There Should Be Peace Between Muslims and Christians

Dalit

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The Second Coming of Jesus will be seen by everyone.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24&version=KJV

Note Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


Have you ever done any quick Good search on church history religious leaders who claimed to be Jesus? Obviously they weren't or we wouldn't still be here.

A few hundred kilometers from here there is a man claiming to be Jesus reincarnated too. Short article from an obvious critic. http://www.aj-miller.com/

I saw this news story on him years ago and I was struck at how infatuated and mesmerised his followers were.


I just remembered another cult leader whose church had apparently been several streets away from my house in Adelaide. https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/police-raid-agape-ministries-of-god-doomsday-cult-properties/news-story/334977b55ff2c484522290e445dd23ff?sv=de44c1b7bf707316e72c31ce51d5bc87

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/1666-agape-ministries
He made some very weird 2012 prophecies etc.

I bet his believers were as fervent as you are right now Bible student.

-----
Do you know JAHtruth personally?
Wow! I'm watching the video and that man is blaspheming our Lord. Someone even called this man Mashiach Ben Joseph! People who think they're Jesus are usually considered schizophrenic, right, and locked up in mental institutions. This is major delusions of grandeur and deception. :-(

I had to stop watching at the guy shaking with the microphone. That looked like some of the shaking and herky-jerky movements I saw in NAR. If you ever want to see something really scary, look up the Heidi Baker imparts a demon video that took place at Bethel.

Years ago I heard of some guy who thought he was Jesus somewhere in Europe and his followers were allowed to be at the base of a little mountain and he was at the top. They looked tired, hungry and thirsty. He looked unconcerned with their suffering but just wanted to be worshipped. It was sick. Although I joked with my dad "That Jesus is mean." Obviously, not the real Jesus.

What's worse yet is that the real anti-Christ spirit is more covert and will come with doctrines of demons even though people are fooled with that more overt anti-Christ stuff if they'd enter a compound and worship a mere man. And people attracted to cults are not just ignorant country people but sometimes some of the most intelligent people in the world. Like with that Hale Bopp comet group in California, many were scientists. Deception is deception and affects the average, the smart and anyone.
 
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Correct. As was mentioned and explained to you in my post above.
That event happens at The End (for MOST of mankind - The Reaping) when ALL of the tribes of the earth will mourn as Christ comes in "The Clouds" of heaven with great power and glory as His Real Self (Michael The Archangel).
http://jahtruth.net/noah

Jude
1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his holy warriors,
1:15 To execute Judgment upon all, and to convince all that are unGodly among them of all their unGodly deeds which they have unGodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which unGodly sinners have spoken against Him.

Note Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Yes. And many have come (false religious teachers, priests, the Pope, etc.) and they deceive many.

Have you ever done any quick Good search on church history religious leaders who claimed to be Jesus? Obviously they weren't or we wouldn't still be here.
Yes. I have researched quite a few of the false christs/messiah's (all of them very obvious fakes and silly jokers. I can name you quite a few, but will refrain) and cults over the years. Once you have seen enough of them then the deception they use (Satan through them) becomes more obvious and easier to spot.

A few hundred kilometers from here there is a man claiming to be Jesus reincarnated too. Short article from an obvious critic. http://www.aj-miller.com/

I saw this news story on him years ago and I was struck at how infatuated and mesmerised his followers were.

Thank you and understood. Another obvious charlatan and phony, that can't prove it and who is deceiving and conning all of those people. They can't prove it unequivocally using the Bible.

I have seen many people desperately try to debunk what JAH has been saying for years and NOT ONE of them can do it. Many have tried over the years and they have all failed. The reason is because you cannot debunk the Truth, it is not possible to do it.

You have to understand also, that if the real Christ was not here NOW in these end-times (just as He promised He would be) then Satan would have no reason whatsoever to make so many fake ones (false messiahs) in order to try and keep people away from the REAL Christ, Who is here now and as I have told you about. The best place to try and hide a tree, is in a wood (a forest).

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


You have previously mentioned that you have no intention to read the Book. If you are so sure of what you are saying here then why not?

If people are so sure, that they are right about what they believe, then what could they possibly have to lose by reading this book, especially when considering its self-explanatory Title?

(Except possibly losing their illusions, by being exposed to and learning the Truth? It seems people really tend to want to desperately keep hanging on those i.e. hang on to their illusions. But that won't help. Only the Truth is what will help everyone.)

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

I bet his believers were as fervent as you are right now Bible student.
They really need to stop following false Christs, and promoting their work, as Jesus instructed (Matt 24:3).

2 Peter
2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom The Way of Truth shall be evil spoken of.
2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
King of kings' Bible

We are in the end days and they are all in grave danger.
 
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This is where the KJV version communicates something modern translations do not:

(ESV) 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

(KJV) 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

How do you talk someone out of being in love with an abuser?
How do you talk someone out of spiritual seduction?

Bible student is bewitched by JAH. Only God will open his (?) eyes, and only if his heart still wants to know the truth.

This is a long sermon but a very good one. https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/54-29/understanding-the-seducing-spirit
You are speaking ignorantly. You've said previously that you have no intention of reading the Book. How can you possibly make a fully informed decision and come to a rational conclusion, when you are not (as you said, that you have no intention of being) fully informed?

