First of all, the topic of this thread is- "should there be peace between Muslims and Christians?" The answer has to be yes. How can any God fearing person not want peaceful relations with their neighbor?
I have never said that we shouldnt desire such things...
I think the real enemy are our corrupt leaders and a rigged economic system. They spit on religion, make a mockery of it.
I think they try to but that doesnt stop Christ from being the Way the Truth and the Life. Regardless of any leader God spoke to my heart, convicted me of my Sins and gave me the opportunity to Repent and be Born Again and at the correct time lead me to a wonderful Church with other God Fearing Born Again Christians and has given me a Great Work there. If He has done this for me He will do it for you and anyone else who desires to truly know Him...
DesertRose linked several videos and articles explaining the majority of Islamic law schools do non consider apostasy a capital crime, but I'm not sure anyone even cares to learn the facts
Facts? I gave straight up pew research, unbaised facts, did you bother to look at it? I am sure you didnt, go look at the % of Muslims that support murder for Apostasy, and as I stated the real concern is the SHEER NUMBERS of those who support it. It is easy to say oh its only 43% or 56% but its another thing to take the % and put it into actual NUMBERS.
The facts are, at least 584 MILLION Muslims around the world support murder for Apostate, that is close to double the population of America! That is ALOT of people who are ready to support killing you or Rose or Colgate for leaving Islam...
Over 1500 years Islam has adapted with the changes in society.
Islam as practiced in the Middle East is as close to how people lived 1500 than any other country save maybe if you find some native culture that has been wholly untouched by foreigners in the jungle or something. The idea that they adapt to the changes in society is something I disagree with, and to be fair in some aspects I can respect it. That means they are less likely to accept things that Christianity or Islam accepts as being Amoral. Homosexuality for instance, these nations and Islam in general doesnt tolerate Homosexuality openly. I dont agree with the murdering of Gay People but I respect the refusal to bow down to the Homosexual Agenda and allow it to be practiced openly or told that it is normal and ok...
The vast majority don't live in a "theocracy" that you're claiming is so horrendous, and apostasy is not punishable by death. From Malaysia to Pakistan, Jordan Syria, Egypt,...how many majority Muslim nations don't separate church and state? Only Saudi Arabia?
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-theocratic-governments-today.html
7 with only one not Muslim, that would be the Vatican. That is officially Theocracies, this isnt to speak of the dozens of Islamic Nations that have thousands of villages and communities and cities that are essentially Theocratic in form and function. Most of them abiding by the murdering of Apostates, again hundreds of millions of Muslims support this regardless of anything you want to say...
It's kind of hypocritical because none of the Christians I've read here disregard the old testament and the original laws. We pick and choose what suits us, but we know they're there. It wouldn't make sense quoting Pslams, Judges, or Deuteronomy as God's Word, and not remember that the people of YHWH were commanded to murder out homosexuals and thieves, etc. within their tribes. Jesus, by the words we know he spoke, did not abolish the laws. We don't obey the laws of God today because of the societies we live in, simple as that.
You have shown in this part of your post, you really have no clue concerning Christianity and why we dont stone homosexuals and thieves. I believe you have it utterly backwards, Society has been reflective of Christs end of the Law in practice. If Christ hadnt come and fulfilled the Law and it was to be mandated to all Nations then Society would reflect such things. Christianity REFORMED Nations, not the other way around. If you were a Christian or understood Christianity or History you would have recognized this fact long ago...
I seriously don't get you reasoning about the "horrors" of theocracy.
Because men are Evil, I seriously dont understand how that isnt something you cant comprehend. Also if it is not YOUR Religion that is the Theocracy then it means YOU die or are oppressed. As I stated to Colgate, are you going to be okay with Satans Theocracy if the New World Order emerges? I mean its gonna be a Theocracy and its probably going to force people to act in a certain manner that many may view as Righteous, at least outwardly...
If you were a Christian you would have a problem with an Islamic Theocracy that calls for you to be oppressed and makes it illegal for you to Preach the Gospel. If you were/are a Muslim and the Vatican ran the Theocracy as they did in the past you would have a problem with them murdering Muslims for not converting or oppressing them for not being Catholic.
Seriously how do you not get this?
A government made up of prophet, priest, and king was the pinnacle of the OT.
Was it? Did you read what I quoted Colgate? God NEVER intended for their to be a Theocratic Monarchy, go read it man. Might want to study your Bible a bit more to learn what God REALLY wanted. He outright said that to call for a King was to remove Him as King, Israel rejected Him as their King when they asked for a King over them. They were EMULATING the Pagan Nations doing so...
