Should genesis be taken literally?

elsbet

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That is fascinating...I will torture google all night now...
It really is.
I have heard this before, but it never occurred to me that they may not be angels.
I will send you links when I get home.
 

TokiEl

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There are several classes of heavenly beings like seraphim cherub throne etc etc and they are created by God and so are correctly called sons of God. Also a lot of human beings will be glorified with an angelic body and be called an adopted son of God.

These heavenly beings or angels are also called gods.

Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God in the literal sense that God is the Father of His earthly body.
 
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No and it was never meant to be interpreted literally.

Literalism is a relatively new idea, and it’s a disaster. First you have to completely ignore scientific and anthropological evidence, ignore numerous contradictions (as early as in the first two chapters) if you take it literally and play logical gymnastics to explain them away.

Literalists are so insecure and so weak of faith that if parts of it are not literally true than they believe it makes all of it not true, so it all has to be 100% true!

And here’s the thing, literalists practice idolotary because what they really worship is the Bible!

Look if you take the OT literally, you have to believe in flat earth and that the Sun revolves around the earth.

Nonetheless the Earth does move :)
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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No and it was never meant to be interpreted literally.

Literalism is a relatively new idea, and it’s a disaster. First you have to completely ignore scientific and anthropological evidence, ignore numerous contradictions (as early as in the first two chapters) if you take it literally and play logical gymnastics to explain them away.

Literalists are so insecure and so weak of faith that if parts of it are not literally true than they believe it makes all of it not true, so it all has to be 100% true!

And here’s the thing, literalists practice idolotary because what they really worship is the Bible!

Look if you take the OT literally, you have to believe in flat earth and that the Sun revolves around the earth.

Nonetheless the Earth does move :)
I think that we serve a living Lord who also happens to be described as "The Word". I also believe that he values our intelligence, being the creator of that attribute.

For this reason, I believe that if a person is truly born again, they are in relationship to the Author. As with any book discussion, you always get the inside scoop on a story when you sit down with the writer and understand the heart behind the writing.

Through the guidence of the Holy Spirit, we are in a very privileged position when it comes to understanding what is literal and what is picture language. The conversation we have with Him will be far more rewarding than anything the esteemed members of this forum could offer you ;-)

I love these words from Hebrews 12

1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the AUTHOR and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
 
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TokiEl

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Through the guidence of the Holy Spirit, we are in a very privileged position when it comes to understanding what is literal and what is picture language.
So if we disagree on something Scriptural seeing we both believe in Jesus Christ and study the Bible... whose Holy spirit is right ?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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So if we disagree on something Scriptural seeing we both believe in Jesus Christ and study the Bible... whose Holy spirit is right ?
John 16

12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

I picture a complete understanding of God like a mountain we are all approaching from various directions. When we step onto God's word, we set foot on the mountain, but it is BIG and unfortunately we don't get an instant download all at once! That's why we need a guide.

If you stray from the path you can get lost, but if you do, many a traveller has called out to the guide and found their way back.

We also need, as fellow travellers to show grace and wisdom to one another. I'm not arguing for liberalism (leaving the mountain and pretending you are still on it) but for compassion and understanding for one another.

Perhaps the fresh steam of 1 Corinthians 13 is one of the most important landmarks to locate on the journey.
 
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TokiEl

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John 16

12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

I picture a complete understanding of God like a mountain we are all approaching from various directions. When we stem onto God's word, we set foot on the mountain, but it is BIG and unfortunately we don't get an instant download all at once! That's why we need a guide.

If you stray from the path you can get lost, but if you do, many a traveller has called out to the guide and found their way back.

We also need, as fellow travellers to show grace and wisdom to one another. I'm not arguing for liberalism (leaving the mountain and pretending you are still on it) but for compassion and understanding for one another.

Perhaps the fresh steam of 1 Corinthians 13 is one of the most important landmarks to locate on the journey.
Yes i just thought the question interesting... when two who obviously love the Lord and study to show themselves approved disagree on something Scriptural... whose Holy spirit is right and whose Holy spirit is wrong lol.