This is very foolish.
 

DavidSon

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^^^ Stunning. I'm in shock that a group like that could even exist, I've seriously never seen something that bizarre.

I like the guy who said he'd look aj miller right in the eyes...and rip his throat out! Haha

I noticed the whole emotion, soulmate, sexuality theme which appeals more to women. The few men there crying seem straight up schizophrenic. One strange part was in the one-on-one interview AJ couldn't stop smiling, giggling. He's helping destroy marriages and gets a big laugh out of it all. May God destroy that sick bastard.
 
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Wow! I'm watching the video and that man is blaspheming our Lord. Someone even called this man Mashiach Ben Joseph! People who think they're Jesus are usually considered schizophrenic, right, and locked up in mental institutions. This is major delusions of grandeur and deception. :-(

I had to stop watching at the guy shaking with the microphone. That looked like some of the shaking and herky-jerky movements I saw in NAR. If you ever want to see something really scary, look up the Heidi Baker imparts a demon video that took place at Bethel.

Years ago I heard of some guy who thought he was Jesus somewhere in Europe and his followers were allowed to be at the base of a little mountain and he was at the top. They looked tired, hungry and thirsty. He looked unconcerned with their suffering but just wanted to be worshipped. It was sick. Although I joked with my dad "That Jesus is mean." Obviously, not the real Jesus.

What's worse yet is that the real anti-Christ spirit is more covert and will come with doctrines of demons even though people are fooled with that more overt anti-Christ stuff if they'd enter a compound and worship a mere man. And people attracted to cults are not just ignorant country people but sometimes some of the most intelligent people in the world. Like with that Hale Bopp comet group in California, many were scientists. Deception is deception and affects the average, the smart and anyone.
Which video are you referring to, please? It does not sound like anything I've seen. Do you have a link?

Edit - Oh, my mistake. I see you meant the video in JoChris' post. Not a video that is about JAH.
 

DavidSon

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You are speaking ignorantly. You've said previously that you have no intention of reading the Book. How can you possibly make a fully informed decision and come to a rational conclusion, when you are not (as you said, that you have no intention of being) fully informed?

This is very foolish.
I'm at least one person who said they will look into the book. I have jahtruth page open on my browser.

Yesterday your post got me wondering: Does Hill personally say he's the Christ or is this your own revelation? I didn't see him saying that on the website.
 

JoChris

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Wow! I'm watching the video and that man is blaspheming our Lord. Someone even called this man Mashiach Ben Joseph! People who think they're Jesus are usually considered schizophrenic, right, and locked up in mental institutions. This is major delusions of grandeur and deception. :-(

I had to stop watching at the guy shaking with the microphone. That looked like some of the shaking and herky-jerky movements I saw in NAR. If you ever want to see something really scary, look up the Heidi Baker imparts a demon video that took place at Bethel.

Years ago I heard of some guy who thought he was Jesus somewhere in Europe and his followers were allowed to be at the base of a little mountain and he was at the top. They looked tired, hungry and thirsty. He looked unconcerned with their suffering but just wanted to be worshipped. It was sick. Although I joked with my dad "That Jesus is mean." Obviously, not the real Jesus.

What's worse yet is that the real anti-Christ spirit is more covert and will come with doctrines of demons even though people are fooled with that more overt anti-Christ stuff if they'd enter a compound and worship a mere man. And people attracted to cults are not just ignorant country people but sometimes some of the most intelligent people in the world. Like with that Hale Bopp comet group in California, many were scientists. Deception is deception and affects the average, the smart and anyone.
I read this quaint book about "religious enthusiasm" https://archive.org/details/naturalhistorye00taylgoog.
It deserves to be read more but the language is way too formal for most people.

The polite 19th century of describing religious fanaticism. It was all about "Christian" fanaticism too, not other cults or religions.

e.g. p.82 [spaces added]
....Nevertheless, when a large class of men is professionally devoted to the study of theology, there will not be wanting some whose mental conformation (not to mention motives which are foreign to our subject) impels them to abandon the modest path of exposition, and to seek, within the precincts of religion, for the gratifications that accompany abstruse speculation, discovery, invention, exaggeration, and paradox.

All these pleasures of a morbid or misdirected intellectual activity may be obtained in the regions of theology, not less than in those of mathematical and physical science, if once the restraints of a religious and heartfelt reverence for the authority of the word of God are discarded. The principal heresies that have disturbed the church.


My translation:
There will be a few people who are naturally interested in religion out there that begin to trust their imaginations and wild theories MORE than the bible. Their imaginations are actually so good they have convinced themselves and others that they have seen "the real truth" (that others before them were too blind to see.) JAHtruth is an example of the convincer, bible student is an example of the convinced.

Proverbs 18:1 Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom.
2 A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
 

JoChris

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You are speaking ignorantly. You've said previously that you have no intention of reading the Book. How can you possibly make a fully informed decision and come to a rational conclusion, when you are not (as you said, that you have no intention of being) fully informed?

This is very foolish.
I am quoting directly from the bible. Are you calling the bible foolish?

Nobody on the internet has bothered to analyse and pick out all the discrepancies and misquoting everywhere because it would take too much time. I have looked and all there is a few critical comments on very small forums.

