The seed of the serpent

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phipps

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Red Sky at Morning said:
Is Michael the Archangel really Jesus?


Lets look at the scripture you've put up that mention Michael the archangel and lets let scripture explain itself.

  • Daniel 10:13, " “But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia."
  • Daniel 10:21, "However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince."
  • Daniel 12:1, "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued."
  • Jude 9, "But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you."
  • Rev. 12:7, "And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war."

1, "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia" (Daniel 10:13).

The prince of the kingdom of Persia is a reference to Satan, and Michael refers again to Jesus. It is the created angel Gabriel that is speaking with Daniel (See Dan 8:16, 9:21). Daniel 10:13 is probably the most difficult verse regarding Michael: “But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me.” It appears at first glance that Michael is only “one of” the chief princes.

This is an unfortunate translation in the King James. The word “one” comes from the Hebrew word “echad,” which is also frequently translated as “first,” as in the president’s wife being called “first lady.” (See Genesis 1:5; 8:13.)

This changes the whole meaning of the verse to Michael being first of, greatest or highest of, to the chief of princes—again a reference to Jesus. The prince of the kingdom of Persia who withstood the angel was no doubt the devil who frequently appears working in the shadow of earthly monarchs such as the king of Babylon, the king of Tyre, and the Roman power (Isaiah 14:4, Ezekiel 28:2, Revelation 12:4). And remember that Jesus calls Satan “the prince of this world” (John 12:31).


2, "But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince" (Daniel 10:21).

In Daniel 10:13 we see an interesting scenario where Daniel is praying to God asking Him to send an angel to explain a vision that he’d had earlier but could not understand. We read in that chapter that Gabriel was dispatched to answer Daniel’s request but couldn’t get through to him for 21 days because the prince of Persia withstood him. In other words, the angel met with resistance from the prince of Persia who tried to prevent him from reaching Daniel with the message concerning the vision. In verse 13, we learn that Michael goes to Gabriel to reach Daniel. The implication is that Michael came to provide reinforcements to Gabriel since the prince of Persia was preventing him from reaching Daniel for 21 days.

Gabriel says that only he and Michael know certain truths which Gabriel will reveal to Daniel. Who could this Michael be but Jesus, God Himself, giving Gabriel the truths to reveal to Daniel. Notice here that the angel refers to Michael as your Prince. Who was Daniel’s prince? In the previous chapter, we see the answer. In Daniel 9:25, " “Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times." Daniel’s Messiah is called the prince, which is another clear indication of Michael’s identity! So Gabriel is saying that Michael the archangel is Jesus, who knows all the truth of Scripture.


3, “At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan 12:1-2).

Michael standing up is a reference to the second coming of Jesus at the end of time when He delivers His people, those listed in the Lamb’s book of life, to include resurrecting those that sleep in the dust to everlasting life. Some might propose that, in these three preceding texts from Daniel, the description of Michael as a mere prince is inappropriate for Jesus, so it must be speaking of a created angel. Note the following verses:

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6).

" “Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times" (Daniel 9:25).

"But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses" (Acts 3:14-15).

"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Saviour, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins" (Acts 5:30-31).

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" (Revelation 1:5).


4, "Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” " (Jude 1:9).

This verse is a virtual duplicate of another Old Testament event-

"Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to oppose him. And the Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?” " (Zechariah 3:1-2).

In both Jude 9 and Zechariah 3:1-2 it is Jesus, the “angel of the LORD” who is also “Michael the archangel”, contending with Satan for both Moses and Joshua.

In Jude 1:9, Michael the archangel disputed with the devil over Moses’ body and we know that He succeeded in raising him because Moses appeared later to Jesus when He was here on earth in the Mount of Transfiguration. (Matthew 17:3).

Some people are confused by “The Lord rebuke you!” part of of Jude 1:9 where Michael rebukes the devil. They wonder: If Michael is really another name for Jesus, then why does he invoke the name of the Lord when rebuking Satan? Why not do it Himself as He did when tempted in the wilderness. "Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan" (Matthew 4:10).

In studying the Scriptures and language of Jesus, we quickly see it was a very common practice for Jesus to speak of Himself in the second person, as in Luke 18:8: "Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" And if there is still any lingering question, we have this other clear Scripture in Zechariah 3:2, where the Lord does the same thing Michael does in Jude. He invokes His own name when rebuking the devil. "And the LORD said to Satan, 'The LORD rebuke you, Satan!'" Perhaps these Scriptures are examples of God the Son, appealing to the name of His Father in rebuking Satan.


5, "And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war" (Revelation 12:7).

In this verse Michael is portrayed as leading the heavenly hosts, or armies, in the war against the rebellious Lucifer that took place. The term "dragon" is a symbolic name for Satan, the leader of evil (verse 9), so it is very safe to assume that Michael is another emblematic name for Jesus, the embodiment and leader of good. But there is more evidence.