Christ's kingdom is what we strive for, a Kingdom of God. You know...where righteousness and justice reign supreme? Yes I want a spiritually enlightened government. I don't expect that anytime soon, but my hope is someday human civilization will live under the universal laws of the Holy One, the God of Peace. Religions will be tolerated but exploitation and cruelty will not.
Well I disagree with everything you said here pretty much. First off I understand reality which is there will never be a Government that is "Spiritually Enlightened" on this planet, and if there ever was to be one, then it would only be if Jesus Christ Himself was literally on the Earth as King. Every other Government will be ran by Humans who are inherently evil and have no desire for God. Thats Scripture...
Secondly. the Kingdom of Christ isnt of this world...
Thirdly if there was a Theocracy enacted, by definition it would NOT tolerate other Religions, just as I have asked Colgate, please show me a Theocracy where people can openly practice other Religions apart from the one defined by the Theocracy...
You said, "So I am 100% sure that Muslims countries are just as close to being Sodom and Gomorrah as any Western Nation..."
Man you better have your eyes checked. We can go into detail about the filth here in the West which is far, far away from godliness. USA is perverted in many ways, there's no comparison. Is the Islamic man having 5 wives considered evil to you? All the patriarchs took multiple wives if they chose. May be like you said you are more comfortable in Sodom and Gomorrah? I know you aren't but this is the logical direction of your argument.
I think you better get your eyes checked, Islam permits P3d0philla, it permits r*pe, it permits beating of women, murdering gay people and those that choose to walk away from the Faith and many other terrible things, and that is just what is PERMISSIBLE within the Religion itself. That isnt including the fact there are plenty of Sins that are hidden. And that is my point, we can look at some aspects of its culture and say well they arent as horrible as say America, but when you go behind the veil you would see that they are just as evil and unrighteous as every other Culture...
The logical direction of my argument is to speak on the reality of Human Nature, the heart of men is Evil and all unregenerate people are wicked period. I can draw the comparison to the RCC as well, during its reign I am sure that they mandated certain things within their Culture and outwardly may have appeared that they were Righteous but of course they were practicing Evil in Secret. The same exact thing is literally seen in Israel, just read the Bible. The most prime example of this is Ezek 8, you should read the whole chapter but here are some highlights:
Ez 8:6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.
9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.
11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.
12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the Lord seeth us not; the Lord hath forsaken the earth.
13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
16 And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
To sum it up in case someone isnt understanding whats going on here, God told Ezekiel in a Vision to go inside the Temple to see what the Priests were actually doing, you know the people who are supposed to be the leaders of the Theocracy, the people who are supposed to be Righteous and Holy and leading the Nation. What does Ezekiel see? That these people are worshiping other gods right inside of the Temple itself, they were worshiping the gods of Babylon INSIDE the Temple in Jerusalem.
Like I said men are Evil and it doesnt matter if they are following Islam or not, they are still practicing immorality just like Sodom and Gomorrah, even if it is done in secret, just like those Priests in Israel were, THAT is my point...
Jesus was preaching to sinners and lost souls; Daciple you're at VC proselytiyzing to mostly spiritually awakened people.
Absolutely not, I am preaching to mostly sinners and lost souls, the fact that you can not discern this shows much about your understanding. I can guarantee you that 80-90% of those who post and/or read these forums are Lost and heading to Hell. That is why I write what I write in hopes that they come to Christ and get Born Again...
I've been a Christian most my life and was also born again (which simply means accepting God and Christ as a conscious adult)
As you have already been told, being Born Again isnt just accepting God and Christ as a conscious adult, it is a Spiritual Rebirth when one goes from being Dead Spiritually to being made Alive in Christ. It comes by Faith thru Grace when God is dealing with your heart and you have repentance towards Him believing on Him and Him Alone for Salvation. IDK what Born Again to you was, but there was a massive Spiritual Transformation that took place in my life, so maybe you and I have a completely different definition and experience as to what happens and what being Born Again is...
Muslims aren't spiritually "dead", and neither are Buddhists for that matter
Then you dont believe the Word of God, who is right you or God?
Rom 3:4 ... yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Before someone is Born Again they are dead in their trespasses and sins, they are walking according to the Spirit that is within the Children of Disobedience and they are BY NATURE the Children of Wrath. Do you not believe this?
You must not or you wouldnt be trying to tell me that Muslims and Buddhists arent Dead Spiritually. Again its not what I am saying or teaching, its what the Word of God states, so either you can align and accept what Gods Word teaches or be in opposition to it. I am not going against His Word and I am not going to lie to these people and tell them they are Spiritually Alive when the Word of God states that they are dead, and the only hope they or I have/had was to believe in Christ and be made Spiritually Alive...