Christian apologists have enough on their hands dealing with major false religions e.g. Islam. Don't expect them to be worrying about minor conspiracy theorists [ e.g. one who tries to blend Christianity, Islam and UFOs together and hopefully only deceives a tiny amount of people] as well.

Yes I am being frank here, but I want to make myself clear. A while back I actually went to the jahtruth website and what I saw was an utter trainwreck.

e.g. http://jahtruth.net/resure.htm
"That 1/3 of the Beings of the Universe were defeated and sent with Lucifer to the prison planet Earth, where the war continued. Out of that 1/3 who took part in the insurrection; were sent to Earth and imprisoned inside human bodies; one being, called Abraham, decided to believe only God and thereby became the "friend of God"; proved his faith by his test over Isaac and began the journey of resure-rection, that ends with the test of the Crucifixion, that everyone must face and pass, to return to Life and salvation, as Jesus said."

1. Where does it say in the bible that the fallen angels were imprisoned inside human bodies?
I thought Scientology's propaganda came closer to Jahtruth's statement.

[part 1 of 4]

2. Where does it say that every person is going to face the test of the crucifixion?

That is just the surface in that tiny segment - the statement is so unclear just like every other bit of Jahtruth's ramblings.

How you could reject the bible for such low standard material.... it goes to show Solomon was right:

[the simple believe Foolish woman's words] 17 Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+9:13-18&version=KJV

Please form your own thread now. You are neither Muslim or Christian.

Goodnight.
 
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I read this quaint book about "religious enthusiasm" https://archive.org/details/naturalhistorye00taylgoog.
It deserves to be read more but the language is way too formal for most people.

The polite 19th century of describing religious fanaticism. It was all about "Christian" fanaticism too, not other cults or religions.

e.g. p.82 [spaces added]
....Nevertheless, when a large class of men is professionally devoted to the study of theology, there will not be wanting some whose mental conformation (not to mention motives which are foreign to our subject) impels them to abandon the modest path of exposition, and to seek, within the precincts of religion, for the gratifications that accompany abstruse speculation, discovery, invention, exaggeration, and paradox.

All these pleasures of a morbid or misdirected intellectual activity may be obtained in the regions of theology, not less than in those of mathematical and physical science, if once the restraints of a religious and heartfelt reverence for the authority of the word of God are discarded. The principal heresies that have disturbed the church.

My translation:
There will be a few people who are naturally interested in religion out there that begin to trust their imaginations and wild theories MORE than the bible. Their imaginations are actually so good they have convinced themselves and others that they have seen "the real truth" (that others before them were too blind to see.) JAHtruth is an example of the convincer, bible student is an example of the convinced.

Proverbs 18:1 Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom.
2 A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
JoChris, you have said previously that you have no intention of reading The Way home or face The Fire, when I asked if you had read it. It's not logical to take a position on something if you don't know what it is. It could not be.

However, perhaps it is best to return back to the topic now as DavidSon has also previously suggested. I mentioned JAH's Book here, because I have read it many times and would also like others here to please consider reading it for themselves so they too may benefit. It talks in many places about the reasons that are behind all of the insane religious wars and explains everything in a simple way that makes perfect spiritual sense.

It also gives the solution to the problem, along with a lot of other information, that should be helpful and beneficial and which is why I've made some effort here to try and show people (such as by having quoted excerpts from it) to hopefully, pique enough of an interest for at least a few and hopefully spur on further investigation. It has been done out of love for all of you.

Those who are meant to find and read the information will do it, and those who are not, won't. That's just the way it works.

The intention however is not to derail the discussion away from the original topic - there should be peace between Muslims and Christians - which is an important one.

The divisions that exist and have been preventing this from happening are due to Satan tricking people with religions (as Satan is continuing to do right up to this day). The information that has been presented does a brilliant job of showing this, for anyone who will care enough to look.
 
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I am quoting directly from the bible. Are you calling the bible foolish?

Nobody on the internet has bothered to analyse and pick out all the discrepancies and misquoting everywhere because it would take too much time. I have looked and all there is a few critical comments on very small forums.

Christian apologists have enough on their hands dealing with major false religions e.g. Islam. Don't expect them to be worrying about minor conspiracy theorists [ e.g. one who tries to blend Christianity, Islam and UFOs together and hopefully only deceives a tiny amount of people] as well.

Yes I am being frank here, but I want to make myself clear. A while back I actually went to the jahtruth website and what I saw was an utter trainwreck.

e.g. http://jahtruth.net/resure.htm
"That 1/3 of the Beings of the Universe were defeated and sent with Lucifer to the prison planet Earth, where the war continued. Out of that 1/3 who took part in the insurrection; were sent to Earth and imprisoned inside human bodies; one being, called Abraham, decided to believe only God and thereby became the "friend of God"; proved his faith by his test over Isaac and began the journey of resure-rection, that ends with the test of the Crucifixion, that everyone must face and pass, to return to Life and salvation, as Jesus said."

1. Where does it say in the bible that the fallen angels were imprisoned inside human bodies?
I thought Scientology's propaganda came closer to Jahtruth's statement.

[part 1 of 4]

2. Where does it say that every person is going to face the test of the crucifixion?

That is just the surface in that tiny segment - the statement is so unclear just like every other bit of Jahtruth's ramblings.