Just as Israel was preparing for its first battle after crossing into the Promised Land, Joshua had an encounter with an unusual warrior. "And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand. And Joshua went to Him and said to Him, “Are You for us or for our adversaries?” So He said, “No, but as Commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshipped, and said to Him, “What does my Lord say to His servant?” Then the Commander of the Lord’s army said to Joshua, “Take your sandal off your foot, for the place where you stand is holy.” And Joshua did so." (Joshua 5:13-15). Not only did Joshua worship this being, but the heavenly captain received his worship. If he had been a mere angel, he would have rebuked Joshua just like the angel rebuked John for trying to worship him (see Revelation 19:10; 22:8-9).

In each case in which the angel of the Lord accepts worship, it is clearly the Son of God. But where regular, created angels are worshipped, they refuse it! Even Jesus reminded Satan in the wilderness, "For it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" (Luke 4:8).

In fact, all the created angels are commanded to worship Jesus as they did during His first advent. "And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him" (Hebrews 1:6). The devil is infuriated because he knows that someday even he will be compelled to acknowledge Jesus as king and worship Him. "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2:10-11).

Also only God could evict Satan from heaven.


And now a verse that mentions the archangel but not Michael.

6, "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first" (1 Thessalonians 4:16).

Who raises the dead with His voice? Not a created angel, indeed not even a created archangel. The shout is given with the voice of the “archangel”, the LORD Jesus Christ Himself:

"For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice" (John 5:26-28).

It is the voice of Jesus Christ (the Son of man) that raises the dead. Just as 1 Thessalonians 4:16 says, the Lord Jesus shall descend from heaven and shout with the voice of the Archangel, because He is the Archangel. With that shout, the righteous dead will be raised from their graves!


So in conclusion, yes Michael the archangel is Jesus Christ Himself.

He is sometimes called Michael, sometimes the angel of the Lord, sometimes the commander of the Lord’s army, veiling His divinity and appearing in the form of a humble angel. Yet this same enigmatic being has the power, authority and attributes that belong only to God. He evicts the devil from heaven; He resurrects the dead; He intercedes for the saints; He judges and then stands, launching the great time of trouble. He redeems the saints and receives their worship. He offers us a new name.

Courtesy of Amazing discoveries and Amazing Facts.
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TokiEl

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Jesus said before Abraham was... I am.

So who was He before He was born ?
 
Camidria

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TokiEl said:
Truth is not afraid of a little heat.

Who was Jesus Christ before He was born on earth ?
Click to expand...
Did you check out those threads I posted? It is about someone who claims that he is Michael the archangel the anti-Christ. He visited the forums 2 years ago to teach us all his truth and how he will rise up against Christ....

Jesus was and still is the Word of God,
John 1:1-3
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jesus was and still is the Son of God,

Matthew 3:16-17
16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Jesus has been called the Angel of the Lord, but He is distinct from other created angels, He allows people to worship Him as He is fully God, whereas angels do not allow worship as they are not God.
https://www.gotquestions.org/angel-of-the-Lord.html
 
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TokiEl

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Camidria said:
Did you check out those threads I posted? It is about someone who claims that he is Michael the archangel the anti-Christ. He visited the forums 2 years ago to teach us all his truth and how he will rise up against Christ....
Click to expand...
People claim a lot of things all the time... but Jesus Christ will come just as He left... on the clouds.


Camidria said:
Jesus was and still is the Word of God,
John 1:1-3
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jesus was and still is the Son of God,

Matthew 3:16-17
16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Jesus has been called the Angel of the Lord, but He is distinct from other created angels, He allows people to worship Him as He is fully God, whereas angels do not allow worship as they are not God.
https://www.gotquestions.org/angel-of-the-Lord.html
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Jesus Christ is God.

God has a Name.

YHWH.

So there are Two Persons with One name.

That can be confusing so there is a need to distinguish those Two Persons... and that's where WhoIslikeGod or Michael got His name.

He is the only Archangel in the Bible and the only One who helps angels when they are in trouble.

He is the Angel of the LORD and in Him is the name YHWH as YHWH said in Exodus about the Angel of the Covenant.

He is the Commander of the angelic army whom Joshua saw with a drawn sword. He is Holy.
 
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Camidria

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TokiEl said:
That can be confusing so there is a need to distinguish those Two Persons... and that's where WhoIslikeGod or Michael got His name.
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This is where we differ on this subject, Red has posted up enough resources to make that point so you can check that out. It's late here so I am not in the mood to debate this...
 
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TokiEl

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God is so great that God is more than one Person.

That can be hard to understand.

Now we know the name of God is YHWH.

So are both Persons called YHWH ? No One is called WhoIsLikeGod or Michael.

We on earth know Him as Jesus Christ or YHWHisSalvation Messiah.
 
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TokiEl

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Camidria said:
This is where we differ on this subject, Red has posted up enough resources to make that point so you can check that out. It's late here so I am not in the mood to debate this...
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Red copy pasted an article claiming there are three Archangels in the Bible which is false. There is only one Archangel in the Bible.
 