There are fake serpents within every religion, but the majority are in the Right.
I am not sure if you mean the right as in they are correct and wholesome overall, or if you mean on the Political Spectrum. So are you saying that there are fake serpents in every religion but overall the majority are good, or are you saying there are fake serpents in every religion but the majority of the fake serpents are on the Right Wing Politically?
The fact is, there is only one correct Faith and that is in Christ, everything apart from Christ, that stands against it is a lie and wicked period. There is no such thing as "Good People" we all fall short of the Glory of God, all of our supposed Righteousness and "Good Works" are filthy rags before the Holy God, and everyones heart is utterly wicked and evil. The Nature of Man is Evil and Disobedient, this is Scripture, and the ONLY hope any of us have is to Repent and place all of our Faith in Christ and His Work on the Cross, Death and Resurrection and then we will be Born Again and have our wicked hearts transformed to hearts of Flesh, we will have the Holy Spirit take up residence inside of us and we will be sealed unto the day of Redemption. Everything apart from that, which is the Gospel, is a lie from Hell. Anyone who tells you anything other than that is a liar period...
It's your personal faith speaking in a thread where it really isn't the topic.
How is my personal faith aka the method of understanding the World not relevant to the Topic? Whatever Topic I enter into my personal faith is going to play a part in it, I mean look at you, you are trying to speak to me about things in light of your personal faith. That is how things work, I tell you what I believe you tell me what you believe and we make cases to support our points and beliefs, counter others points when we disagree and then put it out in the ether for others to read and decide which argument they believe is most correct...
You should be out condemning the perverts in hollywood or wall street, the true rapists and scam artists instead of intelligent, family men and women.
I am not condemning anyone, I am preaching the Gospel plain and simple. I am reiterating what the Word of God states, if you or other dont like it, then take it up with God, the author of His Word. Perverts are everywhere, Rapists are everywhere and if this was a Thread speaking on them specifically I would condemn them, but guess what, not until you mentioned it has it been brought up. So I have stuck to the Topics that have been mentioned in this Thread and have given my views and Scripture where needed to support those views. Who is feeling condemned by me? If they are then guess what that is man? It is called CONVICTION and its a good thing.
See if you say something that I know is untrue then I am not going to feel condemned at all, I wont care what you say and it wont bother me, such as if a Muslim tells me the Truth of his Religion that because I reject Muhammad then I am going to Hell, well IDC I know its not True. However if someone says something that cuts me because its True, then that is called Conviction and I am thankful for Conviction. That is when God is dealing with my heart to cause to Repent or accept something He wants me to, so that I can get closer to Him in my walk.
Here is what I have to say, if when I preach the Gospel on here and you or someone else feels something stirring in their Soul, even if it starts out as anger, then they need to honestly dwell on what and why they feel that way because there is a good chance that you are under Conviction and that God is dealing with your heart.
I don't know, I read some of the posts and there is overwhelming tone of ignorance and false judgement. On a Saturday afternoon Douglas Summers is trolling a thread dedicated to the Holy Quran (Quran, not Koran, which is the respectful way to name it by the way). No one calls that out? That was just foul. It's not befitting of followers of God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. The character of a few of the Christians here does not show the blessed qualities of love and wisdom, etc that being born again as disciples of Christ leads to. GOD IS LOVE!
I dont have any idea what you are talking about as I havent read that thread nor what he posted. What I do know is that plenty of people hate when their Sins and their False Religion is called out and the Gospel is shined upon them in Truth and they consider it hateful and disrespectful when it is anything but that...
God is Love and the fact is not telling those who are Lost and heading to Hell that they are going there isnt Love, that is Hate period. Telling them about their position before God apart from Christ which is Lost, Condemned and under the Wrath of God, and explaining to them that God loves them so much that He came to Earth as a Man named Jesus Christ and took all their Sins upon Himself and took the Wrath of God on the Cross so that they can be Forgiven and seen as Righteous in Gods eye, and then on the 3rd Day Resurrected overcoming Death and Hell for them and all they have to do is cry out to God for Forgiveness and believe in Faith on Christ and Christ Alone and they will be saved, THAT is Love. Anything apart from telling them this, is hate period.
People dont like to hear this tho and say when the Gospel goes out, that the person preaching it is hateful or the Gospel is hateful. If you want to really show these people you love them, preach to them Christ Crucified, everything else pales in comparison...