How you could reject the bible for such low standard material.... it goes to show Solomon was right:

[the simple believe Foolish woman's words] 17 Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+9:13-18&version=KJV

Please form your own thread now. You are neither Muslim or Christian.

Goodnight.
In the Bible.

Matthew
16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.
16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste death (of the "Self"), till they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom.

i.e. follow Christ's Teaching and Example, of crucifying the "Self" (the human "Self" and all of it's selfishness) daily, by taking up your cross (of "Self" sacrifice) daily and then following him (Christ) until it (the Ego / the "Self") is crucified (dead) and it leaves you free.

Luke
9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elijah did?
9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what kind of spirit ye are of (Rev. 12:7-9; Matt. 8:22).
 
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Wigi

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Calvin's was a protestant theocracy, based upon the Bible, as were his Institutes of the Christian Religion. Servetus wrote and published his On the Errors of the Trinity and was tried and executed for blasphemy, a religious infraction.
I'll repeat myself again,
I would like to see where in the NT it is said to hate and kill your brethren for a doctrine because I haven't found anything.

Jesus said He would forgive blasphemy so it means executing people for blasphemy is a 'theocratic' measure not a divine one.

As a christian, you have to accept that Jesus gave His life to take our penalty for us. That's why He said :

"Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful."
Luke 6:36

But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.
Matthew 12:7

Servitus has been executed in accordance to their law not according to the Bible.

I provided proof that they were doing it in Geneva
I would like to know if you have other examples to prove that it was a common practice among them or if Servetus was an exception that helped Calvinists and other protestants to see the problem of a judiciary system that criminalize thought.

He returned the favor by calling the pope the Antichrist.
Because the pope was a type of Antichrist according to scriptures.

Will Jesus Christ, upon his second coming, be King of this world, including physical Jerusalem?
His kingdom isn't of this world.

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
John 18:36

But does the parable refer to something literal, literal killings, that Jesus Christ will either do or have done to those who refuse to be ruled by him?
The book of Matthew explains what Jesus will do to inflict his righteous judgment in a world full of injustice.
 

Serveto

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I'll repeat myself again, I would like to see where in the NT it is said to hate and kill your brethren for a doctrine because I haven't found anything. Jesus said He would forgive blasphemy so it means executing people for blasphemy is a 'theocratic' measure not a divine one.
You may repeat yourself all you like, but you aren't doing it for me, at my need or request. I answered somebody else when they said that Christians have no history of killing, though I think the word used was murdering, their apostates. By "Christians" I knew she excluded Catholics, out of hand, so I provided examples of protestant communities enacting capital punishment for religious crimes. Calvin's was, and is, called a theocracy, with emphasis on the theo, because it was built on the divinely revealed scriptures. That you consider John Calvin's decision one which cannot be supported by scripture means that I will repeat myself: it's too bad that you weren't in Geneva, giving your interpretations of scripture, because you might have been able to save Servetus' head and life.
Servitus has been executed in accordance to their law not according to the Bible.
Maybe their theocracy only lacked one thing: another theocrat to interpret the Bible, this time "accurately."
I would like to know if you have other examples to prove that it was a common practice among them or if Servetus was an exception that helped Calvinists and other protestants to see the problem of a judiciary system that criminalize thought.
It was not a common practice, and I already agreed that it caused many Christian humanists and libertarians grief. The burning of Servetus sent the thinking Christian world into conscious self-reflection and helped usher in Enlightenment ideals which are with us still. Again keeping in mind that I was answering a question, if we move from Geneva to the Americas, there is an example of protestants arming themselves, and, under the notion of "manifest destiny," considering themselves the new Israelites and America the new promised land, with all that that portended for the indigenous natives.
Because the pope was a type of Antichrist according to scriptures.
I understand. I followed Luther's reasoning concerning the "Babylonian captivity of the Church" quite well. It was a scathing and convincing argument. Still, I find it curious that Luther's coat of arms is said to have a rose and cross when those are the two predominant signs of Rosicrucianism.
His Kingdom isn't of this world.

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
John 18:36
I said that in my response to you above. He could be, or is, a king whose kingdom is not of this world. My new question is whether, though his kingdom is not of this world, he will still be king of this world, including physical Jerusalem, upon his second coming? I understand, primarily from listening to Handel's Messiah, which is based on scripture, that "the kingdoms of this world" will become "the kingdom of our Lord, and of His Christ." It sounds as though this world will be subsumed by His.
The book of Matthew explains what Jesus will do to inflict his righteous judgment in a world full of injustice.
So, apparently, does the book of Luke, and I still wonder if the parable refers to something literal, literal killings, that Jesus Christ either will do or have done to those who refuse his reign and rule.
 
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Wigi

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Calvin's was, and is, called a theocracy, with emphasis on the theo, because it was built on the divinely revealed scriptures.
Not really, it seems like it was built in opposition to the Catholic power.

