has been bad pharma practices before but it does not mean that everyone is wrong. Like we have said multiple times that if people really think that vaccines are bad or that the earth is flat, bring out proof or bring one professional that can explain. There are no proofs however, just misinformation.
You can look up any vaccine and check out its ingredients, they aren't hiding anything. You know why? Because there are many manufacturers and they are constantly in competition. Look at Gardasil vs Cervarix thing on going. Both manufacturers are competer to make the safer or more effective vaccine for the same disease.

Again, this misinformation will cause deaths, it will cause millions to die. Diseases are returning because of the anti-vax bs and it needs to stop. Vaccine manufacturers or any other professional in these fields go through decade of just pure research after completing their education just to be even looked at for a job. And the same vaccines are given to their children.

And again all ingredients of any vaccine or any medicine are public. People don't go "oh no heavy metals" out of their dreams. You have clear transparency but the people don't understand what any of those ingredients mean.

AGAIN, I'm waiting for the day i see an anti-vaxxer who actially has medical knowledge and knows what they are talking about. I was a teenager when the original gardasil debate started and the bs anti-vax claims started being posted that were already debunked a million times. I'm no longer a teen and STILL its the same people posting the same debunked claims.
 

Glad 2 know

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Maybe she is worried about her children, other innocent children, newborns, pregnant women, people who are immunosuppressed like elderly or people who've had a surgery or an organ transplant or maybe people who have cancer or aids. All the people who can be killed by the presence of an unvaccinated kid.
I see where you're coming from Manama. It's like the people who are allergic to peanuts, eggs, sun etc. I have yet to hear someone say we're banning peanuts, eggs, etc. COMPLETELY because of a few that are allergic to them. The world has always had peanuts, eggs, and you can't make the sun go away! People take their precautions to NOT be exposed to the allergens that make them so sick. Do you think that PERHAPS, PERHAPS, the people with compromised immune systems may also take those same precautions, let's say maybe have a more nutritious diet and better self care? Maybe wear a mask out in public? Maybe refrain from shaking hands?

Unvaccinated people don't have vaccine virus shedding. For the ones that are vaccinated, all the viruses injected into them gotta go somewhere right? The body has to dispose of them somehow, or you really think the viruses stay in the body forever? Or you tell me, where do the massive amount of viruses go?
 
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