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TokiEl

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Red Sky at Morning said:
Gabriel (/ˈɡeɪbriəl/; Hebrew: גַּבְרִיאֵל‎, lit. 'Gavri'el "God is my strength"', Ancient Greek: Γαβριήλ, lit. 'Gabriel', Coptic: Ⲅⲁⲃⲣⲓⲏⲗ, Aramaic: ܓܒܪܝܝܠ‎, Arabic: جبريل, Jibrīl or جبرائيل Jibrāʾīl), in the Abrahamic religions, is an archangel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel
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Gabriel is not an Archangel in the Bible... and he is on record stating that there is nobody who helps him but Michael the Prince of Israel.
 
Red Sky at Morning

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TokiEl said:
Gabriel is not an Archangel in the Bible... and he is on record stating that there is nobody who helps him but Michael the Prince of Israel.
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I guess it's a case of "argument by silence". Gabriel is the messenger angel, Michael is the military angel...

The New Testament makes several references to angels, but uses the word "archangel" only twice, at Thessalonians 4:16 ("For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first", KJV)

It is not unreasonable to infer that the archangel who does the announcement here is Gabriel, providing perhaps the ultimate message.

@TokiEl - I know you well enough to know that such reasoning will not satisfy you. That's fine, I just wanted to respond to the "falsely quoted" allegation and provide you with reasons that satisfy me.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_25.cfm
 
Karlysymon

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Thunderian said:
Where do you think the legends of centaurs, mermaids and fauns come from?
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An over-active imagination or some of those did exist in the antediluvian world but Noah wasn't allowed to get them on born and his children related the existence of those creatures to their posterity.
So you'll accept that angels have a digestive system even in their celestial form, but it's stretching it to think they might have working testicles in their human?
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A digestive tract is an absolute necessity to any created being. Testicles...not so much...UNLESS you are created for procreation. In that case you'd have to account for that among the Unfallen angels. Do you think Gabriel has kids? I mean, if his companions that were expelled could sire some on earth, sure he has sired a large enough brood, that is resident in the celestial courts, over the last couple of millenia. His possession of reproductive organs is for a reason,not just for 'decorative purposes', right?
 
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TokiEl

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Red Sky at Morning said:
I guess it's a case of "argument by silence". Gabriel is the messenger angel, Michael is the military angel...
Click to expand...
Well Michael is the Archangel in Jude 1:9. And in Rev 12:7-10 Michael and his angels fought against the Devil and his angels.

In the scripture of truth according to Gabriel nobody helps him except Michael the prince of Daniel.

I mean how much clue do we need ?
 
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If I may add my 2 cent in regard to Michael ? Although it is not clear

( because as I have said in the past: we are in “revelations”. Meaning things are being REVEALED. Remember, the word was for an appointed time according to Daniel.

While over the last decade God has revealed a portion of his word ( that I have shared a lot of with you all) , things you have not known. There are things that have yet to be revealed.

When something is revealed it is clear as day scripture wise. Line upon line, precept upon precept, scripture upon scripture. It’s something that was always there but you didn’t have the spiritual eyes to see it. Because again it is for an appointed time.

Also you should always allow the scriptures to speak for themselves.

With that being said, it’s best you mentally burn your old doctrine. As scriptures state “ we have inherited LIES & FALSEHOODS “.

You also have to keep in mind what it really mean to be in REVELATIONS. Which is “the revealing” of GOD’S word (OT).

Getting back to Michael,

Michael would be the messiah according to the OT. He would be like the angel of the Lord. The one who stretched out his hand to destroy sodom. The one who God told “ ENOUGH hold back your hand” The one who led Israel out of Egypt, the first of the creations maybe......but it is not clear.

Also NOT TO COMPARE to the messiah/savior of the OT. There was nothing spoken about a savior dying on a cross, born of a virgin, who you must pray to & worship coming to save the world blah blah blah.... he’s coming to DESTROY. He would be more like what one would culturally call a “ hitter”, a “ shooter”, the right hand man...but not to get it twisted. The point is this has yet to be fully revealed.

I myself am speculating, but to simply give insight as to how the story is unfolding this is what I can come up with so far. Maybe later I’ll have time to dig up the scriptures.

When it come to scriptures you do not guess. You do not assume. You do not add your words, thoughts, or anyone else’s. You await the understanding. The scriptures should tell the story.

As far as Jesus being Michael, the problem I have always had with Christians, Christianity, and the New Testament is that Jesus pretty much take on the role of EVERYONE ( id thief as I call it)

He’s David, the seed of David, he’s the son, he’s Elijah, the Holy Spirit, he’s Judah, he’s Emmanuel, HELL he’s even God.

The characters of the OT are who they are. Moses is Moses. Judah is Judah. Michael is Michael etc....Allow them to live in their own right.

Anyway I know my words will probably fall on deaths ears as usual, and I may erase this comment because access isn’t always granted. Just like the word is for an appointed time, it’s also for an appointed people. Which is why I post certain things I probably shouldn’t post sometimes. I know most haven’t been granted the spiritual eye to see it anyway. I think that’s the fun, funny, and can’t forget the most INTRIGUING part of it. But seriously I don’t share everything only what I feel it’s ok to share.
 
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