Maybe their theocracy only lacked one thing: another theocrat to interpret the Bible, this time "accurately."
The thing is, I don't believe in a theocracy because it contradict Jesus commandment about the Church being separated from the world :

I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
John 17:15‭-‬16

And Jesus answered and said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they marveled at Him.
Mark 12:17

The state and the Church should stay separated.

under the notion of "manifest destiny," considering themselves the new Israelites and America the new promised land, with all that that portended for the indigenous natives.
Well, we should ask them why they refused to keep the Shabbat with that logic. Even like that, it is written that they should offer peace so they could live together.

That being said, we know that the conquest of the west was motivated by this competition for control against the Ottoman Empire.
After a war, the winner always look evil but we tend to forget that he wasn't fighting alone. That's another problem.

Still, I find it curious that Luther's coat of arms is said to have a rose and cross when those are the two predominant signs of Rosicrucianism
If you could source this information it would help.

My new question is whether, though his kingdom is not of this world, he will still be king of this world, including physical Jerusalem, upon his second coming? I understand, primarily from listening to Handel's Messiah, which is based on scripture, that "the kingdoms of this world" will become "the kingdom of our Lord, and of His Christ." It sounds as though this world will be subsumed by His.
Before his coming, there will be a new world order and the world will serve the Antichrist. Some Christians believe that the rapture will occur before this nwo.

Jesus will come to judge the beast and the Antichrist then he'll make a new earth as this one will be destroyed by mankind. (the earth will mourn)

So, apparently, does the book of Luke, and I still wonder if the parable refers to something literal, literal killings, that Jesus Christ either will do or have done to those who refuse his reign and rule.
I quote :

So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just
Matthew 13:49

The book of Matthew explains what Jesus will do to inflict his righteous judgment.
 
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You are neither Muslim or Christian.
Yes, but in my defense, neither were Jesus' very own disciples.

Even a mainstream site such as gotquestions.org is able to attest to that:
https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-disciple.html

Christians follow the doctrines of the church (not Christ) and so-called Christianity, which is the name of an organized religion they invented that is abusing Christ's name and that teaches people to do the opposite of what Christ said.

All organized religions were invented by Satan.

I'm not trying to be hurtful by saying this to you, but it is the honest truth.

If Christianity was truly following Christ, as is claimed, then they wouldn't be doing things like celebrating pagan Xmas (Yuletide - from the Babylonian Mystery religion of SUN worship) and Easter (Ishtar - who was a Babylonian pagan fertility goddess of the Babylonian Mystery Religion of Sun-worship) festivals and still at the same time try to somehow claim that they are faithfully following Christ. Who do they think they are fooling?

Certainly not Christ!
 
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Serveto

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Not really, it seems like it was built in opposition to the Catholic power.
It was seemingly that and more. It was a protestant theocracy, and protestants were not only interpreting the scriptures, they were also writing and enacting the laws which governed their civil community. Those laws apparently included laws against heresy and/or blasphemy.
The thing is, I don't believe in a theocracy because it contradict Jesus commandment about the Church being separated from the world :
I not only understand but also appreciate that. I, on the other hand, do believe in a theocracy but only to the extent that I believe one was in place at John Calvin's Geneva. That it was capable of errors in judgement, I don't dispute.
The state and the Church should stay separated.
Let's hope so.
Well, we should ask them why they refused to keep the Shabbat with that logic. Even like that, it is written that they should offer peace so they could live together.
My point is, however arguably misguided they may have been to consider themselves the new Israelites and America their promised land, they were protestant Christians who were armed, and they made use of those arms.
That being said, we know that the conquest of the west was motivated by this competition for control against the Ottoman Empire. After a war, the winner always look evil but we tend to forget that he wasn't fighting alone. That's another problem.
Agreed. To be clear, I am not really making any value judgments concerning good and evil, and, in any case, if I want to be purely Machiavellian, or maybe it was Clausewitz on the tongue of Bernard Henri-Levy, I would say that war is not metaphysics, good against evil, but is simply politics by other means. That is ruthless, amoral, and seems to express the m.o. of the power elite.
If you could source this information it would help.
I understand. I said, when I raised it, that I haven't researched the matter in depth and was wondering if you had. You seem to understand distinctions between Rosicrucianism and Freemasonry and seem to have studied the issue of when and where either or both schools were historically operative. If I find anything substantive, I might post it.
Before his coming, there will be a new world order and the world will serve the Antichrist. Some Christians believe that the rapture will occur before this nwo. Jesus will come to judge the beast and the Antichrist then he'll make a new earth as this one will be destroyed by mankind. (the earth will mourn)
Thank you for providing your understanding.
 

Daciple

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First of all, the topic of this thread is- "should there be peace between Muslims and Christians?" The answer has to be yes. How can any God fearing person not want peaceful relations with their neighbor?
I have never said that we shouldnt desire such things...

I think the real enemy are our corrupt leaders and a rigged economic system. They spit on religion, make a mockery of it.
I think they try to but that doesnt stop Christ from being the Way the Truth and the Life. Regardless of any leader God spoke to my heart, convicted me of my Sins and gave me the opportunity to Repent and be Born Again and at the correct time lead me to a wonderful Church with other God Fearing Born Again Christians and has given me a Great Work there. If He has done this for me He will do it for you and anyone else who desires to truly know Him...