We see through a glass darkly and nobody got the full picture.

But we try our best and even the two greats Peter and Paul had disagreements.
 

Todd

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So if we disagree on something Scriptural seeing we both believe in Jesus Christ and study the Bible... whose Holy spirit is right ?
Likely neither....
The longer I have been a Christian, the more I have expected that no one really knows what the Bible really says. It's all just theories.
As I have allowed my faith and the Spirit of God to change me, the more I see how alot of those theories don't really mesh well with the Character of the God I know and love. Bottom line is that so much of the theology that Christians argue about has little bearing on growing stronger in faith and character and becoming more "Christ like"

Eschatology is a great example. I've studied and understood the arguments of every single eschatology school of thought I could find. (pre/post/mid trib rapture, dispensationalism, preterism, historism, idealism pre/post/a-millenialism). While in the midst of studying the propenents for all them, you can easily get sucked into believing any of them. Yet, every system of eschatology I have studied has left me disappointed and filled with questions and seeming contradictions with scripture itself. Yet how does the school of eschatology I subscribe to actually effect my growth in character, my trust in God or my love towards others?

There are some theology systems that I believe can hinder growth and faith and so I choose not to embrace them, if not downright reject. But many I just try to learn from them what can actually be applied to my spriritual growth and character. For the most part we don't grow closer to God because of our doctrine or theology. Likewise our salvation and ability to walk in the the fruit of the Spirit is not generally dependent on our doctrine or theology, but in our willingness to die to selfishness and trust the spirit of God to lead us.

There is one orthodox doctrine that I have fully renounced and rejected though and that is the doctrine of eternal torment. Out of all the doctrines I have studied and questioned, I would say this is the one that had the most pronounced negative effect on my faith. Likewise embracing Univerisal Reconciliation has had the most positive effect on my faith.
 
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TokiEl

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There is one orthodox doctrine that I have fully renounced and rejected though and that is the doctrine of eternal torment. Out of all the doctrines I have studied and questioned, I would say this is the one that had the most pronounced negative effect on my faith. Likewise embracing Univerisal Reconciliation has had the most postive effect on my faith.
I don't subscribe to eternal torment either... but i believe there will be a deconstruction of souls in the lake of fire at the second death. Therefore no universal reconciliation is needed... as there is nobody to reconcile with since they cease to exist.

Else i agree that a Christian life is about much more than just studying the Scriptures.
 

cfowen

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Absolutely, it must be taken literally, unless you were there and know differently. Even then, we couldn't trustwhat you say. The only thing in the Bible not to be taken literally are the 8000+ Figures of Speech and the parables, like the Rich Man and Lazarus. Anyone that doesn't take any other part of the Bible literally, is not a Bible Believer. "If you don't believe Moses and the prophets, you won't believe Christ rose from the dead."
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Hey, if you feel the need to live in a delusion by believing in Young Earth Creation, then be my guest.
As Treebeard said in Lord of the Rings "Do not be hasty..."

I think it does not harm to examine the best evidence from both camps prior to coming to premature conclusions.

torntreebeard.jpg
 
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As Treebeard said in Lord of the Rings "Do not be hasty..."

I think it does not harm to examine the best evidence from both camps prior to coming to premature conclusions.

View attachment 16667
With all due respect, young Earth creation can be disproved with 5 minutes of basic research. It’s objective truth that the creation story ( and a myriad of other things, like flat earth or geocentrism) are not literal truths.

This does not cause a conflict with belief in God unless you insist on a literal interpretation. This insistence by the way, is a detriment to Christianity. No serious minded person would consider religion when it’s leaders defy reality and objective truths.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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With all due respect, young Earth creation can be disproved with 5 minutes of basic research. It’s objective truth that the creation story ( and a myriad of other things, like flat earth or geocentrism) are not literal truths.

This does not cause a conflict with belief in God unless you insist on a literal interpretation. This insistence by the way, is a detriment to Christianity. No serious minded person would consider religion when it’s leaders defy reality and objective truths.
You may find greater diversity in the beliefs of serious scientists than you expect.

 
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