DesertRose linked several videos and articles explaining the majority of Islamic law schools do non consider apostasy a capital crime, but I'm not sure anyone even cares to learn the facts
Facts? I gave straight up pew research, unbaised facts, did you bother to look at it? I am sure you didnt, go look at the % of Muslims that support murder for Apostasy, and as I stated the real concern is the SHEER NUMBERS of those who support it. It is easy to say oh its only 43% or 56% but its another thing to take the % and put it into actual NUMBERS.

The facts are, at least 584 MILLION Muslims around the world support murder for Apostate, that is close to double the population of America! That is ALOT of people who are ready to support killing you or Rose or Colgate for leaving Islam...

Over 1500 years Islam has adapted with the changes in society.
Islam as practiced in the Middle East is as close to how people lived 1500 than any other country save maybe if you find some native culture that has been wholly untouched by foreigners in the jungle or something. The idea that they adapt to the changes in society is something I disagree with, and to be fair in some aspects I can respect it. That means they are less likely to accept things that Christianity or Islam accepts as being Amoral. Homosexuality for instance, these nations and Islam in general doesnt tolerate Homosexuality openly. I dont agree with the murdering of Gay People but I respect the refusal to bow down to the Homosexual Agenda and allow it to be practiced openly or told that it is normal and ok...

The vast majority don't live in a "theocracy" that you're claiming is so horrendous, and apostasy is not punishable by death. From Malaysia to Pakistan, Jordan Syria, Egypt,...how many majority Muslim nations don't separate church and state? Only Saudi Arabia?
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-theocratic-governments-today.html

7 with only one not Muslim, that would be the Vatican. That is officially Theocracies, this isnt to speak of the dozens of Islamic Nations that have thousands of villages and communities and cities that are essentially Theocratic in form and function. Most of them abiding by the murdering of Apostates, again hundreds of millions of Muslims support this regardless of anything you want to say...

It's kind of hypocritical because none of the Christians I've read here disregard the old testament and the original laws. We pick and choose what suits us, but we know they're there. It wouldn't make sense quoting Pslams, Judges, or Deuteronomy as God's Word, and not remember that the people of YHWH were commanded to murder out homosexuals and thieves, etc. within their tribes. Jesus, by the words we know he spoke, did not abolish the laws. We don't obey the laws of God today because of the societies we live in, simple as that.
You have shown in this part of your post, you really have no clue concerning Christianity and why we dont stone homosexuals and thieves. I believe you have it utterly backwards, Society has been reflective of Christs end of the Law in practice. If Christ hadnt come and fulfilled the Law and it was to be mandated to all Nations then Society would reflect such things. Christianity REFORMED Nations, not the other way around. If you were a Christian or understood Christianity or History you would have recognized this fact long ago...

I seriously don't get you reasoning about the "horrors" of theocracy.
Because men are Evil, I seriously dont understand how that isnt something you cant comprehend. Also if it is not YOUR Religion that is the Theocracy then it means YOU die or are oppressed. As I stated to Colgate, are you going to be okay with Satans Theocracy if the New World Order emerges? I mean its gonna be a Theocracy and its probably going to force people to act in a certain manner that many may view as Righteous, at least outwardly...

If you were a Christian you would have a problem with an Islamic Theocracy that calls for you to be oppressed and makes it illegal for you to Preach the Gospel. If you were/are a Muslim and the Vatican ran the Theocracy as they did in the past you would have a problem with them murdering Muslims for not converting or oppressing them for not being Catholic.

Seriously how do you not get this?

A government made up of prophet, priest, and king was the pinnacle of the OT.
Was it? Did you read what I quoted Colgate? God NEVER intended for their to be a Theocratic Monarchy, go read it man. Might want to study your Bible a bit more to learn what God REALLY wanted. He outright said that to call for a King was to remove Him as King, Israel rejected Him as their King when they asked for a King over them. They were EMULATING the Pagan Nations doing so...

Christ's kingdom is what we strive for, a Kingdom of God. You know...where righteousness and justice reign supreme? Yes I want a spiritually enlightened government. I don't expect that anytime soon, but my hope is someday human civilization will live under the universal laws of the Holy One, the God of Peace. Religions will be tolerated but exploitation and cruelty will not.
Well I disagree with everything you said here pretty much. First off I understand reality which is there will never be a Government that is "Spiritually Enlightened" on this planet, and if there ever was to be one, then it would only be if Jesus Christ Himself was literally on the Earth as King. Every other Government will be ran by Humans who are inherently evil and have no desire for God. Thats Scripture...

Secondly. the Kingdom of Christ isnt of this world...

Thirdly if there was a Theocracy enacted, by definition it would NOT tolerate other Religions, just as I have asked Colgate, please show me a Theocracy where people can openly practice other Religions apart from the one defined by the Theocracy...

You said, "So I am 100% sure that Muslims countries are just as close to being Sodom and Gomorrah as any Western Nation..."
Man you better have your eyes checked. We can go into detail about the filth here in the West which is far, far away from godliness. USA is perverted in many ways, there's no comparison. Is the Islamic man having 5 wives considered evil to you? All the patriarchs took multiple wives if they chose. May be like you said you are more comfortable in Sodom and Gomorrah? I know you aren't but this is the logical direction of your argument.
I think you better get your eyes checked, Islam permits P3d0philla, it permits r*pe, it permits beating of women, murdering gay people and those that choose to walk away from the Faith and many other terrible things, and that is just what is PERMISSIBLE within the Religion itself. That isnt including the fact there are plenty of Sins that are hidden. And that is my point, we can look at some aspects of its culture and say well they arent as horrible as say America, but when you go behind the veil you would see that they are just as evil and unrighteous as every other Culture...

The logical direction of my argument is to speak on the reality of Human Nature, the heart of men is Evil and all unregenerate people are wicked period. I can draw the comparison to the RCC as well, during its reign I am sure that they mandated certain things within their Culture and outwardly may have appeared that they were Righteous but of course they were practicing Evil in Secret. The same exact thing is literally seen in Israel, just read the Bible. The most prime example of this is Ezek 8, you should read the whole chapter but here are some highlights:

Ez 8:6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.

9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.
11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.
12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the Lord seeth us not; the Lord hath forsaken the earth.
13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.

16 And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

To sum it up in case someone isnt understanding whats going on here, God told Ezekiel in a Vision to go inside the Temple to see what the Priests were actually doing, you know the people who are supposed to be the leaders of the Theocracy, the people who are supposed to be Righteous and Holy and leading the Nation. What does Ezekiel see? That these people are worshiping other gods right inside of the Temple itself, they were worshiping the gods of Babylon INSIDE the Temple in Jerusalem.

Like I said men are Evil and it doesnt matter if they are following Islam or not, they are still practicing immorality just like Sodom and Gomorrah, even if it is done in secret, just like those Priests in Israel were, THAT is my point...

Jesus was preaching to sinners and lost souls; Daciple you're at VC proselytiyzing to mostly spiritually awakened people.
Absolutely not, I am preaching to mostly sinners and lost souls, the fact that you can not discern this shows much about your understanding. I can guarantee you that 80-90% of those who post and/or read these forums are Lost and heading to Hell. That is why I write what I write in hopes that they come to Christ and get Born Again...

I've been a Christian most my life and was also born again (which simply means accepting God and Christ as a conscious adult)
As you have already been told, being Born Again isnt just accepting God and Christ as a conscious adult, it is a Spiritual Rebirth when one goes from being Dead Spiritually to being made Alive in Christ. It comes by Faith thru Grace when God is dealing with your heart and you have repentance towards Him believing on Him and Him Alone for Salvation. IDK what Born Again to you was, but there was a massive Spiritual Transformation that took place in my life, so maybe you and I have a completely different definition and experience as to what happens and what being Born Again is...

Muslims aren't spiritually "dead", and neither are Buddhists for that matter
Then you dont believe the Word of God, who is right you or God?

Rom 3:4 ... yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Before someone is Born Again they are dead in their trespasses and sins, they are walking according to the Spirit that is within the Children of Disobedience and they are BY NATURE the Children of Wrath. Do you not believe this?

You must not or you wouldnt be trying to tell me that Muslims and Buddhists arent Dead Spiritually. Again its not what I am saying or teaching, its what the Word of God states, so either you can align and accept what Gods Word teaches or be in opposition to it. I am not going against His Word and I am not going to lie to these people and tell them they are Spiritually Alive when the Word of God states that they are dead, and the only hope they or I have/had was to believe in Christ and be made Spiritually Alive...

There are fake serpents within every religion, but the majority are in the Right.
I am not sure if you mean the right as in they are correct and wholesome overall, or if you mean on the Political Spectrum. So are you saying that there are fake serpents in every religion but overall the majority are good, or are you saying there are fake serpents in every religion but the majority of the fake serpents are on the Right Wing Politically?

The fact is, there is only one correct Faith and that is in Christ, everything apart from Christ, that stands against it is a lie and wicked period. There is no such thing as "Good People" we all fall short of the Glory of God, all of our supposed Righteousness and "Good Works" are filthy rags before the Holy God, and everyones heart is utterly wicked and evil. The Nature of Man is Evil and Disobedient, this is Scripture, and the ONLY hope any of us have is to Repent and place all of our Faith in Christ and His Work on the Cross, Death and Resurrection and then we will be Born Again and have our wicked hearts transformed to hearts of Flesh, we will have the Holy Spirit take up residence inside of us and we will be sealed unto the day of Redemption. Everything apart from that, which is the Gospel, is a lie from Hell. Anyone who tells you anything other than that is a liar period...

It's your personal faith speaking in a thread where it really isn't the topic.
How is my personal faith aka the method of understanding the World not relevant to the Topic? Whatever Topic I enter into my personal faith is going to play a part in it, I mean look at you, you are trying to speak to me about things in light of your personal faith. That is how things work, I tell you what I believe you tell me what you believe and we make cases to support our points and beliefs, counter others points when we disagree and then put it out in the ether for others to read and decide which argument they believe is most correct...

You should be out condemning the perverts in hollywood or wall street, the true rapists and scam artists instead of intelligent, family men and women.
I am not condemning anyone, I am preaching the Gospel plain and simple. I am reiterating what the Word of God states, if you or other dont like it, then take it up with God, the author of His Word. Perverts are everywhere, Rapists are everywhere and if this was a Thread speaking on them specifically I would condemn them, but guess what, not until you mentioned it has it been brought up. So I have stuck to the Topics that have been mentioned in this Thread and have given my views and Scripture where needed to support those views. Who is feeling condemned by me? If they are then guess what that is man? It is called CONVICTION and its a good thing.

See if you say something that I know is untrue then I am not going to feel condemned at all, I wont care what you say and it wont bother me, such as if a Muslim tells me the Truth of his Religion that because I reject Muhammad then I am going to Hell, well IDC I know its not True. However if someone says something that cuts me because its True, then that is called Conviction and I am thankful for Conviction. That is when God is dealing with my heart to cause to Repent or accept something He wants me to, so that I can get closer to Him in my walk.

Here is what I have to say, if when I preach the Gospel on here and you or someone else feels something stirring in their Soul, even if it starts out as anger, then they need to honestly dwell on what and why they feel that way because there is a good chance that you are under Conviction and that God is dealing with your heart.

I don't know, I read some of the posts and there is overwhelming tone of ignorance and false judgement. On a Saturday afternoon Douglas Summers is trolling a thread dedicated to the Holy Quran (Quran, not Koran, which is the respectful way to name it by the way). No one calls that out? That was just foul. It's not befitting of followers of God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. The character of a few of the Christians here does not show the blessed qualities of love and wisdom, etc that being born again as disciples of Christ leads to. GOD IS LOVE!
I dont have any idea what you are talking about as I havent read that thread nor what he posted. What I do know is that plenty of people hate when their Sins and their False Religion is called out and the Gospel is shined upon them in Truth and they consider it hateful and disrespectful when it is anything but that...

God is Love and the fact is not telling those who are Lost and heading to Hell that they are going there isnt Love, that is Hate period. Telling them about their position before God apart from Christ which is Lost, Condemned and under the Wrath of God, and explaining to them that God loves them so much that He came to Earth as a Man named Jesus Christ and took all their Sins upon Himself and took the Wrath of God on the Cross so that they can be Forgiven and seen as Righteous in Gods eye, and then on the 3rd Day Resurrected overcoming Death and Hell for them and all they have to do is cry out to God for Forgiveness and believe in Faith on Christ and Christ Alone and they will be saved, THAT is Love. Anything apart from telling them this, is hate period.

People dont like to hear this tho and say when the Gospel goes out, that the person preaching it is hateful or the Gospel is hateful. If you want to really show these people you love them, preach to them Christ Crucified, everything else pales in comparison...
 

Wigi

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Messages
891
It was a protestant theocracy, and protestants were not only interpreting the scriptures, they were also writing and enacting the laws which governed their civil community. Those laws apparently included laws against heresy and/or blasphemy.
At that time Nation and religion was one single thing because the goal was to keep a nation under one faith.
Last century, those who refused to fight during the war were considered as traitors and were executed. Apostasy was equal to treason that's it.

But Jesus said He would forgive blasphemy so it means executing people for blasphemy is a 'theocratic' measure not a divine one.
In other words, the trial wasn't scripture based.

Once again:
"for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God."
James 1:20

I, on the other hand, do believe in a theocracy but only to the extent that I believe one was in place at John Calvin's Geneva. That it was capable of errors in judgement, I don't dispute.
I'm not for a man made theocracy because it produce fake believers who accuse true believers of apostasy. History proved it time and time again.

they were protestant Christians who were armed, and they made use of those arms.
It could be understandable if their life was at stake.
It's not evil for someone to defend his loved ones, it's courage.

I would say that war is not metaphysics, good against evil, but is simply politics by other means. That is ruthless, amoral, and seems to express the m.o. of the power elite
I think the exact opposite :
All wars are spiritual by essence. This spiritual component is what really matters for the outcome of a battle and I think there's a reason why our elites are well versed into occultism.

Without the wars of religion, we wouldn't have freedom of thought nor a Bible today because the RCC suppressed the right of people to own personal Bible.

World War 2 was a battle that has allowed this spiritual entity that Jesus called mamon (money) to take control of our minds through capitalism.

When our elites fabricates extremist groups like ISIS who perpetrate terrorist attacks, they know that it will trouble our soul so people will be more incline to reject God and accept the Antichrist when he comes.

Without this spiritual side , we can't understand why wars occured and still happens.

Ps: You're welcome, it's always a pleasure to help.
 

Serveto

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World War 2 was a battle that has allowed this spiritual entity that Jesus called mamon (money) to take control of our minds through capitalism.
I don't read all of the threads on this site, not by a long shot, but if and when the opportunity arises for you to discuss this in further detail, please tag me using the "@" so that I will be notified in the Alerts. I would like to hear your perspective.
When our elites fabricates extremist groups like ISIS who perpetrate terrorist attacks ...
Well said!
 
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JoChris

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Mar 15, 2017
Messages
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^^^ Stunning. I'm in shock that a group like that could even exist, I've seriously never seen something that bizarre.

I like the guy who said he'd look aj miller right in the eyes...and rip his throat out! Haha

I noticed the whole emotion, soulmate, sexuality theme which appeals more to women. The few men there crying seem straight up schizophrenic. One strange part was in the one-on-one interview AJ couldn't stop smiling, giggling. He's helping destroy marriages and gets a big laugh out of it all. May God destroy that sick bastard.
It is quite a horror show. All the people appear like they have lost all reasoning and self-control. :(
 
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